Max Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 well, id have to say yes all because i believe in jesus christ as my lord and savory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadyxx Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Yes i do believe in god and if this topic doesnt get locked soon it is going to be an all out war. PLZ LOCK THIS TOPIC ANYONE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralinre Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Yes i do believe in god and if this topic doesnt get locked soon it is going to be an all out war. PLZ LOCK THIS TOPIC ANYONE. Lol, people like you keep saying that, but it still hasn't. The mods have no reason to lock this since most people have been mature about this and there has been little flaming. "In so far as I am Man I am the chief of creatures. In so far as I am a man I am the chief of sinners." - G.K. Chesterton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usara Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 yes i do cause how could everything just appear! Erm, exactly, how could everything just appear? Creation is a big load of crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonsie Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 yes i do cause how could everything just appear! Erm, exactly, how could everything just appear? Creation is a big load of crap. For god stepped out of the shadows and said let there be a world with many people, with different genetic traits and they shall be born from two, Adam and Eve, in the holy garden of Eden. Then they shalt be cast out for no real reason and left to suffer and generations after shall suffer and multiply and bring on more suffering. I am nice and shall forgive you for your sins, even though I could stop you from sinning and stop suffering but I don't like you enough to do that, but remember when good stuff happens, gods will baby but when bad stuff happens I'm just testing you I'm not really being evil... Thou shalt fear me and shall worship me, ye shall stay silent against my will and shall oppose foe with other beliefs. Shall thine person shake loose the mortal coil thou shall be judged and thou shall be cast down to eternal damnation despite my lack of proving myself to ye, ye may not of heard of me but tough luck thou shall suffer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonsie Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I believe in Jesus and I'm unsure about God. what? that's a huge contradiction there my friend. I fail to see the contradiction there, a person may of been called Jesus and though he was the son of god and may of healed the sick, created a religion and then died in a grusome way, miricals could be fake as magicians do make the audience see the right hand whilst you move the left. The fact this occured thousands of years ago little can be proven of what Jesus did. Me as an athiest have little though that "the" god exists but do beleive a man such as jesus walked the earth and did spread the word of "good" much like many other "messangers" have done in the past and will do in the present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambochae Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 yes i do cause how could everything just appear! Is 'God' included in this 'everything' you talk of? Anyways, do you know what is outside the universe? Do you know what was around before the universe existed? The answer is no. So how do you know that everything just appeared? Just because we can't see what caused it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That goes for everything, including god. But god is just one theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HugATree Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 if you do not believe in him, the favour is hard to be returned. Jesus is God, which is why he came to the earth for people to believe. and that's why we call him our savior and redeemer. Correction, Your God, not everyone believes in your god. Jesus's death was hardly a sacrifice for an Omnipotent being, a sacrifice is to lose something, what did God/Jesus lose that he couldn't replace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HugATree Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I believe in Jesus and I'm unsure about God. what? that's a huge contradiction there my friend. The definition of Biblical God is inconsistent, hes omniscient and omnipresent but has emotions based on recent events. Hes perfect but decides to create, what could possibly a perfect being want by creating something new? Was he lacking something? The Bible says he loves us and wants us to love him. A fully perfect being would have no need for love, as it would already have total satisfaction from itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnySmum Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 if you do not believe in him, the favour is hard to be returned. Jesus is God, which is why he came to the earth for people to believe. and that's why we call him our savior and redeemer. Correction, Your God, not everyone believes in your god. Jesus's death was hardly a sacrifice for an Omnipotent being, a sacrifice is to lose something, what did God/Jesus lose that he couldn't replace? The fact that Jesus constantly stated He was the Son of the Jewish God (Jehovah) should dispell any confusion here. A sacrifice isn't "to lose something", but rather The act of offering something to a deity in propitiation . Propitiation means taking away God's wrath, and this is what Jesus' death (the perfect sacrafice) does for those that have Him as their Saviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralinre Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I believe in Jesus and I'm unsure about God. what? that's a huge contradiction there my friend. The definition of Biblical God is inconsistent, hes omniscient and omnipresent but has emotions based on recent events. Hes perfect but decides to create, what could possibly a perfect being want by creating something new? Was he lacking something? The Bible says he loves us and wants us to love him. A fully perfect being would have no need for love, as it would already have total satisfaction from itself. Where is it written that God needed our love? He was perfectly fine on His own. He created us because He wanted to love us and for us to love Him. "In so far as I am Man I am the chief of creatures. In so far as I am a man I am the chief of sinners." - G.K. Chesterton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HugATree Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I believe in Jesus and I'm unsure about God. what? that's a huge contradiction there my friend. The definition of Biblical God is inconsistent, hes omniscient