Investigating the Wise Old Man

[skreeran1]

Just found something I had never noticed before.

 

 

 

Sorry if this is blindingly obvious, for instance, my brother just said he had noticed that the first day he came to Draynor, and didn't tell me 'cause he thought I would have noticed it too:

 

 

 

[hide=Outside Draynor Bank]

 

OMG! What is this guard doing in the tree!?

 

 

[/hide]

[Randox]

Its only obvious if you keep your screen low or try to chop the tree. If you give him stew I think he gives you money, but not much. I think he is the least known part of the whole bank robery update. He might be more revealingon members but he seems to be insignificant to the investigation.

 

 

 

I might be home in a couple days, so I can pursue more intersting things.

 

 

 

What are the 4 symbols on the standing stones? I rember a broken sun, a swirl, and 3 waves.

[bloody_scife]

Sorry I dissapered. I read teh last 3 pages (but to save time i didnt go slow enough to understand). I'm in the hospital, have been for more than a week, but nothing to serious.

 

 

 

If I understand right there is now a lvl 2 man in Mortania, and someone belives to WOM sent him.

 

 

 

Someone posted alot of stuff we have seen before, and alot of people seem to have joined the thred, though we seem to be lacking content.

 

 

 

And am I also to understand that the history update was delayed, and TB@JT have said they will do the update this month? (I cant access the homepage from here because of the censor, but I can still get into the worlds :mrgreen: )

 

 

 

So if anyone wants to clear that up for me, I should be back in a few hours, and be on again tomarow.

 

 

 

Once im out of the hospital i'll see about doing the investigation of draynor and the surrounding area, i'll have plenty of free time.

 

 

 

Keep up the good work, those of you who contribute, and to those that don't...stop posting.

 

 

 

That is all for now.

 

 

 

This thred wasent fetured as hot topic was it? (cant access the tip.it main site either), because that would be a sad day for this thred....

 

 

 

hmmm, different filter, canty get on the rs servers :x

 

Glad to have you back :) .

 

 

 

We haven't really accomplished much. They still haven't updated the history page. We are all pretty anxious about it.

 

 

 

Oh, and I think someone posted that guy in the tree a long while back.

[Randox]

I think I rembered the 4th symbol. Sort of like an eye (a dot with curved line over it). I would guess that that might stand for the mind rune, but I cant be sure I didn't imagine the symbol so maby someone would like to confirm :-w

[Darkluniux]

Kill Him!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"A nice message from the Dharma initiation and the Hanso Foundation, good luck and Namaste."

 

[Xewleer]

yeah, it was an eye randox, I do believe we suggested a "horseman of the apocalypse thing" Pestilence (swamps?) famine (desert?) death (not mentioned, but might I suggest the wilderness?) and war (or the wilderness?)

 

 

 

and Darkluniux, what was up with the bunny?!?!

[Lenin64]

ok, i dont know if this has been posted yet, but...remember elfinlocks? She was in the bank, i believe, the WOM killed her for tha hat...anyways, im doing "the Great Brain Robbery", and elfinlocks is in it, alive and well, with her blue party hat! So she isnt really dead, per say, just was a little charred. Hope this helps in some way, shape or form.

[KCHughes]

One of those four might be Morytania also, maybe death. War ought to be in the Wilderness, since it held the worst war in Runescape history.

 

 

 

Elfinlocks was incinerated on the video, she was turned into ash, leaving no bones behind. If she was charred, then the magic must have been so powerful that it affected her after she respawned. I know it's been suggested that the whole robbery was staged, because the people WOM killed died the same way that the necromancer's wizards do, meaning that WOM just necromanced all those people, but the reappearance of Elfinlocks pretty much disproves that.

[1alebcay]

I'm back from lurking like Wenlock.

 

 

 

You know how you said war would be in the wildy. Look what I just found.

 

 

After all war spits things apart.

 

 

 

Just so you know this is roughly where your coordinates form the north east corner of the square.

