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ckutzler

Should Players initiate a Class Action Lawsuit

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Wow, there's so many stupid arguments about.

 

About enjoying the benefits of bots and endorsing it: Just because you enjoy the result of bots being around, it doesn't mean you endorse botting to happen. The end result, may well come from alternative sources (i.e. Fix the skilling/combat system itself) and that would still satisfy the players who enjoyed the benefits of having bots around.

 

Exploiting bots is a victim-less 'crime', so it's not exactly unethical to do so either.

 

About suing JaGex because you can 'sue anyone': As someone else pointed out, you can't sue JaGex under US law.

 

It seems like I'm arguing on a tangent, I'd edit and reply when I wake up

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Lol... nowadays in america any clown can sue you for anything under the sun.

I could see something idiotic like this being tried.

But, I think you would have a better chance of being awarded something if you instead sue kids that hack accounts and steal your stuff.

 

It would be amusing to see someone try to sue a UK company under American law, wouldn't it?

I'm fairly sure you can, as they provide a service to you in America, in the same way that you could sue Volkswagen if your car blew up in America.

 

Obviously this is a stupid reason to sue Jagex, but if you could make a case against them you could take them to court.

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It would be amusing to see someone try to sue a UK company under American law, wouldn't it?

I'm fairly sure you can, as they provide a service to you in America, in the same way that you could sue Volkswagen if your car blew up in America.

 

Obviously this is a stupid reason to sue Jagex, but if you could make a case against them you could take them to court.

 

No you can't.

 

I think everybody should read the post #16 written by Marco before posting any more about lawsuits.

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It would be amusing to see someone try to sue a UK company under American law, wouldn't it?

I'm fairly sure you can, as they provide a service to you in America, in the same way that you could sue Volkswagen if your car blew up in America.

 

Obviously this is a stupid reason to sue Jagex, but if you could make a case against them you could take them to court.

 

No you can't.

 

I think everybody should read the post #16 written by Marco before posting any more about lawsuits.

 

I did read it. I'm not saying you could take jagex to court over this, I'm just saying if you had a legitimate reason to do so, you could.

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It would be amusing to see someone try to sue a UK company under American law, wouldn't it?

I'm fairly sure you can, as they provide a service to you in America, in the same way that you could sue Volkswagen if your car blew up in America.

 

Obviously this is a stupid reason to sue Jagex, but if you could make a case against them you could take them to court.

 

No you can't.

 

I think everybody should read the post #16 written by Marco before posting any more about lawsuits.

 

I did read it. I'm not saying you could take jagex to court over this, I'm just saying if you had a legitimate reason to do so, you could.

 

Yes, you could. But not in the United States.

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No, even if a group of players managed to get a botting programmer into court a few major things would happen to make your idea void of reason.

 

1. There is no law against botting, except if you really, really stretch out copyright law, but most judges would simply say that using an outside program does not violate copyright as it does not actually affect the coding of the game itself. This is not just my opinion, Jagex has taken around a half dozen programmers to court and only managed to shut down one, and the same people that Jagex had just shut down went and made another website using a new bot.

2. There is always another website filled with amateur programmers willing to pump out the latest RS bots

3. Lack of funding and organisation and adults, the rs average age probably caps out at 15-18 which makes them unable to really hire lawyers to argue a case. About the adults on RS, I seriously doubt that a person with a job, living place, and possibly a family is going to spend the hundreds of hours required to follow through with a lawsuit

 

To respond to the "Should" part of your post.

 

No, we shouldn't, it's a game, a video game, why does it matter enough to you or anybody else for that matter.


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No, we shouldn't, it's a game, a video game, why does it matter enough to you or anybody else for that matter.

I tried playing RL earlier... It was crazy! Yellow text didn't appear over people's heads as they spoke and when I got jumped in the alley for all my stuff, I kept my shoes, pants, and socks over my iPhone and iPod. I was scared and frightened, and so I crept into my basement to forevermore play RS. *Phew*. What a day it has been.


