2012 U.S. Elections - President Obama Re-elected

[ilovecuttingyews]

Haven't been keeping up with the campain since the National Conventions, but a friend just posted this to facebook and I thought I'd post it here;

You can mark my prediction now: A secret recording from a closed-door Mitt Romneyfundraiser, released today by David Corn at Mother Jones, has killed Mitt Romney's campaign for president.

On the tape, Romney explains that his electoral strategy involves writing off nearly half the country as unmoveable Obama voters. As Romney explains, 47 percent of Americans "believe that they are victims." He laments: "I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

So what's the upshot? "My job is not to worry about those people," he says. He also notes, describing President Obama's base, "These are people who pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax."

This is an utter disaster for Romney.

Romney already has trouble relating to the public and convincing people he cares about them. Now, he's been caught on video saying that nearly half the country consists of hopeless losers.

Romney has been vigorously denying President Obama's claims that his tax plan would raise taxes on the middle class. Now, he's been caught on video suggesting that low- and middle-income Americans are undertaxed.

(That one is especially problematic given the speculation about what's on Mitt's unreleased pre-2010 tax returns.)

Corn tells us there are more embarrassing moments on segments of the video he hasn't released yet. Romney jokes that he'd be more likely to win the election if he were Hispanic. He makes some awkward comments about whether he was born with a "silver spoon" in his mouth.

But those are survivable. The really disastrous thing is the clip about "victims," and the combination of contempt and pity that Romney shows for anyone who isn't going to vote for him.

Romney is the most opaque presidential nominee since Nixon, and people have been reduced to guessing what his true feelings are. This video provides an answer: He feels that you're a loser. It's not an answer that wins elections.

 

Josh Barro

http://www.bloomberg...e-election.html

 

The original source has far more information;

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/secret-video-romney-private-fundraiser

[obfuscator]

Shrug. He was never going to win anyway...

[sees_all1]

If this story goes on for more than a week, I'm calling media bias.

[decebal]

He defended his claims yesterday night. Remember seeing it on CNN at like 11 EST, not sure if it's on youtube.

[obfuscator]

I don't see anything too unreasonable about the claims. I'm not sure how factual the "47% of americans pay no income tax bit", but it's entirely true that there is a large portion of the population that will realistically never vote for him, just as there is a large portion of the population that will never vote for obama. The middle ground is where pretty much all elections are won, he's just stating the obvious.

[Range_This11]

If this story goes on for more than a week, I'm calling media bias.

I follow Politico for my politics obsession and I find them to be very fair. However, this week has been nothing but reporting on Governor Romney's stumbles. As much as I like to see Governor Romney messing up his campaign, it's almost getting on my nerves. I think that President Obama has a better populist message--and I agree with a decent amount of his policies--and can seal up a second term if he does average or good in the debates. Instead, we're getting this nitty-gritty "look at my opponent's missteps" Chicago-style campaign. It is what it is, but it works. Plain and simple, President Obama runs a better campaign than Governor Romney.

[Ginger_Warrior]

I don't see anything too unreasonable about the claims. I'm not sure how factual the "47% of americans pay no income tax bit", but it's entirely true that there is a large portion of the population that will realistically never vote for him, just as there is a large portion of the population that will never vote for obama. The middle ground is where pretty much all elections are won, he's just stating the obvious.

I'm not sure whether the claims being reasonable are that relevant to the election. In an election, winning arguments doesn't really matter. It's how people see you in light of the claims you make. Stating the above has made Romney seem as though he doesn't really understand why so many Americans are in poverty, or why richer people should pay more income tax in a tax system which is truly progressive. Justifying this point further by talking about his own family's rise to wealth makes him appear aloof and obsessed with translating his own success story onto the whole country. That might appeal to conservatives (edit: I say that quite loosely, actually, for it only appeals to some conservatives) but for the middle ground you speak of, it's not good to be seen in this way during an election.

[Range_This11]

Governor Romney discusses his love for "sport" as well as knowing NASCAR owners (not being able to name a single driver). Meanwhile, President Obama is out having beers with sports bar patrons and pizza shop owners, and shows his support for his hometown team, the Chicago Bears--who totally suck.

 

Which one will Americans identify better with? I wonder. It really is an empty way to get a vote, but it goes a long way in making the President seem down to earth. Hell, Governor Romney can't even have a beer.

[sees_all1]

I don't see anything too unreasonable about the claims. I'm not sure how factual the "47% of americans pay no income tax bit", but it's entirely true that there is a large portion of the population that will realistically never vote for him, just as there is a large portion of the population that will never vote for obama. The middle ground is where pretty much all elections are won, he's just stating the obvious.

Logically, and in context, Romney is correct. A politically astute observer will tell you that Romney shouldn't have been the one to say it. What I predict is going to happen is that political commentators in the media, along with ads from the Obama campaign are going to take this completely out of context and continue to harp on it.

