Well Known RWT'rs banned.

[Stev]

Blyaunte - Jagex, long ago, would never have even considered doing what they do now. That is, effectively selling XP, items, and gold. Say two years down the road when they actually start directly selling gold, will your outlook on RWTers differ? I know you say and think Jagex probably won't, but didn't we say and think the exact same thing two years ago? I would have typed until my fingers bled denying that Jagex would ever sell any sort of in-game item, cosmetic or not, and then on February 28th, they blew everyone away by releasing the Squeal of Fortune.

 

My claims are not an, "I know a person". They are very close. They are not an in-game friend.

 

And tell me, what exactly makes RWT bad? The fact that someone with a wallet can effectively buy their way past you without putting in the same time and effort as you? Well, sorry to say, but if that's your reasoning, you're playing the wrong game. Squeal of Fortune, duel arena, flowers, loyalty points. It's funny that now the biggest question us completionists get is now, "How many spins did you buy for that cape?"

 

People are choosing their real life over that of a game. I don't care if a friend of mine who's been poorer then me for 8 years suddenly has 30B more then me. I don't play to beat them. I don't play to compete with them. The way they choose to play their game does not at all affect me. I play for me. I can tell, and hear, that this isn't exactly the case for you, so I can understand your stereotypical views on the matter.

[Logdotzip]

Not taking sides, and I highly doubt Logdotzip is lying, but Bly is right.

 

Her sarcastic post basically summed up the flaws in your post. Firstly you used anecdotal evidence to try and justify an activity as a whole, and secondly this anecdotal evidence was not witnessed first-hand.

 

An anecdote by definition is a short and amusing or interesting account based as a real incident. So by definition what you posted was an anecdote.

 

I do not doubt what you are saying is what you believe to be the truth, but using two quite possibly untrue examples to justify an activity as a whole is ridiculous.

 

Lastly, as others have mentioned, do you really believe that because the end result is desirable, the means of getting there is justified? Also, do you really believe RWT is victimless?

 

 

Actually, I used four examples, and choose not to believe them if you like, but both are untrue and not exaggerated, literally, in ANY way. Perhaps if you had friends who made billions a week that you spoke to regularly, the idea wouldn't be so far-fetched. You don't, and I do, and I am not about to rat their names out, because some of them depend on this to survive.

 

 

And of course RWT is victimless, unless you count the game as one, which I don't. The only victims are either a) the fools who buy gold, or b) the stupid parents who leave their credit cards lying around.

 

Anyone who chooses being in poverty (in some cases) over breaking rules on a video game, is the biggest fool on the planet.

 

Firstly; You don't know anything about me, so please refrain from assuming you do.

 

Secondly; My post was pointing out the flaws in your post that Bly pointed out. Which you didn't address and got defensive about.

 

Thirdly; The game and community are they main victims of RWT. It's crazy to exclude them, even if you don't care about this game any more.

 

 

Firstly; my apologies, please tell me how many people you know who fit in the category I explained so that you can refute me.

 

Secondly; your post is only flawed by Blyaunte's and your standards, not one peep from anyone else. Perhaps you should keep in mind that flaws are opinions, nowhere does it say I cannot cite firsthand sources in the matter.

 

Thirdly; you would have to be totally braindead to care about the integrity of a videogame's rules over the well-being of you and your family like some people do, regardless of how uncommon that specific situation is. And THAT one is a fact.

 

 

Not everyone does it for fat stacks IRL. Some do it out of need. If you are a struggling family with no jobs available and a broken leg or a poor college kid who has so much on their plate that they can't work a real job, and someone told you that a videogame where you can make thousands of dollars a month planting flowers in a field existed, I would weep if you declined it when you were informed it was against the rules of the game to do that. People with these situations EXIST. I do not CARE how uncommon they are compared to most RWTrs situations, if even ONE person in the situation described lived a BETTER LIFE for selling their gold, then GOOD FOR THEM.

 

 

Not everyone who sells gold is a bad person. That's all I am saying. There are two sides to every coin.

