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Magus or Alchemist would both be awesome. Problem is that most of the good potions do -2 int damage. At 3 you're uncontrollable, at 0 you're comatose.

Also, if you were to be a fighter you should probably go vampire due to the strength, dex and grapple bonuses.

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Actually that +5 is only responsible for 30 damage. Most of the damage comes from INT bonus to fire damage.

 

Point-Blank shot + Precise Shot = +3

Burn! Burn! Burn! = 1d4

Fire Bombardier = +INT(6 at most without boost)

Dragon's Breath = 2d6

 

Double-barrel = Two shots at a time.

Rapid Reload = Free action to reload.

 

BAB(6) + Rapid Shot = Shoot three times.

 

Overall that's 3*2(2d6+1d4+9) or 12d6+6d4+54 damage.

 

 

I estimate it's around the maximum damage potential for a level 8 with such a limited amount of factors.

 

There are a few problems with that. With DPR, it is necessary to factor in other things. For example, the DC 15 Reflex save is basically achieved 80% of the time at this level, so would cut the damage output by 40% or so. In addition, the fire-arm gains the broken condition when it misfires, which is everytime you roll a 1 on one of those d6s. That further reduces the damage (I could do a statistical evaluation, but it takes it down further). Without accounting for that, we have 61.2 damage as the average damage.

 

Personally I don't mind that you are discussing these things, as long as it doesn't spill over too much into the game. :)

 

 

>Or if it does, maybe you could optimize a character concept that doesn't usually work with game mechanics, like a whip-using bard (I'm partial to whip using bards)

Master of your domain? I am Lord of the manor, Queen of the castle, King of the county!

 

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The Dragon cartridges work with a different system of misfire though, so the reliable enchantment does not affect using them.

Master of your domain? I am Lord of the manor, Queen of the castle, King of the county!

 

Former moderator of the original Dungeoneering

Former moderator of Ye Olde Hegemony

Moderator of the remake of Dungeoneering

Former Empress of the Lichten Empire (Hegemony)

Former President of the United States (Hegemony)

Former Emporer of Imperial Japan (Hegemony)

Czarina Catherine of Imperial Russia (Hegemony

 

 

The only difference between a disagreement between friends, an argument between strangers, and a feud between enemies is the ability to reconcile.

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Thats amazing...The thing I said 2-3 weeks ago turned out to be the stumbing block...

 

 

Furthermore doing 3 shots per round is a Full Attack, which means you can only take a 5 foot step.

Unless the enemies are directly on top of you, in which case you need to soak up their damage, you can't use the 15 feet cone.

 

So let us assume you (By which I mean Lei) have been attacked by a Vampire.

You shoot it 3 times with your rifle, scoring...14, 15 and 7 to hit. So 15 damage, reduces to 0 by the DR.

 

The Vampire assumes Gaseous Form and flies towards you at 20 feet per round, using cover as it can.

You continue plugging away shots, 9, 6, 10, 5, 8, 16, 4, 8 and finally a 20. But alas, in Gaseous form it is immune to critical hits.

 

You decide that wasting ammo on this fight is silly and you wait for it to come into range. It gets to 30 feet and casts Dominate on you.

10+5+2 =17

You roll a 4. Add that to your will...3

Unfortunately 7 doesn't beat the DC and so you turn on your good friend, Mather and shoot him.

You get a new Will Save, 9 this time. Still too low.

 

Mather rolls 15 on his Reflex save, which passes, so Mather only takes half damage

Damage roll is (12d6)37 + (6d4)14 + 54 = 105 /2

=52

 

Assuming you rolled all eights you have 72 HP, so you are now down to 20 HP.

 

Its Mather's turn, he do something that doesn't really tip the balance back into your favour...Lets say he attack the Vampire with his Pen. He roll a 4 on the attack, which misses.

 

The Vampire unassumes gaseous form, and attempts to grapple Mather, rolls a 9+7=16, which you can make, so doesn't effect him.

 

Lei stands there grinning idle.

 

Mather attack with his Pen, rolling a 3.

 

Vampire 5

 

Mather, success, at last, a 20. You deal some damage.

 

The Vampire rolls a 16+7=23, which I would assume hits. It drains 1 Con point from Mather, dealing 5 damage, and heals 5 HP.

 

Mather attack, 6.

 

The Vampire continues the grapple and attacks Mather. 13+8, which I assume hits. Doing 4+4 damage, plus 2 Negative energy levels. And Mather takes 4 Con damage (Which is 20 HP, so he is dead, but I forgot so...), and the Vampire heals 20.

