United States and Seven Other Countries Sign ACTA

[Low C]

[Danqazmlp]

Boo-hoo, people will actually be able to profit from their intellectual property.

 

I, for one, like getting paid for developing my ideas.

 

 

Agreed.

 

I see no problem with tightening the rules around copyright and giving more powers to those who attempt to enforce them.

[TTanT]

 

But if a consumer priates as a susbtitute for buying (which can often be the case with prgrams), the the company loses money. So you're not stealing the product, you're stealing money.

[Giordano]

 

But if a consumer priates as a susbtitute for buying (which can often be the case with prgrams), the the company loses money. So you're not stealing the product, you're stealing money.

Not exactly since you're not taking their phyiscal money. You're denying their profits.

 

Free enterprise does not guantee you profits, thus when you're pirating you don't steal money, you just deny them money they should of gotten.

 

Stealing would be busting in their safe and taking some twenty dollar bills for yourself.

[Socc]

For things like photoshop, if they learn it now, they'll buy a legitimate copy once they're professional. That's what I'm planning with Final Cut Pro anyway.

[The Runar]

I pirate mostly music and anime. Music for mostly two reasons: 1) too expensive to buy it and 2) I listen to many really rare songs which are really hard to find (this is also why I don't use Spotify). Quite ironically the same copyright laws which are supposed to reduce piracy are the only reason I have to pirate so many albums - many older albums cannot be sold because of the copyrights. A less important reason is that pirated music is easy to move to other devices (I have a desktop, a netbook, an iPod classic and a phone). I pirate anime only because there are no legal translations of most series.

 

I think I've said this before, but it doesn't really matter whether piracy is legal or not - no law is going to stop it. Companies just need to be creative and think of ways to make money even with piracy around. The most obvious way would be lowering the prices, but it's certainly not the only one.

[aspeeder]

Because one teenager can write all the code for a professional-grade software that's taken almost 30 years to develop into its current state.

That's the point. They're selling it at a bargain price.

Yes I'll admit, for those using it at a professional career it is affordable. But if teenagers (The age group we're talking about) want to become acquainted with an industry-standard software they have a huuuuge cost barrier which is not easy to overcome with the employment options they usually have. Their high schools might have it for them to practice, and they'll probably go to an art school with copies for them, but it's possible they don't. I'll admit that's a pretty niche audience I'm talking about, but those are also the most likely candidates for pirates of photoshop.

[The Dark Lord]

Good luck buying Adobe products for your hobby when you're a teenager. :thumbup:

How about you write your own software and use that instead? Things cost money for a reason.

Or use open source equivalents, like GIMP with addons for photoshop-like features and interface. :razz:

 

Pretty sure you can buy Photoshop Elements with a student discount at around $90 or buy the extended version of CS5 for about $200 with a discount. IIRC even high school students are eligible for a student discount on software from Adobe. You just call them up to order and they'll ask you why you are interested in buying it. I just gave them a generic reason that it's a hobby of mine and that I thought about maybe going into graphic design (okay, the latter isn't true, but it's not like they'll know). That's all it took (did have to send them a copy of an official transcript, which was kind of annoying but still doable).

 

Just ask for it for Christmas or your birthday if you want it so badly. Hell, I paid $200 out of pocket for Adobe Photoshop CS5 Extended Version, and I don't regret it at all. IMO, it was worth the price, and I really love the software.

 

I also don't get why people would download 3TB of music and videos through torrents. I've gotten by with using gift cards every Christmas and birthday for purchasing music from iTunes. Then again, I also watch a lot of YouTube. God forbid they take that away.

[aspeeder]

Then again, I also watch a lot of YouTube. God forbid they take that away.

Pretty easy to download the music right off of youtube, so as long as key keep it up piracy will still be an option.

[sees_all1]

Because regardless of whether or not I pirate it, I will not be buying it. The only difference between these scenarios is that in the second one, I enjoy some software that I might recommend to my friends (who may have $500 to kill).

Aren't we entitled.

Fat chance you'd tell them to pay for it, you'd more likely seed it for them.

 

EDIT:

You know why piracy ticks me off so much? It's not only the fact that part of my job is writing software and inventing things, but also the fact that pirates are the reason for all the horrible anti-piracy DRM stuff on computer games I'm interested in, all the stupid anti-piracy warnings on the movies I buy, and the reason I can't easily sync media on all the computers I own.

 

You, and others like you, are the reason I have to put up with all that [cabbage] even though I do everything legally. FTFY.

[Locke_Superbus]

You know why piracy ticks me off so much? It's not only the fact that part of my job is writing software and inventing things, but also the fact that pirates are the reason for all the horrible anti-piracy DRM stuff on computer games I'm interested in, all the stupid anti-piracy warnings on the movies I buy, and the reason I can't easily sync media on all the computers I own.

 

You, and others like you, are the reason I have to put up with all that [cabbage] even though I do everything legally. FTFY.

 

you know you could always pirate and not have to put up with those things, or just stop supporting and incentivising companies that employ that stuff that doesnt faze pirates in the first place and just shows contempt for customers. they wont stop with that until you make it worth their while stop, or you can keep supporting these increasing draconian and ineffective measures until everything you do is watched over by the big brother machine while the poeple it was supposed to stop just continue on unimpeded.

[aspeeder]

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/piracy

 

It's about games in particular but I think it shows both sides of internet pirating pretty well.

[sees_all1]

How is that being entitled? The company is not going to get money from me, under any circumstance, because I simply do not have $500. This is not an attempt to draw pity, because Rosetta Stone is entirely unnecessary in my life and I really don't need it. That, however, is besides the point. In one scenario, they get no money from me at all. In the other, there is a nonzero chance that they make a sale as the direct result of my piracy.