 

[aspokaspofkjsopfkapo]

Dan Brown ftw

[Randox]

Dan Brown ftw

 

 

 

Thank you for another useless post. We all appreciate spam here. Please post again when you dissscover how to think.

 

 

 

The split rock is intresting, althouugh of dubious importance....

 

 

 

The wilderness was where the god wars took place so it would easily be related to both war and death. If you need a second canidate for war and death I belive the swamps (mortania) would qualify for both counts as well.

[KingWenlok]

I've done a bit of searching with 1alebcay, and here's what we found.

 

 

 

So far we've searched the whole of War and a bit of Famine. War is the most interesting bit. I found a pile of bones that formed a pattern similar to that of the eye symbol of the Falador stones (bone pile in Goblin section near entrance). Going on further, I found more eye-like bone formations. But most interesting is the two skeletons I found in (as I like to call it) Rangers Paradise. They were sitting back to back. But looking from a birds-eye view on them, they looked similar to crab eyes. I'm beginning to have a bit of a clue about Zaros- he's the empty lord, is he not? Perhaps they mean empty both physically and emotionally? Perhaps he is a creature with an exoskeleton (a crab?), making him devoid of emotion and body? Any research on Cancer the Crab or other crab-like gods/demi-gods/whatever would be appreciated. 1alebcay noted that his name alone may also be power itself, so he wouldn't even need a body. His physical form may have been worthless after all, and his mind is still out there, as powerful and intelligent as ever.

 

 

 

Now, at the Gift of Peace is where it gets most interesting. There are four flowers there- blue, yellow, orange, and red with blue specks. I have drawn a logical guess and concluded that blue=war, yellow=famine, orange=pestilence and red=death. So far, the starting point of the famine search has confirmed that indeed the yellow flower equals famine. Now, oddly, these flowers don't look very healthy at all, probably because they are in the presence of peace- an anti-apocalypse symbol. Strangely though, war is not the most affected- death is the most affected. It's practically dieing- small, straggled, and wilting. 1alebcay has noted that he has seen no other plant like this in Runescape. How odd that death itself is dieing. Can anyone gather any conclusions from this? Also, 1alebcay has made note that the walls of war are ghostly and fragile looking- surely they would be strong? Well, we then remembered that the gates of the Stronghold are indeed alive. each one from each level is the master of that particular level. However, this begs the question- who is the master of the masters? Who is the Hades ('then there was Death, and Hades following close behind' or words to that effect) of RuneScape? Well, I believe it's Zaros. Yep, Zaros could very well be controlling the Stronghold, as isn't it practically an Underworld environment? Then again, who is the master of the anti-apocalypse masters (peace, plenty, health and life)? Armadyl?

 

 

 

And now, for possibly the biggest part of my post. The most important, as a matter of fact. Well, probably- many of you may think it's absurd, impossible, or just downright stupid. But, it's probably the best clue we can possibly have to...

 

 

 

When the WOM will attack!

 

 

 

Yep, me and 1alebcay have (hopefully) deciphered an approximate date of when the Wise Old Man will start the second god war! It's pretty far out though, but I think it's the closest we can get for now. On observation of the Peace chamber, you'll count- four flowers, three butterflies, two heads (flowers) on the death plant, and one treasure chest. We have concluded that it is possibly a countdown. According to alebcay, the Stronghold of Security was released July 2006. It is from this that I believe we have approximately 3 years and 2 months to solve the case. I believe that since the Stronghold was released, Jagex started counting down from four years until they reached a date were they would release the WOM quest. July 2010 is our date. However, alebcay has said that Swan Song was released on May 2006- so that would mean we have 3 years to solve the case. So the WOM could attack in May 2010. These two dates are rather conflicting, and we need to work out which one is the attack date (for those who aren't spluttering in disbelief in our incredibly strange theory ).

 

 

 

Well, either me or alebcay (or both of us) will get to work on the rest of the Stronghold sometime later. For now, I leave you to ponder on these new ideas.

