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Tip.It Times - 12th August 2012

Tip.It Times

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18 replies to this topic

#1
tripsis
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Time for a new release of the: >>>Tip.It Times!<<<


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WRITE FOR THE TIMES - SUBMIT A GUEST ARTICLE:
Remember, YOU can write an article for the Tip.It Times! You can apply to write full time, or just submit a "one-off" guest article any time you want! Our editors will work with you to ensure that your article is ready for publication. All guest articles can be submitted to tripsis or any other Editorial Panel member. For more information, including details on how to apply full time, read this forum thread: http://forum.tip.it/...he-tipit-times/

I'd like to remind people of the rules pertaining to Times threads:

Read these rules before posting in this thread


When replying please make sure to clarify the article you are replying to! Thanks!

If you spot any typos or mistakes in an article then please PM them to tripsis. :)

Enjoy the articles!
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#2
Lose No Hope
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Lose No Hope

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I liked the idea behind the first article, however there are flaws, most of which the author pointed out. Staking and gambling make this invalid. Also, it is possible, albeit rare, for stakes and bets to be one-sided.


#3
stonewall337
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The idea of a tracker is flawed simply because of the problems that lie with verifying what is RWT and what is a gift. Just because I take/give 500m to someone who isn't on my friends list doesn't mean its RWT, but how would Jagex verify? What if its 200m say from a duo FFA corp (to get things that don't drop on LS/CS). There are just too many issues to make it work. AT ALL.

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#4
Alg
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The idea of a tracker is flawed simply because of the problems that lie with verifying what is RWT and what is a gift. Just because I take/give 500m to someone who isn't on my friends list doesn't mean its RWT, but how would Jagex verify? What if its 200m say from a duo FFA corp (to get things that don't drop on LS/CS). There are just too many issues to make it work. AT ALL.

Those problems could be extended to most automated systems.

#5
Jonanananas
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The idea of a tracker is flawed simply because of the problems that lie with verifying what is RWT and what is a gift. Just because I take/give 500m to someone who isn't on my friends list doesn't mean its RWT, but how would Jagex verify? What if its 200m say from a duo FFA corp (to get things that don't drop on LS/CS). There are just too many issues to make it work. AT ALL.


Of course you couldn't ban them solely based on a highly unbalanced trade, but it's a first indicator. If you investigate further, you might see that that account is running a lot of goldfarming bots, or maybe that he abused a bug like the Crucible dupe, which then would be reason enough to ban him.

#6
Zaaps1
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The indicator isn't a very good system. It's really only meaningful and extremely high volumes, in the billions, and even then there are a few other alibis. But that's besides the point, because if I want to get away duping billions of gp, I would not do it on a single account. I would spread it over several to escape detection.

So if the tracker only notices a bunch of increase in, say, 500M increments, I can still seriously damage the economy, yet players gaining 500M in one session really isn't THAT rare in the big scope of things.

#7
darthaddict
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The two clan articles are great and right on the money. As an overseer in the RS Addicts, people don't seem to know how hard it is to run a clan. As a clan admin i see how hard it is, and I'm thinkful for my clan leader for all his work. The 2nd article to me was bad because it was just someone remembering their time on rs before they quit. It didn't bring any discussion or analyze anything about the game as most of the articles do in the times. I would have liked it to be categorized as a fiction article.

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#8
sees_all1
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The indicator isn't a very good system. It's really only meaningful and extremely high volumes, in the billions, and even then there are a few other alibis. But that's besides the point, because if I want to get away duping billions of gp, I would not do it on a single account. I would spread it over several to escape detection.

So if the tracker only notices a bunch of increase in, say, 500M increments, I can still seriously damage the economy, yet players gaining 500M in one session really isn't THAT rare in the big scope of things.


The point of tracking someones wealth is to flag a jmod to review their actions. The best way to implement this sort of system is silently, so that bug abusers don't know what will and will not raise alarms.
500m repeated gains on one account over the course of a week should raise an eyebrow or two.

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#9
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The two clan articles are great and right on the money. As an overseer in the RS Addicts, people don't seem to know how hard it is to run a clan. As a clan admin i see how hard it is, and I'm thinkful for my clan leader for all his work. The 2nd article to me was bad because it was just someone remembering their time on rs before they quit. It didn't bring any discussion or analyze anything about the game as most of the articles do in the times. I would have liked it to be categorized as a fiction article.


