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Tip.It Times - 19th February 2012


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They were using people choosing offence over defence as evidence that defence needs fixing.

 

Well, when you don't need defense as much.. it's worth looking to see if it can be fixed.

 

Personally, I find it dumb that armor/defense has no effect on damage (excluding damage soak) and only changes how often you get hit. I would rather see the damage rate stay the same, but take lower damage, vs taking fewer hits but overall higher ones. (It would lower the random luck factor a lot more)

 

The problem here is that there is either a quite substantial (or just vocal) group that very much enjoys hitting a huge number. The debate can be likened to the recent bold font/skinny font debate.

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I'd like to see an accuracy curve. The current role of defence merely raises the probability that the hit would 'miss' and hit a zero, as opposed to the attack being 'hit' to deal arbitrary damage between 1 and the max hit (with equal likelihood of any particular number).

 

I'd like to see defence to play the additional role of making lower hits e.g. (0-300) more likely than say.. higher hits between (301-600). It logically follows because striking a non-vital target area is less damaging to the player/monster than hitting a vital target area, and so it would more closely emulate real life combat.

 

Defences, when applied in the real world, doesn't merely negate certain blows. It mitigates damage received as well, by redirecting the force to another spot. If this was applied to RuneScape, defence would become a much more meaningful/useful tool to have.

 

In order to rectify the advantage that the proposal would give to defence tanks - the opposite could be true for those who have a high attack level, which would balance out if placed together.

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I like the fact that "defense needs fixing" but I dislike when someone starts "suggesting" how to actually fix it...

 

There's more here than just a few hits from some monsters, defense is a huge skill that involves all the game and it can not be changed that easily.

Sure, when I was in the crafting guild mining gold for money I also wanted it to have a bank, a furnace, etc, etc... but we have to know that Jagex has to keep a balance, not only in combat but in the whole game.

 

Adding life point boost to rune armour would be stupid, anyone can easily buy that set with minimal effort now, people would rage and torva would crash.

 

There's many things that need "fixing" in runescape but we, as players, have to understand that some things just work like that and that's the game we chose to play.

 

 

I liked the 2nd article, seemed well written and I enjoyed reading it. :)

 

The 3rd one shocked me thought, I didn't expect people to do that to newcomers.. :mellow:

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Adding life point boost to rune armour would be stupid, anyone can easily buy that set with minimal effort now, people would rage and torva would crash.

 

Even rune armor could provide a boost, but not so much as Torva.

 

Even Jagex isn't that stupid to add mega life-boosting to rune armor. :ohnoes: I'm pretty sure they intend to add lp boosts to most armor sets in the near future.

but we have to know that Jagex has to keep a balance, not only in combat but in the whole game.

 

It's easy enough to balance it.. still have Nex armor being the best, with rune armor maybe adding a max of +100 lp.

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Mod Chris L already said he wants to add life-boost to armours, he spoke about Nex Armour possible getting up to 4000 lp bonus.

 

Then all the bosses and every monster would get LP boosts as well, what's the point?

 

Ummm, why? Besides, even if they did it would obviously be done in a way that would balance it accordingly

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Mod Chris L already said he wants to add life-boost to armours, he spoke about Nex Armour possible getting up to 4000 lp bonus.

 

Then all the bosses and every monster would get LP boosts as well, what's the point?

 

Ummm, why? Besides, even if they did it would obviously be done in a way that would balance it accordingly

 

If Nex armours gave 4000 LP, I mean.

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Mod Chris L already said he wants to add life-boost to armours, he spoke about Nex Armour possible getting up to 4000 lp bonus.

 

Then all the bosses and every monster would get LP boosts as well, what's the point?

 

Ummm, why? Besides, even if they did it would obviously be done in a way that would balance it accordingly

 

If Nex armours gave 4000 LP, I mean.

I don't understand your point, why would an increase in LP for players result in an increase in LP for monsters?