 

In context: I'm not going to campaign to people who aren't going to vote for me.

Out of context: I don't care about half of America (or special interest x, y, z).

[obfuscator]

I don't see anything too unreasonable about the claims. I'm not sure how factual the "47% of americans pay no income tax bit", but it's entirely true that there is a large portion of the population that will realistically never vote for him, just as there is a large portion of the population that will never vote for obama. The middle ground is where pretty much all elections are won, he's just stating the obvious.

Logically, and in context, Romney is correct. A politically astute observer will tell you that Romney shouldn't have been the one to say it. What I predict is going to happen is that political commentators in the media, along with ads from the Obama campaign are going to take this completely out of context and continue to harp on it.

 

In context: I'm not going to campaign to people who aren't going to vote for me.

Out of context: I don't care about half of America (or special interest x, y, z).

 

Probably. Such is politics...

 

Governor Romney discusses his love for "sport" as well as knowing NASCAR owners (not being able to name a single driver). Meanwhile, President Obama is out having beers with sports bar patrons and pizza shop owners, and shows his support for his hometown team, the Chicago Bears--who totally suck.

 

Which one will Americans identify better with? I wonder. It really is an empty way to get a vote, but it goes a long way in making the President seem down to earth. Hell, Governor Romney can't even have a beer.

 

The bears are better than the vikings looool (assuming you're a vikings fan if you're from minny)

 

I'm a vikings fan tbh :(

[jasignhagj]

I wouldn't call it media bias at all. What Romney said wasn't a gaffe or a mistake. He attacked nearly half of America.

 

“These are people who pay no income tax,” “My job is is not to worry about those people. I’ll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.”

 

Basically he's saying that if you aren't in the top 50% of income earners, you are a lowlife with no responsibility. Which is funny coming from the guy whose job was to fire workers making a decent wage and replace their positions with low paying jobs to increase profits. This along with his terrible response to the Middle East crisis shows he is completely unprepared to govern a nation.

[Giordano]

How in the hell can anybody believe 50% of Americans not pay income tax? Weren't the IRS notorious for being total [wagon] in collecting taxes? The growing number of tax companies (HR's Blocks and whatnot) popping across the country means nothing? Believe what you want, but you cannot honestly say with a straight face the majority of Americans (legal or not) don't pay taxes. When illegals are given Tax ID numbers to pay taxes, how can citizens with Social Security numbers, birth certificates, and citizenship papers completely avoid paying taxes?

 

Pure bullshit.

[jasignhagj]

How in the hell can anybody believe 50% of Americans not pay income tax? Weren't the IRS notorious for being total [wagon] in collecting taxes? The growing number of tax companies (HR's Blocks and whatnot) popping across the country means nothing? Believe what you want, but you cannot honestly say with a straight face the majority of Americans (legal or not) don't pay taxes. When illegals are given Tax ID numbers to pay taxes, how can citizens with Social Security numbers, birth certificates, and citizenship papers completely avoid paying taxes?

 

Pure bullshit.

 

Not to mention income tax isn't the only form of tax people pay.

[Giordano]

Not to mention income tax isn't the only form of tax people pay.

It makes up the majority of federal tax income, so it's pretty important to discuss - since it involves Social Security and Medicare. Most other taxes (like property, sales, and luxury) taxes go to the state and local level anyway.

[sees_all1]

I wouldn't call it media bias at all. What Romney said wasn't a gaffe or a mistake. He attacked nearly half of America.

 

“These are people who pay no income tax,” “My job is is not to worry about those people. I’ll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.”

 

Basically he's saying that if you aren't in the top 50% of income earners, you are a lowlife with no responsibility. Which is funny coming from the guy whose job was to fire workers making a decent wage and replace their positions with low paying jobs to increase profits. This along with his terrible response to the Middle East crisis shows he is completely unprepared to govern a nation.

Media Bias - Media prefers Obama to Romney, and their coverage reflects that. When Obama calls half of America racist bigots, media ignores it. When Romney explains why he won't campaign to people that won't vote for him, the media attacks him.

 

Media Bias - when Romney condemns the U.S. Embassy's apology for free speech, and Obama condemns the very same, the media attacks Romney and ignores Obama.

 

How in the hell can anybody believe 50% of Americans not pay income tax? Weren't the IRS notorious for being total [wagon] in collecting taxes? The growing number of tax companies (HR's Blocks and whatnot) popping across the country means nothing? Believe what you want, but you cannot honestly say with a straight face the majority of Americans (legal or not) don't pay taxes. When illegals are given Tax ID numbers to pay taxes, how can citizens with Social Security numbers, birth certificates, and citizenship papers completely avoid paying taxes?

 

Pure bullshit.

Federal Income tax != Social Security Contributions != State Income Tax ...

The fact is that 47% of Americans pay no Federal Income Taxes.

