[POLL] Is Dungeoneering a FAILURE?

[Hobgoblinpie]

It's not a skill in the traditional sense of RuneScape.

 

That doesn't mean I'm saying it is bad, but to me it feels more like a minigame (and I consider it as such), and I really dislike minigames.

[Hamtaro]

If dungeoneering was as simple as reading a guide, DGS wouldn't exist. I can see that you're being very defensive and getting riled up (I would be too if I suddenly had a bunch of 100+ dungeoneers proving me wrong!), so I'm going to step out of this conversation now, though not without two parting points:

 

1. You are a complete moron.

2. Lrn2dg.

 

To everyone arguing with studio, you should just quote those two points over and over and over again until it sinks into his/her head. Using reason and logic is clearly a tall order here.

Personal attacks = dung doesn't suck? Oh darn, you win :-(

 

I was considering joining DGS, but I'm assuming that's out the question now anyway. Well, I guess that's a good thing if this is who runs it. I'll stick to casual DG with my semi mentally challenged brother who, to be honest, understands that games are meant to (prepare to be completely shocked) have... fun? Oh my God, I must my out of my mind to suggest such a thing! Games are clearly meant to be work simulators where you have to learn how to do something useless and work with annoying people. God forbid I want to relax in my free time.

Again, perspective. Many people, myself included, find fun in doing 20-30 minute dungeons and reaping the rewards of 160k+ xp/hour from that.

Or when you mess up even slightly, you get kicked after killing the boss. Even in clans where you're meant to learn. That's pure frustration right there. I don't know about you, but I'm not having fun while frustrated.

 

By the transitive property, arguing with Obtaurian is very fun :thumbsup:. I don't even try to make him angry and he rages. It's so cute.

[Michael]

You can't get kicked after the boss is dead, shows how much you know.

[Hamtaro]

"I'm going to step out of this conversation now, though not without two parting points" - Obtaurian

[Dragonlordjl]

If dungeoneering was as simple as reading a guide, DGS wouldn't exist. I can see that you're being very defensive and getting riled up (I would be too if I suddenly had a bunch of 100+ dungeoneers proving me wrong!), so I'm going to step out of this conversation now, though not without two parting points:

 

1. You are a complete moron.

2. Lrn2dg.

 

To everyone arguing with studio, you should just quote those two points over and over and over again until it sinks into his/her head. Using reason and logic is clearly a tall order here.

Personal attacks = dung doesn't suck? Oh darn, you win :-(

 

I was considering joining DGS, but I'm assuming that's out the question now anyway. Well, I guess that's a good thing if this is who runs it. I'll stick to casual DG with my semi mentally challenged brother who, to be honest, understands that games are meant to (prepare to be completely shocked) have... fun? Oh my God, I must my out of my mind to suggest such a thing! Games are clearly meant to be work simulators where you have to learn how to do something useless and work with annoying people. God forbid I want to relax in my free time.

Again, perspective. Many people, myself included, find fun in doing 20-30 minute dungeons and reaping the rewards of 160k+ xp/hour from that.

Or when you mess up even slightly, you get kicked after killing the boss. Even in clans where you're meant to learn. That's pure frustration right there. I don't know about you, but I'm not having fun while frustrated.

 

By the transitive property, arguing with Obtaurian is very fun :thumbsup:. I don't even try to make him angry and he rages. It's so cute.

 

DGS doesn't kick people unless you go out of your way to be a [developmentally delayed]. If you derp and make armor or world-bearers, you'll usually get at least one warning not to do it. I can't really ever remember when we kicked someone in a DG who wasn't a random from 148 who turned out to be an idiot.

 

And yes, as MC pointed out you can't be kicked after the boss is dead.

[Obtaurian]

:lol: He thinks I'm mad.

 

I don't kick people for making little mistakes. I don't kick people for making mistakes at all, actually, and neither does any other DGS keyer. The point of DGS is to teach people to dungeoneer, so it's quite obvious that mistakes will be made (and often). I have yet to kick a DGS clan chat user from any of my teams, though I did come close once.

 

Once again your ignorance gets the better of you.

