The 'Equal' Melee Combat System?

[Marco]

I'm talking about melee combat differences in Attack, Strength and Defense.

 

Are these three really equal?

 

Many PKers believe Strength has the upper hand in every combat situation between melee players with Attack 2nd in importance and Defense usually kept at either 5 (Steel armour) or 40 (Rune armour). They argue that the bigger the number you can hit, the more likely you are to kill someone 'Obviously all about power'. o.0

 

Is this really true though? If you look at what Runescape's Knowledge Base has to say about typical PKers;

Statistics

 

 

 

If an opponent is 'pure' in one area of combat, they will have higher offensive skills than defensive skills, thus appearing to have a low combat level. This is sometimes effective, however you will notice that a pure will take far more damage than a standard combat fighter but will deal out high damage relative to their combat level.

 

 

 

Just to clarify the three skills;

• 
   
  Attack - Having a higher attack level means you will hit the opponent more often.
   
  Strength - Strength ultimately determines the amount of damage you can deal with a hit to an opponent. Only determines how hard you can hit someone (nothing to do with woodcutting).
   
  Defense - Defence refers to the chance you have of being hit from attacks. Nothing to do with how much you can get hit by.
   
  

 

Theoretically if two players who were exatcly the same combat level using the same weapons and armour were to fight with the 1st player having typical PKer statistics of Att.50 Str.60 Def.40 and the 2nd player having balanced skills of Att.50 Str.50 Def.50 then they would die at exatcly the same time. Of course this is so unlikely to happen because hitting is random, the 1st player may hit 8s every time while the 2nd player may hit any number withing their range at no set frequency.

 

 

 

If this is true then why would people spend extra time leveling up say just Strength? All swings and roundabouts, while you be able to do more damage with a Strength pure a Defense pure will take less damage.

[agresser]

Playing a pure is just a different playstyle than playing a regular player with more balanced skills. And pures win out against regular players most of the time, so they must be doing something right.

[Gold_Tiger10]

"Pures" are the stupidest thing ever. They'll be lucky to kill someone within 10 levels of their own. Bring on a lvl 100 "pure"(not possilbe by the way), and I'll show him some barrows power! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAH :twisted:

[Imcleith]

Actually you need 3 attack or strength levels or 4 hit points or defense levels to level combat, so player number 2 could be like 51 attack, defense and strength (well, 1 level wont change anything)

 

Player number 2 wins, level 40 def pures are good at higher levels.

 

Anyway player number 1 teles :lol:

[lavirylime]

90% of the pures are made by dumb kids who get owned on their "main" therefore they resort to making a "pure" to kill other pures.

 

 

 

I love killing pures in wildy. I can get out double digits almost all the time. Sucks to be a low-def noob.

[yonman14]

The original point of pures was to have greater stats for others with the same combat level. After the release of RS2, the combat formula changed (magic doesn't affect combat if it's lower blah blah blah), and pures sorta died. As far as I know, pures nowadays are just because people thing they're better, althought they might not actually be better.

[Google90]

Ive been trying to post something like this but it was so confusing for me to explain.

 

 

 

Example

 

If you have 1 ATK 1 STR 99 DEF You're Just as likely to kill someone with 99 1 1 as he is to kill you. (You only deal one damage, but you don't get hit often)

 

 

 

1 99 1 You dont hit often but you hit hard..

 

 

 

 

 

Get my drift? :oops:

[runnybabbit]

I keep my skills even, never pure anything, always 70 70 70 or 80 80 80

[Marco]

Ive been trying to post something like this but it was so confusing for me to explain.

 

 

 

Example

 

If you have 1 ATK 1 STR 99 DEF You're Just as likely to kill someone with 99 1 1 as he is to kill you. (You only deal one damage, but you don't get hit often)

 

 

 

1 99 1 You dont hit often but you hit hard..

 

 

 

 

 

Get my drift? :oops:

 

 

 

Yeah good example, exactly what I mean. People just want to see big numbers now..

