Do YOU believe in God?

[HugATree]

"Intelligently discussing religion" is not right. Thats how useless arguments come about.

 

 

 

If you want to know about Christianity its a RELATIONSHIP with God, its not about sciences and history. Good luck to whoever wants to discuss it, it will get you no where. :wink:

 

Good job, thanks for demonstrating how to make a useless argument.

[____]

"Intelligently discussing religion" is not right. Thats how useless arguments come about.

 

 

 

If you want to know about Christianity its a RELATIONSHIP with God, its not about sciences and history. Good luck to whoever wants to discuss it, it will get you no where. :wink:

 

Good job, thanks for demonstrating how to make a useless argument.

Don't forget saying something that was more than likely covered 790 or so replies ago.

 

I'd check that, but I can't be arsed.

[SLOWSTORM]

Wow! That's alot of pages to read! On a topic this dead-locked, though, I just like to think naturally, how most people do (how does this affect me) The conclusion I always come to is this: How much does each side stand to lose if they're wrong? If Creationists are wrong, then they lived a good life for nothing, and their tombstone is their only eternal reward; if Evolutionists are wrong, they go to a lake of fire that with worms that don't die and fire that doesn't stop. That's like the rationale behind jumping from a window hoping to fly. If you fly, you had fun, but if you don't, you're in a world of hurt.

 

~Just figured I would clarify a little.

[sheepdean]

i believe in some fomr of superior being who was the cause for the expansion of the universe from the singularitry to twhat it is today - however, i dont think that there is any thing that has a decision on what i will do next or what my great-grandkids will look like

[pati]

i don't believe in god

 

but there has to be something cause science can't solve all our mysteries

[undedcow]

Here is a little story i was told when i was questioning weather God was real or not:

 

 

 

A man walking into the barbers and he over hears two member of the satff saying that God isn't real and reasons why.

 

The man is disgusted and walks out, but shortly after he comes back in, walks up to them and says, "There is no such thing as a barber."

 

The barbers turn around and say to him "Well of course there are barbers because we are standing right here!"

 

"No, if there was such thing as barbers you wouldn't see people going around with long hair."

 

 

 

 

 

Think about it

[HugATree]

Wow! That's alot of pages to read! On a topic this dead-locked, though, I just like to think naturally, how most people do (how does this affect me) The conclusion I always come to is this: How much does each side stand to lose if they're wrong? If Creationists are wrong, then they lived a good life for nothing, and their tombstone is their only eternal reward; if Evolutionists are wrong, they go to a lake of fire that with worms that don't die and fire that doesn't stop. That's like the rationale behind jumping from a window hoping to fly. If you fly, you had fun, but if you don't, you're in a world of hurt.

 

~Just figured I would clarify a little.

 

Great logic, where does the Christian Evolutionists go? Do you even have a clue what you're talking about?

[Phat_Stab]

Here's what I think. Of course, none of these are to be taken too seriously.

 

 

 

Let us start off with what I think, is a fundamental law of the universe: An object cannot exist without it's opposite.

 

 

 

With this in mind, we can immediately establish a few points. We are the primitive, the imperfect. God is on the other end of this see-saw; the omnipotent, the perfect. Therefore, if we are not divine, there must be a God. If we cannot create everything we see around us, there must've been something else that did it. So in conclusion, God would actually exist.

 

 

 

However, if the fact that God exists, exists. Wouldn't it make sense for the fact that God doesn't exist, to exist? If we all call ourselves as lowly beings, shouldn't it be possible that there are humans, who are gods? Heaven and hell co-exists, but wouldn't the possibility that they don't exist, also exist? We therefore rely on... actual evidence to pick the side of whether God exists.

 

 

 

So we have Jesus, one who performs miracles. He has a body, a head, a life and the list goes on... until we can come to the conclusion that Jesus is a human. Oh yes, God in the form of human. The father living within Jesus. Now, Jesus is a human being, yet he is divine himself. Shouldn't it suggest that we can achieve the same level as well? No, don't tell me we can't acquire an attribute we don't have. Any woman can suddenly become a man (as in attitude, or toughness) at the change of thought. Of course, this divine state has never been achieved, simply because we can't be bothered to set this as logic 1 in our minds, and accusations of blasphemy looms everywhere. I'd say, leave it to those with a free mind.