 

In regards to you using DGS - I could care less how you feel about dungeoneering. As long as you're receptive to instruction and can take initiative during floors, you're welcome to use the clan chat.

 

For example, SirIzenhime and I have very different dungeoneering styles, but he's used the clan chat on occasion and I've found him to be a very capable teammate (and he should stop by more often).

 

EDIT: As we're bringing DGS into this, I'm posting again. Sue me.

[SirIzenhime]

Or when you mess up even slightly, you get kicked after killing the boss. Even in clans where you're meant to learn. That's pure frustration right there. I don't know about you, but I'm not having fun while frustrated.

 

By the transitive property, arguing with Obtaurian is very fun :thumbsup:. I don't even try to make him angry and he rages. It's so cute.

 

That isn't how DGS works...at all...

Unless you're physically TRYING to mess up and go slow, they won't care. They'll point out what you could do to help the dungeon go along faster, but they aren't going to kick you the second you mess up a ferret room, or lure 1 or 2 monsters into another area with them.

 

Also, the fun comment is VERY subjective. Most of the regulars in DGS have about 100 dungoeneering, they don't need to be there anymore, as I'm sure they've gotten all of the rewards that would even slightly benefit them. Wanna know why they're still there? Because they find it fun. It is fun for them to rush through dungeons in 20-30 minutes. They find it a bit of a challenge (sometimes), and even them, they aren't there worrying about it.

 

Believe me, I am not a huge fan of the rushing style, I like taking my time through dungeons just like you, and even I don't mind DGS, it's not as hectic as you may think it would be. Unless your the keyer, you really only have to worry about 2 things.

 

1) Teleporting when told to help with GDs, puzzle rooms, etc.

2) Setting personal gatestones at far away doors, so you can run the occasional key or two.

 

You really shouldn't be bashing a CC before you even try it.

 

(hows the popcorn, I was considering making myself some. I bought a couple boxes the other day because they were on sale :thumbsup: )

[Alistair]

Generally speaking, love it

[Hamtaro]

"Hi, I'm an admin and keyer in DGS. I would absolutely kick you for not dying in a floor." -Obtaurian

"I don't kick people for making little mistakes. I don't kick people for making mistakes at all..." -Obtaurian

 

Right well, this obviously isn't going anywhere with the most arrogant kids I have ever talked to on these forums, so I'll make my own closing remarks (and actually leave) in regards to what we've learned here today. I provided links to definitions for words that users from this thread may or may not know.

 

New Laws of TIF based on this thread:

-Opinions are just myths like gravity; there is only fact.

-There is no fun, there is only efficiency.

-When lacking the ability to comprehend, insult the other person to make yourself feel smart.

-To win an argument, you must contradict yourself three times and attack the other person.

-Don't read a post. Assume you know exactly what the person means based on two random lines you pick out.

-When you don't understand what someone else says because you dropped out of school to play RS all day, call the other person a moron.

-Don't post using proper sentence structure and grammar. Use shorts bullets so that those with ADHD can read as well.

-Butt in on replies to others, because the replier is obviously indirectly referring to you.

-When you say you won't post anymore, you're obviously joking and you should come back to annoy everyone with irrelevant, smug remarks.

-Use shameless plugs to advertise anything you want outside of the advertisement thread.

-Make sure you spam to a high post count so mods ignore any violations of that ^ or blatant flaming.

-If you aren't on TIF 24/7 to reply to a post you made, you are automatically wrong.

-If you are teamed up on by multiple people with arguments like 2+2=5, they are still correct. Always.

-Claim to have the better methods of doing something, but spend all day on TIF instead of RS. Sounds like you're having lots of fun on a GAME.

 

---Ignore this because you're perfect and this doesn't apply to you, obviously.

---Argue against this and pretend you're trying to convince me instead of yourself.

[SirIzenhime]

"Hi, I'm an admin and keyer in DGS. I would absolutely kick you for not dying in a floor." -Obtaurian

"I don't kick people for making little mistakes. I don't kick people for making mistakes at all..." -Obtaurian

 

 

I'm pretty sure that was a typo or misunderstanding :rolleyes:

 

 

New Laws of TIF based on this thread:

-Opinions are just myths like gravity; there is only fact.

