Nifflin Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 A national identification number or National Identity/Insurance Card number is used by the governments of many countries as a means of tracking their citizens, permanent residents, and temporary residents for the purposes of work, taxation, government benefits, health care, and other governmentally-related functions. Sometimes, the number will appear on an identity card issued by a country. In the United States we have a social security number, however there is no centralized system that links it to everything else like a National Identity Number would. I personally think it would be good, especially for limiting illegal aliens who are a drain on resources. As part of the social contract the government needs to know that the people it is providing services for are actually citizens. A National ID could help centralize this sort of information. For example in order to register at a public highschool or get instate tuition in college a person could be required to present their national ID, same with getting treated at a hospital, or even obtaining a driving licence. What do people think about United States adopting such a system? Do people in other countries find it to be successful or limiting? What do other Americans think? PM me in game anytime It's a lot easier then that for an idiot to sound smart on the internet. That's exactly what you're doing right now... just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giordano Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 limiting illegal aliens who are a drain on resources. register at a public highschool instate tuition in college getting treated at a hospital obtaining a driving licence. :wall: They already need a SS number for a lot of those, what makes this ID any different? "The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifflin Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 Correct me if I'm wrong but you don't need an SS number for highschool registration, lowered tuition or hospital visits. The difference is mainly centralization and limiting benefits illegal aliens would receive from the state. PM me in game anytime It's a lot easier then that for an idiot to sound smart on the internet. That's exactly what you're doing right now... just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sees_all1 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 US Government rule of thumb:Anything you let them mess with, they'll f- up. 99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me! ♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thoughtHave some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪♪♪ And I'm not doneAnd I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giordano Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Correct me if I'm wrong but you don't need an SS number for highschool registration, lowered tuition or hospital visits.As I said, a lot of those you do. Government grants require SS numbers, and medical insurance you need SS numbers. An educated workforce is the best capital this country can easily afford and we're throwing it away over petty physical differences. "The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifflin Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 Let me make it clear, I'm not against immigrants, I love them. I just think all immigrants should go through the same process to get into the country. But that's a bit offtopic... Grants don't require SS numbers in California anymore. Neither does highschool. Hospitals are required to treat people without insurance, they mainly just need an ID. It has actually become an issue with hospitals running out of funds and shutting down due to having to treat so many people without insurance. PM me in game anytime It's a lot easier then that for an idiot to sound smart on the internet. That's exactly what you're doing right now... just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giordano Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Let me make it clear, I'm not against immigrants, I love them. I just think all immigrants should go through the same process to get into the country. But that's a bit offtopic...Its not off-topic, its relevant. The points of a National ID is for (1) Identifying you and (2) Proving your citizenship. Thus it is very relevant. This National ID will do nothing but fuel more anti-immigration propaganda. The benefit is a more centralized system, but I don't understand why we can't do that with Social security already. "The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 You are aware in order to obtain a drivers license most states (if not all post 9/11) require you have a social security number to get one? Your profile says located in Jordan....so not too sure if you do knowTo get instate tuition - thees numerous ways for American citizens to beat the system as is - all you need is proof at place of residence usually (NC is 3-4 years) and a letter from the owner of the house if it's not yours. "Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."Abraham Lincoln Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obfuscator Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 From a logistics standpoint centralization is almost always a good idea. Working for the government myself (albeit municipal) decentralization creates huge logistical problems. "It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Is_Great Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I know that China has this system, and we all know American's opinions on China... In all seriousness, theres plenty ways to identify someone, not neccessarily a national ID system is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furah Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I hate centralisation and love anonymity, so I dislike the sound of this immensely. Especially since as time goes on you'll be using it for more and more things. Correct me if I'm wrong but you don't need an SS number for highschool registration, lowered tuition or hospital visits. The difference is mainly centralization and limiting benefits illegal aliens would receive from the state.These ones would be so because minors go to highschool, and because foreigners can also receive healthcare. Steam | PM me for BBM PIN Nine naked men is a technological achievement. Quote of 2013. PCGamingWiki - Let's fix PC gaming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangeor Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I hate centralisation and love anonymity If you love anonymity, why do you have a link to your facebook page in your signature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orpheus Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I hate centralisation and love anonymity If you love anonymity, why do you have a link to your facebook page in your signature? Because big whoop. No one cares if he has a facebook or not and even then it doesn't help anyone anyway. And you can set that stuff to be private, so it's a moot point. I was going to eat hot dogs for dinner tonight. I think I will settle for cereal. OPEN WIDE HERE COMES THE HELICOPTER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangeor Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Because a private facebook account is totally synonymous with anonymity :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orpheus Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Because