 

 

 

Now, let's move on to authenticacy. We all take the word of God for granted, the Bible. Yes, we know Jesus's teachings are all written in there, open to those who are willing to know them. But who actually wrote them? God is the actor in the book. Everyone is an actor playing out a role. Who then, is the spectator and the creator? Why bother referring it as a third-person view? How would someone keep track of what was happening every second within different places? Unless there is something that is more than God. Oh yes, let's go back to square one; is God really all-powerful? Does it even exist? Can you actually open up the possibility that God is just an actor, like us?

 

 

 

Miracles. Resurrection existed in the past. But I have not seen it in the present. Oh of course, there are other miracles. Like when a person is dying, he/she makes a full recovery. Most of these, I'd think, are the works of the human mind itself. If you say to yourself 'Praying brings holyness.', then you would feel more holy than someone who would go 'To hell with praying.' If I brainwashed someone fat and I told them to bear in mind that, he/she is an athlete, they could become an outstanding athlete without even trying. This is all theoretical of course, but the point I'm trying to make is, we all control our well-beings. If you think your luck is poor, you're going to be unlucky for the rest of your life. Miracles might not be miracles if we found out how to harness it.

 

 

 

So to be honest, believing in religion or in un/de/in-religion, is utterly useless. For all we know, man could've made up God. We could've been gods long ago, but we stopped being gods for a reason. To find out why, we must place ourselves as the role of god, and abandon it once again. The loop will never end.

 

 

 

Oh, and, no. I don't know what I was thinking. I was just having the little outbreak of thoughtfulness. My whole rambling could've existed, or not existed, truth, or total lie.

[pianofrieak2]

I'm very confused. At times you seem to be a Christian but at the end you become a postmodernist, Christian scientist, and believer in scientology.

 

 

 

I've never seen such a blend...

[geohood]

"Intelligently discussing religion" is not right. Thats how useless arguments come about.

 

 

 

If you want to know about Christianity its a RELATIONSHIP with God, its not about sciences and history. Good luck to whoever wants to discuss it, it will get you no where. :wink:

 

Good job, thanks for demonstrating how to make a useless argument.

 

 

 

 

 

What have your 'arguments' resulted in?

 

 

 

NOTHING. ;)

[MyPurpleCrayon]

True story.

[Happysniff]

Everyone has their own beliefs, I for one belive in God. But wouldn't it scare you that if there isn't a God or a Satan then there will be no afterlife? You will go into total non existence? From the day you start as a sperm, that is when you are really born.

 

 

 

I believe there is a Heaven and a Hll and that God is real.

 

 

 

He sent himself down to Earth as Jesus, some say.

 

 

 

Or Jesus may just be ralted to God.

 

 

 

But nonetheless, God is real.

 

 

 

Many atheists belive that the only reason why so many people belived in God is because the Christian faith is the biggest.

 

 

 

But I don't know that, I'm a mere 12 year old.

[Guest GhostRanger]

"Intelligently discussing religion" is not right. Thats how useless arguments come about.

 

 

 

If you want to know about Christianity its a RELATIONSHIP with God, its not about sciences and history. Good luck to whoever wants to discuss it, it will get you no where. :wink:

 

Good job, thanks for demonstrating how to make a useless argument.

 

 

 

 

 

What have your 'arguments' resulted in?

 

 

 

NOTHING. ;)

 

 

 

Our arguments have resulted in forcing us to think about our own beliefs even more than we did before by having them go through such challenging discourse. We might not change our minds, but we learn more about ourselves, our believes, and the beliefs of others by doing it. It's not about "winning" an argument.

[HugATree]

"Intelligently discussing religion" is not right. Thats how useless arguments come about.

