Socialism doesn't work because greed and self interest is an undeniable part of human society. The greater good immediately breaks down into, well capitalism.

 

 

 

 

 

Capitalism fails because (especially free-market capitalism) the concept of self-interest eventually serving the greater interest, well, fails. Miserably. Corporations are living proof of that.

 

 

 

 

 

Democracy fails because inevitably, as proven by the U.S., government eventually ceases to exist to serve its citizens but exists to exist. The focus of our government is to continue its existence. Politicians pander to corporate and private interests (Exxon, Haliburton, etc) because they can't survive any other way. Without money and support from those interests, they don't have enough money to fund their campaigns and get reelected. Most of the focus of a House of Reps or Senate member is on reelection, not policymaking.

 

 

 

Am I just hopelessly cynical? Or is the only way for society to function in a truly benevolent way to have rule through one benevolent tyrant? And even if that tyrant is corrupt, evil and ruthless, at least they'd be honest about it?

 

 

 

Maybe the conspiracy theory of the Illuminati is not a theory, but a dream.

 

 

 

 

 

Thoughts?

I think that maybe you read an article somewhere because your arguments are deeply flawed and you seem to be very confused as to qhat exactly Democracy and Capitalism is for example.

 

 

 

You also dont mention sub types of socialism, marxism, leninism and stalinism for example. what about communism?

 

If you are going to make some kind of argument about all forms of society are doomed at least expland om some of the other major ideas.

 

 

 

I personally belive that once a gorup of people have turned into a democratic state there is no way back. Not only are corporations greedy but so are the people. I think it was Marx (correct me if im wrong) that theorised the orders of society and he mentioned that communism is the last state in society after democracy but i dont belive that particular theory. Unless theres a complete fall out and the world starts again noone will ever want to leave democracy.

read an article? what article?

 

 

 

You don't exactly explain how my arguments are flawed.

 

 

 

You misunderstand my topic- it wasn't so much "we're all doomed" as a "we're never going to find a system of government that can work within human society.

 

 

 

So lets hear you tell me more about how i'm flawed and less about how smart you are because you *didn't* read what you wrote in an article.

*Thinks about socialistic democracy*

 

 

 

*Thinks about Sweden*

Ummm Communism ftw?

Democracy has nothing to do with socialism and capitalism.

 

Capitalism and socialism are economical systems, while democracy is a political system. Even though most capitalist countryes are "democracyes" and most socialist countryes have authoritarian governments, there's no way you can compare those systems with democracy, wich, actually, really doesn't literally exist.

 

I'd say the country with the more literall applyed democracy (not total, however) is Switzerland, where nearly every mattering issue is solved with a plebiscite.

 

The political system you call democracy on your post is actually more of a republican system, if you think about the definitions of both things. And those are systems you can compare.

Maybe there isn't a 'pure' system that is perfect, but there are mishmashes of systems (like we have now) which make the best of an imperfect world. So we're not all doomed. Just not perfectly efficient. The real debate isn't between socialism and capitalism, between black and white, it's instead between the shades of grey. What parts work best where and in what degree.

You don't exactly explain how my arguments are flawed.

 

 

 

You don't exactly explain what your arguement is.

 

There isn't such a thing as just 'socialism', but different kinds tried in different places. Would you care to explain, specifically, these different regimes and why they have/will fail? Then we can explain, specifically, why your arguement is flawed.

 

 

 

At the moment, due to your vagueness, you don't warrant a detailed answer. You're merely smeg-stirring; Michael Moore style.

Well, I'd agree with you on almost everything.

 

 

 

Socialism fails because power corrupts, and the entire power is in the hands of the state. ==Bad.

 

 

 

Communism fails because it isn't based on reality. People are inherently selfish and greedy, and it would never work to have everyone just LOVE each other. Someone would get ahead and then everyone would get mad, and then that person would need protection and the classless society would crumble.

 

 

 

Democracy fails because the herd, or the crowd, is ignorant and will always sacrifice what's best for everyone in order for themselves to be further ahead.

 

 

 

Dictatorships fail because it's one power in control=absolute corruption. Enough said.

 

 

 

A republic, like the US', is the best option because of it's many checks and balances. At least it can stem off the corruption a little bit although no system is perfect.

 

 

 

 

 

The only way to have a perfect government will happen when Jesus comes to Earth to establish his Kingdom where He alone is the dictator. Having God as supreme dictator doesn't sound so bad. In fact, I wouldn't have anyone else.

