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Daviddts

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Yeahhhhhh - no. They don't listen to the Player Moderators any more than they listen to the MAX players -- or any other player with a good idea or good intentions, for that matter.

 

I mean, really, when was the last time that Jagex “listened to the players” and then followed that up with genuinely useful content that was little more than a total FUBAR of the original issue?

 

32wJv.jpg

 

Numerous changes have actually been brought into the game on this thread and Chris L explains the reasoning behind stuff every week or two. I mean, I have very negative opinions of Jagex as a whole, but credit where credit's due.

 

Here's some of the stuff that he changed after listening to player feedback.

 

32wOi.png

 

So there's at least one half decent JMod :P

 

Is it just me or is that a pretty narrow range of improvements? Most of which seem to circulate around the Completionist Cape ... :unsure:

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That's just a sample I could be bothered to pic. He's made a few dozen posts in that thread like this

 

32GUD.png

 

(the post was several times longer than what I can fit in one pic without splicing them together)

 

discussing and implementing changes on basically anything.

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What you have in the HLF is a bunch of very knowledgeable trolls. Yes, you get a bunch of terrible, useless, annoying posts (usually from the same handful of names) but there are also a lot of pretty good ideas coming from the forum, it just needs to be sorted correctly.

You mean like most of the other RSOF sections?

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Yeahhhhhh - no. They don't listen to the Player Moderators any more than they listen to the MAX players -- or any other player with a good idea or good intentions, for that matter.

 

I mean, really, when was the last time that Jagex “listened to the players” and then followed that up with genuinely useful content that was little more than a total FUBAR of the original issue?

 

http://puu.sh/32wJv.jpg

 

Numerous changes have actually been brought into the game on this thread and Chris L explains the reasoning behind stuff every week or two. I mean, I have very negative opinions of Jagex as a whole, but credit where credit's due.

 

Here's some of the stuff that he changed after listening to player feedback.

 

http://puu.sh/32wOi.png

 

So there's at least one half decent JMod :P

 

Is it just me or is that a pretty narrow range of improvements? Most of which seem to circulate around the Completionist Cape ... :unsure:

4 of the 18 visible before the page cuts. And do you expect people on the HLF to suggest improvements to Nexus and other low-level content?

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Which I see as a flaw of relying on solely maxed players for important input, but hey, I guess you take what you can get.

 

another thing I don't get is why we look to players who don't have to actually play the game anymore as far as progression goes (in terms of increasing your means of playing the game, as opposed to just making a number larger for prestige), while most of the important updates involve progression

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For one, I think they should expand the amount of Player Moderators. I see far too few of them outside of crowded places like Deamonheim or Grand Exchange. Weren't they planning on expanding the Player Moderator team by another 8,000 people? Further on, I think their original role is now made near obsolete due BotWatch, however there are still a lot of situations where a player should be muted, as that is the only thing a player moderator can do, and it's frustrating that there is no Player Moderator nearby who could act on it.

 

 

I would like to explore a new division of Player Moderators, one that we currently have, that is their original purpose helping people around and reporting obvious bugs directly with Jagex Moderators but also dealing with Bots, Scammers and Spammers, and one that Jagex is now aiming to achieve; Community Player Moderators. The idea is nice, but it ends up that those people who are the most famous or infamous (watching you woox ;D!) gets asked to be a Player Moderator. Ofcourse this is not always the case.

 

Expand the team to another 8000? Are you suggesting we transform Runescape into a police state?

 

Expanding and allocating more power to an organisation that is already partly corrupt would be ruinous to the Runescape community. Player moderators should have never existed in the first place. Regular players should not be given the power to mute other players. It's a system that assumes that every single player moderator won't abuse his power at some point in time. Considering the number of player moderators who are frequently paid off to mute certain individuals that big-boss chatroom leaders don't like, I'd say the system has failed. I tense up when I see a player moderator at the Grand Exchange, because I know that's where they usually do their dirty business. Why should I have to be terrified of my fellow players in a safe zone?

 

I know the grand majority of player moderators are very nice, non-corrupt people. But the system just isn't worth it when you have even a few dozen who abuse their powers on a regular basis.

 

Scrap it entirely. I don't care if you value justice more than your average player, you're still human and you still make mistakes like every non-Pmod player. Denying that fact is ignorance on your part. Let the developers control the justice system in their own game.

 

Like I said, it was only a rumor. This plan of theirs was back in 2011, but I assume it got scrapped when they started working on BotWatch.

