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Should Players initiate a Class Action Lawsuit


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#1
ckutzler
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Jagex has entered into contract with its paying customers to provide a safe environment to play with rules of conduct and play enforced by Jagex.

But....

The number of bots introduced into the game has been increasing exponentially to the point that some of the newer macros are affecting
the experience per hour non cheating players can now earn.

Example the new Ardougne Master Farmer bot. A live player will try to corner the Master Farmer in the Farmer Npc house so that his
movements are limited and one can pickpocket quickly. But the new macro the cheater does not care how fast they gain xp as long as they
can do it over time. So they can afford to leave gates open or leave the house door open or leave to bank their ill gotten loot regardless
of whether or not the farmer will escape.

The non cheating player will then spend 20 minutes trying to corner the farmer again only to have it released the next banking cycle of the bot.

Those of us not cheating are having our game experience affected by reducing the selling price of our loots because they can collect far more than the non cheating player.

It reduces the achievement of our Skill capes as hundreds of macro using cheaters are able to get them faster than us.

They are also using their loot to buy other capes they cant cheat on increasing the price of raw goods such as bones because they
can acquire more wealth than the non cheating player.

I believe that this has now gotten to the level that Jagex contract with players is now in violation by Jagex in that they are not following
the contract in assuring that all players follow the rules of play and conduct.

Anyone out there who has a Law Degree in any country where Jagex is conducting operations please see if Jagex not controlling the bots is violating the terms of contract we have with them.

and can instigate a class action lawsuit to force compliance and/or financial restitution to those not cheating.

#2
Assume Nothing
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Eh, I don't see how your reasoning links to "Players should initiate a lawsuit against JaGex"

#3
Pluckey
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This has always been a problem.

Where have you been?

#4
Ring_World
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They are [cabbage] money and xp per hour anyways. Here I thought you had something good to say, Jagex cant get sued for not banning enough bots, the conditions is that you could get banned should you cheat, not that Jagex is obligated to. Also there is no guarantee for x amount of xp per hour for any player

#5
Danqazmlp
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It is the players using the bots which are having the detrimental effect not Jagex. It is nigh impossible for them to remove all the bots. The players are the ones using them. If Jagex were to purposefully make the game worse with that specific aim I guess people may have a small amount to go onb, but currently as the situation is, no.

Edit: Also, what would the purpose be? Other than to get money out of them which is very greedy, no good would come of it. Jagex would lose money, resulting in less staff, resulting in less fixing, updates and removal of bots, making the game progressively worse.
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#6
Ginger_Warrior
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You don't sign anything that says, "We will endeavour to remove cheats from the game in return for your hard earned cash". It's at Jagex's descretion.

Jesus, Microsoft would be in trouble in this were true given all the unfair glitching/cheating that happens on XBL.

#7
Krampell
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So you're saying that we players should sue Jagex because there are bots in the game which they are not able to stop?

That's like suing someone for not being able to do a task.
Like not being able to lift 100kg because he is not strong enough.

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#8
Range_This11
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Jagex tried to remove bots from the game once and when they realized it was, is and always will be a fruitless attempt, they rolled back the game to where it should be. Bots are part of this game like it or not.

Seriously....why the hell would sue the company that makes your game? So they run out of money and can't update or support RuneScape? Smart thinking there...

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#9
Will H
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You can't sue Jagex for something which they made explicitly clear would happen, and which we as a community still voted for. That's neither legal nor fair.

