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Tip.It Times - 17th April 2011


Racheya
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Time for a new release of the: >>>Tip.It Times!<<<

 

I'd like to remind people of the rules pertaining to Times threads:

 

[hide=Read these rules before posting in this thread]

Rampant flame wars have taken control of virtually every week's times discussion topics. The following guidelines must be followed when posting on this topic. Posts that ignore these guidelines will be removed.

 

1. You are invited and welcome to express like or dislike on articles and a particular author's writing style. It is not acceptable, however, to flame or personally insult an author. Posts that aren't anything but an attack will be removed from the topic.

 

2. Spelling and grammar errors can be reported to Racheya by PMing her and they will be fixed promptly. It is not necessary to post them on the discussion topic.

 

3. Off topic posts that do not discuss the content of that week's articles will be removed. This is not the place to discuss the direction of the times, how much you love or hate the times, etc. Off topic posts will be removed.

 

By keeping within these guidelines, Times discussion topics will mean more for the Panel and Administration than just a place for flame wars. Flame wars do not provide any useful feedback to the Times, which is mainly what we're aiming for with these topics: feedback.

 

This policy is effective as of now, November 17, 2010. Any posts prior to the creation of this policy may or may not be removed according to the new guidelines.

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When replying please make sure to clarify the article you are replying to! Thanks!

 

If you spot any typos or mistakes in the article then please PM them to me :)

 

Enjoy the articles!

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I edit for the [Tip.It Times]. I rarely write in [My Blog]. I am an [Ex-Moderator].

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I agree with what the first article says about the layout of Dungeoneering rooms, I never see anyone in those "floor" rooms which auto-put you into a team, so they kind of go unused. I agree too with the point of "Batch" updates are good, they do add depth and mechanics that fix the errors they didn't think of on first release of a skill, but sometimes those errors are so large that it seems like they weren't tested, and even then, it often feels like the batch updates were already conceptualized when they were making the skill and not directed at what the community has said they'd like to see improve. Gosh, the year went fast since it was released :P

 

For the second article, I think it kills itself in the final paragraph :P. I can't honestly believe the updates over the years haven't "added much in the way of depth or fun to the game.", that's what makes the game surely! :P . I can agree with it's popularity, I see clan capes and vexillums everywhere I go, however more often than not it's a 1 man clan for the purposes of a designable cape. I think Jagex should take a leaf out of that book, and add more personalised equipment with tons of options, kind of like their colouring of the whip and Infinity robes, and take out the option of having a 1 man clan. It doesn't make much sense :P I don't agree that Jagex has helped to stabilise clans yet, it's too soon to be able to judge that I think :P

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For the second article, I think it kills itself in the final paragraph :P

 

Agreed. Some of the quests I've done recently have been very deep, with excellent character development (e.g. The Void Knights series), and other quests have had deep, well thought out puzzles (Meeting History is my favourite example of this. I can understand a writer disagreeing with my views, but stating somethimg that is their opinion as fact just annoys me. I personaly am not intrested in clans, but don't go around saying clans don't add anything to the game, because they do for some players, even if they don't for me,

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I disagree with the author's ideas that clans will be more long-lived because of this update in the second article. The tools provided by Jagex are a wonderful thing, but it is not something that we (as clan users) didn't have access to before. They're simply consolidated all in one place now, which makes it easier for clans to be created but has very little impact on longevity. There were plenty of ranking wars on off-site hosting, and it still did little for clan life--in fact you could argue that being ranked and drawing attention decreases stability if you're not prepared for the surge of growth. Suggesting otherwise sort of made it hard to take the author seriously. (Though I'll give him credit for trying.) I think this article would've served better as purely an informative one considering the circumstance.

 

Congratulations on making the times, though, Crocefisso. What clans were you in that made you interested on writing about the Clan Camp? I'm curious on where your experiences stem from.

 

EDIT: Tidied up my post a bit, didn't mean to come across as rude! :oops:

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The clan camp is particularly helpful to those with the ambition to start off a new clan with their closest friends. Mind, clans in Runescape are more like families than they are guilds and this update helps formalize such a family by giving it an official appearance. This update doesn't really translate into clans lasting for a bloody long time, however. The qualities that would assure longevity all hinge on what kind of folk are in the clan.

 

I agree on Kimberly's point that shining a spotlight on a clan may very well prove its undoing. Things can get a bit ... wonky, when a clan gets too large or is expected to uphold a certain reputation.

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The article about clans was a little boring but informative enough. :) I'm not saying it's bad but here are some tips:

 

"The Clan Camp" as a title is lacking in that certain something that makes a person want to read more. When writing a title, "Clan Camp: (put your idea here)" is better than just "The General Topic" type of title.

 

For example, which title is better "The Return of the Wilderness" or "Wilderness is Back - and People are Staying Away in Droves"?