 

 

 

If you want to know about Christianity its a RELATIONSHIP with God, its not about sciences and history. Good luck to whoever wants to discuss it, it will get you no where. :wink:

 

Good job, thanks for demonstrating how to make a useless argument.

 

 

 

 

 

What have your 'arguments' resulted in?

 

 

 

NOTHING. ;)

 

 

 

Unless you haven't noticed, most replies here have tried to discuss religion; then there are people who come here and use the opportunity to try and sell their religion, their replies can't even be taken seriously. What did your post achieve? I mean other than another waste of bandwidth with the same repeated fallacious crap?

[Fiery_Gyr]

This topic had become dreary <_

[Death_By_Pod]

 

What makes you and bear so adamant about the fact that the spiritual realm cannot interact with the physical realm? It just HAS to leave the material world alone after it CREATES it? Again, you're assuming your premise which shows how you assume conclusion.

 

 

 

What's wrong with pushing the supernatural into the physical realm? If the spiritual realm, as you say, CREATED the physical realm, surely it can interact with the physical realm UNDETECTED by scientific instruments.

 

 

 

And HugATree, as an evolutionist, you MUST be able to give valid reasons for not accepting the supernatural as existent. If you say the supernatural does not exist, then how do you explain the creation of the world?

 

 

 

Also, how would you describe love if you deny the spiritual?

 

 

 

There was a supernatural source for creation, however just after the very point at which the universe was created; the supernatural ceased to interact with the natural (if you want to call it an interaction in the first place). ItÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s kind of the definition of things; they didnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t interact with each other, one caused the other (that was all); if they in fact did interact then it would not be called supernatural.

 

 

 

This kind of goes with the above so IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ll mention a bit about it. NothingÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s to say that the spiritual isnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t interacting with us, and sure lets assume itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s interacts canÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t be measured. However there is one more thing you are missing, the effects. For all we know God could be pushing us to the ground and we are mistaking it for gravity, we canÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t see God or his action of pushing us but we do see moment to the centre of Earth. However to us, the notion of God pushing us to the ground is a naturalistic effect and for all intensive purposes it is. Just because we can explain things in the spiritual or the supernatural doesnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t mean we should or itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s the most meaningful. There is no reason to talk about God pushing us to the ground because it isnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t relevant; what is relevant is explaining the phenomena in terms which hold meaning to us (i.e. larger masses attracting more due to size, rather then large masses god pushing more due to aesthetics).

 

 

 

Evolution and creation are two different things; there are many Christians that do believe in evolution.

 

 

 

Love is a combination of biochemistry, psychology and neurology.

 

 

 

 

Some peeople do go around stealing and killing people. Absolute morality is NOT innate and there's no reason for it to be. The fact that we have access to understanding morality should be enough for us to decide to follow it. That's the point. Because we are fallible and capable of fallible thought, we are not going to innately know all right from wrong.

 

 

 

So if we canÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t tell the difference between right and wrong, whatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s the point? If we are so fallible that we donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t do absolute good, even when presented to us (in the bible for example), why should we consider it to be a practical alternative? WouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t absolute morality be most practical if it felt innate, it kind of goes against the whole thing. Absolute morality should be so obvious that it feels innate even though it isnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t, otherwise why would the creator choose one moral judgement over the other? Maybe absolute morality doesnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t have to make sense, who knows.

 

 

 

I just feel that absolute morality is an added complexity that can be explained by simpler and more practical idea. When we have some sort of iterative process of evolution to describe changes in genes which can also be applied to describe morality (which is probably the case), but to have God telling us a moral law instead just doesnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t make sense; itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s adding unnecessary complexity.

 

 

 

 

Isn't that proving the 10 Commandments? I'm sorry, but I fail to see your point against the Bible...if that is indeed your point. Perhaps I'm mistaken.

 

 

 

 

Yeah but those sort of things can be adequately described as a survival mechanism. IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢m talking things like 3rd World Labour, Cloning etc. Concepts that donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t directly deal with your survival (however I may be wrong, empathy/apathy would be a good survival mechanism). You donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t see any clear consensus in moral judgements independent of evolution (if such things even exist).