[IridiumBunny]

If you are earning thousands of dollars per week in a video game, perhaps the reason you can't provide for your family is because you are spending all your time in a video game. If you used your time some other way, you would almost certainly be able to provide. Gambling isn't fast money, you usually need to be playing long periods of time to earn real money with the fairly slim odds.

 

There are plenty of jobs someone with a broken leg can do (any desk job...) and if a college student is struggling, any time they spend in game should be working a real job. 'No jobs available' is rarely an excuse, any unemployment office could set you up with plenty of interviews, no matter the situation. (Whether the jobs suit you is another thing, but if your family is starving you shouldn't be picky.)

 

There is a reason why Robin Hood was an outlaw: because committing crime is wrong, even if it is for a good reason. Same thing applies here, you entered into a contractual agreement with Jagex upon signing up for the game, by breaching it you are in the wrong, even if your intentions are good, there is no excuse.

[Deletion]

Not everyone who sells gold is a bad person. That's all I am saying. There are two sides to every coin.

 

I never disagreed with you. Not even remotely.

 

All I was saying is that your examples are anecdotes by definition, and trying to justify an activity by using anecdotal evidence (whether it is true or otherwise) is flawed (You can debate this if you like, but it is widely recognised). Which is what Blyaunte's point was.

 

I then went on to ask whether In these exceptional cases do you think the ends justify the means? In my opinion, maybe. On one hand it helps them personally (although it is debatable whether they could be doing something less harmful to others), on the other it contributes to the down-fall of the community and the game which millions enjoy world-wide.

[Logdotzip]

@Iridium, Wrong. If you are making thousands of dollars a week as you typed / month as I typed, then you CAN support your family. And not all gambling in RS is luck based, some is risk-free commission based.

 

The way these clans pull in money, if you had taken the time to read some recent posts, you'd understand most real jobs don't compare profit wise to this. Your argument holds exactly zero ground.

[IridiumBunny]

@LogDotzip, do you NEED thousands of dollars to support your family? No, never. Recent posts were arguing that people have to sell gold or they will starve - I was making the point that this is never the case.

 

I used the word 'usually' describing that most gambling profits require time input too, obviously I know this is not always the case.

[Piu]

Are any of these RWT'rs are actually people coming from poverty and have no other resort but to host flower games on RS?

[Blyaunte]

Blyaunte - Jagex, long ago, would never have even considered doing what they do now. That is, effectively selling XP, items, and gold. Say two years down the road when they actually start directly selling gold, will your outlook on RWTers differ? I know you say and think Jagex probably won't, but didn't we say and think the exact same thing two years ago? I would have typed until my fingers bled denying that Jagex would ever sell any sort of in-game item, cosmetic or not, and then on February 28th, they blew everyone away by releasing the Squeal of Fortune.

 

My claims are not an, "I know a person". They are very close. They are not an in-game friend.

 

And tell me, what exactly makes RWT bad? The fact that someone with a wallet can effectively buy their way past you without putting in the same time and effort as you? Well, sorry to say, but if that's your reasoning, you're playing the wrong game. Squeal of Fortune, duel arena, flowers, loyalty points. It's funny that now the biggest question us completionists get is now, "How many spins did you buy for that cape?"

 

People are choosing their real life over that of a game. I don't care if a friend of mine who's been poorer then me for 8 years suddenly has 30B more then me. I don't play to beat them. I don't play to compete with them. The way they choose to play their game does not at all affect me. I play for me. I can tell, and hear, that this isn't exactly the case for you, so I can understand your stereotypical views on the matter.

 

Too funny - no really. This is hilarious.

 

I could give a tinker's cuss over what other people do in this game. I've watched in-game friends and other people, even players who have mod status on this forum, break in-game rules time and again, including account sharing, and I've simply ignored it. I'm not Jagex's shill and I've never held the line on anything they say and do with respect to how they manage the game.

 

Is Jagex hypocritical? Sure they are! But two wrongs NEVER make a right. One day, you may realize that.

