America - benign or a menance?

[Death_By_Pod]

 

Lol, let's talk. If you don't bnelieve that life begins at conception, when DOES life begin? The "cell" as you call it is rapidly growing inside the mother's womb. For all purposes, it is alive.

 

 

 

I'm eager to hear what you say.

 

 

 

Embryonic stem cells are generally taken from a Blastocyst not foetuses. Basically it is a collection of 50-150 odd cells that are yet to be implanted into the lining of the uterus; before implantation you can't even test for pregnancy. If you want to simplify it, itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s just a fertilised ovum.

 

 

 

When life begins, when it depends on who wants to know and what criteria they use to consider life. I would say about the 3rd trimester since thatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s when a foetus becomes self-aware, before which they are oblivious to their own existence; for other people that might be different, however thatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s my take on it.

[FuBai]

 

2. According to the Bible, God GAVE us the plants and animals for our enjoyment. If we want to eat them, then we can go ahead and eat them.

 

 

 

 

Firstly there are two interpretations of the word kabas which is the Hebrew word used in Genisis 1:26 (In NIV it is dominion) to describe the terms in which Man was to have the Earth and the animals and plants therof.

 

 

 

1)The first possible meaning actualy means to rule and serve - in the same way a king was meant to rule his people and serve thier needs. So man was meant to rule the Earth, and yet maintain it - Noah saves the animals on God's command, maintaining the Earth. Man is meant to be the servant of creation, and to subdue it - parrallels with Gen. 2:5 and 2:15 - to "till and keep the land". This interpretation is often used by vegetarians - the idea being reinforced by the fact that Adam and Eve only ate plants and vegetables - infact no one ate meat until after the flood (Gen. 9:3).

 

 

 

2)The second meaning is to rape or enslave or use for humanities own perposes. This is to be found from the use of kabas in Neh. 5:5, Est. 7:8 and Josh. 18:1.

 

 

 

As you can see, there are two different interpretations of how we should treat the enviroment. Both are ambiguous - to what extent can we abuse it for the second? And does serve and rule in a kingly manner mean we can eat them so long as we dont destroy the whole species?

 

 

 

So, the interpretation is not so easy to state as you did. Moreover, I would prefer us to stick to secular arguments. And also STICK TO THE SUBJECT.

[Tetsuya]

I especially don't like this country's foreign policy. Especially since the damn neocons took over. This whole "world police" thing has to go. It'll just end up causing more trouble than it's stopping.

 

 

 

And as for Bush and the stem cell veto. Bush is standing in the way of science again, no surprise there. And just for his crappy interpretation of morals. Researching stem cells isn't hurting anybody. And in the end it would save many lives. But Dubya doesn't give a damn. As long as his clueless extremist religious right buddies are pleased.

[Nadril]

I'm just going to keep this short here, but I want to clarify something.

 

 

 

@ Piano : You know that they aren't just running around killing fetus's to do this research, right? They are simply using ones that have been aborted already. So, acording to your 'logic', this simply helps save others lives. Those who 'die' in the process (not going to get too far into this abortion debate here) would have been aborted either way, stem cell research or not.

 

 

 

 

 

So technicly it's just a fact on can we use them or not. Personaly I think we should, because hell, saving lives (and potential millions of other lives through research) is much better than just throwing away the fetus.

[Anesthesia]

2. According to the Bible, God GAVE us the plants and animals for our enjoyment. If we want to eat them, then we can go ahead and eat them.

 

 

 

Hahaha, that's a bit narcissistic now isn't it?

 

 

 

That's a very stupid comment. Of course only your religious teachings are right and the Buddhist Pancasila should be thrown out the window. People are obviously stupid for believing such frippery.

[caligula101]

Great. So what are you supposed to do when Al Qaeda kills thousands of people? Slap them on the hand? Send them an angry letter? Seriously. The reason why we defied the UN was because people like the French (cheese-eating surrender monkeys, to quote Groundskeeper Willie) had a say in what was going on. Well, plenty of people supported us, as there are plenty of other countries in Iraq.

 

 

 

 

Firstly you should learn to use the quote button correctly. Secondly we're talking about the Iraq war, now as far as I know Iraq didn't bomb the twin towers. They didn't have weapons of mass destruction either.You defied the UN because they were right, there was no need to go to war, but Americans can never be wrong... Thirdly don't be racist to people that are different to you. I could call you a straw chomping hillbilly named Cleetus but i'm not going to as that would be sterotyping you as a Bush follower.

