The Back Room

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I think we should do it like this:

 

1. Find somewhere we want to live.

2. Create proper characters and create a working town.

3. Level up the proper characters in whatever skills we want.

4. Find Rust Roots and Inkweed.

5. Find a mine.

6. Abandon the working town and move to the mine.

7. Build new town.

8. Profit.

 

 

As to communism verses capitalism...

Capitalists won't accept the need to do stuff without payment to grow the economy and Communists will rightly recognise that the Capitalists don't want to buy anything that they can make.

 

After all, once the town has inititally been set up there is very little for crafters to sell until they reach higher levels, while food is always in demand.

 

So crafters end up having to make their own food as well as craft...which makes the farmer economy worthless.

 

Then stuff like sausage making machines...the sale value would be enormous because there aren't repeat sales...

 

 

We would need a currency, which means we would need a reserve...So here is what I suggest:

 

We build a house with a wall around.

We build a dozen containers inside.

We fill all the containers with Bread(Base currency*).

A record is kept of who contributed what.

This becomes the Bank...and the bank loans bread to people so they can craft.

Whoever controlled the 'bank' would have to be shrewd at bussiness, so I am thinking Retech, who would judge what was a good investment and what wasn't.

When the crafters began producing useful items they would sell the items for bread, which they would then use to pay back the loan, plus interest, and the Bank would pay back the investors with a dividence.

 

Thus a functional economy.

 

 

*Bread is the most filling food stuff, so we need less of it. It also has 0 FEP, so there is no point in scoffing it. It can also be made by anyone, but is time consuming, so if a crafter had squandered their bread, they can make more before Retech sends round the heavies.

[The Dark Lord]

To be honest, it's probably better to find an iron mine FIRST before they're taken up, then worry about the village.

 

I'm not kidding, you need those brickwalls. Palisade might cut it for a month MAYBE, but they're still pretty useless. If you build a palisade and then exhaust the initial enthusiasm you get when making a village (mistake we made in WE), then you run the risk of never getting a brick wall.

 

In the beginning, it's all about finding mines. Feed a guy perc food and get him to raise his exploration. Clearcut forest. Make buckets, etc. Spend LP on exploration.

 

Also keep in mind that there's a 24 hour cooldown after making a village idol before you can actually activate it. There's a 12 hour cooldown after making a brickwall cornerpost before you can extend the wall. Not sure about palisade. It's best to make a palisade SMALL just to protect the idol and any resources you find. Don't make it comfortable or else you'll be tempted to not build that brickwall.

 

Once brickwall is up, build a ram and tear down the palisade. Might take a few rams.

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Though, in practical terms, finding a mine, though important, may take weeks...

 

So, practically, the best method would be for one person to level up exploration and perception, and for everyone else to get on and build a village so any remaining kinks can be worked out, and so if we don't find a mine we actually have a base to work from.

 

I also reiterate that we are not super village, if we are found by people who can make it through a palisade we are screwed. Building a brick wall has no purpose unless we can actually fight people off.

 

So rather than constantly focusing on a game that takes no account of the realities of the situation...AKA us not being combat ready, us not having the stickability or resources to build a massive brick wall on day one, and the likelyhood being that we will split up within a week thanks to some sort of disagreement...We should focus on a game that reflects are essential newbieness, what is actually possible, given the community we have and the time that we will actually afford this.

 

 

Presently your system, though theoretically best, is beyond the practical limitations of anything we could actually do...

 

 

 

 

Also finding a Mine is not imperative...Since the world is fairly large and the population reasonably low...And given that mines were still being found months after world 3 started, it is safe to assume that if we don't find a mine in the first two days of world 4 it will not preclude us ever finding a mine...

 

Lets just be practical about this, relearn how to play the game, and build Falador Mark II, find a mine and build Falador Mark III.