:huh:

 

-There is no fun, there is only efficiency.

Subjective. Some people find it fun to find the most efficient way to do things (and to actually do it that way). It is impossible to argue about the fun-ness of something, so when discussing a topic, you cannot include it into an argument other then as a personal preference. That is why you only see (or see a lot of) people arguing over efficiency instead of what they find fun.

 

-When lacking the ability to comprehend, insult the other person to make yourself feel smart.

Well duh, that happens IRL as well :rolleyes:

 

-To win an argument, you must contradict yourself three times and attack the other person.

I've only seen miss-interpretation so far. No contradictions.

I have seen the "attacks", but again...that happens in IRL too (doesn't make it any better obviously, just saying)

 

-Don't read a post. Assume you know exactly what the person means based on two random lines you pick out.

This has not been done in this thread at any time

 

-When you don't understand what someone else says because you dropped out of school to play RS all day, call the other person a moron.

Hypocritical. You call other people out when they 'attack' you, then attack back.

I'm also 99% sure the people posting here are still in school, or have jobs.

 

-Don't post using proper sentence structure and grammar. Use shorts bullets so that those with ADHD can read as well.

That's the way a lot of things work....if you make a power point presentation, you're supposed to use bullet points. People nowadays don't want to sit down a read a story, they want the point.

Also, it's the internet...do you honestly expect everyone to read every word of a 2000 word post?

 

-Butt in on replies to others, because the replier is obviously indirectly referring to you.

It's a forum. If you make a post on a thread, it is ALWAYS fair game to reply to.

 

-When you say you won't post anymore, you're obviously joking and you should come back to annoy everyone with irrelevant, smug remarks.

I've yet to see irrelevant, smug remarks. Obt posted again, "replying" to what you said. You can hardly call it irrelevant when YOU were the one that brought the topic up in the first place

 

-Use shameless plugs to advertise anything you want outside of the advertisement thread.

Duh?

 

-Make sure you spam to a high post count so mods ignore any violations of that ^ or blatant flaming.

If you were to actually go back and look at all of the posts people like Obtuarian, Cheezedude, and Will Holmes have made, they far from spam.

 

-If you aren't on TIF 24/7 to reply to a post you made, you are automatically wrong.

What? Where did you see this?

 

-If you are teamed up on by multiple people with arguments like 2+2=5, they are still correct. Always.

False.

However, when you are teamed up on by multiple people with arguments like This thread, then they are correct. The posters on this thread KNOW what they're talking about.

For instance, on the dying thing. It can be PROVEN that dying on a floor to get your prayer/hp back to make the floor go faster will save you enough time that you'll gain more xp/hr then you would if you were trying to go so slow through a dungeon, so you wouldn't die once.

 

-Claim to have the better methods of doing something, but spend all day on TIF instead of RS. Sounds like you're having lots of fun on a GAME.

Claim to have a better method of doing something, and spend all day on TIF trying to teach others about it. Sounds like you're an idiot and flaming people for not playing the way you do on a GAME.

[tripsis]

-Make sure you spam to a high post count so mods ignore any violations of that ^ or blatant flaming.

Post count means absolutely nothing to moderators.

 

Let's quit calling each other morons and be nice okay?

[Michael]

"Hi, I'm an admin and keyer in DGS. I would absolutely kick you for not dying in a floor." -Obtaurian

"I don't kick people for making little mistakes. I don't kick people for making mistakes at all..." -Obtaurian

 

 

I'm pretty sure that was a typo or misunderstanding :rolleyes:

 

No, it was a response to this:

 

 

I'd consider using your clan sometime this summer, but I have a feeling I would be branded as someone who "isn't willing to learn," or some crap like that, just because I pointed out very few of the many flaws with the mini game. The flaw with the clans is that you get kicked for being "slow" (aka not wanting to die) or not binding a hood that has no use half the time on the higher level floors. I think I'll stick to duoing with my semi mentally challenged brother, who is, at least, smarter than the random kids w117 has to offer and the efficiency trolls of clans. Once I get to level 83, I will already have all of the rewards I want, none of which are chatoics or mage necklaces. I don't want to spend 200k/hr on some reward that will be outclassed within the year or some useless necklace for a combat stat that I, quite literally, never use. Only 127k tokens to go before I can quit the mini game for good!