[unknownmasterofnothing]

According to the bible, god wanted us to use embryonic cells to help people in need.

[speedofsound]

Great. So what are you supposed to do when Al Qaeda kills thousands of people? Slap them on the hand? Send them an angry letter? Seriously. The reason why we defied the UN was because people like the French (cheese-eating surrender monkeys, to quote Groundskeeper Willie) had a say in what was going on. Well, plenty of people supported us, as there are plenty of other countries in Iraq.

 

 

 

 

Firstly you should learn to use the quote button correctly. Secondly we're talking about the Iraq war, now as far as I know Iraq didn't bomb the twin towers. They didn't have weapons of mass destruction either.You defied the UN because they were right, there was no need to go to war, but Americans can never be wrong... Thirdly don't be racist to people that are different to you. I could call you a straw chomping hillbilly named Cleetus but i'm not going to as that would be sterotyping you as a Bush follower.

 

 

 

 

 

I am not a republican nor will I ever will be. Now that I established that I can get on with what I want to say. Bush wanted to finish what his farther started he wanted to get rid of saddam, saddam was a tryant and a dictator and it is better for the iraqi people to be without him. Prior to this you couldn't go outside without nearly stepping upon a landmine, now I'm not saying its not like that now, but its getting better. Fidel Castro is dictator and you don't see us going to war with them for no reason. Thats because war always has a reason and our reason was to take out one of the worst dictators in the world. Weather were gonna go to war with cuba next, I don't know, but I do know that I'm tired of people making opinions about the war. You'll never know the whole story so stay flexible instead of making a fool of yourself.

[caligula101]

Ok shutup kid. The reason we don't go to war with Cuba is because they have no black gold a.k.a oil. Prior to the war Bush's main reason for going to war with Iraq was that they had weapons of mass destruction. When this was proved inconclusive he fell back on the line "But he was evil", like that gives the right for him to kill thousands of innocent Iraqi's. Shutup and get your facts straight before you flame someone.

[pianofrieak2]

 

Lol, let's talk. If you don't bnelieve that life begins at conception, when DOES life begin? The "cell" as you call it is rapidly growing inside the mother's womb. For all purposes, it is alive.

 

 

 

I'm eager to hear what you say.

 

 

 

Embryonic stem cells are generally taken from a Blastocyst not foetuses. Basically it is a collection of 50-150 odd cells that are yet to be implanted into the lining of the uterus; before implantation you can't even test for pregnancy. If you want to simplify it, itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s just a fertilised ovum.

 

 

 

When life begins, when it depends on who wants to know and what criteria they use to consider life. I would say about the 3rd trimester since thatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s when a foetus becomes self-aware, before which they are oblivious to their own existence; for other people that might be different, however thatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s my take on it.

 

 

 

A "fertilized ovum" has 4 basic differences between a toddler.

 

 

 

1. Size

 

2. Level of Development (in your case, self-awareness)

 

3. Environment

 

4. Degree of Dependency

 

 

 

Do you agree with these 4?

 

 

 

 

 

unknownmasterofnothing: Prove it to me please

 

 

 

Anesthesia: As a Christian, I am allowed to take a more liberal view of religions. For instance, as C.S. Lewis pointed out, even though Christianity is the only true religion, (as in a math problem) other religions are much closer to the truth than others. Some bad answers are much closer to being right than others. If you're an atheist (which you are) you must agree that all religions are completely wrong and have no truth whatsoever (no after-life, no salvation, no heaven, no hell). Now who's narcissistic.

 

 

 

Nadril: They don't just use aborted fetuses. They may use some, but

 

aborted fetuses have to be kept frozen extremely quickly otherwise the blastocysts become useless. So that comment may be true, but using the word "only" is incomplete.

 

 

 

Fubai: We are to care for the Earth as caretakers. I think your first description is most accurate, just because God made the Earth and plants and animals and doesn't want to see them wasted. It's His creation after all. Do we have a right to abuse it just because we feel like it? No. But can we use it for our enjoyment? Yes. I see your point about the ambiguity, but, really, in a perfect environment like Adam and Eve, if one is perfect, one will only use what one needs and will tend to the plants and animals as one's primary caretaker. That's how it's supposed to be run.

[Faux]

Ok shutup kid. The reason we don't go to war with Cuba is because they have no black gold a.k.a oil. Prior to the war Bush's main reason for going to war with Iraq was that they had weapons of mass destruction. When this was proved inconclusive he fell back on the line "But he was evil", like that gives the right for him to kill thousands of innocent Iraqi's. Shutup and get your facts straight before you flame someone.