 

In any event, your efforts to display any RWTer's as some form of modern-day-virtual-Robin-Hood who steals from the rich to give to ... himself, are positively laughable. Yes! Laughable. Ridiculous! Downright ignorant. These people aren't "heroes". They're not to be admired or respected. They're the equivalent of small-time-dope-dealers who frequent elementary school-yards pedalling goods to unsuspecting children while their parents aren't watching.

 

Do you think you live in a vacuum? Really? Do you think that what you do has no effect on the people around you? You cannot display, time and again, the same notion that the world is your ashtray, while ignoring the fact that whatever actions you take have ripple effects elsewhere. It's called "the community". The same goes for people who RWT within the game itself. For every action, there is another reaction. Someone, somewhere, suffers the ill-effects of every single negative action they take.

 

To ignore that simple fact is to deny responsibility for your own actions. To assert that someone who is real world trading to improve their lifestyle isn't affecting anyone but himself is a complete and total schlock argument, based on no evidence whatsoever. You've tossed this notion out there about some altruistic RWT player who's thrown off the shackles of poverty to make their lives better while completely and utterly ignoring the swirling sewer that's been left in the wake behind him.

 

.. and to excuse it by saying that "... well, Jagex are hypocrites ..." is a childish evasion -- tantamount to a "well THEY did it first", excuse. Really. One day, you may actually have children and one can only hope that you imbue them with a better sense of moral fiber than THAT.

[Fallstar]

Too funny - no really. This is hilarious.

 

I could give a tinker's cuss over what other people do in this game. I've watched in-game friends and other people, even players who have mod status on this forum, break in-game rules time and again, including account sharing, and I've simply ignored it. I'm not Jagex's shill and I've never held the line on anything they say and do with respect to how they manage the game.

 

Is Jagex hypocritical? Sure they are! But two wrongs NEVER make a right. One day, you may realize that.

 

In any event, your efforts to display any RWTer's as some form of modern-day-virtual-Robin-Hood who steals from the rich to give to ... himself, are positively laughable. Yes! Laughable. Ridiculous! Downright ignorant. These people aren't "heroes". They're not to be admired or respected. They're the equivalent of small-time-dope-dealers who frequent elementary school-yards pedalling goods to unsuspecting children while their parents aren't watching.

 

Do you think you live in a vacuum? Really? Do you think that what you do has no effect on the people around you? You cannot display, time and again, the same notion that the world is your ashtray, while ignoring the fact that whatever actions you take have ripple effects elsewhere. It's called "the community". The same goes for people who RWT within the game itself. For every action, there is another reaction. Someone, somewhere, suffers the ill-effects of every single negative action they take.

 

To ignore that simple fact is to deny responsibility for your own actions. To assert that someone who is real world trading to improve their lifestyle isn't affecting anyone but himself is a complete and total schlock argument, based on no evidence whatsoever. You've tossed this notion out there about some altruistic RWT player who's thrown off the shackles of poverty to make their lives better while completely and utterly ignoring the swirling sewer that's been left in the wake behind him.

 

.. and to excuse it by saying that "... well, Jagex are hypocrites ..." is a childish evasion -- tantamount to a "well THEY did it first", excuse. Really. One day, you may actually have children and one can only hope that you imbue them with a better sense of moral fiber than THAT.

 

You called his post laughable, then compared RWT'rs to drug dealers. Someone selling RSGP does not have the potential to ruin a person's life and health.

 

What swirling sewer are you on about? It's an online game, and if you want to take it that seriously, then Jagex have already ran the game into the ground, so why does it matter if the players contribute slightly to that end?

 

And I'm confused about your "tantamount to a "well THEY did it first", excuse." line. What's wrong with that? If Jagex aren't willing to uphold their own rules, give me one good reason why the players should?

[Fallstar]

Are any of these RWT'rs are actually people coming from poverty and have no other resort but to host flower games on RS?