 

 

 

Tell me if you need clarification on any of this, IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢m a little tired.

[gonpost]

I want you guys to read this. If anything it'll liven up this incredibly old, slothy topic.

 

 

 

http://www.shoutwire.com/comments/12681 ... ill_Us_All[/url]

[pianofrieak2]

 

There was a supernatural source for creation, however just after the very point at which the universe was created; the supernatural ceased to interact with the natural (if you want to call it an interaction in the first place). ItÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s kind of the definition of things; they didnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t interact with each other, one caused the other (that was all); if they in fact did interact then it would not be called supernatural.

 

 

 

This kind of goes with the above so IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ll mention a bit about it. NothingÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s to say that the spiritual isnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t interacting with us, and sure lets assume itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s interacts canÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t be measured. However there is one more thing you are missing, the effects. For all we know God could be pushing us to the ground and we are mistaking it for gravity, we canÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t see God or his action of pushing us but we do see moment to the centre of Earth. However to us, the notion of God pushing us to the ground is a naturalistic effect and for all intensive purposes it is. Just because we can explain things in the spiritual or the supernatural doesnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t mean we should or itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s the most meaningful. There is no reason to talk about God pushing us to the ground because it isnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t relevant; what is relevant is explaining the phenomena in terms which hold meaning to us (i.e. larger masses attracting more due to size, rather then large masses god pushing more due to aesthetics).

 

 

 

Wow, I really enjoyed reading that. You surely thought about it before you said it, so props to you.

 

 

 

While I would agree that science throws God out the window in trying to explain certain aspects of creation, I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the aspects that actually affect our personal lives. How about healings? How about the mere coincidences that stack up and, looking back, make us wonder.

 

 

 

Now I know you may just say it's coincidence or healings were just the doctor making a mistake, but that's only because you put your faith in the natural.

 

 

 

Everyone puts their faith in something, whether it be science or the supernatural. So when one says, "Evolution doesn't require faith," they are being ignorant and foolish.

 

 

 

Evolution and creation are two different things; there are many Christians that do believe in evolution.

 

 

 

Yes, and I have no idea why. I know the one Scripture they all use, but why CAN'T the Bible be taken literally? Why compromise?

 

 

 

Even Christians believe in the micro-form of evolution, for it's obvious: macroevolution we have problems with.

 

 

 

Love is a combination of biochemistry, psychology and neurology.

 

 

 

Please explain. I am wondering how you compare love to the fight-or-flight response that our brain always has.

 

 

 

 

 

So if we canÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t tell the difference between right and wrong, whatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s the point? If we are so fallible that we donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t do absolute good, even when presented to us (in the bible for example), why should we consider it to be a practical alternative? WouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t absolute morality be most practical if it felt innate, it kind of goes against the whole thing. Absolute morality should be so obvious that it feels innate even though it isnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t, otherwise why would the creator choose one moral judgement over the other? Maybe absolute morality doesnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t have to make sense, who knows.

 

 

 

I just feel that absolute morality is an added complexity that can be explained by simpler and more practical idea. When we have some sort of iterative process of evolution to describe changes in genes which can also be applied to describe morality (which is probably the case), but to have God telling us a moral law instead just doesnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t make sense; itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s adding unnecessary complexity.

 

 

 

I believe absolute morality IS innate. Why do kids look around before they steal cookies from a jar or get that gut feeling when they lie. It's innate, but, again, one can suppress the conscience enough to where it becomes silent in the face of pure evil.

 

 

 

And your statement about absolute morality being impractical...I fail to see any other morality actually BEING practical, as you say.

 

 

 

 

Isn't that proving the 10 Commandments? I'm sorry, but I fail to see your point against the Bible...if that is indeed your point. Perhaps I'm mistaken.

 

 

 

 

Yeah but those sort of things can be adequately described as a survival mechanism. IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢m talking things like 3rd World Labour, Cloning etc. Concepts that donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t directly deal with your survival (however I may be wrong, empathy/apathy would be a good survival mechanism). You donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t see any clear consensus in moral judgements independent of evolution (if such things even exist).

