Why do you think Jagex made 99s Require so Much EXP?

[Sylpheed]

WoW is the best MMO ever and I am so biased towards it that I need to bash Runescape on a Runescape fansite to make myself look cool.

 

Fix'd

 

Why bother to post here? Whether you believe it or not, EVERY MMO in existence has a form of grinding in it, its the fundamental reason why MMO's last as long as they do.

[Ginger_Warrior]

I like how you countered what he actually said, and didn't go for the, "Well you're a WoW fanboy so stfu" line. I mean at least we understand why you disagree with him now and, yeah, your logic is infallible.

 

Can't argue against the [cabbage] you just posted there.

[SixFootOne]

 

That's not really the same issue. The vast majority of MMORPG gamers are male, under 24, childless and on low-income. The same is exactly true for your average Xbox 360 gamer (though I concede the Wii appeals to a different market).

 

 

Stop making up statistics. Use google before you spread absolute lies.

 

"It is easy to dismiss video games as pointless activities that only teenagers indulge in. The truth is that the average age of MMORPG players is around 26. In fact, only 25% of MMORPG players are teenagers. About 50% of MMORPG players work full-time. About 36% of players are married, and 22% have children. So the MMORPG demographic is fairly diverse, including high-school students, college students, early professionals, middle-aged home-makers, as well as retirees. In other words, MMORPGs do not only appeal to a youth subculture."

 

 

Stereotype 1: “Almost all MMO players are male.” (Gender)

"Actually, this stereotype is somewhat accurate. Most players are male. However, the percentage of male players is not as overwhelming as many people believe. Although the percentage of male players may have been greater in the past, currently only 60% of MMO players are male (BBC) and this percentage continues to shrink as more and more females are starting to play MMOs."

 

Stereotype 5: “Most people who play MMOs are unemployed.” (Occupational Status)

 

"This is another incorrect stereotype. Everyone seems to be aware that MMOs cost a lot of money to play, yet it never occurred to them that most people would need a job to fund this play. Over 50% of MMO players work full-time. Another 12% are working part-time and/or attending school part-time. 22% are full time students, 3% are home-makers, 1% are retired, and only 10% are unemployed. There is not a significant gender difference among the unemployed, proving that it is untrue that mainly males are unemployed."

 

http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/gateway_demographics.html

 

http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/000550.php

 

http://themetricsystem.rjmetrics.com/2009/06/24/who-plays-mmos-an-analysis-of-mmorpg-player-demographics-and-mmorpg-player-stereotypes

 

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=6582

 

 

 

Also the online demographic for console games is 25 - 44

 

http://news.mmosite.com/content/2010-04-21/interesting_statistics_of_online_game_market.shtml

[Sylpheed]

I like how you countered what he actually said, and didn't go for the, "Well you're a WoW fanboy so stfu" line. I mean at least we understand why you disagree with him now and, yeah, your logic is infallible.

 

Can't argue against the [cabbage] you just posted there.

 

Nice sarcasm there, you know that's the lowest form of wit right?

 

Why should I counter anything he said? All he does is post on threads like these with comments such as "how cute you guys defend Rs" or "It's funny to see the little kids defend Rs". All he does is troll to the extent that he starts praising WoW as the best MMO in the universe on a forum he knows will get a flammatory response.

 

Also, next time you have a problem with my post PM me instead of randomly attacking me in a thread.

 

Kthxbai.

[Bladewing]

Lol...I like how the op is willing to defend his arguement even though everyone's against him. It's like this post is the titanic, and while all of us are running to the lifeboats, the captain/op is at the top screaming 'jagex needs to remove icebergs before I quit this lousy job. Ah, f''k it, time for 3 posts full of grammar errors'

i found the analogy really amusing

[iiLy]

13m is too much? lol, you're gonna have a fit when more stat caps start getting moved up to 120 from 99.

Now thats Jumping the shark. :-D

 

No that's never going to happen, that's just giving every player with a 99 a huge middle finger. Not to mention the obvious effects on the economy as raw materials would skyrocket, rares, weapons and monster drops would plummet. Also, a lot more high level content would have to be created in every skill which would completely change how RS worked.

 

More boss monsters to compensate for the fact that maxed out people with combat levels of 120 could probably solo or duo nex at that point.

 

More quests to compensate, again for the new high leveled people.

 

New training grounds for people that are 99+

 

New trees, ores, fish, foods, herbs etc.

 

what you are talking about is RS3 which will never happen because of stellar dawn, but It doesn't hurt to dream I guess.

[who8mairice]

Hundreds of thousands of poeple have 99s, many have multiple. For some numbers: http://runescape.wik.../wiki/99_skills

 

Of course they want to make such a massive time requirement.... Then people play longer, pay longer, and jagex gets more money...

