However, I believe that it is. I believe in Heaven and Hell, and I'm going to do what is necessary to be a part of the former as opposed to the latter when I die.

Why, of all religions, did you choose to follow Christianity for salvation?

I don't think he did - and that's only part of the problem.

He doesn't seem to be having any problem with it, and he's not going around saying that evolution doesn't exist. So I think there's no problem, really. Just differing views on life.

You're missing the point entirely. It doesn't matter whether he finds a problem with it - it doesn't make it any means true or otherwise reasonable to believe in.

If I absolutely HAD to follow a religion, it'd be the Norse religion. Food, fighting, and sex when you die sounds good to me.

 

Another question I've asked some religious friends: when you die and go to heaven... What do you look like? What state is your body in? If you died in an explosion, would your body be mutilated? If you died of old age, would you be old still in the afterlife, forever burdened? What about babies that die early? I think all religions have this basic idea of what a heaven would be like, yet when you think of it in more detail, you realize just how flawed it is.

I don't understand though - why postulate on something you can never observe/sense in the only life you know with certainty exists? If evidence is out of the question, and there's very few arguments that could support the existence of heavens/hell, then it would seem silly to believe.

 

So, ultimately, I'll question - why believe in it?

 

I have found that life is just a giant struggle from day to day. This place is pretty shitty in my opinion, and I just feel that there is something more to living than just being bound to the mortal body.

 

However, I believe that it is. I believe in Heaven and Hell, and I'm going to do what is necessary to be a part of the former as opposed to the latter when I die.

Why, of all religions, did you choose to follow Christianity for salvation?

 

I didn't. It just happened that way. If my family was Muslim, chances are, I would have chosen the Muslim faith.

 

He doesn't seem to be having any problem with it, and he's not going around saying that evolution doesn't exist. So I think there's no problem, really. Just differing views on life.

 

I don't.

 

If I absolutely HAD to follow a religion, it'd be the Norse religion. Food, fighting, and sex when you die sounds good to me.

 

Another question I've asked some religious friends: when you die and go to heaven... What do you look like? What state is your body in? If you died in an explosion, would your body be mutilated? If you died of old age, would you be old still in the afterlife, forever burdened? What about babies that die early? I think all religions have this basic idea of what a heaven would be like, yet when you think of it in more detail, you realize just how flawed it is.

 

We don't know what we will look like, nor can we even begin to comprehend what we might look like. There are a variety of angelic creatures described in the Bible, but none specifically for us. We are told that we get a new body and that the things of old have no concern to us. Therefore, it doesn't matter how old you were or how you died, or what kind of life you lived here on Earth.

In other words, you don't believe because you sincerely accept that the biblical scripture is of some greater wisdom, or that it's anything close to the truth. It's rather the opposite - you believe because it feels good to you, and because you can't cope otherwise.

 

I have a greater concern for whether my beliefs are true. If it's not convincing, I refuse to accept it. It's the dividing line between theists and atheists.

It is just one of those things where you believe just because you can. A man has to have something to believe in.

 

You're right. And do you know what I believe in? The one thing I can know for sure exists: myself. And by association, humanity. I admit that given man's breathtaking capacity for stupidity it might be a bit of an irrational faith, but I will not waste what potential I may have in the belief that an invisible man will make it all better.

Here's a fresher discussion:

 

If we imagine that deities do exist, and that it is the Christian god, YHWH - then how do we decide if 'God is great'?

Vezon, I'm wondering: If you take the bible as literal, what do you make of (seeming) contradictions within the bible? Such as the two versions of Genesis?

He cherry-picks and dismisses the one that seems less plausible, and takes a leap of faith to accept the other, presumably.

He cherry-picks and dismisses the one that seems less plausible, and takes a leap of faith to accept the other, presumably.

 

Maybe you could leave him the time to reply instead of going against your nickname. There's no need to get condescending.

Yes. I do.

 

With the Bible you have to take it all as a truth or take none of it as truth.

Even the parts that are clearly changed/tampered with in the later re-writings/translations of the Gospels (which I still don't get why there are names to them. Nowhere does it say who wrote them)?

 

 

He cherry-picks and dismisses the one that seems less plausible, and takes a leap of faith to accept the other, presumably.

 

Maybe you could leave him the time to reply instead of going against your nickname. There's no need to get condescending.

He has had time... And A.n. is just going off of what he has seen in this thread.

 

EDIT: Having just read another website, I'd like to ask: Why do people "defend" the whole "one man one woman" marriage thing with quotes from the bible?

@Sarge - I'll take some responsibility here, I was less than cordial with that remark. I do apologize for that. I still don't understand moderate theism though, it makes no sense to accept it.