 

Mather rolls an 11, which usually hits, but with the 2 negative levels fails.

 

Vampire rolls 15. Doing 1+4 damage, plus 2 negative levels and 2 Con damage, healing the Vampire for 10.

 

Mather rolls a 10.

 

Vampire rolls a 20, but fails to confirm. dealing 2+4 damage, plus 2 negative damage and 3 Con damage.

 

Mather lies on the ground, dead.

 

Lei goes off to serve her new master.

 

3 days later Mather rises as a Vampire Spawn, just in time to be fireballed to death by Garmund.

 

So ends the tale of Mather and Lei.

Well I knew you wouldn't agree. I know how you hate facing facts.

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[hide]

Rapid Reload (Combat)

 

Choose a type of crossbow (hand, light, heavy) or a single type of one-handed or two-handed firearm that you are proficient with. You can reload such a weapon quickly.

Prerequisites: Weapon Proficiency (crossbow type chosen) or Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearm).

Benefit: The time required for you to reload your chosen type of weapon is reduced to a free action (for a hand or light crossbow), a move action (for heavy crossbow or one-handed firearm), or a standard action (two-handed firearm). Reloading a crossbow or firearm still provokes attacks of opportunity.

If you have selected this feat for a hand crossbow or light crossbow, you may fire that weapon as many times in a full-attack action as you could attack if you were using a bow.

Normal: A character without this feat needs a move action to reload a hand or light crossbow, a standard action to reload a one-handed firearm, or a full-round action to load a heavy crossbow or a two-handed firearm.

Special: You can gain Rapid Reload multiple times. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of crossbow or a new type of firearm.

[/hide]

 

Are we talking about an alternate Rapid Reload here, or is it GM fiat? Not to say that I am against GM fiat, but I am just curious where you are getting free action reloading from.

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I think he's factoring in the lightening reload deed (which requires him to be 11th level). Also, a +7 equivalent weapon really rapes the WBL, as in it costs ~90k gold, which is much more than a 10th, much less an 8th level character can afford.

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No, I am factoring in the fact that advanced firearms, regardless of handedness, are as fast to reload as Light and Hand Crossbows, and are applicable for the Feat.

 

And Archi, you forgot to factor in the fact that Lei can without penalty fire into a melee, that the Vampire as an umarmed foe is Flatfooted against my pen, that I have a whip which I can use to perform tactical combat maneuvers, that whenever I get an AoO, that turns into three of them, that Lei could at any time use a grit feature against the Vampire, that I could cast Summon Monster III to increase our numbers, that I could have cast Enthrall followed by Charm Person to keep the Vampire busy, that Lei could have used the Experimental Blunderbluss to deal twice the damage while the Vampire was at a range where that was suitable in terms of reload time and that I could use Suggestion and Dirge of Doom against the Vampire.

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As I recall, Undead are immune to mind-affecting abilities and spells.

 

You can't use both the whip and the pen while retaining the ability to cast most spells, unless you have Quick Draw?

 

Grit doesn't do much.

 

Vampires, by virtue of not being idiots, would probably ignore your summons, but that's up to the GM.

 

What's an experimental blunderbuss?

10:53 PM - retech9691: I feel the need
10:53 PM - retech9691: To include many chasms in my story arc
10:53 PM - Resistance: You mean plotholes?

 

Remember, Remember, the 4th of November

RIP Dawngate ;-;

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I would like to point out I still CONTROL my character, Mather isn't allowed to make choices for me. Suggestions fine, but I'm still in control.

 

On the side note, can someone explain why Holo isn't allowed at whatever place the other person showed up at? I wasn't here when that happened. All I know is that somebody did something to cause banishment(?) and Holo isn't allowed there. Or is it me that's not allowed there since I'm an "outsider"?

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The blunderbluss is the weapon she attaches her inovations to as an experimental gunsmith.

And grit is really limited because the effects would be OP if not.

 

And not all undead are imune to mind affecting effects, only braindead or brainless ones, which have it explicitly stated.

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All undead are immune to all mind-affecting effects unless explicitly noted otherwise.

 

It's harder to bullshit when the subject matter is (generally) clearly stated and readily available, ain't it?

 

@Neferast: I'm sorry but I love that post too much. Do you mind if I put it in my sig/marry you?

10:53 PM - retech9691: I feel the need
10:53 PM - retech9691: To include many chasms in my story arc
10:53 PM - Resistance: You mean plotholes?

