"Loafing" in Minigames

[Andy]

Why do you care? Having 1 person afking on both teams makes 0 difference to the game. Loafing in a game like castle wars is fine.

[la la la]

The way you phrased it sounded more like spiting them was your goal...

You said you hate people slacking in the activities you enjoy, and then defended your loafing in CW, which you'll have to do more than you would enjoy (I can't assume that you hate CW altogether...)

How is that not hypocrisy?

No, certain activities are selective, like dungeoneering. In a selective activity, we have the right to team up with whoever we please. In larger activities like cw, there is no selection system, other than hopping worlds. Because of this, everyone has the right to play as they please without having to worry much about being "deselected" from a team. Therefore, there's no real reason to succeed other than for personal gain.

 

Once you get into cw clans, this all changes... that's now what I'm talking about.

You can personally be selective with CW too, though, without being in an actual CW clan. It would be easier for you and other "loafers", if you want to call yourself that, to simply join an unpopulated world. This would even be faster, as you wouldn't have to set your schedule around the end/start times of the theme worlds. AFAIK, worlds with no one in the waiting rooms will begin exactly 5 minutes after one person joins each team.

There really just seem to be a few compromises that would make those who actually want to play and those whom are only there for the Comp(T) requirement happy without requiring much more effort.

So someone there for a comp (t) cape is somehow evil? We're both playing with the rules. The only person at fault is the one trying to tell another how to play the game.

[Blutters]

I got to watch my "teammate" with at least Torva run behind the ladder in our base and into the starting room as often as possible while someone with the mage set barrage spammed a third of my team. Granted, I was there, used Venge Group once, and solved the problem, but the amount that player could have helped would have been significant. Just one player can make a difference; winning comes down to how many game-changing players a team has. Some parallel to voter efficacy can be made but I really don't feel like it at the moment... :mellow:

 

And if you look back a few pages I partially agreed with you, Cheeze. But I'm really not liking these justifications, especially when they're laid out so selfishly and an easier and possibly better solution was that easy to think of.

 

Umm, Rocked, I had to press ctrl-f and search the page for evil. I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that that's what I'm saying.

[curtis95112]

Thing is, this conversation shouldn't even be happening.

 

Jagex shouldn't have made the main req for the completionist's cape an afkable one. It's naive to blame the players for afking. It's like putting trade limits in with inaccurate GE prices and expecting people to refrain from junk trading. What the heck did Jagex expect will happen?

[kidsman99]

[hide='Kidsman99's Post]

I have a question for the OP. If you were able to choose (which you aren't of course, but taken the thought that you were able to), would you prefer the requirement of the Ccape to be 'participating in 5k Castle wars games' or have it be, say, 'Win 2.5k Castle wars games'? In general, people will prefer option A, because less efford is required, only more time is required. You call option A an absurd requirement, but if Jagex had picked option B, the general crowd would have considered the requirement even more crazy, even though less time is required. You should be happy that Jagex has given you a requirement which is AFK-able, but don't take advantage by AFKing it fully. Put some effort in, show the creators of the minigame you are thankfull for the requirement being made relatively easy by playing the game it is supposed to be played, instead of finding the loopholes in any of the requirements or possibilities they give you.

 

They make this game while having a view of how the game should be played, and playing the game by not playing the game is a disrespectful way of showing 'gratitude' to it's creators. They don't HAVE to do anything for you, they could quite possibly also just agree to get rid of the Ccape in a couple of months. If they do, they don't need to apologise about it either, because it's their game. It's all about giving and taking both equally, only that way we can keep everyone happy. Don't blame your loafing on somebody else's actions (in this case, blaming jagex for the requirement), but instead, play the game at least partially and be happy you aren't required to actually win, because that would make the requirement much much harder.