The only reason Swedens government works is because of the people... They are a small, efficient group of people that are especially tolerant.

 

 

 

Were the political system of Sweden transplanted into the US... I would predict disaster... The United States lives off of its corrupt politicians, without them the country would dissolve into anarchy...

well i believe a capitalist (to use the socio-economic use of the word) country is perfectly reasonable, most people you will find on the internet like government control of the economy. there are many socialists on here, but mostly a capitalist/socialist 50%/50% economy with free social rights.

 

 

 

having said that, the world works ok right now. keeps everyone content, not many really happy, but not many really mad. evenetually i think more and more countries will become capitalist welfare states, something like sweden. if the united states gets hillary clinton voted in for 2008, she is probably going to push for universal health care. china is everyday moving from being less socialist, they just freed their currency to be allowed to value itself by the market not to long ago. problem is they arent moving from being authoritarian thought, so that may cause problems.

china is everyday moving from being less socialist, they just freed their currency to be allowed to value itself by the market not to long ago.

 

 

 

China? Who knows what goes on behind the Red Curtain?

 

 

 

There are many theories that all that "Democrazation" is all a ruse(The voting, the free econmic zones...).

 

 

 

In the upcoming 30 years or so China will become the new world superpower while America gets reduced to a degenerate has-been. The problem is the fact that America has a substantial nuclear arsenal and it is most unlikely to go quietly (America has demonstrated over and over again how arrogant it is... However this time the problem is that China is also reknowned for its arrogancy...).

 

Whether this will result in naught more than political conflict or open war (which will inevitably lead to nuclear winter...) remains to be decided. IMO China appears to be playing a very carefully planned political game; Trying to foster diplomatic relations with the Democratic countries while still trying to retain its ties with its current allies.

Just what everyone needs, a theocracy.

To me, the best way for an economic system and goverment system is Capitalisim / Democracy (they aren't the same thing).

 

 

 

As far as the economic part goes, capitalisim is king. Why? Because it pays you for how good your ability level is. The problem with Comunisim, you see, is that a guy who would normaly work at Mc donalads and a guy who could work as a top doctor would get paid the same. That in it's self is not right, as some jobs are much more demanding, and are needed to be paid more.

 

 

 

Capitalism insures that based on your skill level and what job you have you can get paid varrying ammounts of money. For example, that guy at mc donalds might be making 6.05$ and hour, while the doctor is making upwards of 30$+ hour.

 

 

 

 

 

I do however have to agree, you hardly adress your points, and the ones you adress are weak at best.

To me, the best way for an economic system and goverment system is Capitalisim / Democracy (they aren't the same thing).

 

 

 

As far as the economic part goes, capitalisim is king. Why? Because it pays you for how good your ability level is. The problem with Comunisim, you see, is that a guy who would normaly work at Mc donalads and a guy who could work as a top doctor would get paid the same. That in it's self is not right, as some jobs are much more demanding, and are needed to be paid more.

 

 

 

Capitalism insures that based on your skill level and what job you have you can get paid varrying ammounts of money. For example, that guy at mc donalds might be making 6.05$ and hour, while the doctor is making upwards of 30$+ hour.

 

 

 

 

 

I do however have to agree, you hardly adress your points, and the ones you adress are weak at best.

 

 

 

Exactly. Communism/Socialism promotes mediocrity, whereas capitalism promotes competition and therefore excellence. Its fairly simple to see which will produce a more thriving economy.

 

 

 

Chris, you act as if capitalism and democracy are mutually exclusive. One is a broad political system (broad meaning there are several sub-classes of democracies) and one is an economic system. They work together...

Gosh, I wish I knew more about these interesting topics. I'm (almost) completely ignorant when it comes down to these things.

 

 

 

It's great that you guys know how everything works though.

This sounds like my Humanities class.

 

 

 

All that trash talk about which system's better for whatever country and society, I'm totaly hell bored of listening to those things. The best way is picking the most suited one that may represent the best in your opinion despite the fact they all have disadvantages and negatives consequences...

 

 

 

The worst choice you can ever make is not to have any structure and order in society {no rules, no orer and chaos will lead to Anarchy}. That's why every citizen has to vote the best of the system in order to lead a nation properly...

