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Some very interesting figures on magic defence bonus, spectral sucks.

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I recently became interested in the usefulness of magic defence vs magic accuracy because I have seen hybrids using spectral shields (and even people using pernix bodies for body on mage boxing), and people suggesting saggitaire bodies for their magic defence in dungeoneering.

 

All these figures are done with +120 magic bonus (normalish bridding mage accuracy) and 50 ice barrage casts are done.

 

0 magic defence 40 hits v 10 splashes 80% accuracy

50 magic defence 38 hits v 12 splashes 76% accuracy

80 magic defence 35 hits v 15 splashes 70% accuracy

100 magic defence 35 v 15 splashes (yes same as 80) 70% accuracy

120 magic defence 24 hits v 26 splashes, now this is exactly the same magic defence as the magic accuracy, and you instantly see a huge difference. 48% accuracy

140 magic defence 23 hits v 27 splashes 46% accuracy (also note thought you have to start using armadyl to reach this magic defence)

172 magic defence 23 hits v 27 splashes (again) 46% accuracy

 

What we can see from these quite small samples is that, magic defence matters almost nothing, until up to a certain point where it exceeds the magic accuracy of the person casting.

 

This means wearing a spectral for example will do almost nothing, you are much better off with a dfs, ely or divine (or even ddef/ rune kite). This is mainly due to any situations where you would be using spectral, it is likely that you will not be able to pass the point where you will make the caster start splashing without already being over it (ie if ranging and using dhide), whereas if you choose to use a spectral with your rune/barrows gear to bring you from +40 to +60, it is completely pointless (also you can see once you are over that point, added extra defence adds almost no bonus, so again spectral would be better replaced with an unholy book even... (or a decent melee defence shield).

 

Also means that wearing a sagittarian body would NOT be helpful (and certainly nothing below it would be), as the +100 magic defence is unlikely to help at all against level 113 mages or 133 shades.

 

At armadyl it is likely that the boss has a huge magic bonus (or a very small one), so again spectral is useless

 

Furthermore I have found these figures that someone else did on the usefulness of magic attack. (done on 100 magic defence). (will do my own some time)

 

90 magic attack = splash 50%

120 magic attack = splash 40%

140 magic attack = splash 33%

 

Showing that magic accuracy DOES make a huge difference .

We can draw from this therefore that an arcane will always be better than a spectral ( even an unholy book will be more useful than a spectral for maging.)

 

 

 

This was done rather quickly and I may have made errors, feel free to point out ways to improve this test.


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The numbers are quite interesting, just wish your sample size were a bit larger.


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Although, by your own data we now would need to know the magic attack bonuses of what we're fighting to know whether or not specral (or any other piece of magic defense equipment) would be useful. If the magic attack bonus for 113 mages or 133 shades is only at 90 then it would be very worthwhile to put yourself over that critical point with a sagitarian body, in addition to the accuracy bonus to your hex.


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someone with a saggiataire body could test this by standing and being hit by a mage for 100 hits with and without their body on, and also the same with a t7 body on.


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If the the test could be done at 119 magic defense vs 120 magic defense, under your theory they should have wildly different splash rates. I'm curious if that's the case.


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This reminds of the people saying that so much magic defense over a certain threshold makes Nex splash more often. Don't quote me on this though! :P


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that would probably be the case, but only if its possible to get over nex's magic attack (which i imagine would be really high)

Also remember in demonheim monsters have equipment bonuses as well.


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You really need a larger sample size, as otherwise your numbers could be skewed by the RNG.

 

For example, with 80% accuracy there's a 13.98% chance you get exactly 40 hits, like in your first test. However, if the accuracy were really 70%, there's a 3.86% chance of getting exactly 40 hits. Similarly, an accuracy of 90% has a 1.51% chance of getting exactly 40 hits. So while it's about 4 times more likely to have a real accuracy of 80% than 70%, and 10 times more likely to have an accuracy of 80% than 90%, your sample size is small enough that the probability that the real accuracy is something other than 80% is large enough to be significant.

 

To continue the example, lets say you did 400 casts and got 320 hits. This time, with 80% accuracy, there's a 4.98% chance of getting exactly 320 hits, with 70% accuracy a 0.0001687% chance of getting exactly 320 hits, and with 90% accuracy a 0.0000000963% chance of getting exactly 320 hits. While these probabilities are much smaller, the relative probabilities are much larger, 29500 times more likely to really be an accuracy of 80% compared to 70%, and 51000000 times more likely to be an accuracy of 80% compared to 90%.