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I don't understand your point, why would an increase in LP for players result in an increase in LP for monsters?

 

To balance out difficulty. Obviously some old stuff would be able to be less difficult with it, whereas newer stuff would be able to do more damage. (More life isn't necessary as they already have far and above the life total we can have right now)

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And that would be fine in PVM but it would ruin PVP.

 

PVP is already ruined, all the more reason to re-examine not only defence but the combat triangle and how they interact altogether...which they're doing. So clearly some people think it's 'broken', straight up to Jagex themselves.

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And that would be fine in PVM but it would ruin PVP.

 

PVP is already ruined, all the more reason to re-examine not only defence but the combat triangle and how they interact altogether...which they're doing. So clearly some people think it's 'broken', straight up to Jagex themselves.

 

Have you ever even PKed before? Lol. Don't talk about parts of the game you don't use.

 

Mod Chris L already said he wants to add life-boost to armours, he spoke about Nex Armour possible getting up to 4000 lp bonus.

 

Then all the bosses and every monster would get LP boosts as well, what's the point?

 

Ummm, why? Besides, even if they did it would obviously be done in a way that would balance it accordingly

 

If Nex armours gave 4000 LP, I mean.

I don't understand your point, why would an increase in LP for players result in an increase in LP for monsters?

 

Because it would make the game too easy if everyone is running around with higher LP than the bosses.

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Have you ever even PKed before? Lol. Don't talk about parts of the game you don't use.

 

Have you ever made blind assumptions before? Lol. Don't make assumptions about people you don't even know. *facepalm* It's hard to take you seriously when you deflect instead of address. Clan pvp, normal pking--you cannot tell me it's not a dried husk of what it used to be without being absolutely full of it.

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Have you ever even PKed before? Lol. Don't talk about parts of the game you don't use.

 

Have you ever made blind assumptions before? Lol. Don't make assumptions about people you don't even know. *facepalm* It's hard to take you seriously when you deflect instead of address. Clan pvp, normal pking--you cannot tell me it's not a dried husk of what it used to be without being absolutely full of it.

 

Because it's not. The only thing really wrong with PKing is being able to PJ people when the opponent is eating, but Jagex is intent on leaving it like that.

 

And I wasn't talking about safe PVP that can be whatever.

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Because it's not. The only thing really wrong with PKing is being able to PJ people when the opponent is eating, but Jagex is intent on leaving it like that.

 

And I wasn't talking about safe PVP that can be whatever.

 

Again: stop making stupid assumptions. Safe PVP is cancerous and useless, and anyone who considers clan pvp action to be safe pvp knows very little of clans in general. Pking, clans, ANY dynamic pvp environment has seen a deadly decline over the years. It is ruined, for the reasons you've stated, for the decline in activity, and for continual release of imbalanced content and lack of correction on existing flawed content. Just because you still enjoy the system and can be successful, is irrelevant. I don't blame people for taking advantage of it, because it's all that we have and competition is king. But come on.

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Because it's not. The only thing really wrong with PKing is being able to PJ people when the opponent is eating, but Jagex is intent on leaving it like that.

 

And I wasn't talking about safe PVP that can be whatever.

 

Again: stop making stupid assumptions. Safe PVP is cancerous and useless, and anyone who considers clan pvp action to be safe pvp knows very little of clans in general. Pking, clans, ANY dynamic pvp environment has seen a deadly decline over the years. It is ruined, for the reasons you've stated, for the decline in activity, and for continual release of imbalanced content and lack of correction on existing flawed content. Just because you still enjoy the system and can be successful, is irrelevant. I don't blame people for taking advantage of it, because it's all that we have and competition is king. But come on.

 

What assumption did I make? I said I wasn't talking about safe PVP.

 

If you don't lose items, it is safe PVP.

 

And safe PVP may be useless and cancerous to you but to most others it is a source of fun.

