hmm, just like to say once again, this cap is stupid.. althought convinient for jagex when they made rs2 (no-one really had 1b) it's now outdated, i don't know whymost of this is flame, it's simple,, more and more people are gaining more and more gp, somthing needs to be done, simplest thing for jagex would be to rasie the cape a few bill. And moo cow guy, i'm pretty sure alot of people on these forums have seen 10m, and a large percentage own that much.

 

 

 

I'm not the richest person, but to me, merchanting is just another skill that can be trained and had fun with once in a while, to get that much gp is an achivement to anyone, in my opinion probably harder than some 99 skills, and the gp (depending how it's used) could create the 99 skills you need., i'm rambling, hope at least a bit of this made sence, if not, ignore me, most do...

 

 

About people hating merchants, its a predjudice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

first slavery, then hitler, now people on internet forums. WHEN DOES IT END??!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

again, im sure jagex would rather have runescape be an item for item economy where the richest are those who actually play the game instead of those who dont do anything for skills or combat and just make trade after trade to increase their networth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you try and come onto these forums where a majority of these people havent seen 10m yet to get people on your side, but it doesnt work. you are a minority, and very few people want to see runescape turn into moneyscape where everyone is just trying to get rich and not playing the actual game itself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

no ones yet debated my argument, could one of you defending r2 give me your reasons why im not right?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First of all, even if GP was removed (which would cause MASSIVE problems to gameplay), and all trades were technically conducted in "item for item" as you stated, how would that hurt merchants? If anything, merchants could make much more profit, as the item values would be MUCH LESS defined than they are with a common currency.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never said it should be removed entirely, I said it should just be worthless when it comes to big item trades.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ever played diablo 2? it works perfectly there and the only "rare" items are the best items in the game for actually playing the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

yes merchanting will exist and that cant be stopped (its not entirely a bad thing), but money hungry [puncture]s like yourself who just wait for the gp stack to get bigger are lame. try playing the game sometime, you're paying for it (y)

to merchant is to play the game!, -.-, it's just a way that a person chooses to play + money hungry [puncture]s?, wtf.. i bet you want gp to "aid your game play" too i mean, who doesn't, to have billions is just extreme, like people who are in 21 ranking for any skill, to get there they had to put time and effort into what they did, and they have somthing to show for it, same with merching

 

About people hating merchants, its a predjudice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

first slavery, then hitler, now people on internet forums. WHEN DOES IT END??!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

again, im sure jagex would rather have runescape be an item for item economy where the richest are those who actually play the game instead of those who dont do anything for skills or combat and just make trade after trade to increase their networth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you try and come onto these forums where a majority of these people havent seen 10m yet to get people on your side, but it doesnt work. you are a minority, and very few people want to see runescape turn into moneyscape where everyone is just trying to get rich and not playing the actual game itself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

no ones yet debated my argument, could one of you defending r2 give me your reasons why im not right?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyone wanna come to my conentra...... i mean, merchant convention. But seriously, prejudice, by definiton, is a strong, unfavorable opinion without adaquate reason. People don't have a reason to hate merchants, they just do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The item for item economy sounds ok, i guess. Ive never played diablo2, so I'm not exactly sure how your example works. However, it's probably too late to change the economy. Like I said, I've never seen this system used, so I can't be exactly sure.

to merchant is to play the game!, -.-, it's just a way that a person chooses to play + money hungry [puncture]s?, *.. i bet you want gp to "aid your game play" too i mean, who doesn't, to have billions is just extreme, like people who are in 21 ranking for any skill, to get there they had to put time and effort into what they did, and they have somthing to show for it, same with merching