[kyleagius1]

 

 

 

2. 7 degrees 4 minutes N and 20 degrees 54 minutes E

 

 

 

 

 

 

hope this helps

 

 

 

 

 

has anyone exept for me noticed that the gallows in dranor manors garden is just of the centre of the lines going south and east (posibbly intended for future us???)

 

also the eastward line goes right through the chaos temple in varrok???(WOM and zammy mage buddys perhaps???)and im sure youve noticed this but if you follow the line going west you end up in the middle of those standing stones(Hmmm???)

[Randox]

Thats really good Wenlock and 1alebcay. Maby I will get one of you to give me the guided tour since I might be relesed today. I'll atleast go through on my own, I don't know why it never occured to me to investigate that place....but I still have dibs on draynor I hope.

 

 

 

It was slightly confusing, I wouldnt say no to a few pictures but rember the hide tags if you do.

 

 

 

It's good to see progress being made again, and if you wan't top explin teh date thing I might help you clear it up, math is a specilty of mine.

[KingWenlok]

Thats really good Wenlock and 1alebcay. Maby I will get one of you to give me the guided tour since I might be relesed today. I'll atleast go through on my own, I don't know why it never occured to me to investigate that place....but I still have dibs on draynor I hope.

 

Alas, alebcay already investigated there, and found nothing. :P I'll log on now though, and investigate the Stronghold with you if you're there.

 

 

 

It was slightly confusing, I wouldnt say no to a few pictures but rember the hide tags if you do.

 

Sorry Randox, Paint and Photoshop are busted. alebcay will probably have to take them. Anyway, all my posts never make sense. :mrgreen:

 

 

 

It's good to see progress being made again, and if you wan't top explin teh date thing I might help you clear it up, math is a specilty of mine.

 

If you can find an exact Swang Song and Stronghold release date, then I hope you don't mind doing the math and solving how long we have left exactly (preferably giving both dates and length of times). After that, all we have to do is work out which date seems most likely as to when the WOM will attack. In other words, we need more clues- some of which may be in a members world (yes I'm looking at you Trobi and Xewleer :P ).

[KCHughes]

Wow, no wonder you two were gone for so long :shock:

 

 

 

I noticed the countdown part, but do you think it's in years? It could also be in events - 4 began with Swan's Song, 3 will be the next WOM-related quest, and so on. Could mean 4 quests in the series. It could also mean a pattern - something beginning with the flowers or that symbolizes them, and ending with a treasure chest. Isn't that what quests are, really? A starting point, a journey, and then a reward at the end?

[1alebcay]

The stronghold was first released on July 4, 2006. (July 4 by the way is the day America got its independence)

 

 

 

Swan Song was released on May 2, 2006.

 

 

 

I still have yet to find when the WOM update was released.

 

 

 

Edit: By the way Randox, you can still check out Draynor manor. I was only checking the northern grounds for some sign of one of our stones.

[fronzz]

After that, all we have to do is work out which date seems most likely as to when the WOM will attack. In other words, we need more clues- some of which may be in a members world (yes I'm looking at you Trobi and Xewleer Razz ).

 

 

 

I can help too. Ive overlooked this topic for to long, its interesting me again :D

[KingWenlok]

Right, me and alebcay have finished looking over the sections.

 

 

 

Well, in Famine, we basically proved that the yellow flower was indeed Famine. However, we also discussed other things. The Zamorakian Mage near Edgeville that allows players to enter the Abyss could possibly have helped the mind of Zaros to enter the Stronghold. This mage could be a rogue, and conspiring against his god. We believe that Zaros may have offered the mage greater power, and so he fell for it.