 

This is a pointless question as other than those who have been banned, I don't think we're allowed to accuse a player of RWT. That said, I have a pretty good friend who was in WAD, and is now in Fishy, who paid off most of his debt from college (he was American) through RS.

 

He started his adult life without tens of thousands of dollars of debt hanging around his neck. Anyone who claims they wouldn't take that choice has either been extremely lucky and has wealthy parents, or has minimal actual life experience.

[Piu]

Not everyone who sells gold is a bad person. That's all I am saying. There are two sides to every coin.

 

Well actually this sums it up pretty well. But good intentions doesn't really justify an illegal approach, especially where there are so much other options. And it is also undeniable that the RWT'rs who actually need some source of money pretty badly and have to resort to a video game for some sort of income is close to nil, if any at all.

[Donnie]

Not everyone who sells gold is a bad person. That's all I am saying. There are two sides to every coin.

 

I agree. I also feel you have a vested interest in saying that ;)

[Blyaunte]

Too funny - no really. This is hilarious.

 

I could give a tinker's cuss over what other people do in this game. I've watched in-game friends and other people, even players who have mod status on this forum, break in-game rules time and again, including account sharing, and I've simply ignored it. I'm not Jagex's shill and I've never held the line on anything they say and do with respect to how they manage the game.

 

Is Jagex hypocritical? Sure they are! But two wrongs NEVER make a right. One day, you may realize that.

 

In any event, your efforts to display any RWTer's as some form of modern-day-virtual-Robin-Hood who steals from the rich to give to ... himself, are positively laughable. Yes! Laughable. Ridiculous! Downright ignorant. These people aren't "heroes". They're not to be admired or respected. They're the equivalent of small-time-dope-dealers who frequent elementary school-yards pedalling goods to unsuspecting children while their parents aren't watching.

 

Do you think you live in a vacuum? Really? Do you think that what you do has no effect on the people around you? You cannot display, time and again, the same notion that the world is your ashtray, while ignoring the fact that whatever actions you take have ripple effects elsewhere. It's called "the community". The same goes for people who RWT within the game itself. For every action, there is another reaction. Someone, somewhere, suffers the ill-effects of every single negative action they take.

 

To ignore that simple fact is to deny responsibility for your own actions. To assert that someone who is real world trading to improve their lifestyle isn't affecting anyone but himself is a complete and total schlock argument, based on no evidence whatsoever. You've tossed this notion out there about some altruistic RWT player who's thrown off the shackles of poverty to make their lives better while completely and utterly ignoring the swirling sewer that's been left in the wake behind him.

 

.. and to excuse it by saying that "... well, Jagex are hypocrites ..." is a childish evasion -- tantamount to a "well THEY did it first", excuse. Really. One day, you may actually have children and one can only hope that you imbue them with a better sense of moral fiber than THAT.

 

You called his post laughable, then compared RWT'rs to drug dealers. Someone selling RSGP does not have the potential to ruin a person's life and health.

 

What swirling sewer are you on about? It's an online game, and if you want to take it that seriously, then Jagex have already ran the game into the ground, so why does it matter if the players contribute slightly to that end?

 

And I'm confused about your "tantamount to a "well THEY did it first", excuse." line. What's wrong with that? If Jagex aren't willing to uphold their own rules, give me one good reason why the players should?

 

 

Meh – so I got a little hyperbolic – sue me.

 

If one equates the large-scale entities which are currently operating within Runescape to RWT to, say, an organized criminal organization that sells drugs to dealers, then the individuals who sell their RS gold for cash, whether back to such organizations or directly to buyers, are the equivalent of those who prowl around school yards offering dope to children.

 

While there may be a moral difference between someone selling dope to children to make his living and someone selling RS gold to do the same thing, it is only to a matter of degree. Both actions are wrong, both have negative effects on the community and neither person is worthy of any “grudging” respect.

 

... and again, if you don't understand that "two wrongs don't make a right", then no matter how often I try to explain it to you, you won't understand it.

[Auror]

I've heard that RWT'ing is illegal. So doing RWT will make you technically a criminal.