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

great, and with gp caps he can still show it off, just in the form of items instead.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The item for item economy sounds ok, i guess. Ive never played diablo2, so I'm not exactly sure how your example works. However, it's probably too late to change the economy. Like I said, I've never seen this system used, so I can't be exactly sure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

its not too late, its just now happening. with the cap money will become worthless over time and people will deal in items.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

new higher level items need to be introduced for this to work, of course, but we're on the right track.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

great, and with gp caps he can still show it off, just in the form of items instead.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

erm, what if you don't want to show off your wealth, i mean.. some people don't wanna buy paper hats, i don't, if i have 2.1 bill+ i would want that in my bank and not a party hat, an over-rated item that should have been only for those who got one on the day (i was there , but i'm not gonna play xmas day! :shock: )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

great, and with gp caps he can still show it off, just in the form of items instead.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

erm, what if you don't want to show off your wealth, i mean.. some people don't wanna buy paper hats, i don't, if i have 2.1 bill+ i would want that in my bank and not a party hat, an over-rated item that should have been only for those who got one on the day (i was there , but i'm not gonna play xmas day! :shock: )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I want a pony but my mommy wont buy me one :cry:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

doesnt matter if you say you want it, its in the game and its not gonna change. how long have people wanted stats past 99 and that hasnt happened yet?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

also if you would rather have 2.1 billion gp than 10 party hats that appreciate over time and will soon be worth more than 2.1 billion then you are an idiot and thats why you'll never have that much money.

well, i guess the cap is a good thing, phat set is over the cap, well i guess andrew will have the last laugh. he didnt want phats to be things worth ungodly amounts of $ and well he cant just make them no-trade he will just let them max out the GP cap

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

great, and with gp caps he can still show it off, just in the form of items instead.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

erm, what if you don't want to show off your wealth, i mean.. some people don't wanna buy paper hats, i don't, if i have 2.1 bill+ i would want that in my bank and not a party hat, an over-rated item that should have been only for those who got one on the day (i was there , but i'm not gonna play xmas day! :shock: )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I want a pony but my mommy wont buy me one :cry:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

doesnt matter if you say you want it, its in the game and its not gonna change. how long have people wanted stats past 99 and that hasnt happened yet?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

also if you would rather have 2.1 billion gp than 10 party hats that appreciate over time and will soon be worth more than 2.1 billion then you are an idiot and thats why you'll never have that much money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

haha, your funny, it's a game dude, why bother putting effort into buying stuff, i mean, it's a personal choice, i would rather have the cash than a worthless item, you need to calm down and realise that,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

oh and i did want a pony, and i got one eventually :poor attempt at sarcasm:, the cap wil have to rise oneday, same to stat cap to get games full potential, bye i'm off to bed, no point in arguing

The idea of certed money sounds like one of the better ideas to come out of this.

 

 

 

To reduce lower levels/less wealthy people from using the certs to scam others, the only available cert values could be in intervals of 5m (5, 10, 15, etc), rather than any amount. If any amount could be noted, then a greater amount of people would be able to use them to scam others, like switching between a 10k and 100k cert.

 

 

 

The value would also be clearly placed on the cert, to further reduce possible scamming.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For example, they could appear like this::

 

 

 

 

 

 

(yes I know its an rs1 cert, and yes I know I'm bad at using MS paint)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The certing of money would only take up an extra 1 or 2 bank spaces, so wealthy players (especially f2pers) wouldn't have to worry about bank room.

Now that I think of it more, this idea is horrible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If phats will raise to a billion, that will just ruin the game. Sell one and you can buy several skills to 99 with close to no effort (I know, you still have to do the clicking to use the resources, but that's nothing compared to those people who have to earn their money in a fair way.) Be fortunate enough to have a full set or even a few, and you'll have even more insane advantage compared to regular people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't have anything against merchanting, but this is getting badly out of control. All this topic shows is that there are not enough good money sinks in the game.

 

 

 

The problem, like I have said before, lies in those uninformed about the cap. Any player who is unfortunate enough to go over the cap will lose ALL his GP, and as this post shows, barely anybody even knows this cap exists. Now, I agree, there's really no reason to be holding 2100M at the moment (but there are some cases where it does make sense). However, in the very near future, Party Hat Sets will be worth well over a Billion GP. I wouldn't be surprised to see Sets go over the cap by next year, assuming no major changes take place in the economy. If this rings true, then we are likely to see HUGE problems with players losing BILLIONS just because of some cap.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well... looks to me like people are becoming informed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I look at it this way. Jagex shouldn't bend over and give into people for the simple fact that they want more. There is a point where the line should be drawn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fact is, and its been said countless times, there is way too much GP in the game to begin with.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously the cap is there for a reason. And its there for reasons that Jagex probably didn't even realize, but are for the good anyways. Point being... if there is a cap... items wont be able to be worth more then that cap for the simple fact that there is a cap.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rares shouldn't even be tradable in my opinion. So yous are lucky to even be able to trade them if you ask me. If you run into a price cap, then thats just tough luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This cap is something that shouldn't be changed. And I don't see Jagex making a change just because a bunch of players want to buy and sell rares for insanely high prices. The items weren't brought in for that reason anyways (as others have already probably said). So why you think they would change the cap is beyond me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Go splurge a little and your problem is solved, until you hit the cap again. Rinse and repeat. Thats right... its that simple.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Incase I didn't make it clear... I don't see a silly system being implemented that allows more money into banks either. That would defeat the purpose of a price cap now wouldn't it?