 

I still do not believe that they should scrap it entirely. Player Moderators could do other things too then just being a policeforce. Besides, Jagex still checks all the mutes if they were even fair. If you think the few overpower the many, and being afraid for the few, then you are just a sheep...

 

Indeed I do care about justice, my justice sense is rather strongly and mistakes be made but I also have my own set of morals and values and will act accordingly. If there were no Player Moderators at all, then things would probably more rampant then they are at the moment.

 

Which I see as a flaw of relying on solely maxed players for important input, but hey, I guess you take what you can get.

 

another thing I don't get is why we look to players who don't have to actually play the game anymore as far as progression goes (in terms of increasing your means of playing the game, as opposed to just making a number larger for prestige), while most of the important updates involve progression

 

Hence I see a cutout job for the Player Moderators to act as a conduit between jagex and the community instead of the HLF being that.

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HLF is not a very good conduit between Jagex and the community, I agree, but unless Jagex starts a new private forum with targeted recruiting, HLF's the only forum with both a small enough user base (= manageable amount of posts) and enough veteran players and metagamers that Jagex actually reads. Player moderators do not necessarily understand the metagame or game design in general. In my opinion, the game mechanics/balance are what needs attention and input from players, not lore, graphics or community (obviously the community is up to the players, but there's no need to draw Jagex into that). Jagex does fine on their own when it comes to lore and graphics.

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In many ways I feel like we could benefit from a 'HLF' that has a lower arbitrary total level related requirement BUT also considers other things.

Could sort of have a tiered entry system:

1) Given entry after a specific update (eg people who did the Nexus) and then revoked afterwards

2) On the basis of good posts at level 1 be given say 6-12 months access

3) If posts are good in level 2 you get permanent access.

 

A bit 'elitist' perhaps but it would ensure you develop a core group that actually plays content and gives good responses about it (and by good I don't mean positive, I mean constructive and thought out)

 

The trouble with HLF as it stands is, as pointed out, it only really results in high-end feedback which leaves lower content in a mess AND I feel the Jmod posts there, especially from stickies, where they are saying we ARE doing this ought to be duplicated in to a sticky in Future Updates because being hidden away in HLF it does kind of allow 'insider trading' as it were to occur due to foreknowledge of things being altered that the rest of us aren't privvy too other than rumours that some HLFers let out.

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This past week, in my opinion, has been a great example of why the player moderation team should be expanded.

 

Some of you may not have heard, but here in the UK a soldier was attacked and killed by two men claiming that they did it in the name of Allah. The amount of hatred and racism, both in game and off, that has occurred since then has been absolutely disgusting. People jumping on the bandwagon spouting fascist remarks with "facts" and "statistics" pulled out of thin air because 2 mentals killed someone. I completely understand the anger directed at these men but at an entire culture? They do not speak for their religion nor their fellow countrymen, the same way that the IRA do not speak for their religion or fellow countrymen.

 

World 23's GE the other night was a prime example of a situation that desperately needed a mod or two to come in, calm down the situation and mute those who continued to be racist. I have no problem with religious debates but when people have already made up their minds over a religion they don't understand and aren't willing to listen to counter-points or be respectful, then mutes need to be handed out.

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Yeahhhhhh - no. They don't listen to the Player Moderators any more than they listen to the MAX players -- or any other player with a good idea or good intentions, for that matter.

 

I mean, really, when was the last time that Jagex “listened to the players” and then followed that up with genuinely useful content that was little more than a total FUBAR of the original issue?

 

http://puu.sh/32wJv.jpg

 

Numerous changes have actually been brought into the game on this thread and Chris L explains the reasoning behind stuff every week or two. I mean, I have very negative opinions of Jagex as a whole, but credit where credit's due.

 

Here's some of the stuff that he changed after listening to player feedback.

 

http://puu.sh/32wOi.png

 

So there's at least one half decent JMod :P

 

Is it just me or is that a pretty narrow range of improvements? Most of which seem to circulate around the Completionist Cape ... :unsure:

4 of the 18 visible before the page cuts. And do you expect people on the HLF to suggest improvements to Nexus and other low-level content?

 

Gee -- ya think? So, in other words, outside of a handful of individuals with max capes making whoopee about further benefits for their maxed accounts, Jagex doesn't appear to listen to the general populace? Is this what you're telling me? It appears to be what you're telling me. Am I mistaken in this concept? It doesn't appear so.

