America - benign or a menance?

[Faux]

No, just makes it hypocritical.

[Anesthesia]

How? Hypocrisy is:

 

 

 

"The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness"

 

 

 

"an expression of agreement that is not supported by real conviction"

 

 

 

"the practice of claiming to have higher standards or beliefs than is the case"

 

 

 

Tell me, how do any of these apply to someone who claims to dislike america when they have not directly wronged them? There is no global doctrine which states that you have to like how everyone else acts.

 

 

 

Had I said "I hate america because the people there judge others without having been wronged by them" THAT would have been hypocritical.

[____]

I'm just curious, to the people bashing America, what country do you live in and what has it done so much, that the US is a barbaric nation?

Made Australian a terrorist target when most of the population didn't want anything to do with the USA and it's running around the world chasing "bad guys" :uhh: That good enough? Might not be barbaric, as you say, but that's bad enough for me to dislike the American Government more than the Australian one.

[apinagez]

I'm just curious, to the people bashing America, what country do you live in and what has it done so much, that the US is a barbaric nation?

 

 

 

Supporting and supplying resources for the stabilishment of right wing military dictatorship in Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Suriname, Uruguay and Venezuela?

[hohto]

I'm just curious, to the people bashing America, what country do you live in and what has it done so much, that the US is a barbaric nation?

 

 

 

Within last 50 years there's been 2 countries that have really tried to dominate the whole world; USA and the Soviet Union. Both have done wrong things and one of those doesn't even exist anymore. I personally hate this "dominating role" because to gain something, you gotta take it from somewhere. There's a lot of independed countries for a reason; we are proud to be of what we are and don't want to become one huge mass. I rather pay 40% taxes, waste 9 months at army (2 weeks served atm ;) ) and speak a language which is understood by roughly 5.5 million people (in comparison: there's over 7million people living in London) than be a yankee/russian/whatever.

 

 

 

The ways how USA has tried to dominate the world aren't really too clean.

 

For some reason you remind me of nazi-Germany. They wanted "Lebensraum" for their "ÃÆÃâÃâübermensch" folk, you want resourches for your own goods. Within 50 years, you've started more wars than any other country. You're the only country that has used nuclear weapons (ok, that doesn't fit to my 50-year range) against other country, you've tried to feed people with your propaganda. Aren't those reasons good enough to hate your policy?

 

 

 

Look at the time of the cold war for example. Do you really belive you fought at places like Vietnam or Korea just because you wanted to stop communism? I tell you that for sure your leaders didn't fight for ideology, they fought for power. How many people had to die because of that greediness? It's true that your leaders wanted to get rid of communism. However, it wasn't because your leaders thought that your ideology was so supreme. It was because communism&the Soviet Union was your biggest obstacle on your way to the world domination. Ok, the Soviet Union was also guilty, but I don't feel like writing ten thousands words describing its crimes, so I just keep talking about USA.

 

 

 

I find it funny how you're able to kill tens of thousands civilians in the name of democracy. You seem to accept many non-democractic things if the country accepts your international policy. Look at Israel or Saudi Arabia for example. They are really far from democracy, yet you support them. At Israel you are a 2nd class citizen if you aren't a jew. Look at their Knesset for example; arab/palestinian minority has ~10 places there (120 in total) and percentually there's a lot more arabs than that. What about marriage laws? The way water resources are shared? Is that democracy? In my eyes it isn't. Yet you've given them $84,854,827,200 aid (http://www.washington-report.org/html/u ... israel.htm) in under 60 years. Btw why can't you accept Hamas? After all they got power by elections. Aren't they enough pro-american?

 

 

 

It's pretty ironic, but Saddam would probably have killed less civilians in few years than you've killed. Over 40,000 civilians (http://www.iraqbodycount.net/) is pretty much when you think how long you've been at Iraq. When you attacked them, you had hard evidence of weapons of mass destruction. After 40,000 civilian victims you haven't found any. How many more innocent people need to die before you find them? 1,000? 10,000? 100,000? Btw it's funny how you're able to kill that many civilians to find those weapons, yet you (and your mate Israel) got a lot of them.