if u r full on gold then give the excess to me!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i agree. my current goal is infinity so any gold is apreciated

 

if u r full on gold then give the excess to me!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i agree. my current goal is infinity so any gold is apreciated

 

 

 

Sorry, you can't, there's a cap :lol:

 

 

 

 

The problem, like I have said before, lies in those uninformed about the cap. Any player who is unfortunate enough to go over the cap will lose ALL his GP, and as this post shows, barely anybody even knows this cap exists. Now, I agree, there's really no reason to be holding 2100M at the moment (but there are some cases where it does make sense). However, in the very near future, Party Hat Sets will be worth well over a Billion GP. I wouldn't be surprised to see Sets go over the cap by next year, assuming no major changes take place in the economy. If this rings true, then we are likely to see HUGE problems with players losing BILLIONS just because of some cap.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well... looks to me like people are becoming informed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I look at it this way. Jagex shouldn't bend over and give into people for the simple fact that they want more. There is a point where the line should be drawn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fact is, and its been said countless times, there is way too much GP in the game to begin with.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously the cap is there for a reason. And its there for reasons that Jagex probably didn't even realize, but are for the good anyways. Point being... if there is a cap... items wont be able to be worth more then that cap for the simple fact that there is a cap.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rares shouldn't even be tradable in my opinion. So yous are lucky to even be able to trade them if you ask me. If you run into a price cap, then thats just tough luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This cap is something that shouldn't be changed. And I don't see Jagex making a change just because a bunch of players want to buy and sell rares for insanely high prices. The items weren't brought in for that reason anyways (as others have already probably said). So why you think they would change the cap is beyond me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Go splurge a little and your problem is solved, until you hit the cap again. Rinse and repeat. Thats right... its that simple.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Incase I didn't make it clear... I don't see a silly system being implemented that allows more money into banks either. That would defeat the purpose of a price cap now wouldn't it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Y2G, this cap has nothing to do with gameplay, it is simply technical. I am not a programmer, so I can't say how easy or difficult it would be to raise the cap, but I can say with the utmost certainty that this cap has no effect on Rare prices. All this cap will do is rob a few players of billions of hard-earned GP, most likely players that had no idea of this hidden cap. So long as Blues are worth less than 2100M, there will be no problem buying and selling Party Hats, and prices will continue to rise (and trust me, Blues have quite a few years to go before coming anywhere near that price). This is not a solution for Rare prices by any means, and it affects not only Merchants, but all players who have enough to hit the cap.