 

 

Not going in to gd's for not wanting to die often is something that you could be kicked for.

[SirIzenhime]

"Hi, I'm an admin and keyer in DGS. I would absolutely kick you for not dying in a floor." -Obtaurian

"I don't kick people for making little mistakes. I don't kick people for making mistakes at all..." -Obtaurian

 

 

I'm pretty sure that was a typo or misunderstanding :rolleyes:

 

No, it was a response to this:

 

 

I'd consider using your clan sometime this summer, but I have a feeling I would be branded as someone who "isn't willing to learn," or some crap like that, just because I pointed out very few of the many flaws with the mini game. The flaw with the clans is that you get kicked for being "slow" (aka not wanting to die) or not binding a hood that has no use half the time on the higher level floors. I think I'll stick to duoing with my semi mentally challenged brother, who is, at least, smarter than the random kids w117 has to offer and the efficiency trolls of clans. Once I get to level 83, I will already have all of the rewards I want, none of which are chatoics or mage necklaces. I don't want to spend 200k/hr on some reward that will be outclassed within the year or some useless necklace for a combat stat that I, quite literally, never use. Only 127k tokens to go before I can quit the mini game for good!

 

 

Not going in to gd's for not wanting to die often is something that you could be kicked for.

 

well in that case, I think he needs to understand WHY he would be kicked for it, and learn from that, instead of insulting others as being efficiency trolls.

If he joins a team that is meant to rush, then he should be trying to rush. He shouldn't be trying to go slow and save himself a couple K of xp per dungeon. If he doesn't want to worry about not being forced to go into a room he might die in, he should start joining other dungers who want to do it the same way, instead of trying to tell the teams that are trying to rush that they're being trolls.

If you're in a team with 4 other people, and the other 4 people are trying to rush, but you don't because you're afraid you'll die, you're slowing the whole dungeon down. You're the only one out of the 5 trying to go slow....you're stopping 4 other people from finishing a dungeon faster, for the sake of you. Who is the troll in this situation?

[Kthx]

Nvm.

Edited March 12, 2011 by Kthx

[Hedgehog]

I thought I'd summarize this thread a bit.

 

[Zaaps1]

@Studio

 

Hello, DGS Keyer here.

 

If you are sacrificing the speed of your entire team for the sake of your own xp, you are being extremely selfish and snobby. If you are low LP, ask some teammates for food before you reach trouble situations like this. If you see hard rooms coming up, ask teammates for 2-3 food. If 4 people are dealing with a GD, no matter how dangerous it is, 3 food should be enough for you to survive, provided the 4 people are piling properly and you employ all the useful tactics in dealing with GDs (using walls, tables, etc. for cover, kiting, etc.).

 

But if you instead let your team clear the GD while you waiting outside, you not only slow down the dungeon significantly (much more than you would think), you completely waste the supplies, LP, and prayer of all your teammates. And for what? The possibility of a death, which could've been entirely avoided had you been more in touch with your team?

 

To be frank, deaths really aren't a big deal. If you play a few dungeons with DGS, you'll see that there's really no one who makes a big deal out of deaths. Yes, I would take that -0% over that -13% any day, but at the same time, if it meant be efficient or would in some way benefit my team I would take the -13% without hesitation. You are in a team, and part of playing with a team is realizing that it will take some sacrifice on your part--not always in the form of deaths, not nearly--to progress the entire team forward and ultimately give more XP for everyone.

 

It seems to me you are a victim of bad dungeoneering teams, which is perfectly understandable. When I had low-dungeoneering and had to deal with terrible and ineffective teams, I hated and ranted about the skill being a "minigame" as well. In fact, I still don't believe it's perfect, not by any means. But while your teams may be inefficient and have bad dungeoneering skills, it's not reason to refuse to learn and embrace good dungeoneering practices yourself. Trust me when I say this: when you learn to be an efficient dungeoneer, the skill DOES become more enjoyable. And of course, eventually you will pick up great teams like the ones on DGS. That's when your view of dungeoneering will really change.