I understand that you are disappointed that I didn't use any real examples. However, the world is small, and even with anonymous descriptions of real clan interactions, it would not be difficult for people to see I was talking about them, and I wouldn't want them to take offense. I think an article with more details would indeed be more suitable if it were essentially made-up, like the fictional that was published.

However, we'll have to agree to disagree, so to speak, on whether clans are an important part of the game. I'll illustrate with some numbers. You can quickly check the hiscores to see that there are about 110,000 clans with at least 5 people. That's almost as many clans as there are active people on the game at an average time. Furthermore, a fully 47,000 clans were created in 24 hours after the creation of clan camp and a quarter of a million players pledged allegiance to a clan in that time (source: Rs Wikia). As of now, there are 2,000 clans with 100+ members in them, making well over 200,000 players engaged in a fairly large group.

In my opinion it seemed worthwhile considering it is such a large body of people, and not a disgrace to the Times as you have implied with your post.

Finally, I'm not going to write my autobiography here, but whether you take my word for it or not, I am active RuneScape player. I have never quit and have no intentions of doing so in the foreseeable future.

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My blog here if you want to check out my Times articles and other writings! I always appreciate comments/feedback.


#10
NukeMarine
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I also find it odd Jagex could not track the addition of billions of gp into the game. That just seems unacceptable.

As for tracking unbalanced trades, well, assuming a RWT group has a lot of bots then they can hide their trades in the wilderness or the arena. They just have their bots constantly fighting and with a random win/lose ratio to each other which reduces their RWT image. A regular player buying gp then won't show up on the radar as he's getting gp from a bot that's lost and won lots of gp prior. Only way this would show up if the regular player did not risk a great deal, but even that is one blip.

Jagex can't stop RWT, but they should be able to detect bug abuse of the magnitude that happened.

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#11
The Floating Pen
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The two clan articles are great and right on the money. As an overseer in the RS Addicts, people don't seem to know how hard it is to run a clan. As a clan admin i see how hard it is, and I'm thinkful for my clan leader for all his work. The 2nd article to me was bad because it was just someone remembering their time on rs before they quit. It didn't bring any discussion or analyze anything about the game as most of the articles do in the times. I would have liked it to be categorized as a fiction article.


I understand that you are disappointed that I didn't use any real examples. However, the world is small, and even with anonymous descriptions of real clan interactions, it would not be difficult for people to see I was talking about them, and I wouldn't want them to take offense. I think an article with more details would indeed be more suitable if it were essentially made-up, like the fictional that was published.

However, we'll have to agree to disagree, so to speak, on whether clans are an important part of the game. I'll illustrate with some numbers. You can quickly check the hiscores to see that there are about 110,000 clans with at least 5 people. That's almost as many clans as there are active people on the game at an average time. Furthermore, a fully 47,000 clans were created in 24 hours after the creation of clan camp and a quarter of a million players pledged allegiance to a clan in that time (source: Rs Wikia). As of now, there are 2,000 clans with 100+ members in them, making well over 200,000 players engaged in a fairly large group.

In my opinion it seemed worthwhile considering it is such a large body of people, and not a disgrace to the Times as you have implied with your post.

Finally, I'm not going to write my autobiography here, but whether you take my word for it or not, I am active RuneScape player. I have never quit and have no intentions of doing so in the foreseeable future.


Arceus, are you sure that darthaddict wasn't referring to Calebchiam's article?

1. He compliments the two clan articles and says he understands the sentiments behind the articles.
2. He says the second article is bad, but goes on to say that "it's just some guy remembering before he quits." Well, Calebchiam's article is about someone remembering his time on RuneScape before he quits. It's pretty evident that darthaddict simply said "2nd article" when he meant "3rd article".

#12
stonewall337
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The idea of a tracker is flawed simply because of the problems that lie with verifying what is RWT and what is a gift. Just because I take/give 500m to someone who isn't on my friends list doesn't mean its RWT, but how would Jagex verify? What if its 200m say from a duo FFA corp (to get things that don't drop on LS/CS). There are just too many issues to make it work. AT ALL.


Of course you couldn't ban them solely based on a highly unbalanced trade, but it's a first indicator. If you investigate further, you might see that that account is running a lot of goldfarming bots, or maybe that he abused a bug like the Crucible dupe, which then would be reason enough to ban him.


You seem to think Jagex has the staff to investiage anyone who trips the meter personally. Even if it only took a minute per case including time between cases, that's only 60 an hour or ~500 a day assuming they do nothing else. That's assuming ONLY a minute per, for it to be any way accurate it'd have to be several orders bigger. It's just not practical, or effective, or even a good design to begin with.