Has anyone actually broken the cap yet and lost all their money? Back in classic I broke the original cap and it just split my pile of gp into a second stack. I don't know why they would have changed it in rs2 to just delete all your gp if the previous system already had the code to just make a new stack. I don't know much about programming, so I may be wrong on how it works, but it seems logical that it would just make a new stack like it used to in the older version of the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That being said, the real issue isn't the gp cap. The problem isn't merchants, party hats, or any other rares either. The problem is inflation. Do you know what the original gp cap was when I broke it back in classic? 65k. That's right, not 65 million, billion, or trillion, the original cap was 65,536 gp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So how did we get here? Sure there are a few things that contributed, but the biggest cause, by far, is alching. The high level alchemy spell creates artificial demand, and that's what has caused this rampant inflation that's causing so many problems now. In a functioning economy, goods are only purchased until the demand is satisfied, and price either drops or the good stops selling. However, in rs, the alchemy spell keeps 'buying' your product, well after the market is saturated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As an example, I'll use myself and just two of the skills I've levelled. My fletching and smithing are both 99. To accomplish this, I've fletched over 53,000 magic long bows and smithed over 65,000 steel plates. Now, what did I do with all those items? I either alched them myself, or had someone alch for me. So for fletching, I alone brought 81.4 million gp(1536 x 53000) into the game, and for smithing, the figure is 78 million gp (1200 x 65000). That's correct, I checked my numbers. I alone brought close to 160,000,000 gp into the game from levelling only two skills to 99. I'm going to say that again at the beginning of this next paragraph just so all of you skimming through this post read that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A SINGLE PLAYER, RAISING JUST TWO SKILLS, CREATED 160 MILLION GP THAT DIDN'T BELONG IN THE ECONOMY. Now, that's just me, and that's just two skills. Now take into account all the other money I've brought into the game with other skills. I bet you have a pretty big number in your head now. Yeah, that's just me. Now multiply times the number of players who have 99 fletching, smithing, or any other productive skill.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's a big number, right? Now, keep that incredibly large number in your head, and ask me why party hats are worth hundreds of millions of gp. Merchants can ask for whatever price they want for a rare, but if the gp doesn't exist for a buyer to spend, the merchant doesn't do much merchanting, and the rare prices are much more reasonable as a result.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Merchants aren't the problem, party hats and other rares aren't the problem. The economy is skewed due to artificial demand, causing rampant inflation. More and more money is essentially being 'printed' every day, and the amount generated is only increasing at an exponential rate as time progresses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So what can be done? Leave it alone, and wait for players to break the trillion gp mark? Sure, we could try that. But I'd rather try to shut down some of these money printing machines. Yes, I want to stop people from alching. Now, before you get all upset, I do have a reasonable solution. The spell wouldn't even need to be removed, and you could still alch if you wanted to. I just want to give you a better alternative. That's right, I want to help both you and the economy. Now I have your attention back, don't I?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Trade in your finished goods. Not to a store, and not to an alcher. Bring your finished goods to master guildsman for your skill, and have him reward you with xp for your hard work. Now, at this point, you decide to mention to me that this feature doesn't exist in rs. And this is the part where I tell you it should. Jagex, write this down, you'll want to use this later.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Allow me to take the steel plates I've just smithed to Horvik the Armorer, and trade them in for smithing xp. Allow me to trade those magic longbows in at the ranging guild for fletching xp. So, not only will the players following in my footsteps not create 160 million gp, but they'll actually have to make less items to get there. Not only is all the artificial demand gone, but a portion of the unnecessary goods are gone as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This concept does need to be explained a bit further to iron out the smaller details, but that's the main point, that's what you and Jagex need to know. Money will stop being produced artificially, and there will be a reduction in the overall number of products produced.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The overall net effect of this simple idea is staggering. The gp cap is just one of the minor things that's no longer an issue. In the bigger picture, the prices of rares will drop and people will level more efficiently, without a negative effect on the economy. Merchants will actually buy and sell useful items, such as ores or logs. As a result, the merchants will be forced to compete with one another over the raw materials. This means lower markups for the merchant, and more money in the pocket of the producer, and less out of the pocket of the end user.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Everybody saves money buying raw materials, everybody makes more from selling their raw supplies, and rare items come down to a much more reasonable price. Merchants stop making literally billions of gp, inflation is suppressed, and the economy is fully functioning as it should.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I remember a time when the gp cap was set at 1/32000th of what it is today. I really don't want to look back in a few years and remember the time when the gp cap was 1/32000th of 67,200,000,000,000 gp. I'd really hate to have to dish out a few trillion gp for a paper hat.

heres the main thing that would work, 4 different coins.

 

 

 

Bronze coin = .01 of a silver coin

 

 

 

Silver coin = .01 of a bronze coin

 

 

 

Gold coin = .01 of a Dragon coin

 

 

 

dragon coin = 100 gold coins

 

 

 

1000 silver coins

 

 

 

10,000 bronze coins

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

now have a 2.1 bil coin cap on each

 

 

 

it now takes 4 bank spaces, but allows you to hold way more coins

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you can ask the banker to make so many bronze coins into a gold coin, or silver or dragon and etc

 

 

 

more bank slots :( and scammers will change gold for bronze...