 

 

 

The other factors may and may not be related to this topic{such as economy, industry, mass media, censorship, military, religion, etc.}

anarchy doesnt mean chaos and disorder, as you may have been led to believe. anarchy literaly means "no ruler". it usually leads to chaos and disorder, so "no rules, no order and chaos will lead to anarchy" statement is backwards. no rules is anarchy, there is a possibilty it will lead to chaos, and a possibility that everyone would be ok with it. the possibility of it leading to chaos is much, much more likely.

Democracy fails because inevitably, as proven by the U.S

 

This makes absoloutly no sense. In no way has our goverment 'failed', which makes your entire point wrong. Plus. the U.S. is not strictly a Democracy, which is what I think Dusqi was saying. We are a branch of Democracy, a Republic. Just thought I would clear that up for you.

 

 

 

Goverment exists to exist... haha... Ahh geez, there are so many things wrong in this one sentence alone.

 

 

 

Am I just hopelessly cynical?

 

Yes.

 

At the moment, due to your vagueness, you don't warrant a detailed answer. You're merely smeg-stirring; Michael Moore style.

 

Hahaha true that.

I would agree that we all know what we're talking about, but the main thing wrong with all of this information is that it's circular.

 

 

 

Anarchy->Dictatorship->Democracy after unrest->Socialism->Dictatorship->Democracy

 

 

 

Anarchy is sometimes thrown in there somewhere but it always changes.

 

 

 

The reason America will decrease in world events is because it's following Europe in its socialism. Socialism, by its definition, leads to Communism which rewards laziness and punishes hard work. At the very least, it offers no impetus for hard work. China will eventually become mad at being so limited in their human rights and will become a democracy. Soon if you ask me. Then they'll become the world superpower.

 

 

 

Although I'd say that religion plays a major role in everything.

The reason America will decrease in world events is because it's following Europe in its socialism.

 

 

 

Over my dead body will America turn to socialism. :P

The reason America will decrease in world events is because it's following Europe in its socialism.

 

 

 

Over my dead body will America turn to socialism. :P

 

 

 

i used to think like that, now i think that ill just leave, a little less rash :P

Democracy and capitalism do work, as proven by the United States of America. No, it's not a perfect system, no one said it was but to my mind it's the best there is (that's capitalism and democracy in general btw). It takes a lot of work, and can work better under certain administrations but the general fundamentals laid down by the Constitution are in my mind, right.

 

 

 

Actually I see the United Nations as the way forward, democracy may require hard work but it generally is the most morally correct way.

I might as well answer all the people who responded to me directly in one topic.

 

 

 

1) This topic wasn't started as an argument (i argued with mercifull because he was being a jerk)

 

 

 

2) Yes, I'm aware that the U.S. is a variation of democracy, a republic. And it fails in conjunction with capitalism.

 

 

 

3) Again, this topic is a question. My statements about various systems failing I am willing to defend.

 

 

 

I guess my argument is that a comibned system of capitalism and democracy/republic fails because of capitalism's inevitable corruption of a deomcratic/republic society.

 

 

 

I'm guessing that the only way to truly have a successful system is through a benevolent tyranny that ruthlessly regulates a capitalist economic society.

 

 

 

Yes, Sweden does work. But Sweden is also a SMALL country. As Invidious says, imagine the hell in applying that to the U.S.

To me, the best way for an economic system and goverment system is Capitalisim / Democracy (they aren't the same thing).

 

 

 

As far as the economic part goes, capitalisim is king. Why? Because it pays you for how good your ability level is. The problem with Comunisim, you see, is that a guy who would normaly work at Mc donalads and a guy who could work as a top doctor would get paid the same. That in it's self is not right, as some jobs are much more demanding, and are needed to be paid more.

 

 

 

Capitalism insures that based on your skill level and what job you have you can get paid varrying ammounts of money. For example, that guy at mc donalds might be making 6.05$ and hour, while the doctor is making upwards of 30$+ hour.

 

 

 

 

 

I do however have to agree, you hardly adress your points, and the ones you adress are weak at best.

 

 

 

Exactly. Communism/Socialism promotes mediocrity, whereas capitalism promotes competition and therefore excellence. Its fairly simple to see which will produce a more thriving economy.

 

 

 

Chris, you act as if capitalism and democracy are mutually exclusive. One is a broad political system (broad meaning there are several sub-classes of democracies) and one is an economic system. They work together...

 

 

 

No, i'm not saying they're mutually exclusive. But i'm saying that in conjunction, they fail.