[Rock Hard]

One thing i've found with my pure is that Gear makes a big difference. When it was a lower level. It had a number of advantages:

 

 

 

A) Rune scimitar where most impures had Addy

 

B) High mage allowed for easier chasing and provided for hit's through full armour. (Basically eliminates and advantages defence gave the impures)

 

C) Robes are easier to carry. Longer running, and out 'chasing' opponants.

 

D) Although many impures could wear full addy/mith, they often didn't because it 'costs alot' to that level.

 

 

 

However, once it passed level 60 PKing impures became much harder. The combat system evened out for a number of reasons.

 

 

 

A) Everyone has Rune/Dragon weapons.

 

B) Most players feel confident wearing full rune into the wilderness.

 

C) Many players have the 'protect from mage' prayer. Taking away my mage advantage.

 

D) My 'catching/chasing' advantages are negated due to all the impures carrying tele runes.

 

 

 

Hence, I decided alot of the reasons pures 'own' at lower levels is the experience of the player. Pures are not afraid to bring their best equipment, and they generally know how to PK. As impures get more confident PKing, the 'Pure/impure imbalance' evens out in favour of the impures.

 

 

 

F2P PKing for my level 71 pure, can be quite a challange because mage stops being powerful at higher levels. In P2P it's different.

 

 

 

-Gid.

[dymed]

"Pures" are the stupidest thing ever. They'll be lucky to kill someone within 10 levels of their own. Bring on a lvl 100 "pure"(not possilbe by the way), and I'll show him some barrows power! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAH :twisted:

 

You lose.

 

 

 

[dymed]

Double post, sorry.

[pro28]

Look up sln 123, there is no way any normal 76-80 can beat him in a one on one fight.

[Craven_Image]

That combination of stats may of worked in RSC but it's not that effective in RS2 the best pures are ones with 99 range and magic and low melee stats - ie in the range of 70 attack, defence and strength. This allows them to have 80 - 90 combat whilst having 99 ranged and magic which gives them a good advantage over normal players.

[Gold_Tiger10]

"Pures" are the stupidest thing ever. They'll be lucky to kill someone within 10 levels of their own. Bring on a lvl 100 "pure"(not possilbe by the way), and I'll show him some barrows power! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAH :twisted:

 

You lose.

 

 

 

 

Where's your 1 def lvl and 99 str? You posted in the wrong topic mate... :roll:

[Imcleith]

"Pures" are the stupidest thing ever. They'll be lucky to kill someone within 10 levels of their own. Bring on a lvl 100 "pure"(not possilbe by the way), and I'll show him some barrows power! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAH :twisted:

 

You lose.

 

 

 

 

Where's your 1 def lvl and 99 str? You posted in the wrong topic mate... :roll:

 

You just met something like a Rsc pure, Mage and Pray used to affect your combat (well...pray still affects combat)

[n64jive]

"Pures" are the stupidest thing ever. They'll be lucky to kill someone within 10 levels of their own. Bring on a lvl 100 "pure"(not possilbe by the way), and I'll show him some barrows power! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAH :twisted:

 

You lose.

 

 

 

 

Where's your 1 def lvl and 99 str? You posted in the wrong topic mate... :roll:

 

 

 

...thats a dueler right there, and yes, he would own!!

 

 

 

and also, u might as well get 99 mage and range..because it wont affect ur combat lvl

[0r3o]

the point of a pure is to hit high enough just a few times in a row so that ur opponent cant eat fast enough to keep up with your high hits,

[xpandax]

FFS! I've played since june 2001 at the start of rs2 the old pure died because magic no longer affected ur combat level reletive to your stats. The term pure has since evolved into basically a person who has unusually good combat stats for his level. For instance i know a level 94 with 71 att 45 def 95 str 93 hp 99 ranged 95 magic and 52 pray. While his att may be low for his level when you factor in a super att pot and incredible reflexes this puts his att level up much higher. These stats will do VERY well against a normal level 94. Firstly, his hit points are MUCH higher than your average 94 allowing him to compensate alittle for the lack of defense. This whole build is built on the fact that he may not hit as much as someone with higher att but when he does hit it effectively makes his opponent eat since his attacks will be on the upwards of 36 thus allowing him more opportunitys (chance) to knock out his opponent without a prolonged fight. While he may lose in the long run to an impure for the short fight due to his higher hitting he is more likely to make the kill since he will be hitting so hi. I saw this in action more than once when the aformentioned player hit a combo similar to 36,30 ko. Theres not much a normal level 94 can do against that kind of damage output because his hp won't be as high.