 

If a guy lives in poverty, and has no chance of getting a job or anything else with which he could feed his family, then he mostly decides to pick the patch of the criminality. Is his criminality justified, because he has to feed his family? No.

 

The same applies to RS. No [bleep]ing matter if you come from poverty or from the [bleep]ing ocean, RWTing is a criminal thing (considering that RWT really is illegal), which isn't justifieable by saying "but you would do it too if your family was poor"; "but it is soo easyy to make maniiiiii, just plant a flowarr to the groun'". Log, do not underestimate other people's morals.

 

I remember when those bans happened, every [bleep]ing RWT'er who got banned said "But you would do it too if you had the chance". No, I wouldn't do it, you idiot. Or people who got millions of gps by exploiting a bug; "Everyone who would have been in my situation, would have exploited it". I mean, why even try to justify your stupidity by claiming that everybody would have done that, when clearly nobody but idiots who don't give a shit about their accounts or moneyhungry (how ironical, be moeyhugnry yourself, and then say that Jagex ruined the game by being moneyhungry) people would have done that, so have fun belonging to one of those groups.

[999134]

Rwt is not against the law I am fairly sure.

[Blyaunte]

… and ya know, I am getting so sick and tired of people ranting and crying and pulling their hair and gnashing their teeth about how Jagex is “going back against their word” about this and that”, and about “how [this or that] is a de facto microtransaction”, and how “that” is something they said they’d never do, but now since they’re doing it, these same people are trying to say that it’s okay to screw around with the game rules because order is meaningless and chaos should now reign the day, blah blah blah …

 

Or how Jagex is only out there looking out for itself, and doesn't care about their players – as though other game designers, or corporate or similar entities are operating under an entirely altruistic purposes elsewhere.

 

I mean, really, people. Please, wake up already. The real world is full of entities out there that only operate for the purposes of their own benefit. In fact, all of them do. We all do. We're no better than the other person 99% of the time. But the difference between those people and the better of us is that, when it finally comes down to it, someone steps up, makes a compromise and realizes that, for the better purposes to the community, it's better to just get along.

 

They call it a "social contract".

 

Did it ever occur to any of you that the reason why Jagex employs some of these tactics is because they’re trying to thwart rule breakers? SOF was clearly an attempt to initiate some form of “safe gambling” in the hope that it might curb some people from getting involved with some of the gambling schemes going on within the game. They are desperately trying to get a handle on things before they get totally out of hand.

 

Your pouring gas on it and setting it on fire isn't helping out, either. Not. One. Bit.

 

And, believe me, I am not attempting to foist any concept of morality upon anyone. I understand that there is always some base desire out there in most primitives that makes them put their own needs, first. That's basic animal behaviour.

 

But you cannot continue to act in a manner which is rule-breaking simply because Jagex doesn’t follow the rules, as you interpret them. Your rule-breaking only leads to Jagex taking further steps, and your reaction to Jagex’s further steps appears to lead you to do more rule breaking. Worse still, now you’re attempting to immortalize “someone you know” who rule-breaks in order adorn them as achieving some higher-plane in inner enlightenment.

 

It’s called a vicious cycle, folks and it doesn't stop until someone puts their foot down …

 

Somewhere, someone has to be adult enough to stop it.

 

Who’s it gonna be? :unsure:

[Randox]

For clarification, Jagex owns everyone's accounts, and everything associated with it (as in all its items, skills, and any post you make on the rsof), which means that all the gold on an account is their property not yours. Since that property is also copyrighted, if you make a proffit off their protected property (such as by selling gold or items), then it is a violation of copy right laws, which most countries do have. This isn't a new or novel concept, in the eyes of the law it is exactly the same as copying a DVD and selling it yourself, or charging people to watch a movie at your house (and if you didn't know that was illegal, you do now).

 

You don't exactly need to be a lawyer to figure out that selling something that doesn't belong to you probably breaks at least one law.

