Well Known RWT'rs banned.

[Kimberly]

How do people selling their gold at all negatively affect the community?

 

I hate to stick my nose in here, but I think Free Trade/Wilderness removal was a big [bleep]ing impact on the community. Jagex could have lied for their reasoning behind it, but they stood nothing to gain by lying to the community about it, which lowers the probability of them misleading the community.

[Hedgehog]

How do people selling their gold at all negatively affect the community? I agreed with the statement above that it is the buyers who do.

 

Everyone can agree that RWT companies are responsible for the largest portion of bots in RuneScape. This is the only reason RWT affects anyone in game.

 

If I were to sell gold to a company, does that encourage them to bot? No, it does quite the opposite. They no longer need bots to collect that few billion. Or, I could not sell to them and they can collect their entire stock from green or blue dragons, from thieving, etc. One way or another, they will collect their stock.

 

If people think it ruins the game that people can buy their way in-game with their IRL wallets, they need to play another game. This is, and was, already possible through Jagex themselves. I'm sure their argument will be much like the main stance against bots. "I worked hard getting my 99 Hunter legitimately and Player_X simply botted it, making my accomplishments lesser." *Cough* SoF.

 

 

So, I'll ask again, since it's not yet been answered. How, in any way, does selling gold to a company negatively affect the game? Don't beat around the bush. Give me a real example and a real reason.

To put it simply, it encourages people to buy gp. It lowers the price, which increases demand. When demand increases, companies seek to increase supply, in this case by creating bots.

[Far Quie]

I am reading this and although it has been riveting to say the least with lots of finger pointing and nonsensical statements behind some of the posts, and sorry to point one in particular, but seriously? likening RWT to that of drug dealing in school yards, *shakes head*. If you think that, then I hope your not pushing the daily SOF button for your gambling addiction.

 

I really don't understand fully how certain factors make a difference when it comes to deciding whether rwt should be part of a game or not or if it would in fact decrease the amount of bots if they were to be made acceptable, for the life of me, I don't understand why Jagex does not take advantage of it and produce something them selves in game and no I am not saying selling on ge, but if Jagex did like the have with hair do's and outfits in Solomons Store, wouldn't that remove that what everyone is complaining about which basically is the ability to buy and sell rs gold to rwt companies.

 

I mean seriously, if we are to believe all that Jagex throws our way, their bot banning abilities would be able to cope to some extent on the companies that are using Jagex to fund their own business.... Take that business away, Jagex builds in their own access for players who, lets face it, have the credit cards to pay for it and then by simple logic, the bot companies using Jagex purely for gold in the real world, loose that initiative. Then bots would decrease as long as Jagex wasn't greedy in the ratio. They have done it with SOF and the Solomon, so why not extend to a kind of trade off with selling and buying RS gold. Jagex would of course make the profit either way. I just think if you take that away then the problem of bots would not be a problem. Cut out the middle man, Jagex still makes a profit and we should be happy because its kept in game....

 

I don't know, but it seems a lot is made out of something which has never changed and doesn't look as if it will in the future. Arguing to and fro and getting panties twisted with statements that just leave us confused and dazed as to what your really trying to say without answering the question directly, could be put to better use.

[Fallstar]

How do people selling their gold at all negatively affect the community? I agreed with the statement above that it is the buyers who do.

 

Everyone can agree that RWT companies are responsible for the largest portion of bots in RuneScape. This is the only reason RWT affects anyone in game.

 

If I were to sell gold to a company, does that encourage them to bot? No, it does quite the opposite. They no longer need bots to collect that few billion. Or, I could not sell to them and they can collect their entire stock from green or blue dragons, from thieving, etc. One way or another, they will collect their stock.

 

If people think it ruins the game that people can buy their way in-game with their IRL wallets, they need to play another game. This is, and was, already possible through Jagex themselves. I'm sure their argument will be much like the main stance against bots. "I worked hard getting my 99 Hunter legitimately and Player_X simply botted it, making my accomplishments lesser." *Cough* SoF.

 

 

So, I'll ask again, since it's not yet been answered. How, in any way, does selling gold to a company negatively affect the game? Don't beat around the bush. Give me a real example and a real reason.

To put it simply, it encourages people to buy gp. It lowers the price, which increases demand. When demand increases, companies seek to increase supply, in this case by creating bots.