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I'm no law student, but just looking at Jagex's very short terms and conditions, there is no legal basis for us to sue them for allowing bots. It is however highly unethical for Jagex to market a fair game then just allow cheaters to trample all over it and perhaps a consumer's protection agency would do more good than a legal firm.

 

The strongest things we as legit players can do right now is to cancel your membership and find a better company to send your money to. Jagex clearly won't your $5, plenty of bots will replace you.


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I'm no law student, but just looking at Jagex's very short terms and conditions, there is no legal basis for us to sue them for allowing bots. It is however highly unethical for Jagex to market a fair game then just allow cheaters to trample all over it and perhaps a consumer's protection agency would do more good than a legal firm.

 

The strongest things we as legit players can do right now is to cancel your membership and find a better company to send your money to. Jagex clearly won't your $5, plenty of bots will replace you.

 

Civilians dying in Africa in massive campaigns of genocide and America sending soldiers to Libya is Unethical.

 

This is a minor inconvenience, deal with it.

 

And this is coming from a MAJOR skiller.


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I'm no law student, but just looking at Jagex's very short terms and conditions, there is no legal basis for us to sue them for allowing bots. It is however highly unethical for Jagex to market a fair game then just allow cheaters to trample all over it and perhaps a consumer's protection agency would do more good than a legal firm.

 

The strongest things we as legit players can do right now is to cancel your membership and find a better company to send your money to. Jagex clearly won't your $5, plenty of bots will replace you.

 

Civilians dying in Africa in massive campaigns of genocide and America sending soldiers to Libya is Unethical.

 

This is a minor inconvenience, deal with it.

 

And this is coming from a MAJOR skiller.

I didn't say inhumane. There are plenty of bad things that go on around the world and there's next to nothing that we can do about it.

However, profitting off bots while telling the rest that botting will be punished it very much unethical business behavior. And as consumers who accepted the TOC jagex put up I think it's only fair to expect Jagex to reciprocate and keep up their end of the bargain and enforce their rules. (The TOC is not quite a contract so we can't sue on that - but bad TOC is fair game for a consumer protection agency.


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I'm no law student, but just looking at Jagex's very short terms and conditions, there is no legal basis for us to sue them for allowing bots. It is however highly unethical for Jagex to market a fair game then just allow cheaters to trample all over it and perhaps a consumer's protection agency would do more good than a legal firm.

 

The strongest things we as legit players can do right now is to cancel your membership and find a better company to send your money to. Jagex clearly won't your $5, plenty of bots will replace you.

 

Civilians dying in Africa in massive campaigns of genocide and America sending soldiers to Libya is Unethical.

 

This is a minor inconvenience, deal with it.

 

And this is coming from a MAJOR skiller.

I didn't say inhumane. There are plenty of bad things that go on around the world and there's next to nothing that we can do about it.

However, profitting off bots while telling the rest that botting will be punished it very much unethical business behavior. And as consumers who accepted the TOC jagex put up I think it's only fair to expect Jagex to reciprocate and keep up their end of the bargain and enforce their rules. (The TOC is not quite a contract so we can't sue on that - but bad TOC is fair game for a consumer protection agency.

 

Unethical behavior is a behavior that is not ethical, the word ethical by webster means "1. the discipline dealing with what is good and bad and with moral duty and obligation 2. a theory or system of moral values"

 

Killing innocent people cannot be justified morally by a sane human being, I think I speak for the planet when I say that the slaughter of innocents is Unethical.

 

The fact that Jagex cannot detect bots well does not mean that they have unethical business practices, just that their technology is a tad bit behind.

 

Second off, cheating on an online game isn't such a new concept, learn to deal with it and at higher levels when your not skilling to make money you will actually be ok with bots existing to drop prices.


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I'm no law student, but just looking at Jagex's very short terms and conditions, there is no legal basis for us to sue them for allowing bots. It is however highly unethical for Jagex to market a fair game then just allow cheaters to trample all over it and perhaps a consumer's protection agency would do more good than a legal firm.