 

 

 

If you don't want to hear anti-american things, then don't give us a reason to talk about it. Currently your policy just begs for all this anti-american stuff. Every war you start just grows a new generation of anti-american (and possible terrorists) people.

 

 

 

Btw here's a list of the wars you've started since 1890. It's pretty rough text, but probably it shows you one reason why your nation isn't too liked http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossma ... tions.html

 

 

 

I got nothing against a normal yankee. I got many american online-friends, one of my room mates at army is half american (got both Finland's and America's passports) and many good things come from America. Yet I hate it how your country acts.

[indy500fan]

just like to point out two things.

 

 

 

first, hating the american government isnt a problem. it does a lot of stupid stuff. dont hate the citizens though (even though the citizens are supposed to be the government). so far its been anti-american policy and government, which is fine.

 

 

 

second thing is something that i thought through about the war in iraq.

 

 

 

republicans say it is about freeing the people, and stopping terrorism. that sticks to their platform, and the rednecks will continue voting for them. the democrats say it is for oil, and its the republicans fault. that sticks to their platform, and all the liberals are happy.

 

 

 

but the war isnt about spreading democracy or for oil. iraq barely has a democracy, and gas is now $3.00 a gallon. what it really is about is Halliburton Corporation. when the us declared war after 9/11, the government decided that we needed supplies quickly and the only way would be to give a no-bid contract to a company. [bleep] cheney, who owns a lot of halliburton stock, probably was one of the main reasons halli got it. after they got the no-bid contract, they got to charge what ever they want for the products. they charged $45 per twelve pack of coke. normally they cost $4.50, but if you shop around you can easily get them at $3.00.

 

 

 

so halliburton charges 10 times the normal price on everything, so the stock holders are happy (many politicians hold halliburton stock). the republicans are still getting voted for and are making money, the democrats are still getting voted for and making money, the rednecks feel their government is freeing people and protecting them from terrorism, the liberals have tons of stuff to blame on republicans, so pretty much everyone is happy.

 

 

 

except for of course families of the soldiers who are fighting so some politician can get richer.

 

 

 

and except for all the innocent iraqis who get killed and their families.

 

 

 

and except for people like me who thinks about this all the time and feels absolutely helpless because i cant do anything about it.

[Faux]

I think people didn't get what my question was. I'm asking what your contry did to the world that is so awesome compared to the US.

 

 

 

It's funny how much hate I received when I'm not even American :)

[Tigra00]

I'd like to see some sources, Indy. I'm not calling you a liar, infact, I'd be inclined to believe everything you said...I'm just interested in reading about it for myself. I've never heard of any of that...Sounds rediculously American to me.

[indy500fan]

I'd like to see some sources, Indy. I'm not calling you a liar, infact, I'd be inclined to believe everything you said...I'm just interested in reading about it for myself. I've never heard of any of that...Sounds rediculously American to me.

 

 

 

well, thats all pretty much just my opinion on the matter. the only things i can really source is that halliburton did have a no bid contract, and the price they charged. ive pretty much gathered all that information from fark, which i wont link to because some bad stuff on there. the people on there arent any different than the people on here though, so ill see if i can find more credible sources.

 

 

 

EDIT: found three good websites that i think tackle pretty much everything.

 

 

 

TomPaine.com says:

 

As was the case with the oil contracts, Halliburton remains eligible to bid for the new logistics contracts in Iraq, despite a horrendous record of dubious cost overruns, waste, employees who took kickbacks, the torching of $85,000 trucks that required only minor repairs, $45 cases of soda, $100 per bag of laundry, and evidence that Halliburton served contaminated water to the troops.

 

 

 

CorpWatch.org - main page for their halliburton section. a little info and then links to other pages, of which Cheney's Halliburton Options Up 3,281% Last Year article is pretty interesting.