 

People in 05 were saying PVP is broken and it doesn't surprise me people are still saying it in 2012.

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I don't usually read the times anymore because of articles like Fixing Defence. I read the title and let my expectations rise too high thinking that someone is actually going to say something new. Unfortunately, it seems such articles are always addressed to people unfamiliar with the game, because they just state what most players already know, especially at a place like Tip.It, where most players are veterans. At least the inadequacy of such articles can pave the way for actual constructive discussion though... Sometimes.

 

People in 05 were saying PVP is broken and it doesn't surprise me people are still saying it in 2012.

I think this is another case of people knowing what they want but not stating it clearly.

 

While the combat system may not be broken, it is nowhere close to ideal for many players.

You can hit someone and eventually kill them, so combat is working. But is everything working to its full potential? Is it working like the creators' stated intentions? Is it working (within reason) like the players' expectations?

Personally, I would say a big fat hell no to all three.

 

Ideally for me:

Each point on the combat triangle would have an equal number of styles. Ranged and Magic would have their own attacks that were specifically stabbing, slashing, or crushing. Or if you prefer, penetrating, cutting, or impacting.

Armor bonuses would be shown separately as melee, ranged, magic, THEN stab, slash, crush, and an average value of those three.

Each point would have weapons that could perform a fourth attack option that would rely on that average value.

Magic and Ranged would have more varied speeds, like melee. Storm of Armadyl is just the last in a long line of piecemeal attempts.

Attack would be renamed to accuracy, and Strength renamed to melee. Both Magic and Ranged would have styles to train accuracy and accuracy would affect their performance too. Accuracy would be required for Ranged and Magic weapons as well as melee's.

Melee armor would require both a melee level and a Defence level to use. Torva and Granite are the only ones that do this, in a manner of speaking, at the moment.

Magic, Ranged, and the proposed melee would each give equal combat levels.

Magic and Ranged would have unarmed options roughly equivalent to melee's, such as exerting a small magical force, or picking up various pieces of surrounding material, like rocks, and throwing them. Slings might be used automatically for Ranged's.

Combat styles would be separate from training styles and Defence styles. One would be able to train Defence while slashing with a Chaotic Rapier and focusing on defending from impact attacks.

Combat Magic spells would be tied to certain staves as would bolts/bolt effects to certain crossbows.

The ammos required would be tied to the weapons (as charges) rather than carried separately. The same would apply to melee weapons. With the Polypore Staff (and CSB) JaGEx once again shows they understand the concept but instead introduce it inadequately.

 

I can keep going on, but it would take me all night to list all of the things they would have to change for RuneScape combat to be ideal to ME. As it is, it's just a patchwork of updates here and there that might capture the right idea but fail to follow through. I seriously doubt the fabled combat rework they keep talking about is going to truly satisfy players or even themselves, but there are enough people that have simply accepted the way it is or (worse yet, in my opinion) prefer it how it is that they aren't willing to take such measures.

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Because as it is, it's simple. You understand it, and are afraid of change. You will reject any points I make, regardless of their legitimacy. Really, the moment you step over that ditch, you're playing a different game. And I wish that game would be severed so that mine could flourish, rather than them both suffering because of each other.

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Because as it is, it's simple. You understand it, and are afraid of change. You will reject any points I make, regardless of their legitimacy. Really, the moment you step over that ditch, you're playing a different game. And I wish that game would be severed so that mine could flourish, rather than them both suffering because of each other.

 

No, I play runescape because I like runescape.

 

It's not about being 'afraid' of change; it's about not wanting the game changed to an unrecognisable level.

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Combat Magic spells would be tied to certain staves as would bolts/bolt effects to certain crossbows.

I could probably write another article based on changes I'd like to see to magic... :razz:

For one, elemental spells. Have all from the same tier have the same requirement (So all surges at 80, etc), have wind spells be the most accurate and fire spells the hardest hitting, with water and earth being more balanced (But a bit more accurate for water and damaging for earth), and have their damage and accuracy increase at the levels where you would unlock spells today. Give them boosts if you use that element's staff (Accuracy for standard, damage and accuracy for battle, damage, accuracy, and speed for mystic). Could tie in to your proposed damage types.