 

 

 

Well, you're a moron. The US gets the majority of its oil from countries like Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia. If the US was to invade a country for oil, why wasn't it Canada or Mexico? We're right by the country's border.

[Anesthesia]

If you're an atheist (which you are) you must agree that all religions are completely wrong and have no truth whatsoever (no after-life, no salvation, no heaven, no hell).

 

 

 

What a load of crap. I agree with many of the Buddhist teachings, as an atheist ("One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods" ) I just don't believe in a god. Technically speaking I could be an atheist AND a Buddhist.

 

 

 

Now who's narcissistic.

 

 

 

You, as usual. You're talking as the guy who lives in a world created for him, populated with animals and plants for him and with women created for him (who he can't touch until his silver wedding anniversary of course).

[Thaulsis]

Ok shutup kid. The reason we don't go to war with Cuba is because they have no black gold a.k.a oil. Prior to the war Bush's main reason for going to war with Iraq was that they had weapons of mass destruction. When this was proved inconclusive he fell back on the line "But he was evil", like that gives the right for him to kill thousands of innocent Iraqi's. Shutup and get your facts straight before you flame someone.

 

 

 

Well, you're a moron. The US gets the majority of its oil from countries like Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia. If the US was to invade a country for oil, why wasn't it Canada or Mexico? We're right by the country's border.

 

 

 

Pardon me for butting in (and sliding off-topic slightly), but while most of the imports of Oil does come from these nations, that doesn't mean their reserves are all larger then Iraqs. Saudi Arabia easily has the largest reserve (~260 billion barrels). Canada would come next (~175 billion barrels) but most of its Oil is in the Alberta Oil Sands, which is more costly to extract and refine. Iran is third (~125), Iraq is next (~115), and then Kuwait (~100). Venezuela is around 7th at ~75 billion barrels. Mexico is more unknown, most people peg it between 15-25 billion barrels but I believe the Mexican government thinks its closer to 100.

 

 

 

*Numbers are more then likely off by a few billion barrels but the order of countries should still be the same.

 

 

 

On a side note, if I personally wanted Oil, I would invade Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Iran or Iraq. Canada has the hassle of the Oil in the sand, Mexico should have a small reserve.

 

 

 

 

 

---

 

 

 

Back on-topic. Is America a menace? Yes, but that isn't always a bad thing.

[FuBai]

If you're an atheist (which you are) you must agree that all religions are completely wrong and have no truth whatsoever (no after-life, no salvation, no heaven, no hell).

 

 

 

What a load of crap. I agree with many of the Buddhist teachings, as an atheist ("One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods" ) I just don't believe in a god. Technically speaking I could be an atheist AND a Buddhist.

 

 

 

Now who's narcissistic.

 

 

 

You, as usual. You're talking as the guy who lives in a world created for him, populated with animals and plants for him and with women created for him (who he can't touch until his silver wedding anniversary of course).

 

 

 

If you are a budhist, you are an atheist. You can't not be if you follow most of the sutras - all of which deny any particular God exists.

[FuBai]

Ok shutup kid. The reason we don't go to war with Cuba is because they have no black gold a.k.a oil. Prior to the war Bush's main reason for going to war with Iraq was that they had weapons of mass destruction. When this was proved inconclusive he fell back on the line "But he was evil", like that gives the right for him to kill thousands of innocent Iraqi's. Shutup and get your facts straight before you flame someone.

 

 

 

Well, you're a moron. The US gets the majority of its oil from countries like Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia. If the US was to invade a country for oil, why wasn't it Canada or Mexico? We're right by the country's border.

 

 

 

Pardon me for butting in (and sliding off-topic slightly), but while most of the imports of Oil does come from these nations, that doesn't mean their reserves are all larger then Iraqs. Saudi Arabia easily has the largest reserve (~260 billion barrels). Canada would come next (~175 billion barrels) but most of its Oil is in the Alberta Oil Sands, which is more costly to extract and refine. Iran is third (~125), Iraq is next (~115), and then Kuwait (~100). Venezuela is around 7th at ~75 billion barrels. Mexico is more unknown, most people peg it between 15-25 billion barrels but I believe the Mexican government thinks its closer to 100.

 

 

 

*Numbers are more then likely off by a few billion barrels but the order of countries should still be the same.