[Fallstar]

For clarification, Jagex owns everyone's accounts, and everything associated with it (as in all its items, skills, and any post you make on the rsof), which means that all the gold on an account is their property not yours. Since that property is also copyrighted, if you make a proffit off their protected property (such as by selling gold or items), then it is a violation of copy right laws, which most countries do have. This isn't a new or novel concept, in the eyes of the law it is exactly the same as copying a DVD and selling it yourself, or charging people to watch a movie at your house (and if you didn't know that was illegal, you do now).

 

You don't exactly need to be a lawyer to figure out that selling something that doesn't belong to you probably breaks at least one law.

 

DVDs are classed as tangible goods, even if you download one and then try to spread it around for profit, it's still a tangible good. On the other hand, RSGP is an intangible good. That's the difference.

 

The only tangible thing about RSGP is the number stored in Jagex's databases. Considering how companies worth hundreds of times what Jagex is worth have failed to significantly impact illegal markets of tangible goods such as DVDs and Video games, do you really think there's a chance of bringing someone to court over the sale of an intangible good? (Bearing in mind that the 'intangible' classification makes it impossible to prosecute in many countries with copyright laws, and significantly more difficult in the rest.)

 

Also, does anyone know how Jagex would prosecute someone over something like this? They are an English company, owned by American investors. I assume since they operate in England, English law applies. Let's say that selling RSGP is illegal in England (i have no idea whether it is or not, but just assume it is for now), would they be able to prosecute someone who lived in country X where it isn't illegal? I am genuinely curious, as I know next to nothing about law.

[Logdotzip]

Too funny - no really. This is hilarious.

 

I could give a tinker's cuss over what other people do in this game. I've watched in-game friends and other people, even players who have mod status on this forum, break in-game rules time and again, including account sharing, and I've simply ignored it. I'm not Jagex's shill and I've never held the line on anything they say and do with respect to how they manage the game. So you demonize rule breakers, yet willingly pass up the chance to "bring these people to justice". Sounds like you're encouraging them, which is against the rules of the game.

 

Is Jagex hypocritical? Sure they are! But two wrongs NEVER make a right. One day, you may realize that. If I had a nickel for every time I've seen you act condescending and speak down to people in this thread as if their mother, I'd be a rich man.

 

In any event, your efforts to display any RWTer's as some form of modern-day-virtual-Robin-Hood who steals from the rich to give to ... himself, are positively laughable. Yes! Laughable. Ridiculous! Downright ignorant. These people aren't "heroes". They're not to be admired or respected. They're the equivalent of small-time-dope-dealers who frequent elementary school-yards pedalling goods to unsuspecting children while their parents aren't watching. To compare people selling gold so that Joe the Plumber's son can buy some bandos to someone selling DRUGS to schoolkids is probably the most laughable thing I have read in this entire thread, and possibly from you period, to date. Are you serious with that shit?

 

Do you think you live in a vacuum? Really? Do you think that what you do has no effect on the people around you? You cannot display, time and again, the same notion that the world is your ashtray, while ignoring the fact that whatever actions you take have ripple effects elsewhere. It's called "the community". The same goes for people who RWT within the game itself. For every action, there is another reaction. Someone, somewhere, suffers the ill-effects of every single negative action they take. Since you are so adamant that everyone else have some sort of concrete evidence to back up any claims they make, I would like to see some from you regarding this stance. I would love to hear how Win All Day buying a mustang with some GP he sold has any impact on you, without enlisting the help of some improbable bullshit like the butterfly effect to aid you ("Well, since he's an RWTr, he has no respect for rules and will one day run a red and hit a pedestrian. RWT CAUSES DEATH, PEOPLE.")

 

To ignore that simple fact is to deny responsibility for your own actions. To assert that someone who is real world trading to improve their lifestyle isn't affecting anyone but himself is a complete and total schlock argument, based on no evidence whatsoever. You've tossed this notion out there about some altruistic RWT player who's thrown off the shackles of poverty to make their lives better while completely and utterly ignoring the swirling sewer that's been left in the wake behind him. Again, I would love to see some evidence behind your claim that people who sell gold are the problem. Clearly it's the people who buy gold that cause most of the problems. They are the reason a market exists in the first place.