[Retech]

Archi, what would happen when people figured out how to make bread and flood the market with bread? Since I have no school on Tuesday, I will likely head off to find a nice spot. If we decide not to settle there, I'll probaly create a new character for the actual town, but continue playing at my favored spot (which I don't think I'll be able to find near the town).

 

So I can just play two windows. :)

[Nexaduro]

I was actually going to have my main be an explorer, so that may work out. I was quite the wanderer during Falador Mark I, I could probably find some rustroot given a day or two. The mine might take a little longer, but I'm pretty good with monotony.

 

@Retech: The point is, no one makes bread but the bank. We would keep an account of all bread made and how it's distributed. I could probably do that as well.

[Retech]

I know, but I was wondering how we would prevent forgery.

 

 

Was the point of the bread that it could be eaten? And would we actually give out the bread or just keep an account of what bread the person has? I have come up with an idea for the bank already. What fun it will be to play as the Central bank, prodding the economy to maximum efficiency. :)

[Nexaduro]

Forgery is impossible if every transaction is recorded. Between players, too, if trades involving bread go through the bank.

 

To be honest, this probably isn't necessary though. We Taverners trust each other. But everyone has their own idea of fun. :)

[Retech]

I was trying to figure out how to encourage public building projects, but the money in circulation wouldn't increase too fast due to the consumption of the bread and the efforts of the bank to buy back bread (selling seeds for instance).

[archimage_a]

Sigh, the idea is that a crafter needs food and wouldn't have time to make the food themselves, thus could be payed in Bread, keeping them alive and allowing them to reach a high level when they could start offering useful services.

 

Farmers, who would make grain so they could harvest straw, could sell their low quality grain seed to a baker, or even just bake it themselves, making bread, thus allowing them to buy the useful services when they become avalible.

 

Archi, what would happen when people figured out how to make bread and flood the market with bread?

Then the economy collapses and people are left with lots of bread...

 

 

 

This isn't some sort of 5 year plan, this is just to get past the inital stage where every the only people with any food hoard it because no one else has any goods or services to offer.

 

 

 

 

It was just an idea as a compromise between Capitalism where Farmers sit around looking smug while the crafters die/take ages to get anywhere, and Communism where the Farmers get annoyed and leave.

 

 

 

In simpler language, we create a national debt.

[The_Mather1]

Or an even better system, areas are put up for each line of work, farmers in one area, craftmen in another, tools are shared between those who use them in their job. People are allowed to have personal equipment but must make or buy it themselves with coins which are distributed by the bank as payment. Standard stuff is free, but one can only get what's neccessary, special orders cost money (amount decided by producer).

If someone refuses to work they are warned thrice then kicked/killed.

[Icuownage]

I belive our village should be relatively square and be sort out as Andvari said, as in mine is central.

 

Let's sort it out into areas,

 

Area1- Mine (Includes mine, a few houses for miners in the centre, and on surrounded by houses that will house the materials for crafting, oh and the village totem thing)

Area2- Crafting(Includes workshops for crafters, these will also be their living areas)

Area3- Trade and Residental(Where most people generally live, where the market is, and will probably be the most dense area of the entire village)

Area4- Food farming(Includes large farms of food, split between every seed. Houses will hold the seeds/food and also the machines required to create advanced food)

Area5- Internal city forest(A large area we populate with trees, this will also be used for foraging, and is the largest area)

Outer walls (Probably 2-3 brickwalls thick)

Also the outer-dock, which is probably not connected to the village, but is the closest part of the village that leads to a huge body of water (this is for trading with other villages, and will house traders/explorers/ and all the ships of the village.)

 

Each area is boxed off with a brick wall each, and I pretty much have assumed which is more important for us by which area it goes in (the outer areas are the least important). As the mine seems to be our 'jewel' and it musn't fall.

 

Transport is done with statues, and each statue has a barrel next to it full of alcohol(I think that's the travel weariness drinks) and crates full of tankards.