And let's not forget trading or giving away gold with no logical in game explanation that Jagex could tell. People give gold to IRL friends, in game friends, for contests, quitting, returning, loans, borrows, to invest, to test, etc etc etc. Heck, maybe someone pays 1b to get into a clan or something. Unless any mention is in the chat log, and even assuming Jagex can check for logs hours/days back, there are going to be times where trades just happen. Any detection system would be too inherently flawed to be effective, compared to other methods of prevention.

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#13
Arceus
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The two clan articles are great and right on the money. As an overseer in the RS Addicts, people don't seem to know how hard it is to run a clan. As a clan admin i see how hard it is, and I'm thinkful for my clan leader for all his work. The 2nd article to me was bad because it was just someone remembering their time on rs before they quit. It didn't bring any discussion or analyze anything about the game as most of the articles do in the times. I would have liked it to be categorized as a fiction article.


I understand that you are disappointed that I didn't use any real examples. However, the world is small, and even with anonymous descriptions of real clan interactions, it would not be difficult for people to see I was talking about them, and I wouldn't want them to take offense. I think an article with more details would indeed be more suitable if it were essentially made-up, like the fictional that was published.

However, we'll have to agree to disagree, so to speak, on whether clans are an important part of the game. I'll illustrate with some numbers. You can quickly check the hiscores to see that there are about 110,000 clans with at least 5 people. That's almost as many clans as there are active people on the game at an average time. Furthermore, a fully 47,000 clans were created in 24 hours after the creation of clan camp and a quarter of a million players pledged allegiance to a clan in that time (source: Rs Wikia). As of now, there are 2,000 clans with 100+ members in them, making well over 200,000 players engaged in a fairly large group.

In my opinion it seemed worthwhile considering it is such a large body of people, and not a disgrace to the Times as you have implied with your post.

Finally, I'm not going to write my autobiography here, but whether you take my word for it or not, I am active RuneScape player. I have never quit and have no intentions of doing so in the foreseeable future.


Arceus, are you sure that darthaddict wasn't referring to Calebchiam's article?

1. He compliments the two clan articles and says he understands the sentiments behind the articles.
2. He says the second article is bad, but goes on to say that "it's just some guy remembering before he quits." Well, Calebchiam's article is about someone remembering his time on RuneScape before he quits. It's pretty evident that darthaddict simply said "2nd article" when he meant "3rd article".


That makes more sense. I guess he probably is :P, sorry.

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#14
terrel8125
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I liked the idea behind the first article, however there are flaws, most of which the author pointed out. Staking and gambling make this invalid. Also, it is possible, albeit rare, for stakes and bets to be one-sided.

I believe it was somwhere around 800b was leaked into the game due to these glitches eco=gamed:(

#15
Wyssewomin
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In the article about 10 things to know about your clan leader, the author stated that persons who play for extended periods of time seem to call up negative images of no life kids or young adults still living at home. Please realize that there is a growing market out there of retired folks who are not computer idiots, even though we didn't grow up with them. We are smart people who now have a great deal of time on our hands and we dont necessarily want to go play bingo with all those other gray heads. Even though we may have more in common with our parent's generation than the current crop of 15 plus somethings, we still find it rather fascinating to play computer games.

The clan I currently belong to is lead by a lady who is in her 60's and I am also a contemporary of hers. The clan is well organized, has many mature people in it (many with children at home) and is rapidly rising in the clan ranks. It isnt easy being a good clan leader but I think I can at least point out a very good one I now know.

Thanks Tip.it for the articles, just wish you would get on the stick about who all your audience now entails.

#16
sees_all1
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The idea of a tracker is flawed simply because of the problems that lie with verifying what is RWT and what is a gift. Just because I take/give 500m to someone who isn't on my friends list doesn't mean its RWT, but how would Jagex verify? What if its 200m say from a duo FFA corp (to get things that don't drop on LS/CS). There are just too many issues to make it work. AT ALL.


Of course you couldn't ban them solely based on a highly unbalanced trade, but it's a first indicator. If you investigate further, you might see that that account is running a lot of goldfarming bots, or maybe that he abused a bug like the Crucible dupe, which then would be reason enough to ban him.


You seem to think Jagex has the staff to investiage anyone who trips the meter personally. Even if it only took a minute per case including time between cases, that's only 60 an hour or ~500 a day assuming they do nothing else. That's assuming ONLY a minute per, for it to be any way accurate it'd have to be several orders bigger. It's just not practical, or effective, or even a good design to begin with.