 

 

 

Now, Pestilence is very interesting. Over it, you will see green and red tendrils. The walls are also green and red. The skeletons littering the flour are white (whiter so than ones on the previous sections). We believe that in this level Zaros is making fun of the gods, by making it out that balance and chaos are one and the same and that saradomin is actually a killer or is weak. The new scorpions (which crawl over Pestilence) are purple, so we believe that Zaros is making himself out to be mightier than the three, whilst also implying that he'll put an eternal sting/wound in those who oppose him. We also had a brainwave about Armadyl. We believe that he may have a pocket of influence over the Stronghold. Here's how are theory goes- we believe that the spirit of Armadyl may have fled to hide in the Stronghold but was captured by Zaros and imprisoned. There Zaros tortured, humiliating, and manipulated him. However, one day Armadyl broke free, and tried to escape, but his spirit was bound to the Stronghold. It was then that Zaros realised that he should have killed Armadyl and taken his power, thus making him more powerful than all three gods put together. Therefore, Zaros and Armadyl constantly wage war throughout the Stronghold. We believe that Zaros and Armadyl's power is drawn from apocalyptic and anti-apocalyptic energy. So Zaros would draw his power from War, Famine, Pestilence and Death, whilst Armadyl would draw his power from Peace, Plenty, Health and Life. Thus, the treasure rooms are explained.

 

 

 

Last but not least, Death. Over Death, we closely observed the bodies on the ground, and their skulls were of stereotypical aliens. However, we once again, had a brainwave. We believe that the Stronghold was once a huge underground fortress, controlled by Armadyl himself. Because of his power, the people who sought sanctuary there had nothing to fear. However, when Armadyl's staff was stolen, and most of his power lost, the Stronghold was open to attack. So, Zaros took his chance, and went there with a plan to plot his way back to resuming a physical form, so he could fully conquer RuneScape. He took over the place, and offered the people to join him. They refused, and were mutated into hidious creations. Once such skeleton interested me much. It was one of those alien skulls. But to my shock and horror, it had crab claws. Nope, it wasn't ribs (ribs have tiny fragments of bone jutting out of them)- they were curved crab claws. Just sticking out of the ground. So, we came to the conclusion- Zaros mutated them into a form similar to himself, only mindless and totally bent to his will. He's building an army, with the same strength as he has. All he has to do is kill Armadyl. Then he's free, an army with him.

 

 

 

P.S. 1alebcay, if I've missed anything, feel free to add. :mrgreen:

 

 

 

I noticed the countdown part, but do you think it's in years? It could also be in events - 4 began with Swan's Song, 3 will be the next WOM-related quest, and so on. Could mean 4 quests in the series. It could also mean a pattern - something beginning with the flowers or that symbolizes them, and ending with a treasure chest. Isn't that what quests are, really? A starting point, a journey, and then a reward at the end?

 

I never thought of it like that- would make sense, seeing as Jagex is so fond of the number four. I have the feeling that this yet to come Seers Village quest will be the first in line. Or it could mean both events and years- I think we should keep our eye on both of them. As of now though, I'm not sure what flowers could mean- Dark, have you got any mythology on flowers for us? :P

 

 

 

I can help too. Ive overlooked this topic for to long, its interesting me again

 

Good to hear! I'll look forward to you posting again. :D

 

 

 

P.S. Randox, sorry, forgot you were in hospital. Hope you get out soon, and back to the joy of... searching for useless junk. :mrgreen:

[1alebcay]

Wenlok and I took another trip and were exploring the lower levels of the stronghold. We didn't necessarily find all that much but what we did find brought up some interesting thoughts.

 

 

 

You probably don't know how we got around to thinking of this, but while we were talking we were thinking about Zaros. We suggested that maybe when the Zammorack mage opened the abyss he let Zaros out. This is nothing new, but we thought maybe he went to the stronghold. He either found it there or made it himself. The mage let him out maybe because he promised to give Zammorack more power, or maybe Zammorack wanted to cause Chaos, and thought he could escape from the chaos.

 

 

 

Since he was one of the first gods he possibly had more power. He had power of many areas. As he went through and made or took each level of the stronghold he manifested one of his many facets there. On the first floor he manifested war, on the second famine, on the third level pestilence, and on the fourth death.

 

 

 

Armadyl is his opposite and all of the rewards at the end of each level are his facets.

 

 

 

We thought that maybe Armadyl and Zaros were opposites and when Zaros was defeated the first time Armadyl went into hiding because he was not needed. When Armydyl saw that Zaros had come back he went to the Stronghold to fight him. Zaros set a trap and caught Armadyl. Now Armadyl is imprisoned, but he still has his power. At the end of each of Zaros' facets Armadyl has manifested his corresponding facet.