[/hide]

You're saying I should be grateful to Jagex for deciding to "only" require 5000 Castle Wars games, since they could have made the requirement much more difficult...? No disrespect intended, but that is a terrible argument if I've ever seen one. I hope I'm misinterpreting your meaning, and please correct me if I am. :blink:

 

Let's do a bit of math: 5000 games multiplied by 25 minutes per game = 125000 minutes or approximately 87 straight days spent playing Castle Wars. Is this not ridiculous? I don't believe most Skills even require that much time to be leveled from 1-99 by experienced players. After reading this, can you honestly tell me that requiring players to dedicate that much time to a single minigame is reasonable? And yet you say I should be grateful... It truly is funny in a depressing sort of way.

 

Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but after reading your post, you strike me as the type of person who considers Jagex (as the game developer) to be infallible. You don't necessarily have to take my word for it, but that can't be farther from the truth. And to answer your question (at least in part), I believe requiring 500 games would have been ideal. Sorry, but I'm not interested in answering/arguing over hypothetical questions, so I've just given you my opinion on what the requirement should have been.

--------------------

 

Im not saying Jagex is infallible, in fact, I am as far opposed from that as possible. I'm saying however, that Jagex is a monopolist about the game, and that they can do whatever the hell they want with it, including its content. They have made this game easier over the years simply to satisfy customers, even though they weren't required to do so. They could have made getting the Ccape much harder than they have now, but they didn't. You can say achieving the Ccape is somewhat like finishing the game, completing the game and being done with it. In some games, it's easy to complete the game, and in others (like MMORPGs) it's almost impossible. They give you an option to make you feel like you finished the game, and give it this requirement. Yet you take the easy way through to get to 'the end'. It's not the way Jagex wants to see you get to the end, and that you should keep in mind. Because if Jagex doesn't like the way we're playing the game, they're just a snap from a finger away to changing it all, making it even harder for us. That's the power they possess, and being gentle by giving you this opportunity as they are, I feel like you shouldnt abuse it to the max, as with it you abuse their trust on how you should be playing the game.

 

And besides, you don't feel like answering/arguing over a hypothetical question, but you do want to make a hypothetical requirement, which can yet again been seen as something we could be arguing over. Makes me somewhat believe that you try to avoid hard cases and create easy ones simply for your own benefit, which shouldnt be the main issue here.

[Fire_Hawk154]

Personally, I can't be proud on something I didn't work for. Would you be proud on a 99 skill if you used a bot to gain it? I guess not. So how could you be proud on a cape you gained by afking?

Besides, leeching, afking and botting are not respected ways to gain things. I'd better be a respected player than a disrespected completionist.

But well, that's just my opinion ;)

[Shadiochao]

I don't really have a problem with it in certain minigames. In Castlewars for example, there is no benefit for actually playing properly, unless you enjoy it. I don't care if some random people don't get their tickets, but even if I don't do anything I can still get what I came for (games played).

 

I do think it would be a problem in games like Pest Control though, because losing means nobody gets anything at all. Maybe the CW problem could have been avoided if the cape required you to own at least 2.5k tickets, but it's many months too late to change that now.

 

I leeched 30-35 games yesterday in Castlewars to see what kind of abuse the poster was talking about, but nobody said anything to me about it. The Zamorak team was almost consistently winning too despite all the leechers, although that might be why nobody flamed me.

[Kaida23]

Yes I have done activities that I did not like but I did not afk them. I have no problem with loafers personally but I simply do not understand why anyone would afk. If the activity is so boring that you have to afk then why do it in the first place. Maybe I am just not an afk type of person. I like to enjoy the game than chase after achievements by afking. But that is just the way I play, I do not want to impose my playing style on them.

You've never afked in Runescape before? That seems kind of strange, actually. Afking (or at least semi-afking) is a very common method of making skill-grinding less tedious, especially when fishing, cooking, woodcutting, mining at lrc, smelting ore, or training combat against aggressive monsters (none of which require much input/attention from the player). If you really don't afk on occasion, then I believe that actually puts you in the minority of players, TBH.

 

So yes, afking makes grinding easier, and cutting down on the grind as much as possible is particularly important if your goal is a long-term one. I enjoy the game, by the way, even if I sometimes have to do thinks I dislike in order to accomplish my goals. I'm sure you can relate.

