Silver Feedback (June)

[Stev]

You realize the terrible logic behind that post only applies if he also believes he has no place in the community. Simply because he's asking for ways to improve does not in any means imply that he feels useless. And I'm curious... Tip.It had a survey recently where they asked damn near the same questions, only worded differently. Was that us realizing we had no role to play and thus looking for a job description? He's looking for ways to better server you and the active RuneScape community, and all you've done thus far is jump down his throat about how his position is pointless and only a status symbol. Give him a way that it'll be more then a status symbol in your eyes instead of:

Oh - I don't know - how about a mass resignation?

The actual suggestion thus far have been good.

[Blyaunte]

You realize the terrible logic behind that post only applies if he also believes he has no place in the community. Simply because he's asking for ways to improve does not in any means imply that he feels useless. And I'm curious... Tip.It had a survey recently where they asked damn near the same questions, only worded differently. Was that us realizing we had no role to play and thus looking for a job description? He's looking for ways to better server you and the active RuneScape community, and all you've done thus far is jump down his throat about how his position is pointless and only a status symbol. Give him a way that it'll be more then a status symbol in your eyes instead of:

Oh - I don't know - how about a mass resignation?

The actual suggestion thus far have been good.

… and, of course, that is where you are wrong.

 

He may or may not have already realized that his role as a PMod is redundant. Whether or not he “believes” the role to be redundant is irrelevant. It’s redundant. Period.

 

Chances are, he’s had an inkling of it. The base reality that over the past “x” period of time he’s had literally nothing to do as a PMod is likely coming clear to him, one way or another. That’s why he’s asked us to provide him with a job description.

 

The ideas offered here are mere grasps at straws trying to save a role that no longer has any purpose.

 

By the way, aside from taking your usual automatic nay-saying alternative point of view from my own, you might actually take a look at what everyone else has said and come to the realization that I’m right.

 

I realize that you’ve got this thing where you’re always got to try and discredit me, and attack everything I say, but perhaps you should, you know, try to take a less obvious stance this time?

 

Just sayin’ …

[Stev]

And again, the position being redundant is your opinion. Grasping at straws or not, the position still exists and therefore can be saved and still has potential, what little it may be. I've personally found PMods to be rather useful over the years, though primarily for muting (which I still use them for when a spammer joins FC or CC ). But then again, isn't the general idea of a mod to enforce the rules? So, right now, they're doing everything I'd expect them to.

[Blyaunte]

And again, the position being redundant is your opinion. Grasping at straws or not, the position still exists and therefore can be saved and still has potential, what little it may be. I've personally found PMods to be rather useful over the years, though primarily for muting (which I still use them for when a spammer joins FC or CC ). But then again, isn't the general idea of a mod to enforce the rules? So, right now, they're doing everything I'd expect them to.

… and again, the fact that it is “my position” is irrelevant.

 

When a role exists that serves no purpose any longer, and/or cannot or does not perform the tasks for which it was originally designed, it is therefore redundant.

 

When one attempts to tack on additional tasks to said role, in particular tasks which are already performed by automation and self-discipline, in an effort to try and other redeem said role, it doesn’t alter the fact that the role is still redundant.

 

:rolleyes:

[Saradomin_Mage]

When a role exists that serves no purpose any longer, and/or cannot or does not perform the tasks for which it was originally designed, it is therefore redundant.

 

When one attempts to tack on additional tasks to said role, in particular tasks which are already performed by automation and self-discipline, in an effort to try and other redeem said role, it doesn’t alter the fact that the role is still redundant.

Surely as long as a position has a role and function to fulfill, it is not redundant? It's just that the person is being re-purposed.

 

Self-discipline: Have you seen the state of RGU? That's a prime example of a lack of it.

[Blyaunte]

When a role exists that serves no purpose any longer, and/or cannot or does not perform the tasks for which it was originally designed, it is therefore redundant.

 

When one attempts to tack on additional tasks to said role, in particular tasks which are already performed by automation and self-discipline, in an effort to try and other redeem said role, it doesn’t alter the fact that the role is still redundant.

Surely as long as a position has a role and function to fulfill, it is not redundant? It's just that the person is being re-purposed.

 

Isn't that the point? What "role and function" does the PMod now have that isn't already being maintained by self-discipline and automation?

 

Self-discipline: Have you seen the state of RGU? That's a prime example of a lack of it.

 

I'm sorry - no. What's "RGU"? :unsure:

[Fallstar]

Recent Game Updates I guess.

[Fallstar]

So long as any player can be visibly lifted above other players in terms of trustworthiness there will be problems.

 

To take a more recent example: the player Luke (used to be Uncut Angel) was a RS veteran. He was a PMod and was regarded by most who knew him as basically the perfect example of what a PMod should be. He was also, however, a staker, and well known in the staking community for being an honourable, trustworthy player. Unfortunately he was ddos'd in a 5B stake. Obviously that would have been quite upsetting, and you can sympathize with what he did next. Which was to use his status as a PMod to get people to trust trade him their stake before the stake occurred, supposedly in case he was ddos'd again. If he won, he'd keep the stake, if the opponent won, he'd give them the amount he staked afterwards.

 

For several staking sessions he actually did give players the money when he lost. However after a run of bad luck, he started scamming people. He was eventually investigated, found to be guilty and banned, however the damage had been done and the people he scammed did not get their items back, which were valued in the billions.