You're acting entitled because you've decided that you're going to use their software just because you want it.

 

 

Also, the second part of your post is really not true at all. Restrictive DRM is a problem with game companies, not pirates. It's one thing to protect your copyright, etc. but if that hurts paying customers then you're doing it wrong.

DRM is because of pirates. Freeloading scabs make legitimate user experiences horrible.

[Alg]

How is that being entitled? The company is not going to get money from me, under any circumstance, because I simply do not have $500. This is not an attempt to draw pity, because Rosetta Stone is entirely unnecessary in my life and I really don't need it. That, however, is besides the point. In one scenario, they get no money from me at all. In the other, there is a nonzero chance that they make a sale as the direct result of my piracy.

 

Also, the second part of your post is really not true at all. Restrictive DRM is a problem with game companies, not pirates. It's one thing to protect your copyright, etc. but if that hurts paying customers then you're doing it wrong.

It's entitlement because the pirate still gets the product in the end, and the arguments often come across as "I can't/won't pay for this, but should still be able to get a copy, and any attempts to prevent me from doing so are a result of corporate greed/the evils of capitalism/etc".

[das1330]

How is that being entitled? The company is not going to get money from me, under any circumstance, because I simply do not have $500. This is not an attempt to draw pity, because Rosetta Stone is entirely unnecessary in my life and I really don't need it. That, however, is besides the point. In one scenario, they get no money from me at all. In the other, there is a nonzero chance that they make a sale as the direct result of my piracy.

You're acting entitled because you've decided that you're going to use their software just because you want it.

 

 

Also, the second part of your post is really not true at all. Restrictive DRM is a problem with game companies, not pirates. It's one thing to protect your copyright, etc. but if that hurts paying customers then you're doing it wrong.

DRM is because of pirates. Freeloading scabs make legitimate user experiences horrible.

 

Piracy exists because the basic underlying mechanics of the IP market have changed, and business (particularly the music industry) is entrenched in their current sales model. DRM, to this point, has only hurt paying customers and is a misguided policy.

[RpgGamer]

the anti-piracy document was leaked on the internet?

 

That's [bleep]ing priceless

[Locke_Superbus]

DRM is because of pirates. Freeloading scabs make legitimate user experiences horrible.

 

nah, its actually to stop used software sales and, in the case of games, so that they can re-re-re-re-release it 10-20-30 years down the line as all the previous legitimate versions will nolonger work as all the drm will no longer function. meanwhile the pirated versions free of all that stuff will be fully functional and still circulating.

 

as a legitimate customer you should stop making piracy any of your concern, thats the company's problem, then you start demanding by not giving them custom to stop with these measures that only harm you so that they have to start looking for other methods that dont negatively effect you.

[sees_all1]

DRM is because of pirates. Freeloading scabs make legitimate user experiences horrible.

 

nah, its actually to stop used software sales and, in the case of games, so that they can re-re-re-re-release it 10-20-30 years down the line as all the previous legitimate versions will nolonger work as all the drm will no longer function. meanwhile the pirated versions free of all that stuff will be fully functional and still circulating.

 

as a legitimate customer you should stop making piracy any of your concern, thats the company's problem, then you start demanding by not giving them custom to stop with these measures that only harm you so that they have to start looking for other methods that dont negatively effect you.

Let's assume this is true. The only thing they get to hide behind is trying to stop piracy. So the pirates are giving them an excuse.

 

Either way, pirates hurt the end user.

[Giordano]

DRM is because of pirates. Freeloading scabs make legitimate user experiences horrible.

 

nah, its actually to stop used software sales and, in the case of games, so that they can re-re-re-re-release it 10-20-30 years down the line as all the previous legitimate versions will nolonger work as all the drm will no longer function. meanwhile the pirated versions free of all that stuff will be fully functional and still circulating.

 

as a legitimate customer you should stop making piracy any of your concern, thats the company's problem, then you start demanding by not giving them custom to stop with these measures that only harm you so that they have to start looking for other methods that dont negatively effect you.

Let's assume this is true. The only thing they get to hide behind is trying to stop piracy. So the pirates are giving them an excuse.

 

Either way, pirates hurt the end user.

Unless that end user is a pirate.

[Alg]

Unless that end user is a pirate.

In which case he's too busy enjoying the product to get wrapped up in the DRM arguments :razz:

[Resistance]

Quick!

 

[sees_all1]

That might be what the arguments come across as, but that's not what I'm arguing. It is physically impossible for them to make money from me buying the software, because I can't buy the software. However, it is physically possible for them to make money from me pirating the software because of my ability to recommend it to people.

 

I'm not saying I'm entitled to the product, I'm just doing them a favor.

You're not really helping your case.

[Resistance]

The point that Roccodog is making is correct: many of the people who pirate wouldn't be able to afford 2.4K for a CAD package or may not be willing to buy Microsoft office for £230, the point is that the product is not going to be brought by that user.

And so the company gets nothing.

 

 

How is it any different if it is pirated?

[Giordano]

I see where Rocco is going but that is assuming those pirates still buy software when they can.

[sees_all1]

That might be what the arguments come across as, but that's not what I'm arguing. It is physically impossible for them to make money from me buying the software, because I can't buy the software. However, it is physically possible for them to make money from me pirating the software because of my ability to recommend it to people.

 

I'm not saying I'm entitled to the product, I'm just doing them a favor.

You're not really helping your case.

You've yet to counter my argument so I'd reason that I'm doing well.

You might not have enough money now to buy the software, but let's say you have some luck and win a lottery, or a rich relative dies. Now that you have a ton of money, you're not going to buy their software because you've already pirated it.

 

Either way it doesn't matter, you're still acting entitled.