And let's not forget trading or giving away gold with no logical in game explanation that Jagex could tell. People give gold to IRL friends, in game friends, for contests, quitting, returning, loans, borrows, to invest, to test, etc etc etc. Heck, maybe someone pays 1b to get into a clan or something. Unless any mention is in the chat log, and even assuming Jagex can check for logs hours/days back, there are going to be times where trades just happen. Any detection system would be too inherently flawed to be effective, compared to other methods of prevention.

You're mentioning a bunch of one time events. In each of those cases, a person loses wealth, but they don't gain it back immediately. They don't give away 500m, only to gain it back in 2 minutes (without trading). They don't get repeated corp drops to split, one is rare enough. They don't pay to be in 20 clans, only 1. Unless they really are quitting, they won't give away all their wealth. Even if they give all their wealth away, they can't gain it back immediately.

Yes, illogical events happen all the time, but when they start happening 5, 10, 100 times on a single account, shouldn't that merit investigation? Why did it take JaGEx a month to take action?

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Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

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#17
darthaddict
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The two clan articles are great and right on the money. As an overseer in the RS Addicts, people don't seem to know how hard it is to run a clan. As a clan admin i see how hard it is, and I'm thinkful for my clan leader for all his work. The 2nd article to me was bad because it was just someone remembering their time on rs before they quit. It didn't bring any discussion or analyze anything about the game as most of the articles do in the times. I would have liked it to be categorized as a fiction article.


I understand that you are disappointed that I didn't use any real examples. However, the world is small, and even with anonymous descriptions of real clan interactions, it would not be difficult for people to see I was talking about them, and I wouldn't want them to take offense. I think an article with more details would indeed be more suitable if it were essentially made-up, like the fictional that was published.

However, we'll have to agree to disagree, so to speak, on whether clans are an important part of the game. I'll illustrate with some numbers. You can quickly check the hiscores to see that there are about 110,000 clans with at least 5 people. That's almost as many clans as there are active people on the game at an average time. Furthermore, a fully 47,000 clans were created in 24 hours after the creation of clan camp and a quarter of a million players pledged allegiance to a clan in that time (source: Rs Wikia). As of now, there are 2,000 clans with 100+ members in them, making well over 200,000 players engaged in a fairly large group.

In my opinion it seemed worthwhile considering it is such a large body of people, and not a disgrace to the Times as you have implied with your post.

Finally, I'm not going to write my autobiography here, but whether you take my word for it or not, I am active RuneScape player. I have never quit and have no intentions of doing so in the foreseeable future.


Arceus, are you sure that darthaddict wasn't referring to Calebchiam's article?

1. He compliments the two clan articles and says he understands the sentiments behind the articles.
2. He says the second article is bad, but goes on to say that "it's just some guy remembering before he quits." Well, Calebchiam's article is about someone remembering his time on RuneScape before he quits. It's pretty evident that darthaddict simply said "2nd article" when he meant "3rd article".


That makes more sense. I guess he probably is Posted Image, sorry.


I'm sorry for my counting mistake i meant 3rd article not 2nd. As i said earlier I'm a clan overseer with over 475 people so i get what you are saying. It was Calebchiam's article that i didn't like since it seemed so generic and like a boring blogger post.

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#18
dargonhuman
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Calebchiam's article seems to assume people quit RS once their goals have been achieved, as though that somehow ends the game and credits roll. I can't speak for everyone, but what's the point of that? I thought the point of setting and achieving goals in a game like RS was to revel in the achievement, not shrug and say, "Guess that's that," and move on. When I accomplish something that I've been working towards, be it a certain skill level, a nice set of armor or something less visible, I revel in it for a while. Even if I'm not working toward a particular goal, RS is still a nice time-killer; it's unique in that it's essentially a single-player MMO meaning it has all the expansive, open-ended interactivity of other MMOs but doesn't rely as heavily on peer-to-peer interaction like those other MMOs. RS can be picked up and put down quickly and easily, which makes it ideal for killing a handful of minutes while you wait for something else to happen, but it also has enough depth and breadth of content to keep you occupied for hours should you find yourself with a few hours to devote to the game. If you find yourself with nothing to do and bored, then you either need to set a new goal or collect your Completionist cape.
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#19
Tui
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Idk how obtaurian deals with the amount of [bleep]ing he gets from members. I personally just would make up policies using common sense, but steered away from dealing with disputes much.
I feel like having evil overlords that ban people makes things easier & creates a more mature environment.

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