 

This was someone who'd been a pmod for most of the 10+ years they'd been playing for, who had a maxed account and was a front page slayer in RSC. It goes to show that no matter how trustworthy and honest any PMod appears to be, some of them will use their status for their own advantage.

 

Whilst most Pmods are honest or limit their corruption to the occasional sold mute, when they really go off the rails they have a devastating negative impact on the community which far outweighs the benefits they provide. The role simply should not exist anymore. I would have no problem with current PMods getting to keep their crowns as a reward for the work they've done for the community, but they should have no additional access over what other players have.

[Sgt Malarkey]

You could argue some of these points with real life organisations. We have corrupt politicians, police officers, CEOs of major and minor corporations. Should we cast out these organisations because some of their staff are corrupt? Hell no. We still need governments and law enforcers. Without businesses, economies flounder and fail.

 

If the P Mod position wasn't needed, we wouldn't have them. Just because you say it's redundant doesn't make it so. The Human race has been to space and landed on the moon. Some people refuse to believe it, claiming it's a conspiracy, that it was faked. People are entitled to their opinions but that doesn't make them fact and ramming "The P Mod position is redundant" down our throats doesn't make it any truer than saying pigs can fly. It stinks of a "holier-than-thou" attitude and doesn't help the situation. You're essentially saying "I appreciate the effort (not) but your position is worthless so gtfo".

 

Personally, I think it's commendable that someone in a P Mod position has taken the time to ask us how they, and other P Mods, can better serve us and needs.

[Cheat]

You could argue some of these points with real life organisations. We have corrupt politicians, police officers, CEOs of major and minor corporations. Should we cast out these organisations because some of their staff are corrupt? Hell no. We still need governments and law enforcers. Without businesses, economies flounder and fail.

 

If the P Mod position wasn't needed, we wouldn't have them. Just because you say it's redundant doesn't make it so. The Human race has been to space and landed on the moon. Some people refuse to believe it, claiming it's a conspiracy, that it was faked. People are entitled to their opinions but that doesn't make them fact and ramming "The P Mod position is redundant" down our throats doesn't make it any truer than saying pigs can fly. It stinks of a "holier-than-thou" attitude and doesn't help the situation. You're essentially saying "I appreciate the effort (not) but your position is worthless so gtfo".

 

Personally, I think it's commendable that someone in a P Mod position has taken the time to ask us how they, and other P Mods, can better serve us and needs.

 

Aren't you just saying that its not redundant and not really giving a reason? Also the first half of your post is enough to start a 100 page long political debate thankfully I generally agree with what you've said. Try not to make analogies between a game and real life and then imagine that they hold entirely true.

 

My idea: Make many, many more PMods but do not give them a silver crown as these are no longer actually PMods just 'mute reviewers'. If someone sees a conversation that upsets them they report the perpetrators. Three 'mute reviewers' are then sent a transcript (via some ingame mute reviewer tool) of the conversation and vote on whether the person should be banned or not. If all three vote that the person should be muted then they are. If the person has been reported more than five times then only two/three need to vote for the person to get muted.

 

As they are at the moment PMods are useless - they are no better than an automated system for muting, they are not particularly knowledgeable, they do not seem to have the ear of Jagex to be a voice of the community - they are as many people have pointed out redundant.

[Fallstar]

Fortunately this is only a game. Comparing the removal of pmods to an equivalent real life organisation is silly.

 

With pmod powers being so limited, it would be more like removing the local neighbourhood watch than the police anyway :P Something we could easily live without.

[Far Quie]

When someone puts forward a question, especially on a public forum such as this one, I am of the opinion that they do it for a response, or help etc., and I do not think in this case it is because the PMod's position is redundant. I don't believe iin that and I don't believe PMod's should be removed from the game. There is a place for them here just as there is a place in any society for order, Attacking someone who is asking for suggestions on how to deal with the position to best suit the community should not be attacked as it has been done here and from where I am standing, one particular attack is based solely on the green eyed monster syndrome and then dragged into some personal wannabe martyr-ism, so the argument is then lost when attempting to snipe because a person disagree's with their view. Again I have echo's of 'Shut up Meg' in my thoughts and yes I am speaking about 1 particular person's comments because yet again it has turned into a personal attack on someone else due to loss of argument or attention.

 

I think that there are a few quotes that are very well written, exuding intellect and thought. Removing PMods because their powers are limited at the moment and likening them to a local neighborhood watch may be true, and if they are removed from the game, then what? We rely on the report button to remove the ability of a player to speak for a period of time. I don't know about you, but that report button is not used if I have access to a PMod on my fl and I pm them with the complaint and ask for their help. I have never been refused when that happens. However, when I hit the report button, there is no difference and I can return to the same venue to the same person using the same level of abuse as I had reported in the first place. I do not aimlessly report, extreme language and racial comments are the only instances that I will do so as I have said before. This may be just a game to some people, but in the community aspect of this game, just like in our real life society it does have the predators, cyber bullies etc., etc., so removing what little representation of 'law' would just leave the community more frustrated and turn even more away. Jagex just needs to review the PMods that they do have and look at ways of improving them. Now if they did a survey on that, I am sure they would have enough responses because I know of a few people who would love to have that crown beside their name in game.... and that comment completely reverses the comments that they have made in the posts they have made here and shows a very hypocritical viewpoint but then again, we always put down what we don't have only because we don't have it right.