Duh!...what about the xp cap. That's been around a lot longer than the gp cap. My first thought is that I don't see Merchandising on the skill list.... and considering that autoers are significant contributors to wealth accumulation, I really can't see that as a major priority. Up the XP cap I say!!! :lol:

Trade in your finished goods. Not to a store, and not to an alcher. Bring your finished goods to master guildsman for your skill, and have him reward you with xp for your hard work. Now, at this point, you decide to mention to me that this feature doesn't exist in rs. And this is the part where I tell you it should. Jagex, write this down, you'll want to use this later.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Allow me to take the steel plates I've just smithed to Horvik the Armorer, and trade them in for smithing xp. Allow me to trade those magic longbows in at the ranging guild for fletching xp. So, not only will the players following in my footsteps not create 160 million gp, but they'll actually have to make less items to get there. Not only is all the artificial demand gone, but a portion of the unnecessary goods are gone as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In theory this is a good idea, but there are some flaws to it.

 

 

 

If the alchemy spells would still exist, I'd say 50% of the people would still want to alch their product. Some of them would do it for the cash, some for the easy mage xp. Sure there's a 50% reduction of created coins but a new problem is formed by creating xp. The problem with fletching would be that more people would reach 70 or 85 fletching, which in turn causes more money to flow into the economy.

 

 

 

Another problem with created xp is that you sell your finished product like a steel plate, which should not get you anymore xp, to an xp dealer. This would make leveling skills way easier. To counter this the entire xp per bar would have to be recalculated.

 

 

 

 

 

The problem, like I have said before, lies in those uninformed about the cap. Any player who is unfortunate enough to go over the cap will lose ALL his GP, and as this post shows, barely anybody even knows this cap exists. Now, I agree, there's really no reason to be holding 2100M at the moment (but there are some cases where it does make sense). However, in the very near future, Party Hat Sets will be worth well over a Billion GP. I wouldn't be surprised to see Sets go over the cap by next year, assuming no major changes take place in the economy. If this rings true, then we are likely to see HUGE problems with players losing BILLIONS just because of some cap.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well... looks to me like people are becoming informed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I look at it this way. Jagex shouldn't bend over and give into people for the simple fact that they want more. There is a point where the line should be drawn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fact is, and its been said countless times, there is way too much GP in the game to begin with.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously the cap is there for a reason. And its there for reasons that Jagex probably didn't even realize, but are for the good anyways. Point being... if there is a cap... items wont be able to be worth more then that cap for the simple fact that there is a cap.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rares shouldn't even be tradable in my opinion. So yous are lucky to even be able to trade them if you ask me. If you run into a price cap, then thats just tough luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This cap is something that shouldn't be changed. And I don't see Jagex making a change just because a bunch of players want to buy and sell rares for insanely high prices. The items weren't brought in for that reason anyways (as others have already probably said). So why you think they would change the cap is beyond me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Go splurge a little and your problem is solved, until you hit the cap again. Rinse and repeat. Thats right... its that simple.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Incase I didn't make it clear... I don't see a silly system being implemented that allows more money into banks either. That would defeat the purpose of a price cap now wouldn't it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Y2G, this cap has nothing to do with gameplay, it is simply technical. I am not a programmer, so I can't say how easy or difficult it would be to raise the cap, but I can say with the utmost certainty that this cap has no effect on Rare prices. All this cap will do is rob a few players of billions of hard-earned GP, most likely players that had no idea of this hidden cap. So long as Blues are worth less than 2100M, there will be no problem buying and selling Party Hats, and prices will continue to rise (and trust me, Blues have quite a few years to go before coming anywhere near that price). This is not a solution for Rare prices by any means, and it affects not only Merchants, but all players who have enough to hit the cap.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

sorry to say it r2, i have dabbled in programming, after all day trying to remember my VB teachers website i found it(ct.wacc.cc) i have found the actual variable paramater of which you speak of, it is defined a as "long"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Type, ID, Stores Memory, required Range of Values (commas added to clarify)

 

 

 

Long, Ing, Integers 4 bytes, +/- 2 billion

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

this explains why your $ turns to negative after 2.1bil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

more info on variables to solve this

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if your seriously concerned id suggest you actually look at the site, read over the definitions and ATTACK jagex with questions why they arent using this or that variable and how the feel on the cap...[/url]

In theory this is a good idea, but there are some flaws to it.

