Locking that I don't agree with

[Resistance]

I thought that locking this thread was wrong.

 

http://forum.tip.it/...ll-white-staff/

 

 

"First of all, you honestly have zero evidence that Jagex only hires white people. In fact, one of the JMods I chatted with at RuneFest (and communicated with regularly as a fan site admin) was not white. They have a staff of over 200 people and we've honestly only seen a couple of those in videos.

 

In any case, we're going to lock this thread because 1) Off-Topic is for conversations not related to RuneScape/Jagex, and 2) because your claims are baseless and we don't see much point in sitting here and arguing about it."

 

- Tripsis

 

I think that Tripsis is terrible as an admin personally, although I know that nobody actually cares what I think about that and nothing will ever get done since she's been an admin for such a long time. Although I hope that some of the admins can take this down as a vote of no confidence and not a personal attack.

 

Anyway, back to the actual point. I don't really think that the locking of this thread was very fair.

First, it could have been moved to general if it was not in the right place.

Second, if an admin disagrees then they should post their opinion. Tripsis posted her opinion and since it was so far from the opinion of the thread, which was actually well thought-out it was locked, at least that's what I'm getting from the message.

"The claims are baseless" - what. He said that he looked through videos to find it the information. Even so, a discussion into Jagex's hireing policy getting banned by a mod seems fairly suspicious to me.

 

 

I really don't agree with this 'lock/hide anything you don't agree with' sort of attitude, especially on an intelligent well thought out discussion like this, seemingly at the whim of an admin.

[Nexaduro]

They will take it as a personal attack. It sort of is. That said, I don't disagree on all counts.

 

I don't know why you linked me to this though, I have no relevance to the debate. It seems silly.

[Bxpprod]

Enjoy another lock to [bleep] about.

[Resistance]

Enjoy another lock to [bleep] about.

Good contribution mate.

 

 

If that's the sort of accepted attitude, then that really proves that what I'm saying is a regular thing - badmins locking what they don't agree with. I think some sort of clear overhaul needs to be made, because at the moment I just see admins interpreting the rules to mean whatever they want. Especially so, because the rules are unclear as to what constitutes what and to what level things are allowed.

[Sy_Accursed]

I don't think it was unfair at all. A obviously controversial for the sake of it thread with 0 evidence isn't good discussion. Plus last I checked Vodka B in the runecast videos wasn't white let alone other employees eg the ones Tripis referenced and several seen in photos from runefest events. And this is not the way to deal with what you deem unfair lockings, this is just trying to create a shitstorm.

 

And tbf even if Jagex DID have only white employees currently it's a non-discussion. Just because we live in a multi-ethnic society doesn't magically make multi-ethnic people apply for the jobs or be the best candidate. So even a company of Jagex's size (like 200ish people) it is entirely possible to have all 1 race by pure chance.

[Stev]

That thread was locked for a few reasons reasons. If a thread has little discussion value - we lock it. If a thread has a high possibility of leading to a flame war - we lock it. If the thread has potential to turn into a racial fight - we lock it. While we hope and prefer people remain civil and mature, some things can be taken the wrong way, people can overreact, and things happen.

 

We don't lock threads because we disagree with them. Hell, if that were the case over half the threads on Tip.It wouldn't exist. And, to be quite frank, the thread just wasn't true. Add that to the first paragraph of this post... It had it coming. :P.

[Quyneax]

I don't see why you would think that Tripsis made the decision to lock by herself. We do confer about these things you know >.>. No fair blaming the person who's wrapping things up.

[Guest Smelly Paws]

I can see why they locked that. Its one of those tired old posts that serves no purpose except stir up (none-existant) accusations of racism. If anything it should have been locked sooner.

[Resistance]

I don't see why you would think that Tripsis made the decision to lock by herself. We do confer about these things you know >.>. No fair blaming the person who's wrapping things up.

 

I think that Tripsis is bad for other reasons, not just this.

 

I can see why they locked that. Its one of those tired old posts that serves no purpose except stir up (none-existant) accusations of racism. If anything it should have been locked sooner.

See, that's the issue. There is a lot of discussion value, and regardless of whether it is a little controversial there is actually evidence from which the person stated - he said that he couldn't see anybody coloured in the video releases.

[Sy_Accursed]

That is not 'evidence' of anything; especially when you consider Vodka B from Runecast wasn't even white, she was at the very least mixed race. But judging by the name and colouring I'd be inclined to say she was Indian in origin, even if she was born and raised entirely in the uk.

 

Evidence of such a broad reaching claim requires more than just oh like the 10 folks in the videos of a 200+ employee company were all white. And even then all it would be evidence of is that white people work there, not the racist conspiracy theories churn out in that post.

 

There's no discussion value at all in a baseless, evidence-less, nonsense, conspiracy theory of racist intent within Jagex - it's just controversial BS thats only purpose is to try and stoke anger either from people dumb enough to believe it or from those who will be immediately labelled 'racist' if they disagree with all the "evidence"

[Guest Smelly Paws]

See, that's the issue. There is a lot of discussion value, and regardless of whether it is a little controversial there is actually evidence from which the person stated - he said that he couldn't see anybody coloured in the video releases.