It may be a common method of training, but one that is against the rules...

 

6. What is AFK training?

 

AFK training is Away From Keyboard training. While you are playing on our games, you must be at the computer. Away-from-keyboard training is not allowed, and you should log out when you leave the computer.

Before you ask, no I've never done it. Maybe I'm just paranoid that they'll bring back the dangerous randoms, but I'm always at the game screen watching what's going on and interacting with the other players. The closest I come to it is putting on the TV or a movie as background noise while I play.

[Dietrich]

Im not saying Jagex is infallible, in fact, I am as far opposed from that as possible. I'm saying however, that Jagex is a monopolist about the game, and that they can do whatever the hell they want with it, including its content. They have made this game easier over the years simply to satisfy customers, even though they weren't required to do so.

This was my point - just because they can do anything they want doesn't mean that they always make the right decisions. You don't appear to have a problem with Jagex doing whatever the hell they want, so why then are you so interested in how I play Castle Wars? I'm not breaking any rules by loafing there, yet you and several others seem to have a problem with it because I don't share your opinion on it's supposed validity. And by the way, Jagex has been making the game easier for their own gain; by doing so, they attract more new customers, but alienate veteran players at the same time. It's not like they've honestly looked through player feedback and decided to start doing this out of the goodness of their own hearts - it's a calculated business move.

 

Because if Jagex doesn't like the way we're playing the game, they're just a snap from a finger away to changing it all, making it even harder for us. That's the power they possess, and being gentle by giving you this opportunity as they are, I feel like you shouldnt abuse it to the max, as with it you abuse their trust on how you should be playing the game.

Certainly, if they wish to act on this, then they are free to do so. Have you ever heard of emergent gameplay? There's plenty of it in RS, and ultimately, Jagex's "intentions" mean very little. Not everything goes according to their plans.

 

Concerning how I'm supposedly taking the easy way out on earning the Comp (t), I strongly disagree with you. It may be the "completionist" cape, but that doesn't mean that everyone who wants one should be forced to meet all of the requirements the hard way. Plenty of people take short-cuts (not through macroing or breaking the rules...) to level skills faster or more efficiently; should they be criticised for "taking the easy way out" as well? Whether or not players decide to loaf at Castle Wars for the requirement shouldn't (and doesn't) matter, as they'll have to dedicate the same amount of ingame time regardless.

 

And besides, you don't feel like answering/arguing over a hypothetical question, but you do want to make a hypothetical requirement, which can yet again been seen as something we could be arguing over. Makes me somewhat believe that you try to avoid hard cases and create easy ones simply for your own benefit, which shouldnt be the main issue here.

What? How is my opinion on what the Castle Wars requirement should be in any way "hypothetical"? That isn't what the word means. And what "hard cases" am I avoiding, exactly? I don't understand what you mean by that.

--------------------

 

 

Personally, I can't be proud on something I didn't work for. Would you be proud on a 99 skill if you used a bot to gain it? I guess not. So how could you be proud on a cape you gained by afking?

Besides, leeching, afking and botting are not respected ways to gain things. I'd better be a respected player than a disrespected completionist.

But well, that's just my opinion ;)

Please don't lump loafers in with macroers. The two are completely different.

 

And yes, I can very clearly see that it's just your opinion. The statement "afking and botting are not respected ways to gain things" is quite obviously your opinion on the matter, as it is not what all players think about it - not by a long-shot. I'm surprised that there have been a few people here claiming to be against afking... what do you all do while fishing monkfish, for example? Just stare at the game-screen while your inventory slowly fills up? :unsure:

--------------------

 

 

I leeched 30-35 games yesterday in Castlewars to see what kind of abuse the poster was talking about, but nobody said anything to me about it. The Zamorak team was almost consistently winning too despite all the leechers, although that might be why nobody flamed me.

You should try using a designated world (I personally use w24) if you haven't already. I don't think a single game goes by without at least one player coming upstairs to bother us. And yeah, the abuse is much more common if the team happens to be losing, understandably.