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I think Jagex's idea was that if you unlock them one at a time, it's more exciting than having a whole tier of spells at certain levels, Stealing-Creation style.

"Fight for what you believe in, and believe in what you're fighting for." Can games be art?

---

 

 

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My blog here if you want to check out my Times articles and other writings! I always appreciate comments/feedback.

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I think Pvp deserves a complete revamp. But I am not sure if Jagex can capable of implementing change that can be deemed to be an improvement over the current system. I am of the opinion that the current system is far too unbalanced, but I don't trust Jagex to fix it either.

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Because as it is, it's simple. You understand it, and are afraid of change. You will reject any points I make, regardless of their legitimacy. Really, the moment you step over that ditch, you're playing a different game. And I wish that game would be severed so that mine could flourish, rather than them both suffering because of each other.

 

No, I play runescape because I like runescape.

 

It's not about being 'afraid' of change; it's about not wanting the game changed to an unrecognisable level.

You don't play RuneScape. You play PKScape, a minigame within RuneScape. And I don't know if you realize what you're saying. Most people who play PKScape complain about every single change to the outer RuneScape, because those effects trickle down into PKScape.

Because of these complaints (from the vocal minority, as truly that's what they are), larger and better changes never happen in actual RuneScape for fear of backlash.

 

I really do wish, for the greater good of us both, and the future growth of RuneScape, that there would've been another RSC-esque release, freezing the Wilderness as it was pre-removal, because that's what most PKers want. No quests, no immersion, no skills, no roleplaying. No Dragon Claws, no Korasi, no Turmoil, no Overloads.

Just a browser-based game where you walk around and hit people, use special attacks when their health is low, and eat food when yours is. MMORPG

 

I don't consider Hybriding a part of PKScape, and actually, Hybriding would be much better if anything like my changes were brought forth. There would be far more possibilities and it would take more skill and knowledge to identify and react accordingly.

Please, try to use a little empathy. It may not seem like it, but that's what I've been doing all along. Changes are not good for the game you play. I know that. But continuing to use a flawed but working system is not good for my game, either.

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Because as it is, it's simple. You understand it, and are afraid of change. You will reject any points I make, regardless of their legitimacy. Really, the moment you step over that ditch, you're playing a different game. And I wish that game would be severed so that mine could flourish, rather than them both suffering because of each other.

 

No, I play runescape because I like runescape.

 

It's not about being 'afraid' of change; it's about not wanting the game changed to an unrecognisable level.

You don't play RuneScape. You play PKScape, a minigame within RuneScape. And I don't know if you realize what you're saying. Most people who play PKScape complain about every single change to the outer RuneScape, because those effects trickle down into PKScape.

Because of these complaints (from the vocal minority, as truly that's what they are), larger and better changes never happen in actual RuneScape for fear of backlash.

 

I really do wish, for the greater good of us both, and the future growth of RuneScape, that there would've been another RSC-esque release, freezing the Wilderness as it was pre-removal, because that's what most PKers want. No quests, no immersion, no skills, no roleplaying. No Dragon Claws, no Korasi, no Turmoil, no Overloads.

Just a browser-based game where you walk around and hit people, use special attacks when their health is low, and eat food when yours is. MMORPG

 

I don't consider Hybriding a part of PKScape, and actually, Hybriding would be much better if anything like my changes were brought forth. There would be far more possibilities and it would take more skill and knowledge to identify and react accordingly.

Please, try to use a little empathy. It may not seem like it, but that's what I've been doing all along. Changes are not good for the game you play. I know that. But continuing to use a flawed but working system is not good for my game, either.

 

So most of Runescape falls under the minigame PKscape?

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