 

The strongest things we as legit players can do right now is to cancel your membership and find a better company to send your money to. Jagex clearly won't your $5, plenty of bots will replace you.

 

Civilians dying in Africa in massive campaigns of genocide and America sending soldiers to Libya is Unethical.

 

This is a minor inconvenience, deal with it.

 

And this is coming from a MAJOR skiller.

I didn't say inhumane. There are plenty of bad things that go on around the world and there's next to nothing that we can do about it.

However, profitting off bots while telling the rest that botting will be punished it very much unethical business behavior. And as consumers who accepted the TOC jagex put up I think it's only fair to expect Jagex to reciprocate and keep up their end of the bargain and enforce their rules. (The TOC is not quite a contract so we can't sue on that - but bad TOC is fair game for a consumer protection agency.

 

Unethical behavior is a behavior that is not ethical, the word ethical by webster means "1. the discipline dealing with what is good and bad and with moral duty and obligation 2. a theory or system of moral values"

 

Killing innocent people cannot be justified morally by a sane human being, I think I speak for the planet when I say that the slaughter of innocents is Unethical.

 

The fact that Jagex cannot detect bots well does not mean that they have unethical business practices, just that their technology is a tad bit behind.

 

Second off, cheating on an online game isn't such a new concept, learn to deal with it and at higher levels when your not skilling to make money you will actually be ok with bots existing to drop prices.

That is assuming Jagex is actually making a good faith effort in stopping bots, which I do not believe. Given how obvious some bots are, just going into the game and change up the menu option by 1 line (the common player 'bot traps') can stop literally thousands bots but Jagex refusing to do anything but rather take those traps away.

Look at recent trends, even if a bot is caught - already very low chance

- No more perm bans for bots

- Rollbacks instead of bans and the whole ugly effort to cover it up as "bugs"

- Temp bans with no skill or gold removal

- The whole free trade promise and putting on the whole show for 'referendum' when the programming is already done

- Buy back all past banned accounts for 3 months membership and erasing all blackarks

- Just a sad fact for the lolz - rs gold now sells at $0.90 per million..... .... ...

 

I'd say very much that Jagex is doing anything BUT putting up a good faith effort at stopping bots (as stated in their own TOC). They clearly want to make $ off bots.


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Businesses making money OMFG!

 

Expect Businesses to try and make money...

 

Your paying 5$ a month and expect T1 customer support and T1 programmers is a bit far fetched.


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There are 1 of 2 things happening here:

1. Jagex hasn't really put forth any effort at all toward detecting an punishing bots. As many have said, the bots and botters are completely obvious.

2. Their programming team is equivalent and/or worse then their QA team. I know, what can you really expect $5 a month to buy, but come on. It doesn't take much to detect these bots and I can tell you the absolutely pwnsome system they claim to have is nothing more then what a little script kiddie could write up in a matter of minutes... And what another little script kiddie could beat in 5 more minutes.

 

Yes, Jagex is making money off of these bots because they are obviously paying memberships. Okay, fair enough, but they shouldn't allow it to get to the point it has. There will soon be no more people for the gold farming sites to sell to. :P.


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There are 1 of 2 things happening here:

1. Jagex hasn't really put forth any effort at all toward detecting an punishing bots. As many have said, the bots and botters are completely obvious.

2. Their programming team is equivalent and/or worse then their QA team. I know, what can you really expect $5 a month to buy, but come on. It doesn't take much to detect these bots and I can tell you the absolutely pwnsome system they claim to have is nothing more then what a little script kiddie could write up in a matter of minutes... And what another little script kiddie could beat in 5 more minutes.

 

Yes, Jagex is making money off of these bots because they are obviously paying memberships. Okay, fair enough, but they shouldn't allow it to get to the point it has. There will soon be no more people for the gold farming sites to sell to. :P.

 

Your absolutely, 100% wrong about how easy it is to detect bots.