[Blyaunte]

Removing PMods because their powers are limited at the moment and likening them to a local neighborhood watch may be true, and if they are removed from the game, then what? We rely on the report button to remove the ability of a player to speak for a period of time. I don't know about you, but that report button is not used if I have access to a PMod on my fl and I pm them with the complaint and ask for their help. I have never been refused when that happens. However, when I hit the report button, there is no difference and I can return to the same venue to the same person using the same level of abuse as I had reported in the first place.

 

Really? You need someone to protect you from the big bad bogey men on the Internets? That’s your reason why you think PMod’s aren’t redundant?

 

FYI, there's a reason why there's an ignore feature and it works really well. Personally, I've found that it's done away with most of the trash in the game ...

 

:lol:

[abellus]

Like I said, it was only a rumor. This plan of theirs was back in 2011, but I assume it got scrapped when they started working on BotWatch.

 

I still do not believe that they should scrap it entirely. Player Moderators could do other things too then just being a policeforce. Besides, Jagex still checks all the mutes if they were even fair. If you think the few overpower the many, and being afraid for the few, then you are just a sheep...

 

Indeed I do care about justice, my justice sense is rather strongly and mistakes be made but I also have my own set of morals and values and will act accordingly. If there were no Player Moderators at all, then things would probably more rampant then they are at the moment.

 

This it the system you're supporting: A policeman thinks someone is guilty, throws them in prison without a trial, and then after they've served some jail time the trial is held to determine their innocence.

 

If you think the few overpower the many, and being afraid for the few, then you are just a sheep...

 

I think you missed my point. If just one corrupt player moderator is abusing his power, the system has failed.

 

And I know you don't like me comparing player moderators to police officers, but that's essentially what they are right now- they're a group of citizens in a society whom have been given certain powers over normal citizens.

The difference between real life and Runescape, however, is that there doesn't have to be a police officer position in Runescape at all. Normal citizens can report criminals, and criminals can be "sent" to a courtroom (jagex) without needing to be physically forced to attend. There is no need for a police officer.

 

So here is my question to you: What can a player moderator offer to the Runescape community that a normal player can't?

[Far Quie]

Removing PMods because their powers are limited at the moment and likening them to a local neighborhood watch may be true, and if they are removed from the game, then what? We rely on the report button to remove the ability of a player to speak for a period of time. I don't know about you, but that report button is not used if I have access to a PMod on my fl and I pm them with the complaint and ask for their help. I have never been refused when that happens. However, when I hit the report button, there is no difference and I can return to the same venue to the same person using the same level of abuse as I had reported in the first place.

 

Really? You need someone to protect you from the big bad bogey men on the Internets? That’s your reason why you think PMod’s aren’t redundant?

 

FYI, there's a reason why there's an ignore feature and it works really well. Personally, I've found that it's done away with most of the trash in the game ...

 

:lol:

 

And I use it often, that is why the trash on the game is exactly where it should be..... and you missed the point totally again, like usual. The report system as it stands is redundant to say the least, Jagex does not always follow up on mutes and I find that it is amusing that you point out the ignore feature to me after numerous 'in game' encounters with players like yourself, that is why there is an ignore button, to remove that distaste from the game, but there are situations which call for something immediate, e.g. in penguin chat, this week in fact, a player was being extremely racist against a country's people and Canada Girl, who of course takes time to make the penguin locations available every week to players such as yourself, and the filter would not filter it out because there was no actual 'language' problem, but as you know, a player can get around this quite easily, I have done so myself so a 'police man', as you put it, is not what I am looking for. And since your opening response was complaining about what you couldn't do on the game, because of your own inabilities is quite astonishing, you brought in all aspects such as the HLF, completionist cape requirements or at least game content being focused more on the high end of Runescape and from all observations, Pmods were brought into it because again, it was something unavailable to yourself, yet I know of players,personally that have used other Pmods to promote their personal approval in the game and there fore trying to manipulate an outcome suitable for themselves rather that the good of the game. The reporting system fails on its own and the ignore list needs to be increased, in an ideal Runescape there would be no need for them, but this is not an ideal Runescape, it does not matter what argument you use as far as other players helping out other players, I know myself, I have closed my public chat off because of lower level players assuming because of the level of the other player, then automatically the 'begging' emote should be enforced. So then we have a classic 'put everyone on ignore, switch off the public chat and limit your interaction in game with other players', if that is the case then why not eliminate all forms of public chat? You cant do that because of the game itself. So in effect, what you are saying is remove all Pmods on a form of prejudicial grounds because some players may look up to them in game because they are in a position to stand out from the rest of the community, hmmmmm....and put faith in and just rely on the in game reporting system to eliminate all the trash from the game. I do not have the faith to only have one form offered in game. I speak from experience there.

 

I find the comment laughable at the big bad bogeyman on the net, there are also big bad bogeywomen , perhaps you should enlighten yourself with the internet outside of this game, oh wait.. an example that comes to mind quite easily is that there is a large proportion of young impressionable players on this game and that anyone with children who allow them to play would also appreciate that there are promises to ensure that it is a safe environment, we all cant be as loud mouthed and obnoxious as myself on Runescape. It is not only the young player either, it goes right across the board as far as the age goes. Just a thought....

 

So now, apart from the usual copy and paste, give me one reason why you do not want them in game.

[Blyaunte]

Tsk. Tsk. Tsk - ad hominem attacks? Really? Wow. So hurtful. I nearly shed a tear.

 

Numerous indicators have been provided that demonstrate how and why the PMod role has met it's life-expectancy limit. Do you feel so threatened that YOU'RE in need of so much extra protection? You indicate as much, but I doubt it.