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This is very interesting, i would like to see 100 magic attack vs 99 magic defense, and 100 magic attack vs 101 magic defense. Just to see if there really is a cut off point, or if it's a rapid curve once you reach that level.

 

I, like most runescape players, have always valued offense over defense, so this isn't going to change anything for me, but it's nice to know how right i am \:D/


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Is your thesis that after a certain point, each defence bonus from equips starts to matter less and less? If so, this is easily deducible from the formulas: the tipping point is when defence roll exceeds attack roll. If both target and caster have the same mage level, this should be exactly when mage attack of attack =mage defence of victim. Similarly, once attack roll exceeds defence roll, each additional attack bonus will matter less and less. Also your sample size is too small. To show a general trend via experiment, I would say probably 200 hits is a decent sample size, but to try and get actual accuracy numbers you would really need at least 1000, probably more. However in this case all of this is already answered by the attack roll, defence roll, and accuracy formulas. Also I don't see how any of this makes the mage defence of sag body useless.

 

EDIT: The thing I'm not sure of is where in the process the spell modifier is located. Since apparently different spells have slightly different accuracies, what spell could affect the tipping point slightly (or it might not if the modifier is at the end). Was tired when I wrote this post, forgot about this.


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Because wearing the body may well only provide the same difference in splashes as 0 vs 100 in my test, ie a very small reduction. Making wearing the body WORSE than wearing nothing even (in a magic only situation), because of the negative bonuses, and defiantly never worth using over a primal body.

 

Although you do raise an interesting point about melee defence as well, which I may look into.


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Thing is, I'm not sure I've ever seen the Sag Body recommended for someone who didn't have a Hex, in which case the Sag Body is actually adding a large amount of accuracy to said Hex.


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Another interesting thing to test out would be the amount of magic defense you naturally get just from your magic level since Jagex states that as your magic level increases, so too do your magical defenses.

 

If that's the case, then you may want to try doing tests using different magic levels as well so that your data will be even more complete. For example, have a person with 99 mage vs 99 mage, followed by 99 mage vs 90 mage and so on until you get a very good idea of the effects magic equipment defenses play while fighting.

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Another interesting thing to test out would be the amount of magic defense you naturally get just from your magic level since Jagex states that as your magic level increases, so too do your magical defenses.

 

If that's the case, then you may want to try doing tests using different magic levels as well so that your data will be even more complete. For example, have a person with 99 mage vs 99 mage, followed by 99 mage vs 90 mage and so on until you get a very good idea of the effects magic equipment defenses play while fighting.

 

2/3 mage, 1/3 defense

 

You're a bit late :P

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Another interesting thing to test out would be the amount of magic defense you naturally get just from your magic level since Jagex states that as your magic level increases, so too do your magical defenses.

 

If that's the case, then you may want to try doing tests using different magic levels as well so that your data will be even more complete. For example, have a person with 99 mage vs 99 mage, followed by 99 mage vs 90 mage and so on until you get a very good idea of the effects magic equipment defenses play while fighting.

 

2/3 mage, 1/3 defense

 

You're a bit late :P

 

Wasn't it 70% mage, 30% defence? That's what I remember...might just be some rounding error though...

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So this means what? What is better between them to use against dragons?

Against dragons, the ranking goes Virtus > Ahrim's > third-age mage, based on magic attack, or otherwise Bandos > Torva based on strength bonus if you are meleeing. Magic defence doesn't really matter on any kind of dragon since you can heal with soul split.


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Thank you so much. °.° I was somewhat confuzed about the topic, I did somewhat read 2 pages of replies.


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If there's interest in testing this further, you can save some time and money by using a weaker spell. Accuracy is independent of spell, so just use windrush or something. Barrage costs much more and will kill your testing partner more often, slowing down data recovery.

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I thik we concluded on the xpw thread that magic works like every other combat skill and the def roll is 66% magic and 33% defense.

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Accuracy is independent of spell, so just use windrush or something.

 

Is this something that has been proven? I have always been under the impression that lower level spells have a greater accuracy than higher leveled spells, although considering that the point of unlocking a higher leveled spell is to do more damage, having a higher splash rate would undo that so now that I think about it perhaps you are right. Would be nice to have that confirmed too though.

 

Anyone at all interested in testing this further? I mean the original topic, but perhaps also the theory about different level spells having different accuracies too.


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Magic level = attack

Spell = strength

 

And, yes, it has been proven.

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Ah okay, would still love to know more about magic attack vs magic defence, just because it would be so useful to know for playing castle wars.


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max magic defense roll = (max defense roll)/2 + 2(max magic roll)/3

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Is there a thread somewhere that might explain what you by that? Because right now I have no clue how to interpret what you just posted. =p


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