--------------------

 

 

It may be a common method of training, but one that is against the rules...

Don't give me that. Any half-way knowledgeable player would know that the colloquial meaning of "afking" isn't literally being away from the keyboard while logged on in RS. People don't say (for example) that they're going to afk mine at the lrc, and actually mean that they intend on heading to the caverns, start mining, tape a key down on their keyboard, and then walk away from the computer to do something else entirely. "Afking" in this sense commonly means that once the person starts mining, they'll do something like switch to another tab on their browser and watch a movie (or do practically anything else on their computer) and occasionally check back on their RS avatar's progress.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if you knew this, actually, since you've already tried to twist my words once before in an attempt to discredit me (when you falsely accused me of casting an "aspersion" on your character). I'd appreciate it if you would respond to my last post addressing you, by the way. If you don't have the time or inclination to do this, then at least quit trying to subtly defame me, please. As I said before, I make a point of not insulting my opponents in a debate, and I certainly have not ever broken the Runescape rules.

[Kaida23]

Please don't lump loafers in with macroers. The two are completely different.

They both expect to gain rewards from not doing anything, so they seem to be fairly similar to me. The only difference I see is that one is blatantly against the rules while the other is subjective (which I address below).

 

And yes, I can very clearly see that it's just your opinion. The statement "afking and botting are not respected ways to gain things" is quite obviously your opinion on the matter, as it is not what all players think about it - not by a long-shot. I'm surprised that there have been a few people here claiming to be against afking... what do you all do while fishing monkfish, for example? Just stare at the game-screen while your inventory slowly fills up? :unsure:

Actually, yes. That's exactly what I do while I fish, woodcut or train Smithing in the Artisan's Workshop. That, along with chat with my clanmates and the other players around me.

 

 

It may be a common method of training, but one that is against the rules...

Don't give me that. Any half-way knowledgeable player would know that the colloquial meaning of "afking" isn't literally being away from the keyboard while logged on in RS. People don't say (for example) that they're going to afk mine at the lrc, and actually mean that they intend on heading to the caverns, start mining, tape a key down on their keyboard, and then walk away from the computer to do something else entirely. "Afking" in this sense commonly means that once the person starts mining, they'll do something like switch to another tab on their browser and watch a movie (or do practically anything else on their computer) and occasionally check back on their RS avatar's progress.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if you knew this, actually, since you've already tried to twist my words once before in an attempt to discredit me (when you falsely accused me of casting an "aspersion" on your character). I'd appreciate it if you would respond to my last post addressing you, by the way. If you don't have the time or inclination to do this, then at least quit trying to subtly defame me, please. As I said before, I make a point of not insulting my opponents in a debate, and I certainly have not ever broken the Runescape rules.

Yes, I'm aware of the colloquial meaning of the term. I'm also aware of that Jagex does not mean literally walking away from your computer while AFK'ing. I'm willing to grant that several of the rules are gross generalizations and poorly worded, but am I the only one to see that rule as referring to not being in control of your character at *all* times? Leaving the game window to do other things while your character sits there unattended seems, to me at least, to be exactly what this rule is trying to prevent. Heck, there used to be randoms specifically to prevent exactly that. Are there several skills and games that allow this to be done? Yes, but that doesn't mean it should be done. I'm not trying to twist anyone's words; you're the one who is championing this form of playing, I'm merely pointing out how I think that it's wrong.

 

I'll grant that perhaps "aspersion" wasn't quite what I was reaching for, but you did make a general assumption about my character and how I do things based, seemingly, on nothing more than how you do things. If what I said offended, and it seems to, then I apologize.

 

I'm also curious as to which post you want me to reply to. You haven't posted anything replying to something I've said that I felt warranted a response since page 2.

[kidsman99]

Im not saying Jagex is infallible, in fact, I am as far opposed from that as possible. I'm saying however, that Jagex is a monopolist about the game, and that they can do whatever the hell they want with it, including its content. They have made this game easier over the years simply to satisfy customers, even though they weren't required to do so.

