Tip.It Times - 6th March 2011

[Bladewing]

about 700m right now

[blakdragon39]

In regards to the first article, that sounds like a viable solution to me.. Something where people can really play whatever part of the game they want, without all the grinding and stuff they don't want from the real game. I'd definitely stick with the real game though. :thumbsup: However it sounds like a *lot* of work.. and I don't get the impression that Jagex would do something that drastic. Maybe we could entice them with the extra money they'd make from (possibly) more members signing up for the "fun" content, and the extra money from selling gold and accounts. :P Which brings me to the second article..

 

I had no idea that the Gower's no longer had a connection with the game.. do they have any connection's left with Jagex at all?? If they don't, why not? Have they lost the love for this great game they created in their dorm room? :( Makes me sad.. and definitely provides a reason as to why Jagex seems to be all about the money recently. I really hope the latest board of directors (or whatever you call the people who run this game) don't run this game into the ground. It's a lot of fun. :) The only good thing about RS dying would be the time I gain back. xD Don't really want it back at this point though!

 

EDIT: Don't know if I've ever made a post this long. :P

[Jonanananas]

In regards to the first article, that sounds like a viable solution to me.. Something where people can really play whatever part of the game they want, without all the grinding and stuff they don't want from the real game. I'd definitely stick with the real game though. :thumbsup: However it sounds like a *lot* of work.. and I don't get the impression that Jagex would do something that drastic. Maybe we could entice them with the extra money they'd make from (possibly) more members signing up for the "fun" content, and the extra money from selling gold and accounts. :P Which brings me to the second article..

 

I had no idea that the Gower's no longer had a connection with the game.. do they have any connection's left with Jagex at all?? If they don't, why not? Have they lost the love for this great game they created in their dorm room? :( Makes me sad.. and definitely provides a reason as to why Jagex seems to be all about the money recently. I really hope the latest board of directors (or whatever you call the people who run this game) don't run this game into the ground. It's a lot of fun. :) The only good thing about RS dying would be the time I gain back. xD Don't really want it back at this point though!

 

EDIT: Don't know if I've ever made a post this long. :P

 

Yes they do still have a connection with Runescape. First of all, the gowers are still shareholders of (I believe) 52% of Jagex, also Paul is a Game Content developer for Runescape and Andrew is lead developer of Runescape, at least on paper. However, it's not quite clear (at least to me) how much exactly he is still doing, and how much of it is decided my Mod Mark, lead designer of Runescape.

 

 

Also, while the Board of directors generally has an influence and could override any decisions made, they usually worry about the business aspect of running a company and leave the game itself to the lead developer/designer. So this doesn't mean that foreign investors control everything about Runescape now...but it definitely has an influence, and probably a not too small one.

[Rune_Server]

In my opinion if JaGex are truely serious about stopping the ever emmerging marco problem they need to take REAL steps against the people developing the bots.

 

Now im not a lawyer so i cant exactly comment of this, but if JaGex want to stop botting they need to really take steps against the developers, not the users. The only way they can really do this is through legal action. By taking out legal action against the developers it would send out the message to most other bot owners that JaGex are serious about this problem. Right now the only steps JaGex are taking against botters are in game punishments such as resetting skills (lol) and occasionally banning accounts and quite frankly its no-where near enough.

 

What they need to understand is that the developers are developing these bots for money, whilst the actual botters are the ones botting on the server. Banning accounts isn't going to stop the development of bots, its just going to lead to the user making a new account once his old "botting account" is banned.

 

For the people suggesting small trivial changes to be made daily/weekly. Although this would probably have an effect for the first week or two of this being around, after that initial period it would just become an incovienience to other players. It would be extremly easy for the developers of these scripts to just program the bot so if it see's something different that would not usually be there, to turn around walk back to the bank it came from and log out.

[Jonanananas]

In my opinion if JaGex are truely serious about stopping the ever emmerging marco problem they need to take REAL steps against the people developing the bots.

 

Now im not a lawyer so i cant exactly comment of this, but if JaGex want to stop botting they need to really take steps against the developers, not the users. The only way they can really do this is through legal action. By taking out legal action against the developers it would send out the message to most other bot owners that JaGex are serious about this problem. Right now the only steps JaGex are taking against botters are in game punishments such as resetting skills (lol) and occasionally banning accounts and quite frankly its no-where near enough.

 

What they need to understand is that the developers are developing these bots for money, whilst the actual botters are the ones botting on the server. Banning accounts isn't going to stop the development of bots, its just going to lead to the user making a new account once his old "botting account" is banned.

 

For the people suggesting small trivial changes to be made daily/weekly. Although this would probably have an effect for the first week or two of this being around, after that initial period it would just become an incovienience to other players. It would be extremly easy for the developers of these scripts to just program the bot so if it see's something different that would not usually be there, to turn around walk back to the bank it came from and log out.

 

Afaik, they already have been taking legal action against bot developers...with few merit. I know that at least one site was closed down but immediately opened again under a slightly different name. It's not very easy to prove that bot developers actually break laws, not just game rules.