 

And my question remains, how many truly significant ("major") game updates in which Jagex claimed that they "listened to the players" have actually shown that they've listened, or at least understood, what "the players" wanted in the first place -- other than to appease the mighty handful of maxed players?

 

We asked for a update to Smithing and we got "the Artisan's boutique". We asked for an update to Construction and got, what exactly? And I've no idea who they talked to to come up with the Nexus but, jeeeeeeeez ... :blink:

 

... and my point is that, outside a handful of maxed players who've managed a sufficient close encounter with a Jmod sufficient times to achieve an "ostensibly thoughtful gesture", why would one suggest that the "PMod role" would function as that of a "liaison" between Jagex and the general populace?

 

:rolleyes:

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Is it just me or is that a pretty narrow range of improvements? Most of which seem to circulate around the Completionist Cape ... :unsure:

Mod Chris L was heavily involved in the design for the max/completionist capes, so it's no wonder that he'd be more willing and quick to work on a piece of content much closer to his heart :P

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Is it just me or is that a pretty narrow range of improvements? Most of which seem to circulate around the Completionist Cape ... :unsure:

Mod Chris L was heavily involved in the design for the max/completionist capes, so it's no wonder that he'd be more willing and quick to work on a piece of content much closer to his heart :P

 

Which demonstrates what, exactly? :unsure:

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I liked it when we could mute rulebreakers, but Jagex would prefer to do that themselves. :razz:

 

I'd think the real problem is that Jagex can't decide what to do with the role. They started it to enforce the rules, then wouldn't let them enforce the rules. Then they wanted community leaders, but stopped doing community events after like a week. But they can't give them the powers to do any of the jobs they give them because they might abuse them, but ignore the mods that abuse their powers. Now, I get the feeling tha they can't decide if they want to get rid of them or not, so they're just ignoring them.

 

As usual, Jagex doesn't do half the job and half-asses the rest. I like the role (And not for the status), but Jagex seems to be going out of their way to mismanage it. <_<

 

I don't really remember a time when the game was filled with 'good' pmods. They certainly weren't and never have been great sources of information IMO. I notice you're doing a lot of finger wagging at Jagex but perhaps the players weren't either good enough to do it, didn't understand it or wanted it for their own reasons. You may be correct in thinking it was mismanaged. Personally, I believe it was a role that should never have been created in the first place.

 

For the reasons mentioned on this thread, mostly by Blyaunte, I agree the post is redundant. Time to move on.

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Is it just me or is that a pretty narrow range of improvements? Most of which seem to circulate around the Completionist Cape ... :unsure:

Mod Chris L was heavily involved in the design for the max/completionist capes, so it's no wonder that he'd be more willing and quick to work on a piece of content much closer to his heart :P

 

Next to that he has a fair part into combat stuff...

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Is it just me or is that a pretty narrow range of improvements? Most of which seem to circulate around the Completionist Cape ... :unsure:

Mod Chris L was heavily involved in the design for the max/completionist capes, so it's no wonder that he'd be more willing and quick to work on a piece of content much closer to his heart :P

 

Next to that he has a fair part into combat stuff...

 

Which only goes to demonstrate three things:

 

1. Jagex has lost touch with the average player. If the only forum that they listen to is the HLF, then they’ve lost contact with pretty much everyone else. HLF does not represent the “average” player.

 

(b) That said, neither do PMods represent the average player -- nor will they ever represent the average player. The moment you advance an ordinary player to another category, such as a PMod, that player loses his/her “average player” status. As such, Pmods are useless as a liaison group in much the same way the HLF is useless as a liaison group.

 

(iii) If anything, Jagex should be pouring over forums like TIF for more average player Feedback. All the more so because these forums, while moderated, are not generally moderated in such a manner as to spoon-feed the tender egos of Jmods when they break what is not already broken and ignore the obvious and sometimes glaring omissions in game.

 

I mean, really, hello? Jmods! Let’s stop with the SOF and SGS updates and get Prifddinas up and running already? Ok?

 

Hello? Hello!!!

 

*tap tap* Is this thing on?

 

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

 

:unsure:

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There is no budget to get Priffdinas up, as they want to include the Elf Task set, release it with ME3, and make it a high-level hub which will include training methods for different skills. Work is at least expected to begin on it this year, though.