 

 

 

then there is Halliburton Watch which has a picture i found funny on their front page (its actually not funny, its sad because its true.):

 

[Oy_the_Great]

I think people didn't get what my question was. I'm asking what your contry did to the world that is so awesome compared to the US.

 

 

 

It's funny how much hate I received when I'm not even American :)

 

 

 

If you believe the US are actually doing something good, fine by me. My country doesn't wage war with countries we wrongfully *suspect* of having dangerous weapons. My country doesn't think it has God on its side. And my country also isn't completely ruled by companies.

 

 

 

Just by not doing that, my country has done more good than the US have in the last 50 years.

[icantcmyeye]

Quite frankly, i love america. I believe america is the greatest nation in the world.

 

 

 

However, i also believe that america has begun a spiral into a corrupt cestpool of... corruptness?

 

 

 

Ever since WWII america has been uncontested by the rest of the world. no sane nation would attack us for fear of our retaliation. This power has gone to our heads, making us cocky, pompus, and quite ignorant.

 

 

 

I live right across the river from washington D.C.. When the planes hit the pentagon i felt the crash. My dad is friends with the aides of many politicians.

 

 

 

We have become completely unbalanced. our leaders have gone insane... just look at cheney...

 

 

The man looks like he's about to bite somebody's head off... or shoot them in the face :P

 

 

 

But in all seriousness, it is not the republicans i disagree with, nor the democrats, both are good parties when they balance eachother. Both have great ideas on how to run the country, but do not know everything. C-SPAN has become unbearable, it is now no more than the two parties screaming at eachother about what idiots they are. for america to return to the great nation i know it can be everyone has to start cooperating again and listen to other peoples ideas... otherwise i don't see us as having much of a future.

[hohto]

I think people didn't get what my question was. I'm asking what your contry did to the world that is so awesome compared to the

 

 

 

1. My country has started a total of 1 war. You can google info for "Lapland War" to get some more info. A bit different thing than your trips to Iraq/Vietnam/Korea/Afghanistan/etc?

 

 

 

2. During the cold war we didn't store weapons and force other side to do that. We were unallied which was was pretty much a miracle if you look at our eastern boarder. We also actively tried to spread this unalliance thing, google for OSCE or look at nuclear weapon free fennoscandia.

 

 

 

3. We are the only country that had a real war with the Soviet Union in WW2 and didn't get conquered&occupied. Btw there was roughly 55 times more soviets than finns.

 

 

 

4. We were the first country in the whole world where women were allowed to vote and they were totally equal to men. Same time when we got that, blacks still had really bad circumstances in America.

 

 

 

5. Our social help system is totally superior when compared to America's. With this help system, basically everyone can get an ok house, enough money for clothes&food and free health care. You can compare the worst parts of Helsinki to the worst parts of any big American city. I tell you there's a huge difference.

 

 

 

6. Our schooling system is one of the best ones in the whole world. This can be seen at the Pisa test for example:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_ ... Assessment

 

Look how well Finland has done there. Where's America? Oh I forgot they still talk wether to teach evolution theory or not.

 

 

 

7. Our health care is totally different to yours. You must to have expensive insurances in order to get a good service. Here you can just walk to the hospital (or get a free ride with an ambulance :P ), tell them what's wrong and get a good service. No matter what's your problem or who/what caused it.

 

 

 

8. We are the least corrupted country in the whole world. For example usa was 16th least corrupted in 2002. There's a pretty big difference.

 

 

 

9. In technology we're doing pretty well. Irc was created by a finn. Linux was created by a finn. Nokia cell phones are created by finns. In broadband connections we had 5th most of them in the whole world in 2003. This is unbelievable as there's only 5 million finns.

 

 

 

10. Our lifestyle doesn't load nature as much as America's for example. Helsinki is one of the cleanest capitals in Europe, we got really strict pollution laws. Over 100,000 Americans visit Finland each year. Many of them are drawn to Finland because of its beautiful and clean nature.

 

 

 

In the end, some pictures.