 

 

 

If the alchemy spells would still exist, I'd say 50% of the people would still want to alch their product. Some of them would do it for the cash, some for the easy mage xp. Sure there's a 50% reduction of created coins but a new problem is formed by creating xp. The problem with fletching would be that more people would reach 70 or 85 fletching, which in turn causes more money to flow into the economy.

 

 

 

Another problem with created xp is that you sell your finished product like a steel plate, which should not get you anymore xp, to an xp dealer. This would make leveling skills way easier. To counter this the entire xp per bar would have to be recalculated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't want to get too complicated in the first post, it was already long enough as it was. First, yes, the alchemy spells would still be used, but very rarely. Jagex would have to make sure the xp trade in option was the right amount so that it was traded in instead of alched. This would most likely mean that xp on the initial production would have to be dropped a bit, but the compensation at the end trading in would make up for the loss, with a nice little bonus thrown in as well. It would have to be balanced properly to be effective, but I do think it would not only be effective, but a much better alternative than just leaving things alone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do appreciate the feedback though, I wasn't sure if anyone would even bother to read all of that :P

First, yes, the alchemy spells would still be used, but very rarely. Jagex would have to make sure the xp trade in option was the right amount so that it was traded in instead of alched. This would most likely mean that xp on the initial production would have to be dropped a bit, but the compensation at the end trading in would make up for the loss, with a nice little bonus thrown in as well. It would have to be balanced properly to be effective, but I do think it would not only be effective, but a much better alternative than just leaving things alone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do appreciate the feedback though, I wasn't sure if anyone would even bother to read all of that :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would have to disagree with high alching going to be rarely used. If not for monetary use, it is the only spell you can use for hours on end with the cost of very few runes compared to the magic xp gained.

 

 

 

Even if you would cut the production xp in half and give the other half plus a 10% bonus when the product is sold for xp, people would still want to high alch part of their produce to get back what the raw materials costed them.

 

 

 

And that is exactly where the problem is: When I want to go from 85 to 99 fletching I need to chop or buy 53k magic logs. Not many people have just 53M to spare and buy that 99. So most people work with the method of buying as many magic logs as you can, alch their produce, buy more logs, alch, buy, alch, buy, etc. People simply want their money back and make a profit if possible. With selling your produce for xp, you don't make your money back and you certainly don't make a profit, so most people won't use this method.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From an economic point of view your solution would be perfect, but when the high alchemy spell would remain in game I don't think many people would prefer to sell for xp rather then for money.

 

First, yes, the alchemy spells would still be used, but very rarely. Jagex would have to make sure the xp trade in option was the right amount so that it was traded in instead of alched. This would most likely mean that xp on the initial production would have to be dropped a bit, but the compensation at the end trading in would make up for the loss, with a nice little bonus thrown in as well. It would have to be balanced properly to be effective, but I do think it would not only be effective, but a much better alternative than just leaving things alone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do appreciate the feedback though, I wasn't sure if anyone would even bother to read all of that :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would have to disagree with high alching going to be rarely used. If not for monetary use, it is the only spell you can use for hours on end with the cost of very few runes compared to the magic xp gained.

 

 

 

Even if you would cut the production xp in half and give the other half plus a 10% bonus when the product is sold for xp, people would still want to high alch part of their produce to get back what the raw materials costed them.

 

 

 

And that is exactly where the problem is: When I want to go from 85 to 99 fletching I need to chop or buy 53k magic logs. Not many people have just 53M to spare and buy that 99. So most people work with the method of buying as many magic logs as you can, alch their produce, buy more logs, alch, buy, alch, buy, etc. People simply want their money back and make a profit if possible. With selling your produce for xp, you don't make your money back and you certainly don't make a profit, so most people won't use this method.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From an economic point of view your solution would be perfect, but when the high alchemy spell would remain in game I don't think many people would prefer to sell for xp rather then for money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wonder, make a thread about this. I would love to read you two's back-and-forths. Each rebuttal convinced me that the previous statements were lacking logic. Start a thread so I can get tricked for hours straight. :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On-Topic - I honestly don't think Jagex will change this. It effects few people and will EVENTUALLY lead to a "Diablo 2"-esque sort of item market for rares.