 

The first is okay but the second grabs your attention and tells you exactly what to expect. :)

 

The first paragraph is also a bit strange. So about the UN and Jagex? It doesn't seem to have any bearing on the matter at hand. Stay focused on your topic and don't get distracted by extraneous things.

 

The sentence "It is a constant of human behaviour, and the exact reason that a majority of people opt to watch a film such as 300 over, say, The Kite Runner." is weird and out of place, I don't understand what you are saying at all.

 

I take it this is the writer's first article in the Tip It Times? Congrats! It's a good article, don't be afraid to spice it up just a little bit, IMO.

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For the second article, I think it kills itself in the final paragraph :P

 

Agreed. Some of the quests I've done recently have been very deep, with excellent character development (e.g. The Void Knights series), and other quests have had deep, well thought out puzzles (Meeting History is my favourite example of this. I can understand a writer disagreeing with my views, but stating somethimg that is their opinion as fact just annoys me. I personaly am not intrested in clans, but don't go around saying clans don't add anything to the game, because they do for some players, even if they don't for me,

 

I'm sorry if it came across that way, Dragonmaker9, yet this was not what I was trying to say at all.

 

When I say that updates such as new skills and quests don't add depth to the game, what I am trying to say is that, though the individual quests may be deep, they do not add depth to the overall gameplay experience in that they do not add new layers of gameplay, rather, they simply expand on what is already there. Regardless of the content, they are not as new in the sense of innovation as the Clan Camp because they still follow a similar - to whatever extent - model to all the other quests in the game. The same can be said of skills; they follow a similar model to all the others. The reason I single out Construction as different is because the POH, and the opportunities it opens up in terms of socialising, gives players a tangible reward far beyond those of other skills (e.g. being able to catch a new fish, cut a new tree etc). The only recent skill which comes close is Summoning, and the way it changes combat, but arguably the wealth of interactive features (fighting arenas, telescopes, trap doors etc) and customisation of the POH outstrips the ability to walk around and fight with a large bird.

 

Therefore, I wasn't deriding quests or skills; instead, I was pointing out that quests do not add depth in the aforementioned sense. I should have made it more clear. When I said they didn't add "fun", I was indeed stating an opinion as fact. Though I'm sorry if it annoys you, it is nevertheless the point of subjective, opinion articles to do so, and all articles which add something other than objective information do this.


"Imagine yourself surrounded by the most horrible cripples and maniacs it is possible to conceive, and you may understand a little of my feelings with these grotesque caricatures of humanity about me."

- H.G. Wells, The Island of Doctor Moreau

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The article about clans was a little boring but informative enough. :) I'm not saying it's bad but here are some tips:

 

"The Clan Camp" as a title is lacking in that certain something that makes a person want to read more. When writing a title, "Clan Camp: (put your idea here)" is better than just "The General Topic" type of title.

 

For example, which title is better "The Return of the Wilderness" or "Wilderness is Back - and People are Staying Away in Droves"?

 

The first is okay but the second grabs your attention and tells you exactly what to expect. :)

 

The first paragraph is also a bit strange. So about the UN and Jagex? It doesn't seem to have any bearing on the matter at hand. Stay focused on your topic and don't get distracted by extraneous things.

 

The sentence "It is a constant of human behaviour, and the exact reason that a majority of people opt to watch a film such as 300 over, say, The Kite Runner." is weird and out of place, I don't understand what you are saying at all.

 

I take it this is the writer's first article in the Tip It Times? Congrats! It's a good article, don't be afraid to spice it up just a little bit, IMO.

 

Thanks very much for the feedback, meili. Looking back at the article, I agree that perhaps the comparison of Jagex to the UN was an unnecessary digression. I also agree that it was dry and places and could do with some "spicing up".

 

The sentence about 300 and The Kite Runner alludes to the preceeding sentence; people want something awe inspiring, hence the reason more people went to see the spectacle of 300 at the cinema than those who went to see The Kite Runner (by quite a large margin, according to its domestic gross figures). I'm sorry if the relation was not clear enough; perhaps they should have been part of a single sentence.

 

As for the issue of the title, I agree with you totally. I'm not sure why and it has certainly irritated me, but the title "The Clan Camp" was not my original title. Indeed, the actual title, which is the one the article had when I sent it to the Editors, was "The Clan Camp: paradigm shift or unnecessary diversion?" . If it was deemed unsuitable by the Editors, surely they could have added something else onto the end. <_<

 

***

 

As for those of you who have very rightly pointed out that this increased officialisation and rankings will decrease clan stability, whereas I believed it would increase it, your point is very valid. It really depends on the clan; some will indeed crumble under the pressure of having to maintain a reputation, yet this will not be the case for all. Therefore, it figures that those that manage to uphold even this spotlight - far greater than being ranked by external sites, which do not hold much sway among the general playerbase (a minority of players are aware of them, I'd say) - will only increase their repute and this should translate into greater stability; higher levelled players will want to join a winning clan and so their high status can be preserved.