This was my point - just because they can do anything they want doesn't mean that they always make the right decisions. You don't appear to have a problem with Jagex doing whatever the hell they want, so why then are you so interested in how I play Castle Wars?

 

Because Jagex isn't working in a team, and you are. You take advantage (not tickets, but the games) of others staying there and waste their time. As much as you expect them to stay there until the end of the game, they expect you to participate, yet you don't.

 

I'm not breaking any rules by loafing there, yet you and several others seem to have a problem with it because I don't share your opinion on it's supposed validity. And by the way, Jagex has been making the game easier for their own gain; by doing so, they attract more new customers, but alienate veteran players at the same time. It's not like they've honestly looked through player feedback and decided to start doing this out of the goodness of their own hearts - it's a calculated business move. [/Quote]

 

Yet still a move they did not require to make, they chose to do that.

Because if Jagex doesn't like the way we're playing the game, they're just a snap from a finger away to changing it all, making it even harder for us. That's the power they possess, and being gentle by giving you this opportunity as they are, I feel like you shouldnt abuse it to the max, as with it you abuse their trust on how you should be playing the game.

Certainly, if they wish to act on this, then they are free to do so. Have you ever heard of emergent gameplay? There's plenty of it in RS, and ultimately, Jagex's "intentions" mean very little. Not everything goes according to their plans.

 

Concerning how I'm supposedly taking the easy way out on earning the Comp (t), I strongly disagree with you. It may be the "completionist" cape, but that doesn't mean that everyone who wants one should be forced to meet all of the requirements the hard way. Plenty of people take short-cuts (not through macroing or breaking the rules...) to level skills faster or more efficiently; should they be criticised for "taking the easy way out" as well? Whether or not players decide to loaf at Castle Wars for the requirement shouldn't (and doesn't) matter, as they'll have to dedicate the same amount of ingame time regardless.[/Quote] I dont criticise them simply because they at least put SOME effort in, opposed to your loafing.

 

And besides, you don't feel like answering/arguing over a hypothetical question, but you do want to make a hypothetical requirement, which can yet again been seen as something we could be arguing over. Makes me somewhat believe that you try to avoid hard cases and create easy ones simply for your own benefit, which shouldnt be the main issue here.

What? How is my opinion on what the Castle Wars requirement should be in any way "hypothetical"? That isn't what the word means. And what "hard cases" am I avoiding, exactly? I don't understand what you mean by that.[/Quote]

looking over the whole topic, as soon as you get something which sound correct to almost anyone, you counter by calling it irrelevant instead of thinking what the other person is trying to say with the examples given.

 

In general, I consider your ideas to be selfish, and see that you take other people who take this game seriously as a joke and laugh away the comments they make about disagreeing with you. If you really were to have the same mindset in real life as you have ingame, I doubt you will achieve much. And if you say you don't have the same mindset in real life, I wonder what's the difference (without the 'it's just a game' argument, as I'm refering to social interaction with others here.)

 

--------------------

[Dietrich]

Please don't lump loafers in with macroers. The two are completely different.

They both expect to gain rewards from not doing anything, so they seem to be fairly similar to me. The only difference I see is that one is blatantly against the rules while the other is subjective (which I address below).

You may not like loafers, but that doesn't mean they're magically breaking the rules just because you disagree with their methods. And no, it is not subjective, no matter how much you wish it would be. Loafing is well within the rules, while macroing clearly is not. I find it funny that you've been trying to bring up literal afking, which I don't think I've heard of people actually doing since training combat at Bandits with a Guthans' set was popular years and years ago, hahah.

 

And yes, I can very clearly see that it's just your opinion. The statement "afking and botting are not respected ways to gain things" is quite obviously your opinion on the matter, as it is not what all players think about it - not by a long-shot. I'm surprised that there have been a few people here claiming to be against afking... what do you all do while fishing monkfish, for example? Just stare at the game-screen while your inventory slowly fills up? :unsure:

Actually, yes. That's exactly what I do while I fish, woodcut or train Smithing in the Artisan's Workshop. That, along with chat with my clanmates and the other players around me.