 

No [cabbage] mate, i know how many people have 99s. At what point did I amke out I didn't.

 

Yeah but they don't make there money on how many hours they play a month, unless f2p, they make it just on people playing it enough to wanna buy membership. For me that's like 10 hours min. I dunno I think maybe people wouldn't go for as many 99s if there was a lower exp requirement, possbily using different ways to train? I dunno..

 

but is it not mad thatthey originally started with that much exp to get 99??

 

Also i think its irresponsible to make a game where that much time needs to be put in..

Ok, there was no need to be rude. All you sound like is an average noob who wishes he didn't have to work as hard as he does for a 99. Get the hell over it and don't play the game if you find it not fun.

 

 

nah im an average person that doesnt want to spend hours upon hours getting 99. To be fair ive already got 5. I'm talking more about how detremental the ammount of tiem required is to people as well. Im not complaining I can't get a 99, it's not hard, it's just a waste of life -.-

 

PLus I am actually going to quit the game, but im pretty addicted to it. Thats one reason im getting pissed off about the way the game is set up, like I already said I think its incredibly irresponsible to have a game where the max level takes that many hours. Even Chinning it might well take 130 hours to get 99 range. Obviously it's my fault for having an addictive personality, but Jagex dont help by creating a platform set the way RuneScape is for me to get addicted to.

 

 

Then mmo type games arent for you really. may i suggest an fps or an rpg? If you have a highly addictive personality it was a horrid decision to try an mmo to begin with. Don't try and pass any blame off on jagex for choosing to do something you knew you could get addictied to. Man up.

 

 

-poope

[detroit187]

i did read the first post but not the rest because im lazy to read it all.

 

 

But lets just say maybe one day that they will make lvls higher then 99. they already have a skill that you need xp to lvl 120 which needs 104,273,166 exp to get to it. runescape can grow bigger if they want to.

[amitoz]

7m for a 99? That's too hilarious, remind me to add it to the 'noobs say the funniest things' section. Seriously though, the caps are fine. 13m xp gives people a challenge, especially since the last 7-8 levels are literally 7m xp in themselves.

Agreed.

[iiLy]

i did read the first post but not the rest because im lazy to read it all.

 

 

But lets just say maybe one day that they will make lvls higher then 99. they already have a skill that you need xp to lvl 120 which needs 104,273,166 exp to get to it. runescape can grow bigger if they want to.

 

No

 

and before you make an argument back go and look at my previous post on this thread regarding the possibility of skills (other then dung) going above 99.

 

Dung isn't included because dung has no bearing in the rest of rs except for the weapon unlocks that you get at level 80.

[Guest jrhairychest]

 

That's not really the same issue. The vast majority of MMORPG gamers are male, under 24, childless and on low-income. The same is exactly true for your average Xbox 360 gamer (though I concede the Wii appeals to a different market).

 

 

Stop making up statistics. Use google before you spread absolute lies.

 

While I have no problem with using valid stats to back up claims the links you've provided are either years old, based on a small data set from 1 MMORPG or the data can not be found. It's no help accusing other posters of spreading lies when all you're doing is sitting there googling things until you come up with things that look like it will back up your theory. Get some up to date facts based on a number of valid sources that takes data from a larger pool and then you'll be in a position to counter the point.

[SixFootOne]

 

That's not really the same issue. The vast majority of MMORPG gamers are male, under 24, childless and on low-income. The same is exactly true for your average Xbox 360 gamer (though I concede the Wii appeals to a different market).

 

 

Stop making up statistics. Use google before you spread absolute lies.

 

While I have no problem with using valid stats to back up claims the links you've provided are either years old, based on a small data set from 1 MMORPG or the data can not be found. It's no help accusing other posters of spreading lies when all you're doing is sitting there googling things until you come up with things that look like it will back up your theory. Get some up to date facts based on a number of valid sources that takes data from a larger pool and then you'll be in a position to counter the point.

 

2 of them are older, but the metric system one is from 09. In 2 years it's unlikely it would drastically change. That one also uses 3 different sources for it's information (although one an older one anyway). What he posted was drastically off as he based it all off personal opinion, i on the other hand had multiple credable sourcese that have evidence to suggest otherwise(including the bbc and the daedalus project). Not that i am stating it's all 100% accurate, what he posted is considered false across the industry. Also i didn't' just come up with this "theory", it's what is currently accepted in the industry, based off of some statistics such as these. So i really don't see how you have a problem with any of this.

 

Here are some more generalized, but up to date and reliable statistics. Are the ESRB's and ESA's 2010 statistics good enough for you :roll: ?

 

http://www.theesa.com/facts/gameplayer.asp

 

http://www.esrb.org/about/video-game-industry-statistics.jsp

 

 

tl;dr He based his it off of nothing, i had statistics to say otherwise(and i don't know why you can't accept them)

[Wkw]

The forumla states that 1-99 requires around 13m xp

120 dungeoneering requires 104m xp

 

Slightly over 200M, the cap, would give you 126

 

In six levels, you need nearly 100m more xp.