 

I'm with Sy on this. Just because no-one coloured is seen doesn't make them racist.

 

When political correctness was at its height a few years ago you'd have had a number of people falling over themselves over this type of thing, particularly goverment workers. These days in an organisation people look at you and state 'Obviously your real job isn't keeping you busy enough'. It's just an expensive waste of time and people got bored of those accusations years ago. Unless you can 'prove' it it's a dead argument.

[obfuscator]

The "evidence" in that thread was equivalent to "There are no motorcycles on the road because there isn't one next to me". It was a stupid thread that definitely should have been locked.

 

I've certainly taken issue with overzealous moderation here in the past, many times...but I wouldn't call this such an incident.

 

[chenw]

I think that Tripsis is bad for other reasons, not just this.

 

So you are basically using this as an excuse to bash Tripsis because she happens to be the one doing the locking?

 

That's basically shooting the messenger because you don't like the messenger...

[Resistance]

I think that Tripsis is bad for other reasons, not just this.

 

So you are basically using this as an excuse to bash Tripsis because she happens to be the one doing the locking?

 

That's basically shooting the messenger because you don't like the messenger...

 

I think that's a very serious accusation to make, and you should be careful about what you saw before you post it.

[Sy_Accursed]

I think that Tripsis is bad for other reasons, not just this.

 

So you are basically using this as an excuse to bash Tripsis because she happens to be the one doing the locking?

 

That's basically shooting the messenger because you don't like the messenger...

 

I think that's a very serious accusation to make, and you should be careful about what you saw before you post it.

 

No more serious than accusing a company of being racist on the flimsy premise of the 10 or so folks in their videos are all white (even though one of them wasn't).

[Guest Smelly Paws]

I think that's a very serious accusation to make, and you should be careful about what you saw before you post it.

 

Ooo I think pot and kettle is quite an apt phrase here............

 

Honestly Neferast, you're about 4 years too late for all this.

[The Observer]

There was very little evidence to base your topic on. Honestly, it would have caused more harm than good by keeping it open.

[Resistance]

ITT: Ex-moderators blindly supporting the moderation with no real idea of what is actually going on. This is what I really hate about tip.it, it's a hive mind.

[Sy_Accursed]

Just because people agree does not mean they blindly follow or indicate a hive mind.

 

We are all individuals with our own views, just because we all happen to agree and be against you is no indicative of a 'hive mind' or blind support - it is indicative that that thread was utter BS we agree should've been locked. And we all have a clear idea of what is going on - A thread making wild baseless accusations was locked because it held no discussion, had no evidence and only served to be inflammatory. In the wake of this you have made an issue out of it due to some personal hatred of Tripsis and belief that the locking was wrong and that Tripsis worked alone. You have been informed the moderation choice was not made alone, had others agree the locking was correct and have since got defensive throwing out comments about people making serious accusations and following a mythical hive mind with, once again, nothing in the way of evidence or ground to stand on. What more exactly is there to know?

 

I'd also point out of those who have replied here mostly are NOT ex-moderators at all. Killerred and Obfuscator were at one time, but Smelly Paws, Chenw, Angry Aussie(?) Nexaduro and myself are not.

[obfuscator]

ITT: Ex-moderators blindly supporting the moderation with no real idea of what is actually going on. This is what I really hate about tip.it, it's a hive mind.

 

Is there something we don't know about? Because what I saw was a stupid topic getting locked...not sure how much more there can be to it than that.

[Mercifull]

I can add to the list of NON ex mods who think the lock was justified as well.

 

According to Census 2011 for Cambridge the population of all "White" ethnicities (sum of White; English/Welsh/Scottish/Northern Irish/British, White; Irish, White; Gypsy or Irish Traveller and White; Other White) is 82.5%.

 

In the UK when you apply for a job we have equality laws which means things like age and ethnicity are kept separate from the recruitment process so you can't discriminate when holding interviews for jobs.

 

Not that I really need to justify with figures like this because we KNOW that Jagex has employees of all ethnicities and backgrounds. You can see it in thier BTS videos, the PoP sea shanty and I saw them myself, at RuneFest.

 

I don't know what your beef is with Tripsis but on this subject at least you are wrong wrong wong.

 

 

 

 

Disclosure: I've met Tripsis in real life and shes a lovely woman.

[Resistance]

See, you're having a mature discussion about it now. This could have gone on in the thread.

 

Personally, I think that the post was removed because criticism of Jagex may cause tip.it to lose its platinum status.

[chenw]

The reason why the thread was locked is because the thread was discussing an issue that is deemed sensitive given the cultural history of the West, pretty much the same as how pretty much every religion discussion will always end up people hurling bad posts at each other. Not to also mention the fact that it's speculative, and no actual concrete evidence beyond their Videos.

 

If we really did care about losing the so-called 'platinum' status, then we probably have locked every thread that mentioned Jagex in a negative way.

 

If the thread arguments hold, couldn't we then sue almost every woman cosmetic company for sexist preference in employee because their models are all female? Maybe do those for male cosmetics too? Maybe sue most governments in the world for showing preference to male politicians to female politicians? Or perhaps sue them for using white females in preference to other races, because of the globalness of their products?