 

There are very few players capable of affecting prices. When WAD sold his bank in March, which was about 150B at the time, the prices on the site he sold it to didn't change. The site he sold it to could easily move that much gold in a week, so why would they decrease their prices?

 

For the sites, prices are a balancing act between how much gold they can move before Jagex lock their mules. You can assume there is already an arbitrarily large demand for rsgp. When you read threads like this, you wonder why there is any demand for rsgp. After all, everyone is a self righteous [bleep] who would never engage in such activities. Yet some sites sell over $1 Million of RSGP a year.

 

People selling gold do no harm. After all, if people weren't willing to buy that gold, it'd just sit there. The harm comes from the people who buy the gp and use it to cheat.

[Piu]

Well it's not about one individual who are affecting the prices, it's the whole RWT constituent as whole who determine the prices. Sure, WAD dropping 150B didn't make much of a dent, but what happens when you combine all the RWT'ers who sold that same day? Take them all away, what happens as well?

[Stev]

You'd see 200x the bots. Sure the price would increase a few cents, fr a few days, maybe as long as 2 weeks, but not enough to discourage anyone from buying. That's why the major thing that affects gold prices is bot nukes/updates.

 

Edit:

Not sure how I missed this, but...

Recent posts were arguing that people have to sell gold or they will starve - I was making the point that this is never the case.

You would be very mistaken. While it may not be the reason for everyone, it is still a reason for some. I can guarantee this.

[Blyaunte]

How do people selling their gold at all negatively affect the community?

 

So, I'll ask again, since it's not yet been answered. How, in any way, does selling gold to a company negatively affect the game? Don't beat around the bush. Give me a real example and a real reason.

 

Ok, before we really get rolling on this, I have to ask -- when did it become the official position of this forum to openly promote and condone rule breaking within Runescape?

 

Again, it speaks to the character of the individual …

I really shouldn't comment on this, but what does it say about someone's character when clan members have to wait to mine a star until their clan leader has touched it for the bonus XP?

 

Well, for one, it says those people aren’t very bright and for another that their clan leader is a douchebag – your point being? :unsure:

[Logdotzip]

Yes let's all mindlessly follow rules instead of having good conversation and questioning the reasons behind things. What good has EVER come of questioning authority? :rolleyes:

[Far Quie]

How do people selling their gold at all negatively affect the community?

 

So, I'll ask again, since it's not yet been answered. How, in any way, does selling gold to a company negatively affect the game? Don't beat around the bush. Give me a real example and a real reason.

 

Blyaunte = Ok, before we really get rolling on this, I have to ask -- when did it become the official position of this forum to openly promote and condone rule breaking within Runescape?

 

 

I do not think its anyone openly promoting and condoning as such, its a fact of life on Runescape that it does happen and has been happening for years, I would be interested in seeing an ending to RWT personally, but that wont happen, so why not open the discussion, could be a chance that perhaps Jagex will do more than make comments about legal proceedings against companies doing such things, I did have a chuckle, I open up the forums on Tipit and right there up the top was an advert to buy Runescape Gold, delivery guaranteed in 5 minutes lol.... sorry my bad.

 

But with all the broken promises on delivering in the game by Jagex themselves, RWT is the easier alternative for competing against bots on RS. We all know that, so get rid of the bots, that's not going to happen so why not cut out the middle man... your all speaking hypothetical and throwing rule breaking etc. into the mix to win an argument wont change the problem, fact is, they are here, its easy to obtain if you have the credit card to pay for it, the bots are here to stay and have only become worst over the past 5 years I have played and the only time any one can seriously enjoy a private slayer moment or some quiet time at the Yews in Catherby, is after an update well for about 6 hours anyway.

 

I personally think merching is the big thing more than rwt that actually affects anything thing to do with the market on ge. The average RWT either blows it gambling at duel etc., or blowing away runes with maging. I am not saying anything new, I know being in a fcfor a soul warring crash clan for shits n giggles, that the comments flow saying we lost because of rwtraders and their access to continually being able to keep up with runes without actually leaving the yellow portal... but the merching clans seem to generate enough to be able to affect pricing on the ge market which is where the average, non rulebreaking person goes for items.