 

 

 

I would say that the Bible is clear on those kinds of subjects, but people don't always listen to the Bible, do they? Just because people don't obey the Bible doesn't mean it doesn't talk about them.

[Bloodyrb]

Everyone has their own beliefs, I for one belive in God. But wouldn't it scare you that if there isn't a God or a Satan then there will be no afterlife? You will go into total non existence? From the day you start as a sperm, that is when you are really born.

 

 

 

I believe there is a Heaven and a Hll and that God is real.

 

 

 

He sent himself down to Earth as Jesus, some say.

 

 

 

Or Jesus may just be ralted to God.

 

 

 

But nonetheless, God is real.

 

 

 

Many atheists belive that the only reason why so many people belived in God is because the Christian faith is the biggest.

 

 

 

But I don't know that, I'm a mere 12 year old.

 

 

 

how do you even know god is a person?

[MyPurpleCrayon]

Everyone has their own beliefs, I for one belive in God. But wouldn't it scare you that if there isn't a God or a Satan then there will be no afterlife? You will go into total non existence? From the day you start as a sperm, that is when you are really born.

 

 

 

I believe there is a Heaven and a Hll and that God is real.

 

 

 

He sent himself down to Earth as Jesus, some say.

 

 

 

Or Jesus may just be ralted to God.

 

 

 

But nonetheless, God is real.

 

 

 

Many atheists belive that the only reason why so many people belived in God is because the Christian faith is the biggest.

 

 

 

But I don't know that, I'm a mere 12 year old.

 

 

 

how do you even know god is a person?

 

 

 

He never even said God is a person.

[pianofrieak2]

Everyone has their own beliefs, I for one belive in God. But wouldn't it scare you that if there isn't a God or a Satan then there will be no afterlife? You will go into total non existence? From the day you start as a sperm, that is when you are really born.

 

 

 

I believe there is a Heaven and a Hell and that God is real.

 

 

 

He sent himself down to Earth as Jesus, some say.

 

 

 

Or Jesus may just be ralted to God.

 

 

 

But nonetheless, God is real.

 

 

 

Many atheists belive that the only reason why so many people belived in God is because the Christian faith is the biggest.

 

 

 

But I don't know that, I'm a mere 12 year old.

 

 

 

Well just because God exists doesn't mean you're going to heaven. Besides, what does "ralted" mean?

[MyPurpleCrayon]

Everyone has their own beliefs, I for one belive in God. But wouldn't it scare you that if there isn't a God or a Satan then there will be no afterlife? You will go into total non existence? From the day you start as a sperm, that is when you are really born.

 

 

 

I believe there is a Heaven and a Hell and that God is real.

 

 

 

He sent himself down to Earth as Jesus, some say.

 

 

 

Or Jesus may just be ralted to God.

 

 

 

But nonetheless, God is real.

 

 

 

Many atheists belive that the only reason why so many people belived in God is because the Christian faith is the biggest.

 

 

 

But I don't know that, I'm a mere 12 year old.

 

 

 

Well just because God exists doesn't mean you're going to heaven. Besides, what does "ralted" mean?

 

 

 

Related maybe?

[Bly]

I believe in God, or, as we call him, Jehova.

[pianofrieak2]

I believe in God, or, as we call him, Jehova.

 

 

 

Wow, I'm impressed you know that. However, Jehovah is actually more commonly used in Judaism, the Jewish religion.

 

 

 

It's quite similar but not the same as Christianity (Oh, how I hate using that term. Maybe I should make up the term "Christ-follower." That would be better...)

[my_pet_worm]

I pointed out 6 or so of the questions had nothing to do with evolution, not that they couldn't be answered.

 

 

 

 

Um, am I the only one who thinks you can't read?

 

 

 

"Questions for evolutionists"

 

 

 

"Questions for evolutionists"

 

 

 

"Questions for evolutionists"

 

 

 

You seem to think I said "Questions about evolution"

 

 

 

And as I read over the 3pages of posts since I posted the questions, NO ONE has yet answered the matter questions, what are the chances?