 

If the thread wants to pull the racism card, then there better be damn good proof, because otherwise it is just another baseless attack on the company itself, which, despite all the grudges I have against the company, is unneeded, counter productive and will end with deeper resent by both sides of the argument, and serve absolutely no purpose other than tainting the company's image, regardless of whether it is needed or not.

 

The thread was well locked, as it is not fit for discussion, at all, in any shape or form. Not even by those who are resistant/immune to the racism cards.

[vmser]

See, you're having a mature discussion about it now. This could have gone on in the thread.

 

Personally, I think that the post was removed because criticism of Jagex may cause tip.it to lose its platinum status.

 

That's the catch - the discussion could be mature, the initial statement was rather.. childish. The lack of any actual facts on the ethnicity of jagex staff makes this no more then a wild guess, which hardly puts you in a position to make accusations of any sorts towards jagex on their hiring policy.

Lashing out at an admin - even beyond the scope of the discussion of locking it or not - was a low blow, and was uncalled for.

 

That said - Mercifull makes a really valid point on the census data. If jagex staff is to be mirrored by anything, it'd be UK population over a representation of it's player base.

Also - it's an employers choice who they want to hire. If they insist on hiring 'local' people that are less skilled then a candidate from a different ethnicity - and thus being less cost-efficient tot the company - that's their own call to make.

And not to forget, at my own job I've seen people apply with far higher qualifications then I did, but that didn't get hired due to my boss thinking they wouldn't 'fit' within the team.

 

Just for reference - Had the post been asking if anyone had any data on the ethnicity of jagex staff members, rather then starting out for blaming them being 'white', that'd have been an entirely different approach to the discussion. There's plenty criticism towards jagex on this board (alot regarding ivp, mtx, sof, ..) so I fail to see your point there.

[Resistance]

The reason why the thread was locked is because the thread was discussing an issue that is deemed sensitive given the cultural history of the West, pretty much the same as how pretty much every religion discussion will always end up people hurling bad posts at each other. Not to also mention the fact that it's speculative, and no actual concrete evidence beyond their Videos.

 

If we really did care about losing the so-called 'platinum' status, then we probably have locked every thread that mentioned Jagex in a negative way.

 

If the thread arguments hold, couldn't we then sue almost every woman cosmetic company for sexist preference in employee because their models are all female? Maybe do those for male cosmetics too? Maybe sue most governments in the world for showing preference to male politicians to female politicians? Or perhaps sue them for using white females in preference to other races, because of the globalness of their products?

 

If the thread wants to pull the racism card, then there better be damn good proof, because otherwise it is just another baseless attack on the company itself, which, despite all the grudges I have against the company, is unneeded, counter productive and will end with deeper resent by both sides of the argument, and serve absolutely no purpose other than tainting the company's image, regardless of whether it is needed or not.

 

The thread was well locked, as it is not fit for discussion, at all, in any shape or form. Not even by those who are resistant/immune to the racism cards.

 

No, but they are removing threads where people accuse Jagex of illegal activity. I wouldn't put it past the Tip.It moderation to do something like that - I'm sure they have plenty of skeletons in their closets.

 

Jagex seems to have a history of preventing free speech, remember when the RSoF replaced rants with a few threads?

 

No, makeup models needing to be female comes under bona fide occupational qualifications.

 

Proof was given, if you actually look at the thread he has said that he has not seen a SINGLE coloured member in the videos.

 

See, you're having a mature discussion about it now. This could have gone on in the thread.

 

Personally, I think that the post was removed because criticism of Jagex may cause tip.it to lose its platinum status.

 

That's the catch - the discussion could be mature, the initial statement was rather.. childish. The lack of any actual facts on the ethnicity of jagex staff makes this no more then a wild guess, which hardly puts you in a position to make accusations of any sorts towards jagex on their hiring policy.

Lashing out at an admin - even beyond the scope of the discussion of locking it or not - was a low blow, and was uncalled for.

 

That said - Mercifull makes a really valid point on the census data. If jagex staff is to be mirrored by anything, it'd be UK population over a representation of it's player base.

Also - it's an employers choice who they want to hire. If they insist on hiring 'local' people that are less skilled then a candidate from a different ethnicity - and thus being less cost-efficient tot the company - that's their own call to make.

And not to forget, at my own job I've seen people apply with far higher qualifications then I did, but that didn't get hired due to my boss thinking they wouldn't 'fit' within the team.

 

Just for reference - Had the post been asking if anyone had any data on the ethnicity of jagex staff members, rather then starting out for blaming them being 'white', that'd have been an entirely different approach to the discussion. There's plenty criticism towards jagex on this board (alot regarding ivp, mtx, sof, ..) so I fail to see your point there.

 

"Jagex will be 100% white, because 85% of the population is white. We may have a token black member"

 

This is an affirmative action debate, which would have been an intelligent discussion. Personally, I think that Jagex's intentional exclusion of 15% of the population requires some quotas however seemingly certain people don't care about the problem of racism.It's such a racist thing to say.