 

Is it perhaps that you covet the role of PMod for yourself? Possibly. Or perhaps this is just more automated nay-saying because it's me. Would you be so fast to take a contrary position if it was someone else who proposed it? You've made numerous attacks against me personally here. Weakly veiled but attacks nonetheless. You've ignored the rest of the comments on this thread and only come after me.

 

In any event, the automated systems are more than sufficient for anyone's purposes in dealing with "offenders". Of course, my own sensitivities aren't as easily offended as some other's, but it's pretty safe to say that, outside of someone going after a "pound of flesh", the simple matter of reporting someone and putting them on ignore should be more than enough for every player to avoid difficulty. Really - any further desire to exact some measure of revenge or punishment on another party in game other than that, is really just mean-spirited, in my opinion.

 

Report. Ignore. Get on with life.

 

See? Easy peasy.

 

Additionally, Jagex has made it abundantly clear, at every turn, that they're not interested in how players "interpret the rules". They've got their own guidelines and they stick to them. Until they change them.

 

If these are the roles that you're proposing the PMod fulfill, then clearly neither of which are relevant to the game any longer.

[Stev]

They've got their own guidelines and they stick to them.

Are we still talking about Jagex here?

 

PMods are still useful for their muting abilities. I've been in FCs and CCs where no one could kick the spammer, because and admin wasn't online, and so the spammer sat there for hours until one showed up. In that case, a PMod would still be useful and have a role to play.

 

Look at when I used to sell floors. Before I became admin of Sell Dung, I couldn't kick. If it was late at night, our terrible "rivals" would send spam bots into our FC advertising their FC and their prices. Sure, I could add them to my ignore, but our customers come in and see that. Do you think the customers will also ignore? No, they react with, "Freaking hell, this FC's getting spammed to shit. I'm going to [other FC]".

 

Sure the ignore list is there. Sure we should use it. But should we have to? Don't take this as a personal attack, simply using it as an example you can relate to, but weren't (aren't) you not allowed to curse in Team Walmart because people shouldn't have to use their chat filters? Just because the option is there, I don't want to have to fill up my ignore list if it can be solved for everyone at the click of a PMod's button. I don't want to go to DG to sell floors and get so annoyed by the spam that I have to use my ignore list. PMods are (sometimes) good at muting spam bots in popular places, such as DG worlds, and as such still have a role.

 

I have zero people on my ignore list and, thanks to PMods, it'll hopefully remain that way. :).

 

However, as my posts are just repeating things I've said/suggested previously, I don't want to spam this thread and drag it off course. So, unless I think of anything else to suggest to improve PMods, I'll leave it at that. Cheers.

[helring]

Removing PMods because their powers are limited at the moment and likening them to a local neighborhood watch may be true, and if they are removed from the game, then what? We rely on the report button to remove the ability of a player to speak for a period of time. I don't know about you, but that report button is not used if I have access to a PMod on my fl and I pm them with the complaint and ask for their help. I have never been refused when that happens. However, when I hit the report button, there is no difference and I can return to the same venue to the same person using the same level of abuse as I had reported in the first place.

 

Really? You need someone to protect you from the big bad bogey men on the Internets? That’s your reason why you think PMod’s aren’t redundant?

 

FYI, there's a reason why there's an ignore feature and it works really well. Personally, I've found that it's done away with most of the trash in the game ...

 

:lol:

 

And I use it often, that is why the trash on the game is exactly where it should be..... and you missed the point totally again, like usual. The report system as it stands is redundant to say the least, Jagex does not always follow up on mutes and I find that it is amusing that you point out the ignore feature to me after numerous 'in game' encounters with players like yourself, that is why there is an ignore button, to remove that distaste from the game, but there are situations which call for something immediate, e.g. in penguin chat, this week in fact, a player was being extremely racist against a country's people and Canada Girl, who of course takes time to make the penguin locations available every week to players such as yourself, and the filter would not filter it out because there was no actual 'language' problem, but as you know, a player can get around this quite easily, I have done so myself so a 'police man', as you put it, is not what I am looking for. And since your opening response was complaining about what you couldn't do on the game, because of your own inabilities is quite astonishing, you brought in all aspects such as the HLF, completionist cape requirements or at least game content being focused more on the high end of Runescape and from all observations, Pmods were brought into it because again, it was something unavailable to yourself, yet I know of players,personally that have used other Pmods to promote their personal approval in the game and there fore trying to manipulate an outcome suitable for themselves rather that the good of the game. The reporting system fails on its own and the ignore list needs to be increased, in an ideal Runescape there would be no need for them, but this is not an ideal Runescape, it does not matter what argument you use as far as other players helping out other players, I know myself, I have closed my public chat off because of lower level players assuming because of the level of the other player, then automatically the 'begging' emote should be enforced. So then we have a classic 'put everyone on ignore, switch off the public chat and limit your interaction in game with other players', if that is the case then why not eliminate all forms of public chat? You cant do that because of the game itself. So in effect, what you are saying is remove all Pmods on a form of prejudicial grounds because some players may look up to them in game because they are in a position to stand out from the rest of the community, hmmmmm....and put faith in and just rely on the in game reporting system to eliminate all the trash from the game. I do not have the faith to only have one form offered in game. I speak from experience there.