 

 

 

The first level is the only level where the reward doesn't fade into the surrounding area. We thought this might be because Zaros only deals in opposites. He thinks that there is no in between in war. (such as Guthix, and Zammorack when he betrayed him)

 

 

 

See Wenlok's post on death.

 

 

 

Between the two of us, I think you can get the idea of what all we came up with.

 

 

 

Edit: Since when does Tuco work with Angel eyes?

[KCHughes]

Edit: Since when does Tuco work with Angel eyes?

 

 

 

When Angel Eyes tortures him into doing so. :lol: :P

 

 

 

Anyway, I really like where this is going. One thing, though - Could Zaros' form be a scorpion instead of a crab? Both have claws, and scorpions are mostly found in the desert, which is Zaros' primary area of influence.

 

 

 

I think you're right about Armadyl being the original owner of the Stronghold. It's known that the Fremmenik and some of the Barbarians are Armadyl followers, according to what I've seen. It makes sense that the Barbarians would have made their settlement near one of Armadyl's strongholds. I suppose that their folklore talked of an ancient fortress built by Armadyl in the area they're in now, so they decided to settle there. They must have thought that the fortress had been destroyed, because they hadn't realized that it was underground. But when they relocated their mining to the center of the village, they stumbled upon the stronghold! They must have been thrilled, but Zaros' energy was probably still there when they found it. I'm guessing the presence of Zaros down there is the major reason that they don't just relocate into the stronghold.

 

 

 

Armadyl tends to like places that are underground: The place where the Staff of Armadyl is is also underground. Looking at the map of that area, I noticed that of all the monsters that are inside, the scorpion - Zaros - is the weakest one, at only level 14. A slap in the face from Armadyl, perhaps? :P

 

 

 

I can see Armadyl building a fortress for those living in the present-day Wilderness fleeing from the God War to find refuge. I think that maybe Zaros tried to attack the stronghold, and in the epic battle, the fortress was completely sealed off from the surface. Maybe part of Armadyl's energy remains there to counteract Zaros' energy, or something.

 

 

 

This has me thinking. What would Armadyl have done, after Zaros attacks a fortress full of peaceful noncombatants and refugees? I think he would have realized that Zaros needed to be eliminated. Being the god of goodness/purity, Armadyl would have taken it upon himself to do so. This is why I think that Armadyl arranged for his staff to be "stolen" and sold to Zamorak. Because really, why would some "rogue bandits" steal a God's staff and then sell it, when they could have incredible power by keeping it? And how did the staff miraculously reappear in the Temple of Ikov, a location where Armadyl's followers still guard the staff?

 

 

 

Sorry, long post.

[skreeran1]

I think we're assuming way too much here, we haven't even proven beyond a doubt that the symbols represent the four horsemen. I do believe that the Stronghold is more than just a tutorial island of sorts, but we can't just build theories on other theories. I personally believe Zaros is disguised as a mortal (I follow the much believed theory that Bob the cat is Zaros, rather than Robert the Strong), and biding his time to extract revenge on Zamorak.

 

 

 

EDIT: Regarding the above post, remember, the Bandit that stole the staff was drunk and wasn't very educated in the first place, though he did admit he knew what the staff was, he probably couldn't comprehend it's true potential. Imagine if level 16 newb found an abyssal whip lying on the ground, would he keep it until he was skilled enough to use it properly, or would he sell it for 1.6 million coins? The bandit had resorted to attacking defenseless old men, which means he obviously wouldn't have been very skilled in combat. How could he have used a weapon forged by the gods themselves?

[Randox]

I'm out of the hospital, 2 weeks exactly.

 

 

 

On monday I plan to do the whole draynor investigation: The draynor manor, the grounds (proboly), the village, wizzard tower (maby), and some of the land to the east.