[Albel]

The xp required for 99 is just fine. The reason it's so high is too keep playing to get the skill to 99. More time on the game means more money.

[Guest jrhairychest]

2 of them are older, but the metric system one is from 09. In 2 years it's unlikely it would drastically change. That one also uses 3 different sources for it's information (although one an older one anyway). What he posted was drastically off as he based it all off personal opinion, i on the other hand had multiple credable sourcese that have evidence to suggest otherwise(including the bbc and the daedalus project). Not that i am stating it's all 100% accurate, what he posted is considered false across the industry. Also i didn't' just come up with this "theory", it's what is currently accepted in the industry, based off of some statistics such as these. So i really don't see how you have a problem with any of this.

 

Here are some more generalized, but up to date and reliable statistics. Are the ESRB's and ESA's 2010 statistics good enough for you :roll: ?

 

http://www.theesa.com/facts/gameplayer.asp

 

http://www.esrb.org/about/video-game-industry-statistics.jsp

 

 

tl;dr He based his it off of nothing, i had statistics to say otherwise(and i don't know why you can't accept them)

 

In response to your first part I would answer you were wrong. The reason I didn't accept them is called years of experience. When someone puts any statistics in front of me I check it first rather than blithely accepting the results. It’s got be up to date, fair and from a significant pool of data, much more than has been done in any of those to get some degree of accuracy.

 

You've now done some research which is much more credible, particularly ESA. However they've only done 1200 households within the data set. Do you think thats an accurate represenation of the US, and does that cover globally? I don't think so. But at least you've took a little more thought over the way you researched it. Good for you you've learned something. =D>

 

Edit - As an additional point, I wonder how many <=24 year old males bother to take part in surveys. I know I wouldn't bother and I'm not in that age bracket. Some food for thought about just how accurate these surveys can be :wink:

[Freakyhair]

7m for a 99? That's too hilarious, remind me to add it to the 'noobs say the funniest things' section. Seriously though, the caps are fine. 13m xp gives people a challenge, especially since the last 7-8 levels are literally 7m xp in themselves.

Agreed.

 

 

@amitoz I dont get why its ridiculous?

 

I think that if 7m had been the cap the whole time that RuneScape would be a very different game, it would still be seen as just as much of a challenge (IMO) to get 99 because the playing hours would change. Id think, maybe not though to be fair. But if the premade goal is 13m exp, or (eg mining) around 500000 clicks, it automatically makes players set standards higher.

 

Dunno maybe Im wrong, but dont straight up call me a noob for suggesting something that might take 70 hrs ( very liberal mining estimate) instead of 130 hours.. I think that's a very sensible suggestion..

[highlanders]

I think originally 99s were meant to be something near impossible that only the most devoted players would ever get. Not something that you would aim for, just something that would happen because you need a cap at some point. In RSC most people including myself never saw themselves getting a 99, ever, the exp rates were far too low. Not to mention people didn't really want 99s, if you had one people would be impressed but say it was a waste of time. People wanted rares, that's about it.

 

But when they added skill capes then the whole attitude changed. Now 99s didn't just happen because you played a lot, now people aimed for them. Jagex probably didn't really foresee that people would start playing a lot more just to get the capes, and that the market would be forever screwed up. Or maybe they're geniuses and they knew from the get go it would make people spend a lot more time, and thus they'd get more money.

[Freakyhair]

I think originally 99s were meant to be something near impossible that only the most devoted players would ever get. Not something that you would aim for, just something that would happen because you need a cap at some point. In RSC most people including myself never saw themselves getting a 99, ever, the exp rates were far too low. Not to mention people didn't really want 99s, if you had one people would be impressed but say it was a waste of time. People wanted rares, that's about it.

 

But when they added skill capes then the whole attitude changed. Now 99s didn't just happen because you played a lot, now people aimed for them. Jagex probably didn't really foresee that people would start playing a lot more just to get the capes, and that the market would be forever screwed up. Or maybe they're geniuses and they knew from the get go it would make people spend a lot more time, and thus they'd get more money.

 

 

I doubt it from what I've heard about Andrew Gower, but yeah what you say is pretty true. I guess RuneScape wouldn't exist anymore if theyd made 99 the max exp you could achieve.

[Bladewing]

7m for a 99? That's too hilarious, remind me to add it to the 'noobs say the funniest things' section. Seriously though, the caps are fine. 13m xp gives people a challenge, especially since the last 7-8 levels are literally 7m xp in themselves.

Agreed.

 

 

@amitoz I dont get why its ridiculous?