[Blyaunte]

Yes let's all mindlessly follow rules instead of having good conversation and questioning the reasons behind things. What good has EVER come of questioning authority? :rolleyes:

 

Indeed? Tell me, what good has ever come of providing a ridiculously small sample group and extrapolating a much larger hypothesis from it?

 

*insert sassier eye-rolling emoticon here*

 

It's an entirely legitimate question -- I mean, if we’re merely engaging in the hypothetical here, and he's not ACTUALLY condoning or otherwise encouraging rule breaking, i.e. RWT by individuals or otherwise, then don’t you think that maybe he should make that point clear?

 

Because, it reads to me like both you and he are condoning it.

 

Just sayin’ …

[Logdotzip]

I do condone it, I don't personally care if someone RWTs or not, for the reasons I have already stated many many times. It's only bad because Jagex says it is. For some people, you, that's reason enough not to do it. But some see the benefits it can provide in real life and prefer to enrich their actual lives at the cost of a videogame. Shame on them, right?

[Kaida23]

What good has EVER come of questioning authority? :rolleyes:

 

Batman. ;)

[Blyaunte]

I do condone it, I don't personally care if someone RWTs or not, for the reasons I have already stated many many times. It's only bad because Jagex says it is. For some people, you, that's reason enough not to do it. But some see the benefits it can provide in real life and prefer to enrich their actual lives at the cost of a videogame. Shame on them, right?

 

Fascinating.

 

Are you familiar at all with Steven Pinker's "Better Angels of Our Nature"? I'll assume not, but I will ask anyways. You don't strike me as one who's very well versed on the concept of the "social contract".

[Z_Berenice]

At first none of these posts were making sense to me, but then I realized you were all replying to someone I got blocked lol...

 

Anyways, aren't many of these people also youtube partners/video makers? I tried checking their channels to see if they had something to say about it, but most of their channels are months inactive.

[Logdotzip]

I do condone it, I don't personally care if someone RWTs or not, for the reasons I have already stated many many times. It's only bad because Jagex says it is. For some people, you, that's reason enough not to do it. But some see the benefits it can provide in real life and prefer to enrich their actual lives at the cost of a videogame. Shame on them, right?

 

Fascinating.

 

Are you familiar at all with Steven Pinker's "Better Angels of Our Nature"? I'll assume not, but I will ask anyways. You don't strike me as one who's very well versed on the concept of the "social contract".

 

If it were a social contract for something that mattered, and not some stupid videogame run by crooks, I would obviously adhere or would want to. But since it's a videogame, I feel that for all intents and purposes that argument doesn't fly well with me.

 

 

 

 

 

@ Kaida, yes, I know, that was my point. People should always question authority.

[Far Quie]

How do people selling their gold at all negatively affect the community?

 

So, I'll ask again, since it's not yet been answered. How, in any way, does selling gold to a company negatively affect the game? Don't beat around the bush. Give me a real example and a real reason.

 

If that is all your asking its simple, no, it does not affect the game negatively when you sell it, so you will always get that answer. It does appear to affect the game on the whole when the greed of the companies dealing in rwt decide they want more gold in their pocket and then create more accounts to do so. The legit players on RS do not make up enough for them to keep up their business even though RS is just one small game on their forums that they sell gp back to players for profit.

 

So now that question is answered. Maybe we can move onto something else rofl

[Blyaunte]

I do condone it, I don't personally care if someone RWTs or not, for the reasons I have already stated many many times. It's only bad because Jagex says it is. For some people, you, that's reason enough not to do it. But some see the benefits it can provide in real life and prefer to enrich their actual lives at the cost of a videogame. Shame on them, right?

 

Fascinating.

 

Are you familiar at all with Steven Pinker's "Better Angels of Our Nature"? I'll assume not, but I will ask anyways. You don't strike me as one who's very well versed on the concept of the "social contract".

 

If it were a social contract for something that mattered, and not some stupid videogame run by crooks, I would obviously adhere or would want to. But since it's a videogame, I feel that for all intents and purposes that argument doesn't fly well with me.

 

 

How interesting.

 

Tell me, when you signed up to play the game itself, you were asked to agree to the terms and the conditions thereof, were you not? And you did agree to the terms and conditions, did you not?

[Alg]

Tell me, when you signed up to play the game itself, you were asked to agree to the terms and the conditions thereof, were you not? And you did agree to the terms and conditions, did you not?