 

 

 

Hope you enjoyed that explanation. And to the person who said pures are just kids who got owned on their mains ffs back that one up with logic... why would people pay 5 dollars a month and make thousands of pures if they didn't work? If pures didn't work then the community would have found that out in the 5+ years the game has been around... logic ftw.

[Marco]

That combination of stats may of worked in RSC but it's not that effective in RS2 the best pures are ones with 99 range and magic and low melee stats - ie in the range of 70 attack, defence and strength. This allows them to have 80 - 90 combat whilst having 99 ranged and magic which gives them a good advantage over normal players.

 

 

 

Mmm okay you got a point with the Magic and Range pures but I just want to concentrate on the Melee formula, maybe I'll figure out how they come into this properly (if possible) another time.

 

Guess I should rename the Topic to suit what I'm on about..

 

 

 

Hence, I decided alot of the reasons pures 'own' at lower levels is the experience of the player. Pures are not afraid to bring their best equipment, and they generally know how to PK.

 

 

 

Uh huh, if Pures are working at all at low levels then it's because typicaly a Pure Pker will not be the player's first account, so they would already have experiance in how the game works.

 

 

 

Actually you need 3 attack or strength levels or 4 hit points or defense levels to level combat, so player number 2 could be like 51 attack..

 

 

 

I wondered about that actually, if the Melee Combat is equal then why isn't is equal to level up? But... then I checked the Combat Calculator and it is actually equal so forget that =p

[Xaga]

Personally, I find that the belief of strength pures results from the availability of only strength potions in f2p and originally in RSC. In this way someone with 1 atk, 99 str, 1 def would get the bonus of the str potion as 9 str levels (it is 10% right?), effectively about 3 combat levels higher. 99 atk, 1 str, 1 def and 1 atk, 1 str, 99 def would both get no bonus (yes, extreme, but it makes the point). Additionally this was initially created in the 3 hit system. The best way to kill anyone was to kill them in 3 hits. Thus high damage was essential. Now, I believe as you do that a more balanced pker will do better. But old values die hard.

 

 

 

edited for a typo.

[C4mp3]

OK , about pures ... DID YOU READ Exp3nsives lil' book for F2P pures ? it makes real good sense ... read it , and learn all there is about pures ...

[CaptainLando]

Personally, I find that the belief of strength pures results from the availability of only strength potions in f2p and originally in RSC. In this way someone with 1 atk, 99 str, 1 def would get the bonus of the str potion as 9 str levels (it is 10% right?), effectively about 3 combat levels higher. 99 atk, 1 str, 1 def and 1 atk, 1 str, 99 def would both get no bonus (yes, extreme, but it makes the point). Additionally this was initially created in the 3 hit system. The best way to kill anyone was to kill them in 3 hits. Thus high damage was essential. Now, I believe as you do that a more balanced pker will do better. But old values die hard.

 

 

 

edited for a typo.

 

 

 

3 hit system was the reason for high str

 

 

 

 

 

before rs2 i had one of the first "prayer beasts" around.. we'd run around with low def; high att, but mostly high high str and high ranged (didnt affect combat) in monk robes with r2hs and ruby ammys, we didnt usually get a '3 hit' per say, but what we would do is chase the other person after they retreated from the 3 hits and begin another 3 hit session, they eat while they run, of course, and if we could catch them before they ate enough, we could KO them in atleast 3 hits; after rs2 came out, all was lost ;p i still have my pure "laneispure" but i have lost his pass!! oh well.