 

.. and to excuse it by saying that "... well, Jagex are hypocrites ..." is a childish evasion -- tantamount to a "well THEY did it first", excuse. Really. One day, you may actually have children and one can only hope that you imbue them with a better sense of moral fiber than THAT. That is not something I did in my argument therefor I have no response to it.

 

Replies above in bold

[Auror]

Also, does anyone know how Jagex would prosecute someone over something like this? They are an English company, owned by American investors. I assume since they operate in England, English law applies. Let's say that selling RSGP is illegal in England (i have no idea whether it is or not, but just assume it is for now), would they be able to prosecute someone who lived in country X where it isn't illegal? I am genuinely curious, as I know next to nothing about law.

 

When downloading anyhting on the net, you have to read a Wall of Text (CoD, T&C, w/e, which many people skip anyways), then you have to click that you Agree. I have seen in most of those that there reads that the laws of the country X applies, even though you don't live there. I am not completely sure, but I think that it is so. So telling by that I think that in the CoC, which we have to read and then accept when we create our account(s), reads which country's laws applies. But as I said, I'm not completely sure.

[Auror]

Do you think you live in a vacuum? Really? Do you think that what you do has no effect on the people around you? You cannot display, time and again, the same notion that the world is your ashtray, while ignoring the fact that whatever actions you take have ripple effects elsewhere. It's called "the community". The same goes for people who RWT within the game itself. For every action, there is another reaction. Someone, somewhere, suffers the ill-effects of every single negative action they take. Since you are so adamant that everyone else have some sort of concrete evidence to back up any claims they make, I would like to see some from you regarding this stance. I would love to hear how Win All Day buying a mustang with some GP he sold has any impact on you, without enlisting the help of some improbable bullshit like the butterfly effect to aid you ("Well, since he's an RWTr, he has no respect for rules and will one day run a red and hit a pedestrian. RWT CAUSES DEATH, PEOPLE.")

 

Of course every action has an own affect to the community. I mean, look at the RWT'er scene: They justify their actions by saying "Well, this game has become shit because Jagex is moneyhungry, so now I decide to be moneyhungry myself and sell gold, because this game will die soon anyways, and don't forget, you would do the same if you had the chance to".

 

You (Log) should think of it from a different aspect.

 

Do you have an idea how the loyal players feel about that kind of moralless and desperate attempt of justifying RWT? And how they feel when people who ruing the game themselves tell how the game is going to end? FYI, it is [bleep]ing annoying. I hate how people keep telling that this game is dying because of Jagex's Mictrotransaction. The moralles and idiotic selfish people, who only think for themselves, who are egoistic, those are the reasons why the community -> the game has become shit. And not Jagex. Jagex wants to get more money, well woo-hoo, what for a [bleep]ing surprise if a profit-aiming company wants more profit, isn't it? Solomon Ads everywhere? Wow man, you're right, the game has become shit because of those ads. And the "flashing SoF ad in the middle of the game screen". Oh man, just click the [bleep]ing "X" to close the SoF ad and stfu.

 

That is what for an effect RWT'ing has on me, and on many many more players.

[Blyaunte]

So you demonize rule breakers, yet willingly pass up the chance to "bring these people to justice". Sounds like you're encouraging them, which is against the rules of the game.

 

I could name names, if you like, but it’d probably only result in my being banned from this site and then I’d never get the chance to annoy you.

 

My original point was that you were using too small a sample base on which to expound your cherry picking fallacy. I called shenanigans. But if you'd like to digress the discussion down this merry path, I've a few minutes to kill ...

 

If I had a nickel for every time I've seen you act condescending and speak down to people in this thread as if their mother, I'd be a rich man.