 

I find the comment laughable at the big bad bogeyman on the net, there are also big bad bogeywomen , perhaps you should enlighten yourself with the internet outside of this game, oh wait.. an example that comes to mind quite easily is that there is a large proportion of young impressionable players on this game and that anyone with children who allow them to play would also appreciate that there are promises to ensure that it is a safe environment, we all cant be as loud mouthed and obnoxious as myself on Runescape. It is not only the young player either, it goes right across the board as far as the age goes. Just a thought....

 

So now, apart from the usual copy and paste, give me one reason why you do not want them in game.

 

If its within a chat then it should be up to the people running the chat to kick them. I agree the ignore list should be increased, but deal with begging and such should not really be the job of a p mod anyway so i'm not sure why that should be involved in the conversation. P mods however are relatively useless at the moment and the only way to make them useful would involve great amounts of work on Jagex's part. The ignore feature works better than any P mod ever could and while it does need to be increased p mods rarely do anything that actually helps the current state of the game. They're just players with too much power and too little oversight. Any way to make P mods useful would involve a great amount of involvement from J mods so why not just cut out the middle men and put J mods in charge that can actually be held accountable.

[helring]

They've got their own guidelines and they stick to them.

Are we still talking about Jagex here?

 

PMods are still useful for their muting abilities. I've been in FCs and CCs where no one could kick the spammer, because and admin wasn't online, and so the spammer sat there for hours until one showed up. In that case, a PMod would still be useful and have a role to play.

 

Look at when I used to sell floors. Before I became admin of Sell Dung, I couldn't kick. If it was late at night, our terrible "rivals" would send spam bots into our FC advertising their FC and their prices. Sure, I could add them to my ignore, but our customers come in and see that. Do you think the customers will also ignore? No, they react with, "Freaking hell, this FC's getting spammed to shit. I'm going to [other FC]".

 

Sure the ignore list is there. Sure we should use it. But should we have to? Don't take this as a personal attack, simply using it as an example you can relate to, but weren't (aren't) you not allowed to curse in Team Walmart because people shouldn't have to use their chat filters? I don't want to go to DG to sell floors and get so annoyed by the spam that I have to use my ignore list. PMods are (sometimes) good at muting spam bots in popular places, such as DG worlds, and as such still have a role.

 

I have zero people on my ignore list and, thanks to PMods, it'll hopefully remain that way. :).

 

Admins should police their own chats, if they choose not to then form a new chat. Having P mods around to answer to the individual chats just breeds corruption. You can start by having them just mute spammers in your fc, then move onto having them mute your rivals outside the chat. I am not in anyway saying thats what you did, just that its been done before and the best way is to just make sure the chat has someone with kicking power on at all times.

[Far Quie]

Tsk. Tsk. Tsk - ad hominem attacks? Really? Wow. So hurtful. I nearly shed a tear.

 

Numerous indicators have been provided that demonstrate how and why the PMod role has met it's life-expectancy limit. Do you feel so threatened that YOU'RE in need of so much extra protection? You indicate as much, but I doubt it.

 

Is it perhaps that you covet the role of PMod for yourself? Possibly. Or perhaps this is just more automated nay-saying because it's me. Would you be so fast to take a contrary position if it was someone else who proposed it? You've made numerous attacks against me personally here. Weakly veiled but attacks nonetheless. You've ignored the rest of the comments on this thread and only come after me.

 

In any event, the automated systems are more than sufficient for anyone's purposes in dealing with "offenders". Of course, my own sensitivities aren't as easily offended as some other's, but it's pretty safe to say that, outside of someone going after a "pound of flesh", the simple matter of reporting someone and putting them on ignore should be more than enough for every player to avoid difficulty. Really - any further desire to exact some measure of revenge or punishment on another party in game other than that, is really just mean-spirited, in my opinion.

 

Report. Ignore. Get on with life.

 

See? Easy peasy.

 

Additionally, Jagex has made it abundantly clear, at every turn, that they're not interested in how players "interpret the rules". They've got their own guidelines and they stick to them. Until they change them.

 

If these are the roles that you're proposing the PMod fulfill, then clearly neither of which are relevant to the game any longer.

 

Oh I was not trying to be hurtful and almost shedding a tear is ironic especially coming from someone with asbestos wings and no attitude, but then, I do know that you have coveted the use of Mods yourself and have done so on many occasions, as well as made it known how high up the chain they were or still are. And I am not mud flinging, it is a well known fact in game of who your friends are or were, and for one who is a stickler for choosing the follow the rules of Jagex, I also know, as do many others, that you do not. Yet blow up on forums such as these with snipes towards various participants that you in fact are so angelic and knowledgeable when it comes to making rants or failed trolls. Like I said, find some original content instead of trying to point score off the coat tails of someone else. You were asked about the value of Pmods in game. Yet again, you cannot win the argument so try and produce something on a more personal level to say.... look at me! Well, I am looking and you haven't made any real contribution.

 

I know of an example, a person had a traumatic and could have been life threatening encounter on Runescape and again, this person concerned has passed on this information on as a warning to fellow players to keep people aware of the dangers of gaming trolls, although the retelling had differed greatly, it leaves me to wonder, if there had been an available PMod around, if his/her mod powers would not have used to fend off the attacks that were aimed to insult the the recipient and expose a real life threat. Yes, I am sitting here wondering why you now choose to voice a totally different tune when at the very beginning of this topic you only chose to push out the points of what you ​don't have and not actually say why they should or shouldn't be in game. So far your trumpet is sounding very loudly but what is coming out is making a lot of noise with very little sense. Stay with the topic, because so far I am listing examples and all you are doing is flapping around the subject supposedly on an intellectual level yet saying absolutely nothing. No wonder no one has quoted old post of yours in this topic.