 

The idea that all this will increase a clan's stability revolves around my idea that people will now consider clans more of an everyday part of their game, due to their increased physical presence. People who get into the game - surely many of you have seen the types who are devoted to their clan - can become more so because they now have their own symbols, motto, and unique identity, as well as a stronger impetus to succeed: RCW, which will hold far more sway than external sites, for they will be seen by a far greater proportion of players. Similarly, recruiting is easier for clans now, thanks to vexillums, and they generally have more attention from the playerbase, making it harder for some resignations to trigger the collapse of a clan as so often happened in smaller, newer clans, for it will be easier to subsidise this. So, recruitment is easier, more people are aware of clans and will be motivated to join them, and the use of vexillums means people can be made aware of clans other than the better known, older clans, which would quite often be the case when people first joined clans in the old days - or so I perceive. The opposite may always come true. With clans, we can never be truly sure.


"Imagine yourself surrounded by the most horrible cripples and maniacs it is possible to conceive, and you may understand a little of my feelings with these grotesque caricatures of humanity about me."

- H.G. Wells, The Island of Doctor Moreau

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For the second article, I think it kills itself in the final paragraph :P

 

Agreed. Some of the quests I've done recently have been very deep, with excellent character development (e.g. The Void Knights series), and other quests have had deep, well thought out puzzles (Meeting History is my favourite example of this. I can understand a writer disagreeing with my views, but stating somethimg that is their opinion as fact just annoys me. I personaly am not intrested in clans, but don't go around saying clans don't add anything to the game, because they do for some players, even if they don't for me,

 

I'm sorry if it came across that way, Dragonmaker9, yet this was not what I was trying to say at all.

 

When I say that updates such as new skills and quests don't add depth to the game, what I am trying to say is that, though the individual quests may be deep, they do not add depth to the overall gameplay experience in that they do not add new layers of gameplay, rather, they simply expand on what is already there. Regardless of the content, they are not as new in the sense of innovation as the Clan Camp because they still follow a similar - to whatever extent - model to all the other quests in the game. The same can be said of skills; they follow a similar model to all the others. The reason I single out Construction as different is because the POH, and the opportunities it opens up in terms of socialising, gives players a tangible reward far beyond those of other skills (e.g. being able to catch a new fish, cut a new tree etc). The only recent skill which comes close is Summoning, and the way it changes combat, but arguably the wealth of interactive features (fighting arenas, telescopes, trap doors etc) and customisation of the POH outstrips the ability to walk around and fight with a large bird.

 

Therefore, I wasn't deriding quests or skills; instead, I was pointing out that quests do not add depth in the aforementioned sense. I should have made it more clear. When I said they didn't add "fun", I was indeed stating an opinion as fact. Though I'm sorry if it annoys you, it is nevertheless the point of subjective, opinion articles to do so, and all articles which add something other than objective information do this.

 

No worries, thanks for clearing that up :thumbsup: . Although I think Dungeoneering also opens up new ways of socialising, and could be added to that list if I'm understanding you correctly - especially with the co-operation required (as much as Jagex says Pest Control was their first co-opreative minigame, it really is just a matter of running up to the portals and destroying them without saying a word).

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I take it you mean how the clan camp is only used by players to get their fancy new capes and not really intending to make a clan. How, out of all those 33,000+ or so clans that have been made, there are probably less than a thousand you could consider actual clans. It may look as if Jagex is forcing player interaction, no?

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I take it you mean how the clan camp is only used by players to get their fancy new capes and not really intending to make a clan. How, out of all those 33,000+ or so clans that have been made, there are probably less than a thousand you could consider actual clans. It may look as if Jagex is forcing player interaction, no?

 

No, it may not look that way. It is that way. More and more group oriented combat trying to be more WoW-like. I really don't like it.

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I personally think the second article was an attempt to polish a Jagex turd.

 

I personally think that the Clan Camp was a solid update and you're jumping on a very old bandwagon that's falling apart. It did exactly what it was meant to do, bringing clans into a cohesive and standardised system. It saves everyone who want to make a clan a lot of time.

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I personally think the second article was an attempt to polish a Jagex turd.

 

I personally think that the Clan Camp was a solid update and you're jumping on a very old bandwagon that's falling apart. It did exactly what it was meant to do, bringing clans into a cohesive and standardised system. It saves everyone who want to make a clan a lot of time.

 

I'm not jumping on. I've been on this bandwagon. Hell I helped build it.

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I personally think the second article was an attempt to polish a Jagex turd.

 

I personally think that the Clan Camp was a solid update and you're jumping on a very old bandwagon that's falling apart. It did exactly what it was meant to do, bringing clans into a cohesive and standardised system. It saves everyone who want to make a clan a lot of time.