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Jagex' high-level is 70+ (in that sense, the High Level Forum has ridiculous entry requirements) so we can basically ignore Priffdinas as useful location. There'll be adamant rocks, magic trees, shark fishing spots, hell maybe even some level 180 elves with crystal bows, for mad thieving xp.

 

Anyway about HLF being a bad liason: true, but so is any other sub-community. At least HLF players have played most of the game. Even if it's not required, virtually no HLF player has never played the major minigames, and amongst all players there's a lot of variety in focus.

Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011)

99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012)

99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012)

99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013)

99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013)

Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace

30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted

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There is no budget to get Priffdinas up, as they want to include the Elf Task set, release it with ME3, and make it a high-level hub which will include training methods for different skills. Work is at least expected to begin on it this year, though.

 

Oops! My bad! I forgot my [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags ... :lol:

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I thank all of you for your contributions so far!^_^ But could I please ask we stay on topic? I'm not able to do anything about the state of the HLF's, regardless of what my opinion is. I do understand in someways HLF's and P-Mods tie together, but not really much at all. Also, I fully understand some of you dislike P-Mods, I've had bad experiences with P-Mods in the past as well -- I've only been a P-Mod for 1 year out of the 5-6 years I've played. However, my personal opinion is I see P-Mods as needed, because certain things arise that need immediate action, or things such as gambling which was a huge disruption to most of the community, which although it took along time to get the ball rolling, it was taken out quickly when allowed.

 

What I'm asking for is ways you feel the P-Mod team can be improved, then I plan to relay this information to other P-Mods for discussion, and I'm sure changes will come out of it. As I said, I know some of you hate P-Mods, but P-Mods will not be removed from the game anytime soon (if ever), so I think a compromise could be mad and you could discuss what you think could improve your relations with the P-Mods.:)

 

Some examples I've seen from other areas:

- One player was muted for saying a fansite name on a few occasions; so I'll be relaying P-Mods need to know fansite information.

- One player said F2P is full of rule breakers and not enough mods; a possible solution is P2P mods visiting F2P worlds.

- One player said P-Mods aren't proactive enough in the community.

 

This is the type of things I'm looking for, it can be anything. "Start dealing with X", ect. I'm not set on what it needs to be, but as long as it's something with a solution and not just "I hate mods!! They need removed!!"

 

 

 

Thanks all for post so far!:D

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Why don't you try cleaning up world 77 around dungeoneering.

About the only time I wished I was still a pmod is when I was there. (of course you probably can't now since jagex keeps changing the rules)

Way too many spam bots sellling fc ranks and floors not to mention the undesirable people cursing everybody out and trolling floors. (in middle start cussing everybody out for no reason and rage quiting)

Alot these people need to find a new game (not runescape) to play.

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I thank all of you for your contributions so far!^_^ But could I please ask we stay on topic? I'm not able to do anything about the state of the HLF's, regardless of what my opinion is. I do understand in someways HLF's and P-Mods tie together, but not really much at all. Also, I fully understand some of you dislike P-Mods, I've had bad experiences with P-Mods in the past as well -- I've only been a P-Mod for 1 year out of the 5-6 years I've played. However, my personal opinion is I see P-Mods as needed, because certain things arise that need immediate action, or things such as gambling which was a huge disruption to most of the community, which although it took along time to get the ball rolling, it was taken out quickly when allowed.

 

What I'm asking for is ways you feel the P-Mod team can be improved, then I plan to relay this information to other P-Mods for discussion, and I'm sure changes will come out of it. As I said, I know some of you hate P-Mods, but P-Mods will not be removed from the game anytime soon (if ever), so I think a compromise could be mad and you could discuss what you think could improve your relations with the P-Mods. :)

 

Some examples I've seen from other areas:

- One player was muted for saying a fansite name on a few occasions; so I'll be relaying P-Mods need to know fansite information.

- One player said F2P is full of rule breakers and not enough mods; a possible solution is P2P mods visiting F2P worlds.

- One player said P-Mods aren't proactive enough in the community.

 

This is the type of things I'm looking for, it can be anything. "Start dealing with X", ect. I'm not set on what it needs to be, but as long as it's something with a solution and not just "I hate mods!! They need removed!!"

 

Thanks all for post so far! :D

 

Does anyone else get the feeling that he's not reading our posts? At least, not mine?

 

Gods this is like talking to Jagex ... #-o

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About the only time I wished I was still a pmod is when I was there.

 

Sorry but I have to ask, why did you "give it up"?