~ W ~


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#10
noble_aloof
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This is comical. Its obvious that jagex was overconfident and misled the players in regards to their bot detection system. Their lax approach to botting was apparent when they (without telling the public) demoted a macroing offense from a permanent ban to something like a week for first offense. Most macros are undetectable if you run for under 6 hours a day. An astronomical percentage of bots and gold farmers slip under the radar (easily 85%). If you play runescape to get your skills up, earn skill capes, attain a higher total level, and move up the high scores, right now its not looking like the best way to spend your time (nor was it ever, IMO). In my eyes Runescape has always been a flawed game with free trade and pvp making up for its shortcomings compared to other MMO's. PvP and the elements of free trade are unique parts of the game that no bot can water down or ruin. If you don't play to PvP (PvM to some degree) and amass an obscene amount of wealth through merchanting, then maybe its time to begin player killing, start botting, or just quit the game altogether. You obviously aren't playing the right way (I just went there).
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#11
Range_This11
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This is comical. Its obvious that jagex was overconfident and misled the players in regards to their bot detection system. Their lax approach to botting was apparent when they (without telling the public) demoted a macroing offense from a permanent ban to something like a week for first offense. Most macros are undetectable if you run for under 6 hours a day. An astronomical percentage of bots and gold farmers slip under the radar (easily 85%). If you play runescape to get your skills up, earn skill capes, attain a higher total level, and move up the high scores, right now its not looking like the best way to spend your time (nor was it ever, IMO). In my eyes Runescape has always been a flawed game with free trade and pvp making up for its shortcomings compared to other MMO's. PvP and the elements of free trade are unique parts of the game that no bot can water down or ruin. If you don't play to PvP (PvM to some degree) and amass an obscene amount of wealth through merchanting, then maybe its time to begin player killing, start botting, or just quit the game altogether. You obviously aren't playing the right way (I just went there).

Diff'rent strokes for Diff'rent folks. I don't know where you're getting "right now its not looking like the best way to spend your time" from, I've always loved skilling and I always will. Bots don't make me angry, they just make me laugh. Those people get no satisfaction from this game.

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#12
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lets sue jagex and make them lose lots of money and make them have to lay off a few workers so we get less updates :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
then we don't get stupid things like the row glitch or invisible pking
 

#13
The Observer
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Jagex isn't forcing you to play RuneScape nor is your account and items your property so I doubt it would be valid. I also don't see any 'real' damages being made for it to require tort law. Jagex isn't exactly endorsing it here either. (I'm not really a lawyer, so don't quote me on that.) Besides, I don't really see the point of doing that. As other posters have suggested, removing a large amount of money from Jagex won't be very helpful for the game.

All in all, I say those that are botting and cheating are ruining the game for others. You should take the fight to them rather than to the company who runs the game.

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#14
Fire_God
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Actually for some people, that would be more like suing Jagex because Jagex did not stop them from botting. Which brings up and interesting point. Let's say that a law suite did go through and the players won. Several of those players invariably botted. Should they be rewarded too?

With that kind of logic I could go to McDonalds, order a coffee, dump it on my lap, and then sue McDonalds because they didn't stop me.

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#15
strilmus
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Ugh okay.

I'll have to dumb this down so that I'll provide at least a decent example for other people

but most of the time it looks like the honest player gets the short end of the stick for no reason.

EDIT: And I guess while we're actually on the subject

a lawsuit would really target the wrong people, despite their overall ignorance

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#16
Marco
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Hey, I'm 2/3 through a law degree (UK).

Just so you know, if you're serious about taking legal action, you should know what you've signed up for just by creating an account. If you really want to go down this route then I'd advise you to first contact Jagex themselves by emailing lawcontact@jagex.com. This is the current version of the legally binding contract you have entered into with Jagex Limited:

Terms and Conditions [3rd March 2011]



Now, I don't think that I fully understand what the grounds of your planned action are. Which terms from the above contract do you think Jagex have breached exactly, because that is what a court will want to know if it ever did get that far.

Just skimming through the contract, the terms which regard people who break the rules themselves (including use of bots) are covered under the heading "Our Rights".

The most important part of the whole contract regarding what I believe to be your complaint, would come under the heading "OUR AND YOUR LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY":

WE DO NOT ACCEPT LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY LOSS OR DAMAGE CAUSED BY US OR OUR EMPLOYEES OR AGENTS IN CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE (A) THERE IS NO BREACH OF A LEGAL DUTY OF CARE OWED TO YOU BY US OR BY ANY OF OUR EMPLOYEES OR AGENTS; (B) SUCH LOSS OR DAMAGE IS NOT A REASONABLY FORESEEABLE RESULT OF ANY SUCH BREACH; OR © SUCH LOSS OR DAMAGE RELATES TO A BUSINESS. YOU AGREE TO WAIVE ANY LEGAL DUTY OF CARE OWED TO YOU BY JAGEX, TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT ALLOWED BY LAW.


What would at first be important to consider here is the extent to which Jagex owe you a legal duty of care, and whether by "allowing" players to use bots breaches this duty of care. The extent of the duty of care owed to you can be estimated through several cases that have already taken place at High Courts, Court of Appeal and the House of Lords (now the Supreme Court), so you'll have to research the case law yourself I'm afraid.