 

Again, we have Pmods in this game to help assist Jagex as it is obvious they are over flowed with new content and it is not easy for them to keep up with the amount of reports and Pmods are in game because of that reason, as I said in my previous post, a recent event took place in the penguin chat, again a chat you use, and a particular person had found a way around the chat filter, which face it isn't hard to do, and let it be known to all his thoughts. There was no key or gen to kick, its an open chat, so am I to again open up a space on my ignore list to fill it with someone I will never in all probability meet again in this game. I would prefer to see more Pmods and actually get one of them to mute this idiot than fill up a spot on my ignore list for someone.... shall we say... more important. If you wish to call them the police unit or neighborhood watch, that is up to you but regardless you do need someone in game as you do in society to be there as backup, this is an inter reactive community, if you don't want that, then remove all aspects for it to be such. I do not want that, my ignore list is full and mostly from spam bots only a few names stand out that I know should be there.

 

The Report Abuse button fails because I don't think Jagex really has the time to sit and aimlessly go through pieces of evidence from random players as often as they would go through something sent in by a Pmod when it comes to an instant mute, the filter fails because you can find ways around it, I really think, as I have said previously, there needs to be more powers given in all probability along with requirements set out that must be adhered to to become a PMod, like I said, a lot that I know in game, never read the home page, etc., etc., that there should be a closer look at those that are abusing their Mod status in game and are being coerced by other players to do questionable mutes and a small amount of commonsense when it comes to making a judgement call.

 

In response to Unicorn Horn with dealing with begging and it not being up to a PMod, I agree, please re read what I wrote as I was explaining why I do not actively engage in game with aiding or helping people most of the time, because of my experiences ending up being because of them begging. PMods as far as I am aware are in game to assist with inquiries or help etc., I was not suggesting that they be used for such pettiness.

 

Another thought is that if in deed they do as you suggest and bring in more JMods into the game, then that would mean more staff which would suggest either they push more the SOF/Solomons items onto us or...... increase memberships, yeah I can now picture the amount of complaining that would bring about. Why do that when you have a wide expanse of players at your disposal.

 

 

If anything, we need more of them in game. Now it's your turn, this time give me a reason other than quote and paste or the boohoo blah blah as to why they should be removed or how they are redundant to the game particularly when you use them yourself. I would also like to add, no way in hell would I take on the job of a PMod. Me thinks however, you would!

[Blyaunte]

Inasmuch as some people simply cannot separate themselves from the discussion and avoid making ad hominem attacks, I will simply ignore them for the time-being.

 

They've got their own guidelines and they stick to them.

Are we still talking about Jagex here?

Did you gloss over the words “… ntil they change them …”? :lol:

PMods are still useful for their muting abilities. I've been in FCs and CCs where no one could kick the spammer, because and admin wasn't online, and so the spammer sat there for hours until one showed up. In that case, a PMod would still be useful and have a role to play.

 

Look at when I used to sell floors. Before I became admin of Sell Dung, I couldn't kick. If it was late at night, our terrible "rivals" would send spam bots into our FC advertising their FC and their prices. Sure, I could add them to my ignore, but our customers come in and see that. Do you think the customers will also ignore? No, they react with, "Freaking hell, this FC's getting spammed to shit. I'm going to [other FC]".

 

Sure the ignore list is there. Sure we should use it. But should we have to? Don't take this as a personal attack, simply using it as an example you can relate to, but weren't (aren't) you not allowed to curse in Team Walmart because people shouldn't have to use their chat filters? Just because the option is there, I don't want to have to fill up my ignore list if it can be solved for everyone at the click of a PMod's button. I don't want to go to DG to sell floors and get so annoyed by the spam that I have to use my ignore list. PMods are (sometimes) good at muting spam bots in popular places, such as DG worlds, and as such still have a role.

 

I have zero people on my ignore list and, thanks to PMods, it'll hopefully remain that way. .

 

However, as my posts are just repeating things I've said/suggested previously, I don't want to spam this thread and drag it off course. So, unless I think of anything else to suggest to improve PMods, I'll leave it at that. Cheers.

 

Basically, what you’re saying is that you want PMods to remain in the game so that you have your own private “muting” service at your beck and call. Which is absurd. It’s not Jagex’s responsibility to assign individuals a suitable rank to protect your tender feelings.

 

Clearly the fault here lies with the operator of the “chat” options made available to them.

 

It’s very easy to manipulate the chat options to allow certain individuals of specific ranks the option to remove disruptive people from within the chat. If there is no one of specific rank to do so at any given time, then it’s up to the chat operator to ensure that such arrangements are made. Adjusting ranks and their responsibilities, or making appointments from a wider range of people will allow better control of the situation.

 

When I was a member of the PCE Clan, the admins went to great lengths to make sure that they had people of sufficient rank living in specific geographic regions to allow round the clock maintenance of the clan chat. When I ran Team Walmart, I arranged for the same thing.

 

Of course, not every clan can do that. However, limiting access to the chat to only certain individuals and/or limiting certain ranks to be allowed to speak in chat are some of the other options available in dealing with such situations. Honestly, it takes only a few moments to learn how to amend the chat options. It’s rather silly that I have to point this out to anyone.