No offense intended, but you're making it obvious that you're a F2P player with relatively low skills. Afking to cut down on skill grinding is pretty much a necessity for high-level members (especially so for the type of player looking to obtain the Completionist Cape). I feel that if you were to become P2P and even try to start grinding all of your stats to the level cap, then you would understand why I'm confused about people not afking when they have the chance to.

 

Yes, I'm aware of the colloquial meaning of the term. I'm also aware of that Jagex does not mean literally walking away from your computer while AFK'ing. I'm willing to grant that several of the rules are gross generalizations and poorly worded, but am I the only one to see that rule as referring to not being in control of your character at *all* times? Leaving the game window to do other things while your character sits there unattended seems, to me at least, to be exactly what this rule is trying to prevent. Heck, there used to be randoms specifically to prevent exactly that. Are there several skills and games that allow this to be done? Yes, but that doesn't mean it should be done. I'm not trying to twist anyone's words; you're the one who is championing this form of playing, I'm merely pointing out how I think that it's wrong.

 

I'll grant that perhaps "aspersion" wasn't quite what I was reaching for, but you did make a general assumption about my character and how I do things based, seemingly, on nothing more than how you do things. If what I said offended, and it seems to, then I apologize.

 

I'm also curious as to which post you want me to reply to. You haven't posted anything replying to something I've said that I felt warranted a response since page 2.

No, this is where you're wrong. The rule you quoted said: "While you are playing on our games, you must be at the computer." So yes, Jagex does mean that you can't literally walk away from your computer - doing so is quite literally being "Away From Keyboard". So long as players are still at their computers while Runescape is running and their accounts are logged in - even if the RS tab is minimised and the players are doing something else on their computers - then it is completely fine. There is no rule prohibiting the colloquial act of "afking". This isn't a case of poor wording on Jagex's part or some grey area in the rules; this is you wishing it was true, so that you could validate your feelings that loafers are somehow "wrong" simply because they don't share your playstyle.

 

As for the posts, I was referring to:

http://forum.tip.it/topic/294405-loafing-in-minigames/page__st__20__p__4864818#entry4864818

http://forum.tip.it/topic/294405-loafing-in-minigames/page__st__20__p__4864908#entry4864908

 

I realise it's a lot to reply to point-for-point, so I'm not expecting you to actually take that kind of time. It just seems to me that you ignore my responses and move on to other points each time you post.

--------------------

 

 

Because Jagex isn't working in a team, and you are. You take advantage (not tickets, but the games) of others staying there and waste their time. As much as you expect them to stay there until the end of the game, they expect you to participate, yet you don't.

If you want to be technical, Jagex does maintain a working partnership with their playerbase - not that it particularly matters. And as I've said many, many times now, I do not expect anything of the active players in the CW games. Even if they all were to leave or stop playing, it would not effect me, since there would still be loafers joining both teams for the games to start/conclude as normal. I would argue, by the way, that Castle Wars players are wasting their time anyway if they're only playing for tickets. Castle Wars games take a long time, and losers aren't rewarded for their efforts at all (while winners receive a paltry 2 tickets). None of the reward items are even that useful, TBH.

 

The other players can "expect" for me to participate all they like, but it still doesn't change the fact that we don't share the same goal. They're (presumably) looking to have fun and collect tickets, while I'm just trying to reach 5000 games and get the hell out of CW as quickly and with the least amount of stress as possible. You can claim that the objective of each CW game is to capture more flags than the opposing team, but that is no longer necessarily the case - not since the Completionist (t) requirement was made. The requirement creates a new objective for players wanting to obtain the cape, and expending their energy/focus on trying to win each game doesn't help them in meeting this new objective.

 

Yet still a move they did not require to make, they chose to do that.