 

General infrastructure, Except for 4/5 I believe all other areas should be covered in stone. This is because each villager can then carry around a wagon (these will be wide roads, perhaps 3-4 stone in width) This is good for transportation of materials (As most, not all villagers should be working a lot of the time) and good for general getting around, as IIRC, wagons didn't deplete stamina when you ran.

 

Military should pretty much a high priority for us. As mines are precious, and I believe if we form such a city, it'll become quite a lovely place for raiders to try their stuff. I believe each area should contain atleast ONE barracks, (perhaps two on the outer walls). Basic military training is required for all villagers, and so it'll slow than raiders, so the internal areas can be defended easier. Anywho, the barracks contain weapons, and alerts are given over village chat, if people need to get to the barracks. They should go to the barracks of the according area they're in, and prepare themselves for war. Though this should work on a warning system.

 

Class 1 warning - A person has been spotted outside of the walls, and looks rather suspcious. Prepare basic perimeter defense (I.E, like one or two guys) to stand guard, and keep watch for any further behaviour.

 

Class 2 warning- A breach in the wall has been spotted, search parties are sent throughout area 5 for enemies, and area 4 begins defensive preparations

 

Class 2b warning - No such enemies have been found, and the wall has been repaired. Search parties will continue, and people are to remain suspcious until told otherwise.

 

Class 2c warning - Suspcious things, such as bodies of dead animals, chopped down trees, actual dead people, have been found. Area 5 begin complete defensive positions, and area 5 walls are searched for breachers, while the outer wall is repaired, and the enemy is boxed in.

 

Class 3 warning - An enemy force has been found, and have begun their assault on the city, all areas should begin defense, priority taken on the outer areas. Weakling should think about fleeing

 

Class 4 warning - A large enemy force has been found, and are attacking the city. Everyone should be begin defense as fast as possible, and weaklings should leave, as they will only be a liability.

 

Class 5 warning - An enemy force of unbelieveable size has begun to attack, or has already breached the city. Preparations for full city evacuation should begin, as we make our final stand against them. Scouting for a new mine begins (though we should always find multiple)

 

 

Economy

 

As economy is rather important in the village, it should be handled delicately. Currency should at the beginning, be nonexistant, it holds too much of a strain on people. We need to figure out a good base first. This is good so newcomers wont be able to othertrow the economy if they became well prepared.

 

Food shouldn't really be a currency, it's really easy to grow, and people can just go off to other sections, grow some food, while they do other stuff. Also it gives farmers to much potential to screw us over. I believe the currency, should we use one, should be completely controlled, as in, if it's brought in, it's documented. If people begin smuggling, it just causes problems.

 

Anywho, craft should pretty much take priority over food, as crafts are difficult, specialised, and have a huge impact on what we can do. It is also good for export. So people who become crafters, should, well be richer.

 

I believe farming should be handled per person. As in, you're given a plot of land in area 4. This is your personal plot, and this is where you should lay a stake claim, (or use an alt to). You should keep track of your farm, so you know if anything has been stolen. Your plot should start out the same as everyone elses, and you're handed seeds from the city, but this does not stop you from asking for certain seeds, if you give good reasons. You can also always go off and start your own plot of farmland elsewhere. Thus why farming is not such a problem.

 

So what I'm basically saying, everyone should aim for crafting skills. Now this may sound silly, but a high amount of crafters is great for the village. Be it advanced food crafting (that counts, and is very important, and is different to farming food imo), metal, clay, wood and such crafting. It is all important. Now you're may saying, where do the raw materials come from. Well this is what I believe our economy should work as. You place order for something, they tell you what they need (base materials, perhap some advanced materials if it's really difficult), you go and gather them yourself. But, you may find that boring, so you may offer someone an item you crafted to do it for you, and thus it goes down the chain. Until we get the people who're actually okay with gathering (it kind of acts like sieve), as mentality is different from people, and some people like to work and just get paid, and some people like to pay for stuff and pay other people to do their work. It kind of balances out.

 

So yes, I'm just saying, we let the economy evolve and go on from there.