 

That said, if it was deemed necessary (and I am in no way saying that it is), it could probably be adequately lobbied to Jagex, through the forums, to add additional ways to modify the options of the chat system, as it exists now, so as to allow for even more moderation therein by its registered members. Who knows? Perhaps a voting system, wherein a certain percentage of people with sufficient rank within the chat, could be implemented into chats that would allow registered members of the chat community the power to vote to remove certain individuals from the chat.

 

Honestly, these are common sense solutions, they're not difficult to enforce, and they only go to further illustrate how the current environment has now evolved to the point where PMods no longer serve any useful function in game.

[Alaz]

Sure the ignore list is there. Sure we should use it. But should we have to? Don't take this as a personal attack, simply using it as an example you can relate to, but weren't (aren't) you not allowed to curse in Team Walmart because people shouldn't have to use their chat filters? Just because the option is there, I don't want to have to fill up my ignore list if it can be solved for everyone at the click of a PMod's button. I don't want to go to DG to sell floors and get so annoyed by the spam that I have to use my ignore list. PMods are (sometimes) good at muting spam bots in popular places, such as DG worlds, and as such still have a role.

 

I have zero people on my ignore list and, thanks to PMods, it'll hopefully remain that way. :).

 

You don't have to use it. It is there for your convenience. If you want to limit the tools available to you (in not wanting to use your ignore list), then you choose to suffer from spammers that choose to disrupt your game experience.

 

PMods shouldn't be needed as a police force. If Jagex got their act together, refined their auto-mute system, streamlined their muting/reporting system, then the moderation side of PMods would become obsolete. But they probably wont do that, because they have PMods. But they have PMods, because they don't have an adequate muting/reporting system. It's a cycle that can only be escaped when Jagex finally puts the appropriate development time and talent to it.

 

I do believe there is potential for the PMods, but time has only shown that Jagex is not willing to put the time and effort into the team to develop it appropriately. When I say "time has only shown," I am referring to the past 5+ years. At some point, you have to realize it's not going anywhere. I'd rather have no PMods than a PMod program that is defunct.

[Far Quie]

In an ideal gaming situation, there should not be the need for PMods, and while we are speaking of that ideal game, hypothetically of course, there would be adequate manning of different chats with the appropriate ranks in them to remove people who are disruptive. But there isn't enough, and again I can use one of the examples of the penguin chat which is a chat open for all members of RS, now granted it is only a FC and not a CC, so I would not expect the structure to be as solid because of what it was created for, and there are many such chats in RS, I think it is safe to say that because of the changes on RS they no longer apply to the same value as they were originally intended to. The amount of people playing for a start factor into this along with the introduction of the Clan chat over a friends chat. So we have a player, who takes time to put up on the forums locations, who has an open chat and it cannot be closed off or muted to general talk, who has taken time out to provide a service that is used by the community and appreciated and there is no guarantee of the player creating this FC having it monitored with ranks as strictly as it would in the current clan chats, and yet, we start using the examples from the past, of a large PCE clan, which I also was a member/ Like the current reporting standards etc., this does not apply to the current Runescape. You are speaking of a time when there was probably 100x the amount of players in game at any one time. We can all look back and go.... remember when..... but unfortunately, it no longer applies to current day.

 

PMods should not be removed, not at present anyway, Jagex does need to work on the in game reporting system. I don't know how many times I have seen bots in the usual places, (just an example) I do report them and they are still there weeks later in fact to counter this, what I see that works is that Jagex should really just keep updating their game, so far that is the most successful way to remove them from in game if only until their makers can adjust their code work. we all know that. I also know how many times I have sat in game and typed "I wish there was a mod around...." again something most of us have done because of different situations, and why do we say that? We say it because the current reporting system is inadequate. Now before I get the usual flame out of... Do I need someone in game to protect me etc., etc., well don't bother, all that is showing me is a very narrow view point as to who is playing this game, we have all ages, some play on a parental consent basis and part of that consent is that there is some in game monitoring. Jagex does not only have Runescape as we know, they wont employ more staff just to sit back and play a game 24/7, that would be ideal but will never happen. We cannot remove the report abuse button from in game, because.... I don't know why we cant, mine does not seem to be working, and yet PMods can actually do something in the real time that we cant. Again I will say, I use commonsense when I report someone and it only happens in extreme cases and I have already said what those reasons are.

 

They do not need to be removed. They need to be improved. They have been in game for as long as I have played, some people value them, some don't, but until all forms of chat are removed from the game, you do need something. And this forum is just a small cross section of that community, and I do see the same people posting over and over again on different forum posts, so we are again set in the frame work that happens in most forums of just a small representation of the Runescape community contributing. Until something that works is replaced and I am not holding my breath with that. I do not want to see them removed. You may liken them to a police officer as much as you want, but the police in my community, do work to aid the community and hopefully act as a deterrent but then again that is being said in an ideal situation, and yes I am not naive enough to say that there is no level of corruption there either.

[Quyneax]

"[...] and while we are speaking of that ideal game, hypothetically of course, there would be adequate manning [...]"

 

"[...] PMods should not be removed, not at present anyway, Jagex does need to work on the in game reporting system. [...]"

 

"[...] and yes I am not naive enough to say that there is no level of corruption there either. [...]"

 

You recognize the difference between an ideal world and the real world, but you need to expand that to Jagex as well. In an ideal world, Jagex would do a good job - achieving the goals set on time, picking the right goals. However, realistically, they will not upgrade their systems to any point where player moderators will be useful. It's best to just remove them, Jagex can probably do that right.