 

Remember, Remember, the 4th of November

RIP Dawngate ;-;

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Lei, mather isn't allowed back because he was involved in a plot to kill multiple players (myself, and nex at least), and after that failed (read; I killed nereus and captured mather) he was sent off to the duergar and effectively banished. Also, don't try to come back, as if you do (after having been sent to Absalom) you will be killed (either by suffocation, dragon, or being sent to the positive energy plane).

 

EDIT: Also, mather, if all classes are given 100k+ to work with, they can do some pretty scary things at 8th level, think sorcerer tossing around quicked dazing fireballs and some such (which would have a DC of something like 21), or a cavalier with boots of haste/ an enchanted lance built for charging, or really any class (hell, even the monk).

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Actually my interest in that mision was solely one for self-preservation. You can talk all high and mighty about how I was involved in planning a mission that would involve killing you and Nex, but that doesn't change the fact that it was still a rescue mission to stop my own execution.

 

And given 100k to work with, this goblin firebomber of mine could probably do damage of upwards to 300 to everyone within radius. Yes, the attack is still area of effect, and not just focused damage.

 

 

All undead are immune to all mind-affecting effects unless explicitly noted otherwise.

 

It's harder to bullshit when the subject matter is (generally) clearly stated and readily available, ain't it?

So tell me where it says that: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/creature-types#TOC-Undead

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It has a certain flair, I think, for a Necromancer to banish his enemies to the Positive Energy Plane.

 

Bonus if you yell 'BURN IN THE EVERLASTING HELLFIRE OF CREATION! BE UTTERLY ANNIHILATED DOWN TO THE VERY LAST SCRAP OF DEE-EN-AY!'

10:53 PM - retech9691: I feel the need
10:53 PM - retech9691: To include many chasms in my story arc
10:53 PM - Resistance: You mean plotholes?

 

Remember, Remember, the 4th of November

RIP Dawngate ;-;

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Actually my interest in that mision was solely one for self-preservation. You can talk all high and mighty about how I was involved in planning a mission that would involve killing you and Nex, but that doesn't change the fact that it was still a rescue mission to stop my own execution.

 

And given 100k to work with, this goblin firebomber of mine could probably do damage of upwards to 300 to everyone within radius. Yes, the attack is still area of effect, and not just focused damage.

 

 

All undead are immune to all mind-affecting effects unless explicitly noted otherwise.

 

It's harder to bullshit when the subject matter is (generally) clearly stated and readily available, ain't it?

So tell me where it says that: http://www.d20pfsrd....ypes#TOC-Undead

  • Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).

10:53 PM - retech9691: I feel the need
10:53 PM - retech9691: To include many chasms in my story arc
10:53 PM - Resistance: You mean plotholes?

 

Remember, Remember, the 4th of November

RIP Dawngate ;-;

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Thanks grim for the explanation. Though, I don't really see how a person like me should also be hated just because I washed ashore onto the same beach as a guy (well, girl, but we all understand what i mean) who messed up.

 

I'm practically harmless anyway, since I have only really ran into 2 actual players and haven't really needed to have a grudge on anyone besides other 3 foot shorties.

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I'm starting to wonder how the [bleep] I managed to miss that after reading through it five times or so. This feels like one of those times when you're frantically searching for something, and then when you after half an hour ask someone if they've seen it, it's lying right there on the table.

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I'm starting to wonder how the [bleep] I managed to miss that after reading through it five times or so. This feels like one of those times when you're frantically searching for something, and then when you after half an hour ask someone if they've seen it, it's lying right there on the table.

To save you much future grief; the glasses are on your head

10:53 PM - retech9691: I feel the need
10:53 PM - retech9691: To include many chasms in my story arc
10:53 PM - Resistance: You mean plotholes?

 

Remember, Remember, the 4th of November

RIP Dawngate ;-;

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And Archi, you forgot to factor in the fact that Lei can without penalty fire into a melee
#

Ah, you misunderstand me...Since she failed the Will save (In the example) she is just the Vampire's Thrall and so it irrelevant from then on. (If the Vampire made her attack you then she would be required to make more Will Saves, and the Vampire has no reason to risk her becoming free.

Equally the Vampire could have just dominated both of you.

Experimental Blunderbluss to deal twice the damage while the Vampire was at a range where that was suitable

5*2=10, which is still less than the Vampire's DR, so the damage would have been non-existant.

 

that the Vampire as an umarmed foe is Flatfooted against my pen

Vampires have a FFAC of 18. Your 3 and 4 were insufficent to match this number.