Oh, and by the by, if you're American (I'm assuming you are, what with the "class action"), you should to familiarise yourself with UK contract law to take this further because, like with every contract you've agreed to online, the company will want any proceedings dealt with in the country of that company's HQ, as stated here:

These terms and conditions are governed by English law and any dispute connected with them or Jagex Products will be decided only by the courts of the United Kingdom.


Going by what I believe to be your complaint... I really don't think you should bother with this, though. From what I've read, there are no terms in the contract which specifically bind Jagex to providing a "bot free" environment for you to play. In fact, Jagex specifically do not guarantee that other users will comply by their rules. They go on to suggest a possible remedy for people in your situation ("I paid for a product and I don't want bots diminishing my enjoyment of the product"?):

Safety and Abuse
Whilst we reserve the right to monitor and take action if any Jagex Product is used inappropriately (including the posting of objectionable material on the chat facility or otherwise), we cannot promise that any Jagex Product won't contain such content or that we will remove / modify any particular content. Nor can we guarantee that users will comply with our terms and conditions or otherwise behave appropriately.


If you are the victim of offensive or inappropriate behaviour or receive any other unwanted communications, you should use the built-in facilities to block the messages. (See this article for guidance on blocking messages.) You should report all inappropriate behaviour to us via the in game "Report abuse" button as well as seeking appropriate external help, for example from parents or law enforcement authorities. If you continue to suffer problems, or are not satisfied, then you must stop using the relevant Jagex Product(s).



If you can clarify exactly what part of the contract you think has been breached then I can go into further depth for you if you like.

Hope this helps.. As far as I can see, there has been no breach. Jagex have excluded themselves from liability with regard to other players using bots. They have not breached their duty of care owed to you. You have no legal claim to remedy.

Then again, I've only spent 10 minutes reading through the contract, and I do not have a full law degree yet (let alone the fact that I'm not even a practising contract law lawyer), so I must warn you that I am not liable if you choose to take action based on my advice. As said, if you really want to look at the full possibilities then I'd suggest you first talk to Jagex about it and then seek independent legal advice.

Edited by Marco, 24 March 2011 - 03:42 AM.

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#17
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Actually for some people, that would be more like suing Jagex because Jagex did not stop them from botting. Which brings up and interesting point. Let's say that a law suite did go through and the players won. Several of those players invariably botted. Should they be rewarded too?

With that kind of logic I could go to McDonalds, order a coffee, dump it on my lap, and then sue McDonalds because they didn't stop me.


Go into McDonalds, accidently spill coffee on your lap, and sue them because the coffee was hot.

vs

Go into McDonads, order a coffee, dump it on your lap, sue McDonalds because they didn't stop you.

Both of those sound quite simillar, and the top one actually worked in a court of law.

Hence why coffee comes with warning labels now.

Not sure where I'm going with this....

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#18
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Actually for some people, that would be more like suing Jagex because Jagex did not stop them from botting. Which brings up and interesting point. Let's say that a law suite did go through and the players won. Several of those players invariably botted. Should they be rewarded too?

With that kind of logic I could go to McDonalds, order a coffee, dump it on my lap, and then sue McDonalds because they didn't stop me.


Go into McDonalds, accidently spill coffee on your lap, and sue them because the coffee was hot.

vs

Go into McDonads, order a coffee, dump it on your lap, sue McDonalds because they didn't stop you.

Both of those sound quite simillar, and the top one actually worked in a court of law.

Hence why coffee comes with warning labels now.

Not sure where I'm going with this....


However, what gets left out of most peoples telling of case one is that the coffee that the McD's was selling was above the temperature it was suppose to be. In addition, that particular McD's had been warned on multiple occasions that they were threatening people's safety and they must lower the temp. Also, if the temp had been the correct 140 degrees, then it would not have caused the kinds of third degree burns to the woman and her lap.

In my imaginary case, standing there, at the register and pouring the coffee all over your body would not give you the ability to win a court case.

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#19
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OP you are a [bleep]ing moron.

/tread

#20
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No, you can't file a lawsuit because Jagex's lawyers would sucessfuly argue that it is doing everything it can, and asks you to help it by reporting players. Not such a smart idea, especially given the cost of legal proceedings.

I'm not an efficienado.





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