 

@Hedge, you got your axises mixed up.

[green9090]

I thought I'd summarize this thread a bit.

 

I'm 102 and still think it's a minigame. There's really nothing making it different from something like stealing creation- it's a game in which you use your skills, not a skill in and of itself.

 

Not to say I don't enjoy it or anything like that- it just is not a skill the way herblore or fletching or firemaking is. It's something else entirely, for better or for worse. It always weirds me out when people can't see how much more dungeoneering resembles a minigame than a skill.

[Naraku893]

dungeoneering is a skill that's dependent heavily on the community.

And the rs community is one of the worst of all the MMOs out there.

[Dragonlordjl]

dungeoneering is a skill that's dependent heavily on the community.

And the rs community is one of the worst of all the MMOs out there.

This.

 

If you don't have friends willing to go with you or a clan such as DGS, training DG will be one of the most miserable experiences in RS. To put it another way, the majority of RS is too [bleep]ing stupid to win a very simple minigame called Pest Control, where the only real things you have to do are devote about a quarter of your team to killing the monsters attacking the void knight, while the rest of the team kills spinners/portals. So what do you think will happen when these same idiots try to do something that requires as much forward-thinking and planning as Dungeoneering? It'll be a right cluster[bleep].

[Jacks0n]

best

 

skill

 

EVAR

Edited March 13, 2011 by jimmy_jim
No personal attacks, thanks!

[DeeKay]

Like it, but some aspects are disappointing.

It's awesome by all means, except the game engine's. The least they could've done is to get rid of the partially loaded rooms, if not the loading times for each room you open. Oh, and the monolith and huge obelisk rooms are an extreme pain when they appear at the beginning of the dungeon.

Edit: Oh, and the community, of course. Epic failage for that. Never should've been a multiplayer skill.

[Dragonlordjl]

Like it, but some aspects are disappointing.

Edit: Oh, and the community, of course. Epic failage for that. Never should've been a multiplayer skill.

Adding a multiplayer aspect to the skill was a good idea, but making multiplayer MANDATORY to maximize experience rates was a horrible idea. The exp gap between solo and team is one of my biggest points of contention with this skill.

[Golvellius]

I think the content could have been better.

Afterall, its a dungeon crawl not a skipfest.

Since its the year of [developmentally delayed]s errr.. clans and they need to risk everything to feel like they did something then I propose if you die in dungeoneering then your booted from the dungeon.

No xp.

Now thats risk for reward. :thumbup:

 

 

Hi, I'm an admin and keyer in DGS. I would absolutely kick you for not dying in a floor. If you're just standing outside of guardian rooms complaining about being low on prayer/food, you're wasting everyone's time. You know what the fastest way to replenish prayer and LP is? Take a wild guess. Every good dungeoneer knows that dying is sometimes necessary. Hoods are incredibly useful for every floor set (except for frozen).

 

As Gwyn pointed out, dungeoneering is far more complex than you think it is. You're trying to write off your ignorance as fact. You should work on that.

Obviously somebody else has to die but you since you don't have time to get prepared.

Sticking colored key in colored holes and doing some simple pattern recognition puzzles doesn't qualify as complex.

But if you think it is, then your making it so.

[SirIzenhime]

Obviously somebody else has to die but you since you don't have time to get prepared.

Sticking colored key in colored holes and doing some simple pattern recognition puzzles doesn't qualify as complex.

But if you think it is, then your making it so.

 

He meant complex as when compared to all the other skills.

And keyers die much more often then the other 4 in the group....just sayin'.

 

Are you even trying to post anything....worthwhile anymore? Or are you still caught up in your "Golv the 120 troll" act?

[muuuuuuuuuu]

Since its the year of [developmentally delayed]s errr.. clans and they need to risk everything to feel like they did something then I propose if you die in dungeoneering then your booted from the dungeon.

No xp.

Now thats risk for reward. :thumbup:

That would actually be a fairly interesting idea, though only if there was a modest (say 10%) exp bonus for "risky" dungeons, you could choose whether or not to make a dungeon "risky," and having a teammate die doesn't screw the whole group over.