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I thank all of you for your contributions so far!^_^ But could I please ask we stay on topic? I'm not able to do anything about the state of the HLF's, regardless of what my opinion is. I do understand in someways HLF's and P-Mods tie together, but not really much at all. Also, I fully understand some of you dislike P-Mods, I've had bad experiences with P-Mods in the past as well -- I've only been a P-Mod for 1 year out of the 5-6 years I've played. However, my personal opinion is I see P-Mods as needed, because certain things arise that need immediate action, or things such as gambling which was a huge disruption to most of the community, which although it took along time to get the ball rolling, it was taken out quickly when allowed.

 

What I'm asking for is ways you feel the P-Mod team can be improved, then I plan to relay this information to other P-Mods for discussion, and I'm sure changes will come out of it. As I said, I know some of you hate P-Mods, but P-Mods will not be removed from the game anytime soon (if ever), so I think a compromise could be mad and you could discuss what you think could improve your relations with the P-Mods. :)

 

Some examples I've seen from other areas:

- One player was muted for saying a fansite name on a few occasions; so I'll be relaying P-Mods need to know fansite information.

- One player said F2P is full of rule breakers and not enough mods; a possible solution is P2P mods visiting F2P worlds.

- One player said P-Mods aren't proactive enough in the community.

 

This is the type of things I'm looking for, it can be anything. "Start dealing with X", ect. I'm not set on what it needs to be, but as long as it's something with a solution and not just "I hate mods!! They need removed!!"

 

Thanks all for post so far! :D

 

Does anyone else get the feeling that he's not reading our posts? At least, not mine?

 

Gods this is like talking to Jagex ... #-o

I don't think he's heard of the "Blyaunt has replied. /thread." rule. Believe it or not, there are people with views other then your own who believe that PMods can still be of some help.

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My only annoyance at the OPs response is he seems to have disregarded all points given by people who think the pmod role is entirely redundant now as "I hate mods."

 

We still outlined reasons and points about WHY we think that, which constitute valid feedback on the role of pmods that could be taken and used even in a context of pmods existing.

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Is it just me or is that a pretty narrow range of improvements? Most of which seem to circulate around the Completionist Cape ... :unsure:

Mod Chris L was heavily involved in the design for the max/completionist capes, so it's no wonder that he'd be more willing and quick to work on a piece of content much closer to his heart :P

 

Next to that he has a fair part into combat stuff...

 

Which only goes to demonstrate three things:

 

1. Jagex has lost touch with the average player. If the only forum that they listen to is the HLF, then they’ve lost contact with pretty much everyone else. HLF does not represent the “average” player.

 

(b) That said, neither do PMods represent the average player -- nor will they ever represent the average player. The moment you advance an ordinary player to another category, such as a PMod, that player loses his/her “average player” status. As such, Pmods are useless as a liaison group in much the same way the HLF is useless as a liaison group.

 

(iii) If anything, Jagex should be pouring over forums like TIF for more average player Feedback. All the more so because these forums, while moderated, are not generally moderated in such a manner as to spoon-feed the tender egos of Jmods when they break what is not already broken and ignore the obvious and sometimes glaring omissions in game.

 

I mean, really, hello? Jmods! Let’s stop with the SOF and SGS updates and get Prifddinas up and running already? Ok?

 

Hello? Hello!!!

 

*tap tap* Is this thing on?

 

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

 

:unsure:

 

I think he lost it perhaps because Blyaunt rambled on again and the content of the ramble was not original, as far as Runescape being geared around the completionist cape, well der! I thought that was the aim of the game, to get to the end so to speak, and on the subject of PMods, there seems to be a barrage of wrongful mutes recently , I was always of the opinion that PMods should be up to date on game updates etc., the ones I know have trouble finding the home page or even watching the BTS, if they are made PMod's then at least keep up with game updates but I think the main problem is that Jagex does not follow up on such reports, recently there was a mute (not me) that should have been investigated further. I also know a few mods on game who actually will hunt someone or a clan just to get some kind of personal gratification, or do it for a friend, I know because this has happened to me heh heh.... I do not think its the PMod as it is Jagex themselves.

 

Seriously, if they don't want to work on that, then why have a chat at all. So other than hiring more staff, maybe Jagex should not be spreading themselves so thinly, SOF seems now to be the distraction thrown at us when they let us down yet again....

 

And I have waves of "Shut up Meg" flow over me for some reason.....

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