 

 

 

 

Northern lights, one reason why tourists come to Finland. Another reason is kaamos or nightless night.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Our country is described to be the land of thousand lakes. It's partically true, there's 187888 lakes in Finland.

[Tigra00]

Wow, Finland looks...

 

 

 

Wait...

 

 

 

Exactly like Minnesota. #-o

 

 

 

I guess I'll check off Finland as "Must see places!" on my list. :P

[Oy_the_Great]

Wow, Finland looks...

 

 

 

Wait...

 

 

 

Exactly like Minnesota. #-o

 

 

 

I guess I'll check off Finland as "Must see places!" on my list. :P

 

 

 

Trust me, Finland is so much more than Minnesota. I've been to both, and Finland's culture alone makes it worth visiting it. And the landscapes of the Land of a Thousand Lakes... :3>

 

Naah, Minnesota is very beautiful, just like at least 30 other US states. But I don't really see the link with Finland. You can just as well say that New York is exactely the same as Paris then. Makes no sense :)

[apinagez]

Hohto, I want to be your neighbor. :

 

 

 

icantcmyeye: Your signature bothers me, I don't think it's respecting the forum rules either.

[Faux]

quote

 

 

 

Again, I live in Canada, not the US :P

[apinagez]

quote

 

 

 

Again, I live in Canada, not the US :P

 

 

 

But again, you asked what the other countries did of good to the world the US didn't do. So he replyed to that, not to the fact you are canadian.

[Faux]

But again, you asked what the other countries did of good to the world the US didn't do. So he replyed to that, not to the fact you are canadian.

 

 

 

Hey, before you reply to me, read his post and try to comprehend what I said relating to his post. I have nothing against what he said. I'm just saying that he thinks I am American, which I'm not.

[apinagez]

I have nothing against what he said.

 

 

 

Ok. Then there's no reason for you to ask us all "I'm just curious, to the people bashing America, what country do you live in and what has it done so much, that the US is a barbaric nation?.

[Faux]

Ok. Then there's no reason for you to ask us all "I'm just curious, to the people bashing America, what country do you live in and what has it done so much, that the US is a barbaric nation?.

 

 

 

:uhh:

[apinagez]

So we answered your question.

 

Then you said "I'm canadian". We don't care if you are canadian or not, and the fact you are canadian doesn't make our posts invalid. It isn't enough of a reply saying you're canadian, since you are defending the US here, by saying other countries have never done anything better than the US. We have proved your point wrong then you say you're canadian?

[Faux]

OMG :lol: You're still so pissy about me aren't you?

 

 

 

Why are you blowing this out of proportion? I asked a question, he answered, I say ok. I'm just telling him I'm not an American because he claims that I am. I just wanted to set him straight that I am not American. Heck, I agree that Finland IS a better country than the US.

 

 

 

I didn't have a point when I asked a question. Hence, I was just curious.

 

 

 

And don't say 'we' since it was only hohto that actually answered properly :wink:

[icantcmyeye]

apinagez, people are not saying that america is a barbaric nation. we have just become ignorant and full of ourselves to the point where we do not care about anyone besides ourselves.

 

 

 

Also, i checked the forum rules, there is nothing wrong with my sig picture

[apinagez]

Also, i checked the forum rules, there is nothing wrong with my sig picture

 

 

 

Nothing wrong with the current one, yeah.

[icantcmyeye]

My point is clear and simple... America has had such prosperity in the past 50 years that we have alienated ourselves from the rest of the worlds problems and even our own problems. we have locked ourselves away in our climate controlled houses and cars while being forced fed opinion by the t.v. and internet. The recent rise in technology allows one person to do the thinking for an entire reigon leading to a dangerous shift in our ballance of power. Though america was built on a citizen favoring democracy, the central government is slowly snatching our power from under our noses. to this i blame the bipartisanship that rules our congress. the democrats and republicans are too busy fighting with eachother to pay attention to their work while bills like the U.S. Patriot Act sneak through completely undetected and uncontested, Bills that sap the life from our now fragile democracy.