So... what exactly is your point then? That Jagex can do whatever they want with the game so long as they don't break real-world laws, but RS players somehow aren't allowed to do whatever they want, even if they're not breaking any of the Runescape rules? That certainly seems strange to me. :lol:

 

I dont criticise them simply because they at least put SOME effort in, opposed to your loafing.

Believe it or not, I am a high-level Runescape player with a social life and responsibilities IRL (!) Shocking, I know.

 

Please excuse the sarcasm, but I hate that some people automatically assume that I'm doing absolutely nothing to meet the Castle Wars requirement. I'm not macroing, so I have to dedicate my own time to complete this. The months I'll have to spend at Castle Wars could be better used elsewhere, so I am making a sacrifice (quite a substantial one, BTW) in order to satisfy the requirement. Am I putting in as much effort into these games as active players are? No, but then again, I do not share their goal of winning, so it would be foolish of me to make an even greater sacrifice of myself for no benefit.

 

looking over the whole topic, as soon as you get something which sound correct to almost anyone, you counter by calling it irrelevant instead of thinking what the other person is trying to say with the examples given.

 

In general, I consider your ideas to be selfish, and see that you take other people who take this game seriously as a joke and laugh away the comments they make about disagreeing with you. If you really were to have the same mindset in real life as you have ingame, I doubt you will achieve much. And if you say you don't have the same mindset in real life, I wonder what's the difference (without the 'it's just a game' argument, as I'm refering to social interaction with others here.)

I suspect that you've only been skimming through my past posts then, at best. AFAIK, I've only called the actions taken by active players during CW games as "irrelevant" to me - not any argument presented by people in this thread (except for maybe a hypothetical question which had no debatable merit). If you believe that I have ignored or blown off someone's post, then please feel free to quote it in your next post and let me know. I don't think I've shied away from anyone's arguments, as shown in the many (and often quite lengthy) posts I've made in this thread, TBH.

 

Being "selfish" carries the connotation that I only care about myself, and that simply isn't true. Do I generally look after my own interests first? Of course! The vast majority of people do, and I'd wager that most of the people who object to this are lying to themselves and denying human nature. Truly altruistic people might as well be be a new form of mythological creature, IMO. Anyway, you really shouldn't exaggerate, implying that I'm somehow a "bad person" who doesn't care about others just because I loaf in Castle Wars, lol.

 

Where do I say that I consider other people who take the game seriously to be a joke? Now you're just putting words in my mouth. :unsure: If I did that, then I'd essentially be insulting myself as well, considering how I take the game fairly seriously. Would I bother spending so much time trying to obtain the Completionist Cape if I didn't care much for RS...? You obviously have no clue what I think, so don't continue making baseless accusations, please.

[Kaida23]

No offense intended, but you're making it obvious that you're a F2P player with relatively low skills. Afking to cut down on skill grinding is pretty much a necessity for high-level members (especially so for the type of player looking to obtain the Completionist Cape). I feel that if you were to become P2P and even try to start grinding all of your stats to the level cap, then you would understand why I'm confused about people not afking when they have the chance to.

I'm sorry, but how, exactly, do my levels (or my membership status for that matter) factor into my opinion of whether or not I think either AFK'ing or loafing are okay? Now you are casting an aspersion on my character (both in-game and IRL).

 

No, this is where you're wrong. The rule you quoted said: "While you are playing on our games, you must be at the computer." So yes, Jagex does mean that you can't literally walk away from your computer - doing so is quite literally being "Away From Keyboard". So long as players are still at their computers while Runescape is running and their accounts are logged in - even if the RS tab is minimised and the players are doing something else on their computers - then it is completely fine. There is no rule prohibiting the colloquial act of "afking". This isn't a case of poor wording on Jagex's part or some grey area in the rules; this is you wishing it was true, so that you could validate your feelings that loafers are somehow "wrong" simply because they don't share your playstyle.

And you helped write that rule, did you? How else could you be so certain of what Jagex meant when it was made. Violations of being against "the spirit of the game" without being against the literal letter of the law have come up before, so it seems to me that even they aren't quite sure what is and isn't against the rules anymore. Things like this can certainly be looked at from different points of view without being quite so rigid. After all, lawyers make entire careers out of interpretations of law.