 

I'm not jumping on. I've been on this bandwagon. Hell I helped build it.

 

There's a difference between not liking an update because it doesn't suit your playing style and being intentionally ignorant of what aid it gives to the players it was created for, because I'm sure that the merits for clan users (from a clan user's point of view) were expressed to you in the previous update thread.

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For the second article, I think it kills itself in the final paragraph :P

 

Agreed. Some of the quests I've done recently have been very deep, with excellent character development (e.g. The Void Knights series), and other quests have had deep, well thought out puzzles (Meeting History is my favourite example of this. I can understand a writer disagreeing with my views, but stating somethimg that is their opinion as fact just annoys me. I personaly am not intrested in clans, but don't go around saying clans don't add anything to the game, because they do for some players, even if they don't for me,

 

I'm sorry if it came across that way, Dragonmaker9, yet this was not what I was trying to say at all.

 

When I say that updates such as new skills and quests don't add depth to the game, what I am trying to say is that, though the individual quests may be deep, they do not add depth to the overall gameplay experience in that they do not add new layers of gameplay, rather, they simply expand on what is already there. Regardless of the content, they are not as new in the sense of innovation as the Clan Camp because they still follow a similar - to whatever extent - model to all the other quests in the game. The same can be said of skills; they follow a similar model to all the others. The reason I single out Construction as different is because the POH, and the opportunities it opens up in terms of socialising, gives players a tangible reward far beyond those of other skills (e.g. being able to catch a new fish, cut a new tree etc). The only recent skill which comes close is Summoning, and the way it changes combat, but arguably the wealth of interactive features (fighting arenas, telescopes, trap doors etc) and customisation of the POH outstrips the ability to walk around and fight with a large bird.

 

Therefore, I wasn't deriding quests or skills; instead, I was pointing out that quests do not add depth in the aforementioned sense. I should have made it more clear. When I said they didn't add "fun", I was indeed stating an opinion as fact. Though I'm sorry if it annoys you, it is nevertheless the point of subjective, opinion articles to do so, and all articles which add something other than objective information do this.

 

Ah, that makes it clearer! I still don't agree though, I think many of the recent quests have added new things to the game that we haven't seen before, though they take the format of "quest", each has it's own theme and introduces new ones, for example the Lunar Quests added the sort of combat-aid magic mechanic, and a theme which I can't quite describe other than "Healer-magic". Many of the minigames though following the term "minigame" have added layers that we haven't seen before too.

 

Congratulations on making it to the Tip.it Times by the way! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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I take it you mean how the clan camp is only used by players to get their fancy new capes and not really intending to make a clan. How, out of all those 33,000+ or so clans that have been made, there are probably less than a thousand you could consider actual clans. It may look as if Jagex is forcing player interaction, no?

 

That would be the cynical approach ;) , though they were my initial thoughts. Forced interaction it may be, but it's not exactly the worst thing they've done.


"Imagine yourself surrounded by the most horrible cripples and maniacs it is possible to conceive, and you may understand a little of my feelings with these grotesque caricatures of humanity about me."

- H.G. Wells, The Island of Doctor Moreau

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The Clan Camp

 

 

I have not had any decent experiences with Clans in Runescape. The last I too part in was an "invite only" Clan run by pmods who were adults...and quite frankly, they all acted like children of 10 years of age (imo), and bigotted children at that. After this last expereince, I have decided to stay far away from anything "clan related" and just play the game.

 

As for the "update", I have but my own opinion. I do not see it as anything truly beneficial to the actual gameplay, and by that, I simply mean that it doesn't actually change the way people play the game, per se, as would a new Skill or added equipment would, rather it just shines a light on an aspect of the game that has been around since its conception. What makes the "real" difference in a Clan are the members....not all these fancy capes and such. My opinion only.

 

Quite frankly, the whole setup reminds me something of the way Clans are run in Perfect World International. In that game, Clans even occupy "territories" which they battle over. But what I found interesting in PWI, is that there are only a handful of Clans, each drastically large, as "smaller" ones would be just eaten alive soon after forming because of lack of numbers, skill, and means to defend themselves from the larger ones. If Jagex plans to copy PWI along this line, I can guess the outcome already.....

 

In my own view, I see this new Clan thingummywat burning out as would a new piece of equipment like the Brackish Sword, etc. Sure, it's fun and all now, and for quit a few players....but sooner or later the only ones who will be getting the attention will be those who are ranked on top as the write alluded to in the article. Most players I come across seek fame and fortune, and will want to be a part of the "big dog" Clan(s) as opposed to any startup one (imo again). I will wait till things settle down and Jagex gets more kinks out of their system to pass any further judgement of my own.

 

Nice read as always from a Tip.It article. Thank you for having them and discussions related to them.

 

 

Cheers.

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