a private facebook account is totally synonymous with anonymity :rolleyes:Except this is entirely a moot point seeing how it's anonymity from the government and they've got better things to worry about unless otherwise noted, which is a mess within itself. So end this line of thought. I was going to eat hot dogs for dinner tonight. I think I will settle for cereal. OPEN WIDE HERE COMES THE HELICOPTER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 He loves relative anonymity from the government? Anyway, I find a national ID number somewhat repulsive, but see the clear benefits it has. I don't see how it would dissuade illegal immigrants. Rather, for the US, creating and rolling out a nation identification system would be almost imposible DUE to the sheer amount of illegal immigrants. They would still be pouring into US by the droves, and just because you identify someone does not mean it will stop them leaving, or stop more from coming back in. I find, rather, that you wouldn't exactly be able to identify these illegal aliens anymore than right now. Sure, there would be a big void where a half of California is supposed to go, but whether the US would chase these guys down anymore than they do already is doubtful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furah Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I hate centralisation and love anonymity If you love anonymity, why do you have a link to your facebook page in your signature?Just because I love anonymity doesn't mean I always wish to be anonymous. Choice is something that people should always have access too. Steam | PM me for BBM PIN Nine naked men is a technological achievement. Quote of 2013. PCGamingWiki - Let's fix PC gaming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will H Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Discovering that the US's Social Security Number system isn't centralised amuses me. Basically, you're telling me that it's broken to the point that you need to start over. That's going to cost a lot, but it's pretty important that you have that system in place for taxation purposes. Isn't it a bit of a delusion that people think that they can get away with being anonymous from their own government? If the system allowed for that, how could you make sure people are taxed fairly? ~ W ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obfuscator Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 It's delusional that people think they are anonymous from their own government. "It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furah Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 With the way Nifflin is making it sound, you'd need that ID to pretty much do anything. Why I need to say to the government "Hey, I've been to the hospital because I injured myself and just got given some pain killers that are sold over the counter and anyone can get." is beyond me. Steam | PM me for BBM PIN Nine naked men is a technological achievement. Quote of 2013. PCGamingWiki - Let's fix PC gaming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sees_all1 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 It's delusional that people think they are anonymous from their own government.This guy seemed to be pretty successful at it. 99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me! ♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thoughtHave some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪♪♪ And I'm not doneAnd I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Sounds expensive. No thanks. Last.Fm My Bloggy Proud to have served on Tip.it Crew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das1330 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Sounds expensive. No thanks. Economic problems really are not much of an issue in this case because, put simply, such IDs already exist. The only difference is that as it stands today there are 51 different issuing organizations rather then just 1. Indeed, it would likely be cheaper to have just one identification system due to economies of scale yielding substantial efficiencies in the administration of the program. It's delusional that people think they are anonymous from their own government.This guy seemed to be pretty successful at it. He was also a certified genius with a degree from Harvard and a PhD from Michigan, in addition to substantial resources. Hardly a practical example to follow for 99.9% of the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aspeeder Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Sounds expensive. No thanks. Economic problems really are not much of an issue in this case because, put simply, such IDs already exist. The only difference is that as it stands today there are 51 different issuing organizations rather then just 1. Indeed, it would likely be cheaper to have just one identification system due to economies of scale yielding substantial efficiencies in the administration of the program.While economies of scale would probably play a significant factor, the insane amount of paperwork and bureaucracy needed to traverse federal and the various state requirements would probably also cause many problems. I'm not qualified to say which factor will overpower the other by any means, but considering the size and complexity of legal structures in America it's not an insignificant factor. http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww6/aspeeder/Siggy_zpsewaiux2t.png 99 Strength since 6/02/10 99 Attack since 9/19/10 99 Constitution since 10/03/10 99 Defense since 3/14/11 99 Slayer since 8/30/11 99 Summoning since 9/10/11 99 Ranged since 09/18/11 99 Magic since 11/12/11 99 Prayer since 11/15/11 99 Herblore since 3/29/12 99 Firemaking since 5/15/12 99 Smithing since 10/04/12 99 Crafting since 9/16/13 99 Agility since 9/23/13 99 Dungeoneering since 1/1/14 99 Fishing since 2/4/14 99 Mining since 2/28/14 99 Farming since 6/04/14 99 Cooking since 6/11/14 99 Runecrafting since 10/10/14 9 Fletching since 11/11/14 99 Thieving since 11/14/14 99 Woodcutting since 11/20/14 99 Construction since 12/03/14 99 Divination since 2/22/15 99 Hunter since 2/23/15 99 Invention since 01/20/17 99 Archaeology since 5/14/22Quest Point Cape since 08/20/09 Maxed since 2/23/15 Fire Cape since 02/27/13 Slayer: 3 Leaf-Bladed Swords, 8 Black Masks, 2 Hexcrests, 26 Granite Mauls, 5 Focus Sights, 32 Abyssal Whips, 9 Dark Bows, 1 Whip Vine, 3 Staffs of Light, 15 Polypore Sticks Dragon: 9 Draconic Visages, 7 Shield Left Halves, 20 Dragon Boots, 40 Dragon Med Helms, 8 Dragon Platelegs, 6 Dragon Spears, 20 Dragon Daggers, 5 Dragon Plateskirts, 1 Dragon Chainbody, 63 Off-hand Dragon Throwing Axes, 19 Dragon Longswords, 27 Dragon Maces, 1 Dragon Ward Treasure Trails: Saradomin Full Helm, Ranger Boots, Rune Body (t), Saradomin Vambraces, Various God Pages Misc:1 Onyx,1 Ahrim's Hood, 1 Guthan's Chainskirt, 1 Demon Slayer Boots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orpheus Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 It's delusional that people think they are anonymous from their own government.This guy seemed to be pretty successful at it. Then again, he also basically went insane from having a PhD in mathematics that quickly. I was going to eat hot dogs for dinner tonight. I think I will settle for cereal. OPEN WIDE HERE COMES THE HELICOPTER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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