 

I think that if 7m had been the cap the whole time that RuneScape would be a very different game, it would still be seen as just as much of a challenge (IMO) to get 99 because the playing hours would change. Id think, maybe not though to be fair. But if the premade goal is 13m exp, or (eg mining) around 500000 clicks, it automatically makes players set standards higher.

 

Dunno maybe Im wrong, but dont straight up call me a noob for suggesting something that might take 70 hrs ( very liberal mining estimate) instead of 130 hours.. I think that's a very sensible suggestion..

everyone who is willing to work harder than you is a nerd

 

[Freakyhair]

7m for a 99? That's too hilarious, remind me to add it to the 'noobs say the funniest things' section. Seriously though, the caps are fine. 13m xp gives people a challenge, especially since the last 7-8 levels are literally 7m xp in themselves.

Agreed.

 

 

@amitoz I dont get why its ridiculous?

 

I think that if 7m had been the cap the whole time that RuneScape would be a very different game, it would still be seen as just as much of a challenge (IMO) to get 99 because the playing hours would change. Id think, maybe not though to be fair. But if the premade goal is 13m exp, or (eg mining) around 500000 clicks, it automatically makes players set standards higher.

 

Dunno maybe Im wrong, but dont straight up call me a noob for suggesting something that might take 70 hrs ( very liberal mining estimate) instead of 130 hours.. I think that's a very sensible suggestion..

everyone who is willing to work harder than you is a nerd

 

 

no tbf i removed that, but teeet (wtf i cant say [bleep]?) for tat man, anyone that doesnt want to get 13m exp is a noob?

 

but i definitely don't consider it working harder, working for longer. in general, runescape isn't hard, simply time consuming.

[Bladewing]

everyone who wants to achieve the end level (99) but doesn't want to get the 13m exp is lazy. instead of adapting to everyone else in the game, he expects everyone else to adapt to him.

 

i have no problem with people who don't want to get the 13m xp and then they just go about their business not getting 13m xp. i have a problem with people who don't want to get the 13m xp and then demand that the game be made easier to suit their whims.

 

if you want maxing out to be done in weeks, you are playing the wrong game.

[JustAGamer]

instead of adapting to everyone else in the game, he expects everyone else to adapt to him.

 

We are the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.

 

 

But yes, runescape is typically time-consuming rather than hard. The problem is, (taking combat for example) the things that are genuinely "hard" have a bad habit of killing you in one or two hits. Jagex has tried to fix this to some extent with their quest-puzzles (Ele workshop 3 anyone?), and I applaud that. However, the game still lacks some degree of challenge.

[Freakyhair]

everyone who wants to achieve the end level (99) but doesn't want to get the 13m exp is lazy. instead of adapting to everyone else in the game, he expects everyone else to adapt to him.

 

i have no problem with people who don't want to get the 13m xp and then they just go about their business not getting 13m xp. i have a problem with people who don't want to get the 13m xp and then demand that the game be made easier to suit their whims.

 

if you want maxing out to be done in weeks, you are playing the wrong game.

 

not true, not sitting down and clicking for 40 hours isn't lazy, if anything playing RuneScape alot makes you lazy. I also don't expect Jagex to change it for me, I was just wondering why they originally made the max 13m, foresight or whatever. stop trolling lol..

 

actually tbf i did say i think itd be good for them to lower the levels.

 

And i personally dont ever think Runescape will be truly challenging simply due to the simplistic nature of combat. tbf ive never played any other mmos but ive seen leeroy jenkins and some other wow videos and it just seems that the entire combat method requires more skill. might well be wrong though..

 

and yeah it is challenging to a degree, merchanting takes a fair level of foresight or intelligence, as well as pking. but to the average joe runescaper that doesn't merch very much or pk the game is not very challenging i think.

 

oh yeah and also to all the replies to me comparing rs to crack, from my expreience yeah ive been friends with people were this is true. altho yeah its probally not as bad as crack lol. but still to claim an mmo is not addictive is just silly, i say im addicted but i only log in for 30-hr a day, sometimes playing 6 in a row every now and again. but even doing that affects my real life, so for people who think playing 6 hours weekdays, 10 on weekends is fine, your lying to urself. and to think that people dont play that much is again a bit silly, unless the people i have known on runescape have been a very small section.

[Bladewing]

so you are saying, to use your example, fishing for 70 hours takes less effort than fishing for 130 hours? or did i misunderstand you?

[Freakyhair]

so you are saying, to use your example, fishing for 70 hours takes less effort than fishing for 130 hours? or did i misunderstand you?

 

no im talking about real life, the real life impication of fishing for 60 hours is lazy. id say. i dunno, fair enough its how some people relax.

 

but yeah, i think im less lazy for wishing the caps were lower since id play less time playing runescape for want i wanted to achieve in it, hence more time doing things in real life. tbf most peopled probs jus watch tv with those hours..