 

Anywho, what do people think? I would include pics, but they'd take to long.

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[summery of Collectivisation]

 

Somehow I don't think people are gonna go for it.

 

 

I would include pics, but they'd take to long.

 

Kinda summerises what would happen if we went with that kind of plan.

 

The mine area would be what?

2 houses by 1 mine, plus cart room, so +8 tiles virtual and horizontal.

Houses equal 7, mines equal 3...so 14+3+8...26 by 26.

So that would be 102 tiles, minus 2 for gate, 2 for gate posts and 4 for corners, so 94.

 

Walls:

940 Bricks

 

Gate:

75 Bricks

5 Bars of Steel

 

First corner post:

300 Bricks

10 Bars of Wrought Iron

 

Subsequent corner posts(Plus gate posts):

250 Bricks

25 Bars of Wrought Iron

 

Total:

1565 Bricks

5 Bars of Steel

35 Bars of Wrought Iron

 

 

A kiln holds 25 Bricks, and takes approximately 12 minutes to bake the bricks. (Ignoring stocking time and collecting the clay/branches)

This amounts to 12 and a half hours of solid work.(Less if more kilns were operating)

 

And this is for the innermost ring...The total time we would have to invest purely on making the bricks(Not laying them, not collecting the clay, not carting them around) would amount to, easily, a hundred and sixty hours(1 week).

 

Then we have the alcohol and keeping that stocked up...Can you really see that lasting out a week?

 

 

 

 

 

The only real way I could forsee something like this working is if we all had several accounts and all trained each of these accounts in different skills...So if there was a warning we could get our combat characters back from training and prepare to defend.

 

And fun though that may be...

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[Icuownage]

Oh that's nothing on A Tale In The Deset.

 

Oh yeah, no gate, as gates are silly.

[Seraphi]

Aren't there like, 5 people?

 

Aren't you kind of overthinking this?

 

I'll be over here being a buzzkill if you need me.

[Icuownage]

Yep.

 

Mine was on the assumption we'd attract attention from people, an grow larger.

[Nexaduro]

So, Archi... What you're saying is, in the end, my strategy would be the most effective? :P

[Icuownage]

So, Archi... What you're saying is, in the end, my strategy would be the most effective? :P

 

Where IS your strategy?

[archimage_a]

I don't think there is a 'best' strategy...Ico's system would definately be good if we had a huge population...I just deal in what we have now, rather than what we could have one day.

 

If people want to play massive city, then I won't stop them...But it just seems rather a waste to construct this massive, 2 week(assuming sleep, 4-6 weeks with school...) constant play, if we end up with 9 people.

[Icuownage]

Then how about this:

 

Our first village (the one we make before we actually find a mine) has only one purpose. To supply us with the means AND the ways of getting to a mine. This includes supplies for travelling, 30+ rustroot potions (I'm serious) and enough food for a 2 hour travel. And enough resources to start the means of forming a new village (So wood and food)

 

Economy is abandoned. To few people, and too much hassle for such an ideal.

 

Everyone has a farm (it's a great source of LP) and a few multis for different areas (such as forging or crafting and military)

 

There's a centre around the mine, and then the village resources that we share. Then everyone is gifted an area, and then we just personalise really.

[The_Mather1]

"Nex, one of Zaros's most powerful weapons of war, has reawakened after unknown years of enchanted sleep and imprisonment."

Didn't know you were one of Zaros' champions, Nex.

[Nexaduro]

Pah. I knew there was a reason for this stomach ache.

[The_Mather1]

You better watch out for people trying to kill you.

[Nexaduro]

Eh, while I admire Zaros' taste in pauldrons, I'm more of a Guthix sort of man.

[The_Mather1]

You do know the only Zarosians seen (except "you") are mahjarrats, who only wear robes, right?

 

EDIT: I believe you are not who you claim to be.

[Nexaduro]

Oh, right, that would be Bandos. Heh. Slight difference. :P