 

Java is a VERY basic code for games and undetectable scripts are easy as hell to make.

 

Most bots are F2P, actually the vast majority are F2P.


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Your absolutely, 100% wrong about how easy it is to detect bots.

 

Java is a VERY basic code for games and undetectable scripts are easy as hell to make.

 

Most bots are F2P, actually the vast majority are F2P.

I don't specialize in Java, but even still it can not be that hard. They can easily record enough information to distinguish a real player from a bot. I simply do not believe it's even on Jagex's priority list.

 

Yes, most bots are F2P. However, P2P is peppered with them too. Everything from dragons to avansies. I do believe these bots do belong to RWT/gold farming companies rather then everyday players that bot simply because all of their names are similar. Random x amount of alpha characters followed by x amount of numbers. All wearing the exact same gear. All in the same location.


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I do agree with this thread. The only thing I've been playing for, for a long time, is clan wars.

 

-Can't kill Tzhaar anymore as every world is full of bots (I got 2M tokkul before free trade came)

-Pretty much every single type of dragon is botted, including Frosts

-Every skill on earth is botted but some more than others which makes it hard for you to train them

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I do agree with this thread. The only thing I've been playing for, for a long time, is clan wars.

 

-Can't kill Tzhaar anymore as every world is full of bots (I got 2M tokkul before free trade came)

-Pretty much every single type of dragon is botted, including Frosts

-Every skill on earth is botted but some more than others which makes it hard for you to train them

And every minigame... Especially Soul Wars. 90% of the Soul War population on world 9 is bots. It's sad as [bleep].


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I do agree with this thread. The only thing I've been playing for, for a long time, is clan wars.

 

-Can't kill Tzhaar anymore as every world is full of bots (I got 2M tokkul before free trade came)

-Pretty much every single type of dragon is botted, including Frosts

-Every skill on earth is botted but some more than others which makes it hard for you to train them

And every minigame... Especially Soul Wars. 90% of the Soul War population on world 9 is bots. It's sad as [bleep].

 

Ya last year at some point I didn't know that and was excited to go there and barrage/SS with my new prayers - that excitement ended fast...

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I do agree with this thread. The only thing I've been playing for, for a long time, is clan wars.

 

-Can't kill Tzhaar anymore as every world is full of bots (I got 2M tokkul before free trade came)

-Pretty much every single type of dragon is botted, including Frosts

-Every skill on earth is botted but some more than others which makes it hard for you to train them

And every minigame... Especially Soul Wars. 90% of the Soul War population on world 9 is bots. It's sad as [bleep].

 

I wouldn't say every minigame. I haven't heard of somebody making a castlewars bot yet.


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I wouldn't say every minigame. I haven't heard of somebody making a castlewars bot yet.

 

There's a bot for everything.


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A few points:

$5 per month may not seem a lot, but maybe you should browse around for some used console games and steam, these days $5 in the gaming industry should buy your A LOT of hours of entertainment. And for us long time subscribers - Jagex made $300+ off myself already, $300 would make me any gaming company happy - if you buy ALL the Call of Duty Games new - it won't even come to that much.

 

OFC Jagex is a business, but there IS a distinction between good, moral conscious businesses and terrible companies out there to make a killing. Everyone hates big pharma companies for charging so much for your prescription - but did you know that some companies donate their products in terms of free malaria pills to Sub-Saharan Africa? Would you rather have a company that makes a ton of profit but causes giant oil spills or a less profitable company who is environmentally sustainable.

 

And at some point during this whole profit debate, do remember that bots shorten the lifetime of the game, introduces tons and tons of gp so that gp continues to become worthless vs rare items and sought after commodities, and eventually KILLS the game.


I would prefer even to fail with honor than to win by cheating - Sophocles

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I wouldn't say every minigame. I haven't heard of somebody making a castlewars bot yet.

 

There's a bot for everything.

 

Even Nex? And by a bot, I mean an efficient bot.

 

Pal's post seems like a mis-post, intended for a different thread. Is that correct, pal?

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