 

On the second part of your post...unfortunately true. Actually I have seen a few bots at Aubury's already who logged out once they got near the marker plant/cannon. And however suspicious that might be, it's not enough to prove that it's a bot, not even mentioning that you'd have to get his name first, which will be hard if he logs out.

[Assume Nothing]

Well, if planting marker plants would get rid of a high amount of bots, then why not plant one on every world? Ofcourse, this isn't possible solo, but it could be an effort made on every server.

 

I guess it has to be enough of a problem for it to be worth it though. Hmm

[green9090]

Well, if planting marker plants would get rid of a high amount of bots, then why not plant one on every world? Ofcourse, this isn't possible solo, but it could be an effort made on every server.

 

I guess it has to be enough of a problem for it to be worth it though. Hmm

If it became widespread like that, they'd fix the bots to deal with plants.

[Jonanananas]

Well, if planting marker plants would get rid of a high amount of bots, then why not plant one on every world? Ofcourse, this isn't possible solo, but it could be an effort made on every server.

 

I guess it has to be enough of a problem for it to be worth it though. Hmm

If it became widespread like that, they'd fix the bots to deal with plants.

 

There are already bots who can deal with it...and yes, if it became an official move, bots would adapt within a few weeks at most, probably only days.

[Ts_Stormrage]

^

 

Which brings me all the way back to the point I made in my article... A solution has to come from outside of RS...

[amitoz]

i make 5-8m an hour logging into runescape once every 45 minutes merchanting during class or studying

Not to call you a liar, but how much capital are you flipping with? I haven't been getting anywhere near that, can't get the hang of this newfangled free trade flipping.

 

 

about 700m right now

Seems about right, I make 3-4.5m /day with only 380m cash.

 

F2p, may I add.

[Jonanananas]

Regarding Storm's idea, because I haven't yet got to talk about that myself:

 

I actually think this might be a viable solution, it just depends on how much work will have to go into this.

Yes, botters want to have an advantage over other players, and the private server doesn't offer that, but think about it. We have a random player who thinks about botting. Why does he think about it? He doesn't say to himself "Hey, I want to use this illegal macro program to gain highscore ranks quicker than everyone else, I'm going to download it now and start botting so I can have an advantage over everyone"

It's probably more like "Damn, fishing is so slow...I wanna go PKing but I don't have the money for it....hmm I've heard of this bot that's supposed to be undetectable. I guess I can try it out"

 

Now, you have to think that Jagex will always look a lot more reliable than some dubious RWT company. Which means that, if someone has the choice between the two, chances are high that he'll choose the official way. No risk of getting banned, no risk of getting "hacked" etc. Of course private servers will soon hold no merit for most of these cheaters. But how many of them will actually go back after that?

How many will say "Oh, I realize now that I only had fun botting on the normal servers because I could gain an unfair advantage over others. I'm tired of these private server cheatings, but will go back to normal servers and bot there in order to have fun again" Imo, a pretty low number. Most will probably just quit.

 

 

 

 

But on the other hand, my mind kinda revolts against legalizing botting in any way, and tbh, I'd like a few SERIOUS attempts to stop botting before this would be implemented. What Jagex is doing atm is just a joke.

[Ts_Stormrage]

That was almost exactly my train of thought that lead me to write the article...

 

Jagex' current failing to stop botting means that they are either incompetent, unwilling, or both...

If they are incompetent, then they should try this idea...

If they are unwilling, then botting should not be against the rules...

If they are both, then what's all the fuss about?

[jaklumen]

Second article: Tip.it has balls... I finally see an article that could could be a big kick in the hornet's nest. Although I expect the quiet treatment from Jagex, this will pull even more the opinion of tip.iters that Jagex are desperate for cash and the cynicism will grow. I would like the Gowers to provide a statement regarding Jagex's finances or position on bots, RWT and such. I don't trust anyone else at this point.

 

The Times had an article that DID provoke the wrath of Jagex, even from Andrew Gower himself.

 

It was called "Biased Banning Raises Brows". It was removed from the archives shortly after it was published, with an official explanation here ("An Ethical Dilemma"). Although "Biased Banning Raises Brows" was removed, the text can be found here.

 

I was on Staff when it happened. Yes indeedy, Andrew Gower DID come in and he DID threaten a lawsuit against Tip.It. Lightning tried to assure us that she'd handle everything: for those of you that don't know, she worked with Andrew, along with Gugge and Rab, on another game before Runescape even came about. For a time, all was quiet.

 

But then Jagex released this following article on 17 May 2006: Do not use your RuneScape password on other sites! Note the following text:

It has just been brought to our attention that a large unofficial fansite (NOT our site) has had their password database stolen. And in fact has been leaking usernames+passwords for some time.

 

Rumors spread like wildfire that this was Tip.It, and apparently, Jagex just gave the community a subtle backhand. At least one fansite community jumped on the bandwagon, and w13 of Zybez/Runescape Community even stated that they would never be like Tip.It in this instance.

 

I was curious about the veracity of this claim, so I asked someone that I trusted, that was still an Admin here at the time. This person's name is not important, although I would also suspect that this person would not care at this time about a backlash or a punishment of sorts from this site.