 

 

 

Now heres something to think about. If you read all the guides Jagex has writen on the strong hold (and I have read them all, both the ingame book and many knowladge base articles), you get the distinct impresion that there is a seperate lord for each level, each one having different personalities and powers/abilitys.

 

 

 

So I propose this: What if Zaros has become split into 4 different entities that combined rule over the stronghold, or maby his power has formed into 4 distinct manifestaions. I am thinking that Zaros might be our '4 horsemen', that he has been split.Or maby its 4 faces of his power if you follow my meaning.

 

 

 

Either way I think the stronghold is ruled by 4 entities, but I belive that all 4 beings may be, or might combine to be, Zaros. And Armandyl would likely than be responsible for the tresure rooms in each level.

 

 

 

I hope I havent confused you all, but I never know realy...

[Xewleer]

did some searching into the Bible, if you take a deep look into it, War horseman (HM) famine HM, disease HM and the Death Hm were all under the dragon (satan, for those uneducated with prophecy) in a lax, suggestive (only suggestion!!! Not actual Doctrine Just my thoughts!!!) way.

 

 

 

So Randox theory might hold water. And I looked through it too, 4 others, but one master. One stronghold, but four levels, each more dangerous than the last.

[Trobigod]

Edit: Since when does Tuco work with Angel eyes?

 

 

 

When Angel Eyes tortures him into doing so. :lol: :P

 

 

 

Anyway, I really like where this is going. One thing, though - Could Zaros' form be a scorpion instead of a crab? Both have claws, and scorpions are mostly found in the desert, which is Zaros' primary area of influence.

 

 

 

I think you're right about Armadyl being the original owner of the Stronghold. It's known that the Fremmenik and some of the Barbarians are Armadyl followers, according to what I've seen. It makes sense that the Barbarians would have made their settlement near one of Armadyl's strongholds. I suppose that their folklore talked of an ancient fortress built by Armadyl in the area they're in now, so they decided to settle there. They must have thought that the fortress had been destroyed, because they hadn't realized that it was underground. But when they relocated their mining to the center of the village, they stumbled upon the stronghold! They must have been thrilled, but Zaros' energy was probably still there when they found it. I'm guessing the presence of Zaros down there is the major reason that they don't just relocate into the stronghold.

 

 

 

Armadyl tends to like places that are underground: The place where the Staff of Armadyl is is also underground. Looking at the map of that area, I noticed that of all the monsters that are inside, the scorpion - Zaros - is the weakest one, at only level 14. A slap in the face from Armadyl, perhaps? :P

 

 

 

I can see Armadyl building a fortress for those living in the present-day Wilderness fleeing from the God War to find refuge. I think that maybe Zaros tried to attack the stronghold, and in the epic battle, the fortress was completely sealed off from the surface. Maybe part of Armadyl's energy remains there to counteract Zaros' energy, or something.

 

 

 

This has me thinking. What would Armadyl have done, after Zaros attacks a fortress full of peaceful noncombatants and refugees? I think he would have realized that Zaros needed to be eliminated. Being the god of goodness/purity, Armadyl would have taken it upon himself to do so. This is why I think that Armadyl arranged for his staff to be "stolen" and sold to Zamorak. Because really, why would some "rogue bandits" steal a God's staff and then sell it, when they could have incredible power by keeping it? And how did the staff miraculously reappear in the Temple of Ikov, a location where Armadyl's followers still guard the staff?

 

 

 

Sorry, long post.

 

 

 

Me again! Came to crush your theoris once more! Anyway you should remember that I told the Staff of Armadyl's passing to Zamorak, so I know the best. The person who found it, was not old, but a priest of saradomin with ragged clothes. Then the rogue saw the staff (golden glitter) and wondered why would a rag-wearing man have something made out of gold, killed him and saw it was a staff of huge power and wanted to get rid of it A.S.A.P. and decided to sell it in a bar in Bandit's Camp, the one in the wilderness. Oh yeah, the man who found it was taking the staff to Entrana to give to Saradomin's priests.

 

 

 

EDIT: I might see if I can hear the stories from the ghosts again, when I have time that is.