 

I realise it's a lot to reply to point-for-point, so I'm not expecting you to actually take that kind of time. It just seems to me that you ignore my responses and move on to other points each time you post.

I simply didn't respond to either of them as the only thing in them that I would have responded to was commented on first by OrTradeMe and you responded with the same responses you've been giving the entire thread.

 

Being "selfish" carries the connotation that I only care about myself, and that simply isn't true. Do I generally look after my own interests first? Of course! The vast majority of people do, and I'd wager that most of the people who object to this are lying to themselves and denying human nature. Truly altruistic people might as well be be a new form of mythological creature, IMO. Anyway, you really shouldn't exaggerate, implying that I'm somehow a "bad person" who doesn't care about others just because I loaf in Castle Wars, lol.

In this case, I'm afraid, you are being selfish; you are acting for your own gain with no thought of the people around you. If that's not selfish, then what is? Also, Is it so hard to believe that there are people in the world, and even in this community, that are willing to put in the effort to do things the right way, to put others first and not always look for shortcuts?

[kidsman99]

Your arrogance and stubbornness are so strongly present in all of your posts, it really doesnt have much use to continue arguing on this topic as you're not even thinking about changing your attitude about the matter. It tires me and frustrates me, and I really can't use that during my exam period so I'm going to end here. You feel the Time dedication is enough dedication already, but you fail to see the point of social interaction in this game, and that shocks me. But yea, I am off, as I said already, so have fun loafing in Castle Wars as I dont think anyone here on this topic will ever change your mind.

[Fire_Hawk154]

The journey is more important than the destination. Some players fail to see that :-#

[pakalolo_mon]

Simple comparison between bots and leechs:

 

First question that needs to be asked: Why are people who bot "bad"? Simple answer is because they get things (experience, items, etc..) without effort from the player while other players get the same things due to their efforts.

 

What do these "loafers" do? They get things with little to no effort from the player.

 

Hmm...

 

 

The worst thing about team-based minigames is that you have to count on other people who are potentially idiots. At least with solo minigames when you lose it's entirely your fault and if you decide to slack off you lose like you should.

[Butt_Snakes]

I fully intend to loaf around in Cwars to 5,000 games if it ever comes to that. If I played the game with full attention for like... I think it's 96 days for the 5,000 games + waiting room time... anyway I'd be disappointed as hell in myself.

[Crossed_Body]

Simple comparison between bots and leechs:

 

First question that needs to be asked: Why are people who bot "bad"? Simple answer is because they get things (experience, items, etc..) without effort from the player while other players get the same things due to their efforts.

 

What do these "loafers" do? They get things with little to no effort from the player.

 

Hmm...

 

 

The worst thing about team-based minigames is that you have to count on other people who are potentially idiots. At least with solo minigames when you lose it's entirely your fault and if you decide to slack off you lose like you should.

Actually, bots are better than loafers in minigames. Loafers do nothing, bots contribute to some extent to the team.

 

So, loafers, how does it feel being worse than a botter?

[curtis95112]

Simple comparison between bots and leechs:

 

First question that needs to be asked: Why are people who bot "bad"? Simple answer is because they get things (experience, items, etc..) without effort from the player while other players get the same things due to their efforts.

 

What do these "loafers" do? They get things with little to no effort from the player.

 

Hmm...

 

 

The worst thing about team-based minigames is that you have to count on other people who are potentially idiots. At least with solo minigames when you lose it's entirely your fault and if you decide to slack off you lose like you should.

Actually, bots are better than loafers in minigames. Loafers do nothing, bots contribute to some extent to the team.

 

So, loafers, how does it feel being worse than a botter?

 

Add the fact that the botters are using their time better. Infinitesimal risk of getting banned, nonzero contribution to the team, and you can be doing something else entirely!

 

Jagex seriously messed up on this one (no surprises there).

 

Disclaimer: I do not endorse botting.