As an atheist, i hate the "I'm an atheist because god is a jerk" reasoning. All the seemingly evil things god has done is only evil based on our morals we have built in our >100 years on earth. He created everything and you will have an eternity to see things his way, any opinions you formed during your life on earth is literally nothing in comparison.

 

I'm merely playing devil's advocate here, though. There is plenty of good reasoning not to believe in god, and under the assumption of his none existence, you can point out the things that make the fictional god of X religion a jerk using your own mind, as that's the highest source of authority in this godless reality.

 

(Not to mention that not believing because you don't want it to be true is just as pointless as believing because you do want it to be true.)

It's not really a reason as such to be an atheist, but it does show how unreasonable a claim like 'you have no morals because you're an atheist' is. Do we really want to worship something that's as malevolent as Yahweh?

 

EDIT - Peronix has the right idea. If I could, I'd give you an upvote.

As an atheist, i hate the "I'm an atheist because god is a jerk" reasoning. All the seemingly evil things god has done is only evil based on our morals we have built in our >100 years on earth. He created everything and you will have an eternity to see things his way, any opinions you formed during your life on earth is literally nothing in comparison.

 

Our morals as a society are based on centuries of reasoned secular moral philosophy. It's no reason to not believe in a higher power, but it's sufficient reason for me to dismiss the bible as a moral authority. It's clearly antiquated for anything but basic moral principles, and even then you have to cherry pick.

I think I've said it before, but I'll say it again - I don't think it matters whether there is a god, but I wouldn't believe in one.

As an atheist, i hate the "I'm an atheist because god is a jerk" reasoning. All the seemingly evil things god has done is only evil based on our morals we have built in our >100 years on earth. He created everything and you will have an eternity to see things his way, any opinions you formed during your life on earth is literally nothing in comparison.

 

I'm merely playing devil's advocate here, though. There is plenty of good reasoning not to believe in god, and under the assumption of his none existence, you can point out the things that make the fictional god of X religion a jerk using your own mind, as that's the highest source of authority in this godless reality.

 

(Not to mention that not believing because you don't want it to be true is just as pointless as believing because you do want it to be true.)

 

I dont think god being a jerk was ever anybody's reason not to believe in a god. God (going from the christian god for a specific example), if he does exist, just happens to be a huge jerk. The thing that irks me the most about the christan god, is that if you dont worship him, he sends you to suffer for all eternity.

 

What all-knowing all-powerful being would demand that you worship him, and require it? Why would a being this powerful have such an inferiority complex?

 

But god being a jerk is not the reason why I don't believe. God being a jerk caused me to question my belief, not disbelieve. People kill other people all the time, but not believing in them wont make those people go away.

 

Though I find myself distanced from most other atheists. I don't view religion as a big deal, if people want to go on believing I have no problem with that. I just chose to live my life and look at the world with my rose-tinted glasses off. And that's what annoys me about being an atheist, people giving me a bad name, by trying to "convert" others to disbelief. Atheism isn't a religion for people to be "converted" to, if we treat it as such, then we become no better than the religions that currently hold mankind back. I'll admit, I probably wont do anything big with my life, I don't plan to cure cancer, or fly us to mars. I plan to live life however I want, regardless of if there's a god or not. And if that god truly loves me like i'm told, than that's what he should hope for.

 

tl;dr: yeah, god is kinda a jerk.

There's a god because I said so. DEAL WITH IT.

There's a god because I said so. DEAL WITH IT.

 

I'm sorry but I don't get the purpose of this post...

 

What all-knowing all-powerful being would demand that you worship him, and require it? Why would a being this powerful have such an inferiority complex?

 

 

Well.... Look at history. How many rulers have demanded loyalty from their subjects?

 

What all-knowing all-powerful being would demand that you worship him, and require it? Why would a being this powerful have such an inferiority complex?

 

 

Well.... Look at history. How many rulers have demanded loyalty from their subjects?

You misunderstand me.

 

I'm saying why does this all-powerful being have insecurities that big. Isnt he supposed to be the greatest thing in the universe?

 

A dictator can be killed by a gun, or in a car accident, I get them demanding loyalty. But why the most powerful form of life in the universe; what does he have to be scared of? If nothing else, that is at least a legitimate question.

Related:

 

 

What all-knowing all-powerful being would demand that you worship him, and require it? Why would a being this powerful have such an inferiority complex?

 

 

Well.... Look at history. How many rulers have demanded loyalty from their subjects?

You misunderstand me.

 

I'm saying why does this all-powerful being have insecurities that big. Isnt he supposed to be the greatest thing in the universe?

 

A dictator can be killed by a gun, or in a car accident, I get them demanding loyalty. But why the most powerful form of life in the universe; what does he have to be scared of? If nothing else, that is at least a legitimate question.

 

It wouldn't be a fear of anything. isn't it more of a test to see if they are truly worthy of entering heaven/afterlife.