[Alaz]

 

In an ideal gaming situation, there should not be the need for PMods, and while we are speaking of that ideal game, hypothetically of course, there would be adequate manning of different chats with the appropriate ranks in them to remove people who are disruptive. But there isn't enough, and again I can use one of the examples of the penguin chat which is a chat open for all members of RS, now granted it is only a FC and not a CC, so I would not expect the structure to be as solid because of what it was created for, and there are many such chats in RS, I think it is safe to say that because of the changes on RS they no longer apply to the same value as they were originally intended to. The amount of people playing for a start factor into this along with the introduction of the Clan chat over a friends chat. So we have a player, who takes time to put up on the forums locations, who has an open chat and it cannot be closed off or muted to general talk, who has taken time out to provide a service that is used by the community and appreciated and there is no guarantee of the player creating this FC having it monitored with ranks as strictly as it would in the current clan chats, and yet, we start using the examples from the past, of a large PCE clan, which I also was a member/ Like the current reporting standards etc., this does not apply to the current Runescape. You are speaking of a time when there was probably 100x the amount of players in game at any one time. We can all look back and go.... remember when..... but unfortunately, it no longer applies to current day.

 

PMods should not be removed, not at present anyway, Jagex does need to work on the in game reporting system. I don't know how many times I have seen bots in the usual places, (just an example) I do report them and they are still there weeks later in fact to counter this, what I see that works is that Jagex should really just keep updating their game, so far that is the most successful way to remove them from in game if only until their makers can adjust their code work. we all know that. I also know how many times I have sat in game and typed "I wish there was a mod around...." again something most of us have done because of different situations, and why do we say that? We say it because the current reporting system is inadequate. Now before I get the usual flame out of... Do I need someone in game to protect me etc., etc., well don't bother, all that is showing me is a very narrow view point as to who is playing this game, we have all ages, some play on a parental consent basis and part of that consent is that there is some in game monitoring. Jagex does not only have Runescape as we know, they wont employ more staff just to sit back and play a game 24/7, that would be ideal but will never happen. We cannot remove the report abuse button from in game, because.... I don't know why we cant, mine does not seem to be working, and yet PMods can actually do something in the real time that we cant. Again I will say, I use commonsense when I report someone and it only happens in extreme cases and I have already said what those reasons are.

 

They do not need to be removed. They need to be improved. They have been in game for as long as I have played, some people value them, some don't, but until all forms of chat are removed from the game, you do need something. And this forum is just a small cross section of that community, and I do see the same people posting over and over again on different forum posts, so we are again set in the frame work that happens in most forums of just a small representation of the Runescape community contributing. Until something that works is replaced and I am not holding my breath with that. I do not want to see them removed. You may liken them to a police officer as much as you want, but the police in my community, do work to aid the community and hopefully act as a deterrent but then again that is being said in an ideal situation, and yes I am not naive enough to say that there is no level of corruption there either.

 

I respect that there are vulnerable players out there. However, there comes a time when those players need to see that the internet has scary things on it. Trying to hide that ... it's only going to lead to a worse situation later on. At least this is only a game; what happens when they move into more "important" (loosely used) things? I'd rather they experience these facets of the internet here, where there's little potential for harm, rather than the "real world" side of the internet.

 

I'll include this tid bit here, quoted directly from the RuneScape Terms & Conditions.

 

6. Safety and abuse

 

Before using any Jagex Product you should read Heath and Safety information and Safety and Security information. Parents of those under 18 should also review this information.

 

We are under no obligation to (and do not) monitor User Content. You should be aware of the potential risks of using a service which includes extensive User Content. User Content may be inaccurate, out of date or otherwise inappropriate. We cannot guarantee that users will comply with our terms and conditions, rules or otherwise behave appropriately. You should not assume that a person is who he or she claims to be. In your own interests, you should not attempt to contact any other user outside a Jagex Product.

 

If you are the victim of offensive or inappropriate behaviour or receive any other unwanted communications, you should use the built-in blocking facilities (as detailed in the Chatting and staying safe online section) to block the messages. You should report all inappropriate behaviour to us via the in game "Report abuse" button as well as seeking appropriate external help, for example from parents or law enforcement authorities. If you continue to suffer problems, or are not satisfied, then you must stop using the relevant Jagex Product(s).

 

Jagex knows their PMods aren't a suitable guarantee of a safe gaming experience; that's why you agree when playing to use their built in functions (ignore list, report abuse) when faced with a dangerous or potentially harmful situation.

 

Also, I'll just add that I used to be a kicking rank within one of the penguin FCs that you mentioned. At no time were we crippled due to a lack of in-game muting abilities among the chat. We took full responsibility of protecting the chat, often communicating between ourselves as ranks to make sure there was someone (if only idling) in the chat at all times. In my opinion, it is the group coordinating the service, who holds the responsibility of keeping that chat safe. If they don't, everyone is free to find another service. There is no applicable need for PMods to use that service for the purpose of serving as a moderator. If anything, their ability would usurp those serving as leaders in the chat, oftentimes causing more confusion. (I was accidentally muted by a PMod while kicking mass-spammers from a penguin chat. But that's a story for a different day. :? )

 

All in all, we players have the ability to protect ourselves from harmful content, and we are expected to do so (as per reading the T&Cs). There is no need for PMods, they are merely a sour convenience.