[jasignhagj]

Media Bias - Media prefers Obama to Romney, and their coverage reflects that. When Obama calls half of America racist bigots, media ignores it. When Romney explains why he won't campaign to people that won't vote for him, the media attacks him.

 

Media Bias - when Romney condemns the U.S. Embassy's apology for free speech, and Obama condemns the very same, the media attacks Romney and ignores Obama.

 

How can you defend Romney calling half of America irresponsible leeches? They didn't create the tax code, and it's laughable that Romney, who uses every legal deduction in the book and then some, would attack them for not paying income taxes as if it were their choice. They still pay payroll taxes too, which make up almost as large of a percentage of the federal revenue as income tax does.

 

As for foreign policy, Romney chose to attack Obama for something he never said, and made a fool of himself in the process. The media would be biased if they didn't cover it. You can't say the media has a left bias when Fox news is essentially Republican propaganda, CNN is center-right to center at most, and the only TV network that has any sort of left bias is MSNBC.

[sees_all1]

How can you defend Romney calling half of America irresponsible leeches? They didn't create the tax code, and it's laughable that Romney, who uses every legal deduction in the book and then some, would attack them for not paying income taxes as if it were their choice. They still pay payroll taxes too, which make up almost as large of a percentage of the federal revenue as income tax does.

I'm not defending him, I'm pointing out media bias.

 

As for foreign policy, Romney chose to attack Obama for something he never said, and made a fool of himself in the process. The media would be biased if they didn't cover it. You can't say the media has a left bias when Fox news is essentially Republican propaganda, CNN is center-right to center at most, and the only TV network that has any sort of left bias is MSNBC.

When a U.S. Embassy issues a statement, it is the official position of the current administration. The apology the U.S. Embassy made was on twitter for hours. Mitt Romney waited to condemn it after 9/11.

Obama condemned the statement too, and the media only focused on Romney's response. In fact, they pretty much ignored the entire story, about how a U.S. ambassador was killed (which is tantamount to an act of war), just so they could attack Romney.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/09/12/Mainstream-Media-Caught-Coordinating-Attack-on-Romney-Open-Mic-NBC-Time-New-York-Times

[Ginger_Warrior]

Why are you blaming the media for that?

 

Obama is in control of his political image right now; Romney isn't because he didn't have the sense to keep his mouth shut less than two months out of an election. How is that their fault?

 

In all honesty, it sounds like you're deflecting responsibility away from "your man", when actually, what he's facing right now is a crisis of his own making.

[Giordano]

Federal Income tax != Social Security Contributions != State Income Tax ...

The fact is that 47% of Americans pay no Federal Income Taxes.

Either way it's still revenue, revenue that's hoarded together and sorted out later. Either way, the 47% of people *still* pay taxes. Calling them taxless workers implies a sense of back-dealing, trashy, unclassy folk. Creating a sense of justification for a "us versus them" concept politicans love to employ.

 

But regardless, a lot of Americans do not pay income tax, I've realized that. However that is the fault of the different types of Exceptions. I do agree that there should be reform and limits to certain exceptions (like the classic welfare babies tactic) - but it still doesn't avoid the fact that the majority of Americans pay taxes in one way or another.

[obfuscator]

He never called them taxless workers, or leaches lol. He said they pay no income tax...

[Giordano]

I overreacted, I will admit. I was learning what's the issue as I was making posts. But I've come to this conclusion:

 

-47% of Americans don't pay income taxes. To change this, there will have to be tax reform or increases - something Republicans would rather not do.

 

-So what other "solution" is there? Get these "leechers" off their lazy asses and have them start paying taxes!

 

-But to change that, there will have to be tax reform or increases - something the Republicans would rather not do.

 

 

 

So I really don't [bleep]ing know what the problem now. 47% of Americans don't pay taxes. Someone enlighten me how Romney plans to change this (if he even wants to)? Are the Republicans proposing tax reform and increases? I am seriously confused now.

[obfuscator]

I don't think he really had any plan in mind when he said that. But I'd think the traditional republican method of dealing with that problem would be cutting their services rather than making them pay tax.

[stevepole]

I think the only way to feel offended by his statements, is if you take them out of context.

[lordkafei]

I don't think he really had any plan in mind when he said that. But I'd think the traditional republican method of dealing with that problem would be cutting their services rather than making them pay tax.

 

I agree; he was just making an expository comment. It’s no secret that the Democratic constituency skews towards the lower-income members of American society. It’s not as if Romney were uttering some heretofore hidden truth.

 

I also think the remarks will both (1) have little effect on the undecideds and (2) be largely forgotten in November.

 

Looks like whoever wins will be dealing with Republican majorities in both chambers: http://www.electionp...president12.php

[Ginger_Warrior]

Say Romney does win--he wants to inspire lower income families to improve their own status, just like any progressive leader does. Are messages like that really the way to do it?

 

I just wonder how my own history would be different if Thatcher had said "Forget it, you'll never be able to afford buying out your council house anyway."