 

… and if I had a penny for every single time you boys acted like 12-year-olds, I’d be equally wealthy … :rolleyes:

 

Honestly, don't make me mother you. I will. You know I will. Don't make me turn this forum around! <.<

 

To compare people selling gold so that Joe the Plumber's son can buy some bandos to someone selling DRUGS to schoolkids is probably the most laughable thing I have read in this entire thread, and possibly from you period, to date. Are you serious with that shit?

 

I already explained the hyperbole – get over it …

 

Since you are so adamant that everyone else have some sort of concrete evidence to back up any claims they make, I would like to see some from you regarding this stance. I would love to hear how Win All Day buying a mustang with some GP he sold has any impact on you, without enlisting the help of some improbable bullshit like the butterfly effect to aid you ("Well, since he's an RWTr, he has no respect for rules and will one day run a red and hit a pedestrian. RWT CAUSES DEATH, PEOPLE.")

 

So you worship this clown because he bought a car? Really? A car? Wow! I must be getting old. I remember when people respected someone for the quality of their character … :unsure:

 

If you want evidence of the effect I am talking about. How about this case http:// http://www.inquisitr.com/299613/teen-held-at-gunpoint-over-runescape-coin-sale/[/url]? Do you remember it? You should -- you posted it here: http://forum.tip.it/topic/313796-kid-gets-robbed-over-rsgp/. :lol:

 

Again, I would love to see some evidence behind your claim that people who sell gold are the problem. Clearly it's the people who buy gold that cause most of the problems. They are the reason a market exists in the first place.

 

Ah yes – that’s right. The old “if it weren’t for ________ there wouldn’t be _______” fallacy. Chickens, eggs, whatever -- it really doesn’t matter. One goes hand-in-glove with the other. Just because someone does something stupid, it doesn’t make the person taking advantage of that stupidity morally or socially superior, in any way whatsoever. Again, it speaks to the character of the individual, but since you're only concern appears to be what kind of bling someone has, there isn't much point in explaining it to you.

[Kaida23]

Don't make me turn this forum around! <.<

 

[spoiler=THAT'S IT! BACK TO WINNIPEG!]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJEcqxgbbJU

 

:lol:

[Randox]

Why would a chance of bringing someone to court over breaking the law have any impact on legality. I could conceivably go my entire life without ever getting a speeding ticket, even if I speed from time to time. That doesn't make it legal, and it's not exactly sound justification for breaking the law.

 

Prosecution is done within the offenders country. To try them under British law, you would have to extradite them (unless they are already in Britain). Also, there is already legal precedent in several countries that an intagible good can be stolen (as in actual theft); precedents set involving RSGP. The circumstances are different, and it was actual theft and not copy infringement, but I would imagine that still shows that the courts can consider.

[Stev]

How do people selling their gold at all negatively affect the community? I agreed with the statement above that it is the buyers who do.

 

Everyone can agree that RWT companies are responsible for the largest portion of bots in RuneScape. This is the only reason RWT affects anyone in game.

 

If I were to sell gold to a company, does that encourage them to bot? No, it does quite the opposite. They no longer need bots to collect that few billion. Or, I could not sell to them and they can collect their entire stock from green or blue dragons, from thieving, etc. One way or another, they will collect their stock.

 

If people think it ruins the game that people can buy their way in-game with their IRL wallets, they need to play another game. This is, and was, already possible through Jagex themselves. I'm sure their argument will be much like the main stance against bots. "I worked hard getting my 99 Hunter legitimately and Player_X simply botted it, making my accomplishments lesser." *Cough* SoF.

 

 

So, I'll ask again, since it's not yet been answered. How, in any way, does selling gold to a company negatively affect the game? Don't beat around the bush. Give me a real example and a real reason.

 

Again, it speaks to the character of the individual

I really shouldn't comment on this, but what does it say about someone's character when clan members have to wait to mine a star until their clan leader has touched it for the bonus XP? These people are choosing to break petty in-game rules (selling) which, you have yet to prove, does not at all affect anyone else to advance themselves in real life. Yeah, that says a lot.