 

Yes, it was true. Passwords had indeed been compromised. Please pardon my lack of digging to find the appropriate news here that urged all users to change their passwords, and to something that was NOT the same as a password on Runescape: I trust that interested persons will find it themselves, or point out that such a policy should be followed anyways.

 

Suffice it to say: why, yes, Tip.It has indeed provoked the wrath of Jagex in the past. If this article was a "kick in the hornet's nest", then we shouldn't be surprised if the community is stung once again.

 

Now, if my reply is edited, or "THE Boss" decides that he must finally take the bother of banning me-- or otherwise discrediting what I have said, I shall laugh. I shall laugh, long and hard. Perhaps binyam will laugh too... I don't know. Who's binyam? Oh yes, he that created the Tip.It Times in the first place. He shall probably have a chuckle or two that the boat is still rocking hard even though Mr. Silverion tired of us years ago.

[Mrhouse]

^ I remember your name from rspp. Hai if your the same guy haven't seen yah in awhile.

 

 

You wont recognize this name

[Jonanananas]

Well tbh...I wouldn't exactly say my article was *that* much of a kick in the hornet's nest. The only information that I didn't find publicized by Jagex in some way were there profits and employments from last year(I don't see how these would be that controversial in any way) and the fact that the gowers and constant have left the directors board...but that has been floating around the forums a bit without even a lock. So I'd say there's no risk with the article at hand ;)

[Ts_Stormrage]

The way RS is being run these days, more and more nest-kicking articles will appear over time...

 

It'll be interesting to see if and/or when the Tip.it staff will actually step in and prevent the publishing of it...

[das]

The Times had an article that DID provoke the wrath of Jagex, even from Andrew Gower himself.

 

It was called "Biased Banning Raises Brows".

It was nothing more than shock writing using accusations to try to get views/readers/users in a time that flat out - Tip.it was Pathetic. The moderation was awful and overbearing to an extent now that makes Tip.it Today look lawless and wild.

 

But then Jagex released this following article on 17 May 2006:

 

As an administrator with access to the archives, No - you're not 100% Correct. The Database in 2004 was compromised by an exploit and the team at the time was too inept to figure out how to run a forum both as far as by providing content and technically. As an Administrator of tip.it - flat out - Tip.it deserved the humiliation they got at the time.

If any site gets compromised - the users deserve to know. The old tip.it's mod's and admin team wasn't user friendly and thats an image i've worked hard for 3 years trying to repair. The fact i'm still working on it 3 YEARS later shows how seriously screwed up it got.

 

 

 

This person's name is not important, although I would also suspect that this person would not care at this time about a backlash or a punishment of sorts from this site.

Tip.it in your era was very cloak and dagger mysterious - The Adminstration today, wouldn't lie about it or cover it up and times have changed.

 

 

 

Suffice it to say: why, yes, Tip.It has indeed provoked the wrath of Jagex in the past. If this article was a "kick in the hornet's nest", then we shouldn't be surprised if the community is stung once again.

 

I don't know if you play runescape now - But Jagex has changed and is alot less likely to give a crap about what was written and published this week vs what was published then.

 

 

Now, if my reply is edited, or "THE Boss" decides that he must finally take the bother of banning me-- or otherwise discrediting what I have said, I shall laugh.

We have better things to do then to censor users or ban people for thier opinions.

 

 

~Das

[tripsis]

We have no problem with people posting or writing about their opinions. Tip.It times articles don't have to be loving Jagex and negative points are fine. The only thing we won't publish is mindless bashing :P

[jasignhagj]

The comments under that article reminded me how awful the spelling and grammar was on tip.it back then.

[Racheya]

I was speaking to Mod Kat in Jagex's Community Services the other day and she said 'good articles' to me. I asked her 'surely they're not to Jagex's taste, though?' and she just replied with something along the lines of 'We don't mind well thought out criticism and genuine feedback'.

 

So everyone going melodrama that Jagex is gonna go postal on us, relax :P

[Jonanananas]

Jagex also undoubtedly has changed. Just compare it - Back then, players were banned for having offensive names, and now not even botters are guaranteed to get a ban. Just that should show that a lot of things are different at Jagex today, and I'd say most are for the positive.

This would need to be taken to a whole other level, with more controversial information and probably also a more biased view in order for Jagex to ask for the removal of an article again.

[Ts_Stormrage]

So this begs the question...

 

What WOULD it take for Jagex to go postal on us these days?

Encouraging people to cancel their subscriptions with a list of reasons that are taken well out of context/proportion... Would that do it?

 

Btw, pleased to see Jagex aproving the articles :D

[Mrhouse]

So this begs the question...

 

What WOULD it take for Jagex to go postal on us these days?

Encouraging people to cancel their subscriptions with a list of reasons that are taken well out of context/proportion... Would that do it?

 

I don't think they would ever freak out about it. You'd lose fansite status (Platinum I think?) and your site would be censored in game (Like Zybez).

[Ts_Stormrage]

Oh I'd consider that going postal on us...

[Mrhouse]

Oh I'd consider that going postal on us...

 

 

Well I was comparing it to Andrew threatening lawsuits lol.