 

It has touch AC of 17, so Deadeye is a no go.

It never directly attacked Lei so Gunslinger's Dodge is a no go.

You went first so Gunslinger's initative is a no go.

Lei was never in Melee range so Pistol whip is a no go.

None of the 3 utility shots would have helped.

Deadshot may have been useful, though she would have done....5 damage per round, after DR, and she has a limited number of Grit Points.

Startling Shot wouldn't have helped, given that you can't shoot as a move action.

None of the Targeting abilities would particularly help, and it would become immune in Gaseous form.

 

And thats all them...

 

If you had used your Whip then you could have done a few things...But at that point it had 102 HP (Or we could say 77 if Lei spent all her grit points on deadshotting it, and hit all of them.) If it grappled you (or you grappled it) then it would have started healing, tripping it over would have been viable, though with a CMD of 24 would have only succeeded occassionally...Added to which Whips don't work on creatures with a natural AC higher than 3...Vampire has 6.

 

You could have summoned some monsters, which may or may not have been effective. Though as we can see from the PVP session a powerful enemy can easily dispatch them.

 

Enthrall has already been dealt with, Dirge of Doom and Suggestion fall into the same catagory.

 

No, I am factoring in the fact that advanced firearms, regardless of handedness, are as fast to reload as Light and Hand Crossbows, and are applicable for the Feat.

 

Loading a Firearm: You need at least one hand free to load one-handed and two-handed firearms. In the case of two-handed firearms, you hold the weapon in one hand and load it with the other—you only need to hold it in two hands to aim and shoot the firearm. Loading siege firearms requires both hands, and one hand usually manipulates a large ramrod (which can be wielded as a club in combat). The Rapid Reload feat reduces the time required to load one-handed and two-handed firearms, but this feat does not reduce the time it takes to load siege firearms.

 

It doesn't say anything about the 'advancement' of the firearm.

And if we look at the Firearm's table a Rifle is definately a 2-handed Firearm...So what are you basing your argument on?

 

Also, on a point of logic, Rifles can take even longer to load than muskets, due to the rifling making it difficult to insert the cartridge. If it is breech loading then drawing back the lock, inserting the bullet and pushing the lock forward again takes at least 3 seconds...half a round.

(Muzzle loaded guns would typically take 15-30 seconds to reload, if the operator was sufficently drilled, though the designers of the game reduced that for obvious reasons)

 

One of the tediously annoying things about Pathfinder...and the majority of games played with other people...Is that what we know to be accurate needs to be confirmed by the designers and/or the GM. If you talk to Retech and he says 'Yeah, I think that is fine' then we all accept it...or grumble to retech about it. If you are just 'fixing' something then there are two approaches you can take:

1) You make the changes and hope no one spots them. If they do then you can hope the GM comes to see your point of view.

2) You can ask the GM and hope they see your point of view.

 

The second is obviously preferable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, for reference, I have no issue with Mather or Lei coming back.

His part in events was that of a victim.

However I won't stop Grim from exacting retribution if he sees fit.

Well I knew you wouldn't agree. I know how you hate facing facts.

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Archi, you don't have a problem with me coming "back" because your character doesn't know me anyways!

 

It seems rather impossible for anyone to really hate my character since I only just washed up on some beach on some unknown island two sessions ago. And I've only met two players/people and haven't killed either if them (granted the fact that I only met one for like a couple of minutes and the other is the only person I (as in my character) knows that seems friendly).

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What the recent combat session showed is that even in an otherwise futile situation, three casts of Summon Monster III can turn the table. If not for the fact that Retech's character was deliberately overpowered, I would have either won or brought it down to a close finish. (For those that weren't there, this is the truth, not exaggeration, we're talking overpowered to the point where even natural twenties resulted in checks too low to pass through either AC, Will or Reflex. I was the only one to damage that monstrosity, once with fire damage when it attacked my Fire Elemental, and once with an unavoidable AoE spell that could only be cast once. The only one here to my knowledge that has a high enough attack bonus to hit it is Lei with her rifle.)

 

As for reloading advanced firearms, if you had just read the sub-sections, you would have seen it right away:

Advanced Firearms: Advanced firearms are chamber-loaded. It is a move action to load a one-handed or two-handed advanced firearm to its full capacity.

 

And the use of grit could have been performed the moment the vampire regained material form, with one shot to the head (which would hit, no matter what (+20 attack versus AC 17)) would confuse the Vampire, allowing Lei to tear it apart with her four blades in melee.

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