Meh...They don't need to change it.

I would have to disagree with high alching going to be rarely used. If not for monetary use, it is the only spell you can use for hours on end with the cost of very few runes compared to the magic xp gained.

 

 

 

Even if you would cut the production xp in half and give the other half plus a 10% bonus when the product is sold for xp, people would still want to high alch part of their produce to get back what the raw materials costed them.

 

 

 

And that is exactly where the problem is: When I want to go from 85 to 99 fletching I need to chop or buy 53k magic logs. Not many people have just 53M to spare and buy that 99. So most people work with the method of buying as many magic logs as you can, alch their produce, buy more logs, alch, buy, alch, buy, etc. People simply want their money back and make a profit if possible. With selling your produce for xp, you don't make your money back and you certainly don't make a profit, so most people won't use this method.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From an economic point of view your solution would be perfect, but when the high alchemy spell would remain in game I don't think many people would prefer to sell for xp rather then for money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I initially wanted to do away with alching completely, or give it a drastic reduction in how much was returned. This is a much more simple fix, but I'd worry that all the raw material producers, like the miners and woodcutters, would take the biggest hit. It seems like raw material prices, and the incomes of those raw material producers, are tied directly to the high alch prices in most skills, most noticeably in woodcutting/fletching.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Realizing that completely doing away with alching wasn't a viable option, I came up with this trade in idea as a substitute. Keeping the alchemy spell in place will hold the prices of raw materials steady, because the person creating the raw materials can make the final product themselves and get a portion of the money they deserve. I don't think the current prices of raw materials are very problematic at this stage of the inflated economy, so I'd rather not mess around with them too much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The point you brought up about recycling your fletching profits is also very important. People are allowed to buy and alch in a never-ending cycle, and it's a huge problem. The solution to this complicates things a bit further, but I believe it's still a workable solution. It would involve changing the alching spell to either mimic the general store buying patterns, or to just put a time limit on alching.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If an item decreases in price as you alch more and more of them, people will be getting less and less gp per item, until they eventually reach a point that it is better to trade in for the xp reward. Raw material producers can still get their cash out if they need it, but for the most part, alching is drastically reduced, and virtually eliminated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Instead, if a time limit were introduced, that would just slow down the production of gp to a point that it would be a better use of a player's time to just sell for xp and earn more gp from a different source. Currently, I think players can alch something like 1000 items in an hour. This means that your 53k bows could be alched in 53 hours of game play. If Jagex were to only allow 100 alchs in an hour, it suddenly takes 530 hours of game play. Most players looking to get their money back using the recycling method will think twice before committing to 530 hours of alching. Again with this situation, raw producers are saved, items end up traded in to save time, and alching is cut way down.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To address the issue of magic xp more specifically, I'll first point out that both of these methods would cut way down on the number of people alching for cheap/free. They would move on to other methods that are either faster or cheaper. The method would still remain an option to those that wanted it, but at a much slower pace. I've also heard good things about the new mage training mini-game, but I don't know if the people making money off of it were only doing so because of the initial demand of the new robes and wands. I haven't done too much experimenting in there, so I don't know if that's a viable break-even option for mages, but even if it's not, Jagex could make minor adjustments to that as well to provide for the mages that are taking a hit from the alch reductions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for using hard numbers and percentages, that's not something I concentrated too much on, because it would require someone to run a whole bunch of numbers to find the optimal settings. The original numbers I was thinking might be appropriate were something like and 80/40 split, where players would get 80% of the current xp, and a bonus of 40% of the current xp when traded in. I think most people wouldn't object too much to the +/- of 20% on the current xp values, and the people that trade in their items end up getting 50% more xp (based on the adjusted xp) than they would from alching the item.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think this, coupled with one of those two alching adjustments listed above, is a solution that minimizes the damage to all parties involved, while doing the most to salvage the economy before it gets too far out of control. Like I said before, it's a complicated fix, and I certainly didn't want to throw the whole thing out there in a single post, but I think it can be done, and I think it needs to be done. Also, feel free to play around with those percentages I gave for the xp adjustments, I didn't run any numbers to check how things would turn out, so any feedback or thoughts on those would be appreciated.