And this is where all of these moral arguments fall apart. Whether we agree with their rules or not, we shouldn't be surprised when they start enforcing them.

[Fallstar]

No, he just closed his eyes, starting clicking at random and by chance managed to accept them without ever realizing they were they there.

 

The terms and conditions have changed drastically since I accepted them. I have never been asked to accept the new terms and conditions however.

[Stev]

Blyaunte, you've continued to beat around the bush and have yet to provide me with my example and proof.

 

How do people selling their gold at all negatively affect the community?

 

So, I'll ask again, since it's not yet been answered. How, in any way, does selling gold to a company negatively affect the game? Don't beat around the bush. Give me a real example and a real reason.

 

Ok, before we really get rolling on this, I have to ask -- when did it become the official position of this forum to openly promote and condone rule breaking within Runescape?

This isn't a reason. You just continue to jump back to the argument about the example of people selling who have to sell rather then people who choose to because of struggles IRL. That debate has passed. The question is how people selling negatively affect the game. So again, an example please.

 

It doesn't matter if I personally condone RWT or not. I've not openly stated either. I'm stating an supporting facts that selling gold doesn't negatively affect the game.

[Alg]

It doesn't matter if I personally condone RWT or not. I've not openly stated either. I'm stating an supporting facts that selling gold doesn't negatively affect the game.

How's this then: somebody has to buy the gold. Every discussion we've ever had about the SoF has gone to why people buying gold are a problem.

[Kimberly]

I'll say what I've said elsewhere: supply and demand grow together after they've begun if left unchecked. Sure somewhere, somehow, originally a group had a demand, and the supply was created/shifted/whatever to meet the demand; but after that, they grew together under a system where RWT was able to flourish. It doesn't matter whether or not the supply would be found elsewhere with or without bots, the act itself is part of the cycle of RWT. The net actions of this cycle are destructive to the community indirectly, by either forcing Jagex to take extreme measures or by companies using bots to meet their supply quotas, or whatever. And even though the cycle is destructive to the community, those who take part in the cycle aren't always bad/lazy.

 

But the line in the sand is there for everyone to see, and that's all that it comes down to at the end of the day. There's no need to turn this into a "Who watches the watchmen" sort of scenario or go on about philosophy and Locke's take on society. Arguing how much if any blame should be placed on sellers, buyers, or innocent bystandards, gets you nowhere because the system they all operate under does not allow for such behavior to exist in the first place.

[Logdotzip]

I do condone it, I don't personally care if someone RWTs or not, for the reasons I have already stated many many times. It's only bad because Jagex says it is. For some people, you, that's reason enough not to do it. But some see the benefits it can provide in real life and prefer to enrich their actual lives at the cost of a videogame. Shame on them, right?

 

Fascinating.

 

Are you familiar at all with Steven Pinker's "Better Angels of Our Nature"? I'll assume not, but I will ask anyways. You don't strike me as one who's very well versed on the concept of the "social contract".

 

If it were a social contract for something that mattered, and not some stupid videogame run by crooks, I would obviously adhere or would want to. But since it's a videogame, I feel that for all intents and purposes that argument doesn't fly well with me.

 

 

How interesting.

 

Tell me, when you signed up to play the game itself, you were asked to agree to the terms and the conditions thereof, were you not? And you did agree to the terms and conditions, did you not?

 

 

Correct, I did, and I have abided by these said rules, apart from possibly the occasional swearing in game that got me in trouble.

 

However, just because I agree to these rules does not mean I agree WITH them.

 

If I were in a position to makes thousands of dollars a month doing relatively no harm to others (except maybe spoiling little Billy's time on some MMO), I would, though.

[Fallstar]

Actually, you selling the gold doesn't mean the gold is ever bought. It could just sit there on a mule account until the servers are shut down. That's the point; selling gold does not negatively impact the game.

 

The gold is bought, because a significant proportion of the Runescape population are willing to cheat to gain an advantage. And even if players didn't sell gold, gold selling sites would still acquire vast quantities of gold through botting, and I think it's clear to most people now that Botany Bay has been no where near as successful as hoped, to put it gently.

[Alg]

Actually, you selling the gold doesn't mean the gold is ever bought. It could just sit there on a mule account until the servers are shut down. That's the point; selling gold does not negatively impact the game.

Now you're just arguing semantics.