 

 

 

On a side note, if I personally wanted Oil, I would invade Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Iran or Iraq. Canada has the hassle of the Oil in the sand, Mexico should have a small reserve.

 

 

 

 

 

---

 

 

 

Back on-topic. Is America a menace? Yes, but that isn't always a bad thing.

 

 

 

Out of all of those, Iraq is the easiest target. You can't invade Canada, mexico, Saudi Arabia or Venezuela as you have no justifcation to do so, so will be slated by the rest of the world (Saudi has helped the USA often). Even American can't afford everyone to place sanctions on them. Iran has or will soon have Neuclear weapons, so going to war with them is bloody stupid unless you can dissable them first. Iraq had no WMD's or Neuclear weaps, had a dictatorial govt and muchos oilos. Thus, if you want oil, this is the best one to invade.

[Kashi]

When religion and politics ride in the same cart, nothing can stand in their way. They'll charge headlong, destroying anything in their path. But oftentimes, you cannot see the precipice until it is too late.

 

 

 

Or something to that effect.

[Quer_Skulll]

Ok shutup kid. The reason we don't go to war with Cuba is because they have no black gold a.k.a oil. Prior to the war Bush's main reason for going to war with Iraq was that they had weapons of mass destruction. When this was proved inconclusive he fell back on the line "But he was evil", like that gives the right for him to kill thousands of innocent Iraqi's. Shutup and get your facts straight before you flame someone.

 

 

 

no... what really happend was: during the cold war russia armed Cuba to put some more heat on america.

 

America did not attack Cuba because it was an ally of russia, if they attacked Cuba there would have been war on a massive scale, it would have been World War 3.

 

 

 

Omegaham, how is it sad to learn about the entire world or did i misinterpet that? and i did not accuse anyone of being stupid i just noted that the lack of knowledge is irritating.

 

it maybe so that america attacks any country that america believe is a threat but that doesnt exactly make the rest of the world feel safe which is why people view it as a menace.

[Anesthesia]

If you are a budhist, you are an atheist. You can't not be if you follow most of the sutras - all of which deny any particular God exists.

 

 

 

Indeed, but it is possible to be an atheist and not a buddhist. And that's what I am.

[Death_By_Pod]

 

A "fertilized ovum" has 4 basic differences between a toddler.

 

 

 

1. Size

 

2. Level of Development (in your case, self-awareness)

 

3. Environment

 

4. Degree of Dependency

 

 

 

Do you agree with these 4?

 

 

 

 

It doesn't really matter what you think the differences are. A blastocyst is taken before implantation in the uterus lining, the womanÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s body at this stage doesn't even know it's pregnant. When the blastocyst is implanted the chemical hCG is released (in turn keeps Progesterone levels high) allowing the body to maintain a healthy, suitable environment for the foetus to develop (actually pregnancy tests test for the presence of hCG). Before implantation, the body would continue its regular menstruation cycle regardless that a blastocyst exists or not.

 

 

 

The presence of a blastocyst does not guarantee pregnancy as blastocysts are prone to not implanting into the uterus lining, so would it be ethical to fish out blastocysts of failed implantations? Come off it, itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s ridiculous to call a blastocyst life before it even reaches the point to start forming into a foetus.

[Bubsa]

"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between."

[speedofsound]

Ok shutup kid. The reason we don't go to war with Cuba is because they have no black gold a.k.a oil. Prior to the war Bush's main reason for going to war with Iraq was that they had weapons of mass destruction. When this was proved inconclusive he fell back on the line "But he was evil", like that gives the right for him to kill thousands of innocent Iraqi's. Shutup and get your facts straight before you flame someone.

 

 

 

For the record if anyone is wondering, I am not a kid -.- . You should consider getting your facts strait befor you flame someone. I wasn't flaming you I was just responding to you. Where do you get off saying that we killed thousands of inncocent Iraqis? Prove to me we've killed inncocents. Your obviousley some racist git who isn't open to change and only wants to believe America is some sort of menace. So in the name of keeping things nice around here please "Shut up kid" and leave this topic.

[Kryptic]

"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between."

 

 

 

Ahem! Bubsa knows all things right. Who is that quoted by?

[apinagez]

"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between."

 

 

 

Ahem! Bubsa knows all things right. Who is that quoted by?

 

 

 

Oscar Wilde.

 

What a great quote.

[Faux]

I'm just curious, to the people bashing America, what country do you live in and what has it done so much, that the US is a barbaric nation?

[Anesthesia]

Someone doesn't have to have wronged you for you to dislike them.