and omnipresent but has emotions based on recent events. Hes perfect but decides to create, what could possibly a perfect being want by creating something new? Was he lacking something? The Bible says he loves us and wants us to love him. A fully perfect being would have no need for love, as it would already have total satisfaction from itself. Where is it written that God needed our love? He was perfectly fine on His own. He created us because He wanted to love us and for us to love Him. Wants are to fill needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 yes i do cause how could everything just appear! Erm, exactly, how could everything just appear? Creation is a big load of crap. Because the Bible obviously states how God created right? :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HugATree Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 if you do not believe in him, the favour is hard to be returned. Jesus is God, which is why he came to the earth for people to believe. and that's why we call him our savior and redeemer. Correction, Your God, not everyone believes in your god. Jesus's death was hardly a sacrifice for an Omnipotent being, a sacrifice is to lose something, what did God/Jesus lose that he couldn't replace? The fact that Jesus constantly stated He was the Son of the Jewish God (Jehovah) should dispell any confusion here. A sacrifice isn't "to lose something", but rather The act of offering something to a deity in propitiation . Propitiation means taking away God's wrath, and this is what Jesus' death (the perfect sacrafice) does for those that have Him as their Saviour. So God offers himself to himself to take away his own wrath? If Jesus is God the offering part was redundant as God already had/is Jesus. So was the sacrifice just to finalise it, or just the blood sacrifice God so enjoys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 if you do not believe in him, the favour is hard to be returned. Jesus is God, which is why he came to the earth for people to believe. and that's why we call him our savior and redeemer. Correction, Your God, not everyone believes in your god. Jesus's death was hardly a sacrifice for an Omnipotent being, a sacrifice is to lose something, what did God/Jesus lose that he couldn't replace? The fact that Jesus constantly stated He was the Son of the Jewish God (Jehovah) should dispell any confusion here. A sacrifice isn't "to lose something", but rather The act of offering something to a deity in propitiation . Propitiation means taking away God's wrath, and this is what Jesus' death (the perfect sacrafice) does for those that have Him as their Saviour. So God offers himself to himself to take away his own wrath? If Jesus is God the offering part was redundant as God already had/is Jesus. So was the sacrifice just to finalise it, or just the blood sacrifice God so enjoys? That's a complex question - a logical fallacy. "or just the blood sacrifice God so enjoys?" is the same as me asking "when are you going to realise how wrong you are?" Both assume something to be true in the question. For years people had to offer animals of sacrifice to take away their sin. These animals were not perfect things, so they needed to be sacrificed each time. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, he spent time in hell for dying for us. I have to go to work now else I would write more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HugATree Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 That's a complex question - a logical fallacy. "or just the blood sacrifice God so enjoys?" is the same as me asking "when are you going to realise how wrong you are?" Both assume something to be true in the question. For years people had to offer animals of sacrifice to take away their sin. These animals were not perfect things, so they needed to be sacrificed each time. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, he spent time in hell for dying for us. I have to go to work now else I would write more... I know about God and his sacrifices, I find it ironic that he gets people into an endless cycle of animal killing but then stops it dead by doing the sacrificing himself. All those years surely had a purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expertgamer Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 if you do not believe in him, the favour is hard to be returned. Jesus is God, which is why he came to the earth for people to believe. and that's why we call him our savior and redeemer. Correction, Your God, not everyone believes in your god. Jesus's death was hardly a sacrifice for an Omnipotent being, a sacrifice is to lose something, what did God/Jesus lose that he couldn't replace? correction, THE God. He is God, and you can't change my mind nah nah nah nah nah nah. man some of you people need to read the new testament to get a better understanding of this and to properly address your arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GOD187 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Ok, I know this won't put an end to the sensless arguing, but this is thre truth. Believe the way you want, don't critisize others for their beliefs, for those are their own personal beliefs. If they believe differntly then you don't attack them on it. If you wish to debate the topic, thats fine, but don't out right attack ones religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usara Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 if you do not believe in him, the favour is hard to be returned. Jesus is God, which is why he came to the earth for people to believe. and that's why we call him our savior and redeemer. Correction, Your God, not everyone believes in your god. Jesus's death was hardly a sacrifice for an Omnipotent being, a sacrifice is to lose something, what did God/Jesus lose that he couldn't replace? The fact that Jesus constantly stated He was the Son of the Jewish God (Jehovah) should dispell any confusion here. A sacrifice isn't "to lose something", but rather The act of offering something to a deity in propitiation . Propitiation means taking away God's wrath, and this is what Jesus' death (the perfect sacrafice) does for those that have Him as their Saviour. So God offers himself to himself to take away his own wrath? If Jesus is God the offering part was redundant as God already had/is Jesus. So was the sacrifice just to finalise it, or just the blood sacrifice God so enjoys? That's a complex question - a logical fallacy. "or just the blood sacrifice God so enjoys?" is the same as me asking "when are you going to realise how wrong you are?" Both assume something to be true in the question. For years people had to offer animals of sacrifice to take away their sin. These animals were not perfect things, so they needed to be sacrificed each time. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, he spent time in hell for dying for us. I have to go to work now else I would write more... One of the reasons god was invented, to enforce mans superiority over everything. God is nothing but a power play tool by Humans to justify their exsistence, the things they cannot explain and their superiority, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnySmum Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 That's a complex question - a logical fallacy. "or just the blood sacrifice God so enjoys?" is the same as me asking "when are you going to realise how wrong you are?" Both assume something to be true in the question. For years people had to offer animals of sacrifice to take away their sin. These animals were not perfect things, so they needed to be sacrificed each time. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, he spent time in hell for dying for us. I have to go to work now else I would write more... I know about God and his sacrifices, I find it ironic that he gets people into an endless cycle of animal killing but then stops it dead by doing the sacrificing himself. All those years surely had a purpose? Yes, the sacrifices under the Mosaic Law were to illustrate how man can't be right with God by his works. The Law shows us that we need a Saviour. It's not ironic that God would show us that we need something before giving it to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambochae Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 if you do not believe in him, the favour is hard to be returned. Jesus is God, which is why he came to the earth for people to believe. and that's why we call him our savior and redeemer. Correction, Your God, not everyone believes in your god. Jesus's death was hardly a sacrifice for an Omnipotent being, a sacrifice is to lose something, what did God/Jesus lose that he couldn't replace? correction, THE God. Prove it. "Prove he isn't" => I can't. But I'm not the one making the claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 God is nothing but a power play tool by Humans to justify their exsistence, the things they cannot explain and their superiority, nothing more. This sums it up really well: Prove it. "Prove he isn't" => I can't. But I'm not the one making the claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creaphis Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I believe that there's a good chance that some higher power created the universe. The evidence is that we are conscious, so there must be something more to us than just matter. But... any god's name, their ideals and rules, are all inventions of people. Ever since people started asking "Why?" they have invented gods to answer that question. A famous person once said, "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him." An afterlife is also unlikely. Our personalities, our intelligence, our memories, and our very sense of what reality is all made up and effected by tiny shifts in a person's material brain. So, after our body dies, the only thing that could be left behind is a person's consciousness, if consciousness isn't also defined by the matter in a person's brain. Any afterlife would just be our consciousness, joining God's for the rest of eternity. Lastly, I don't want to change anybody's beliefs. Everybody can believe anything they want. I'm not sure whether God exists or not, and whichever god you follow isn't important. They all have the same ultimate ideals. Even though I don't know if there is a god, I still say a few words to him every night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usara Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Ok, Ill prove it. Who have been the most powerful and therefore superior figures for the last two thousand years? Religious leaders. Who has a soul making them more superior than their animal counterparts? Humans Who can't get into heaven because they lack a soul which only humans can have? Animals, making them less superior than human. Who had been sacrificed to make up for the follies of humans? Poor animals again. Who got victimised and ultimately put to death by questioning religious leaders proclaimation of what god did? Scientists, this made people afraid to question god, and ultimately made less inteligent people drink it up as their where no protests. There is my proof, religion is the worst thing that mankind has ever invented because it brings out the worst in those who desire power and also gives people a dispicable false idea of superiority. You may believe whatever your religious leaders say, or the ramblings of some book which indoctrinates the notion of god. But many others are not that stupid to fall for it without the given proof. The word of others means nothing in this world where everyone lies to get ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Ok, Ill prove it. Who have been the most powerful and therefore superior figures for the last two thousand years? Religious leaders. Who has a soul making them more superior than their animal counterparts? Humans Who can't get into heaven because they lack a soul which only humans can have? Animals, making them less superior than human. Who had been sacrificed to make up for the follies of humans? Poor animals again. Who got victimised and ultimately put to death by questioning religious leaders proclaimation of what god did? Scientists, this made people afraid to question god, and ultimately made less inteligent people drink it up as their where no protests. There is my proof, religion is the worst thing that mankind has ever invented because it brings out the worst in those who desire power and also gives people a dispicable false idea of superiority. You may believe whatever your religious leaders say, or the ramblings of some book which indoctrinates the notion of god. But many others are not that stupid to fall for it without the given proof. The word of others means nothing in this world where everyone lies to get ahead. You didn't prove anything about God, and you didn't prove anything about the phrase 'nothing but'. I can say 'coffee is nothing but horrible tasting garbage'. I can then go on to prove how terrible it tastes, but it doesn't mean it is nothing but what I just proved it was. You also use phrases such as 'people who are stupid enough to believe this'... this is terrible reasoning. How would you like it if I said 'people who are idiotic enough to not believe in God are plain ignorant fools'. You'd probably not like it very much. Yet of course you are able to subtly flame all who believe in God why? It also holds absolutely no rational value whatsoever. Oh and if the words of others mean nothing, then how come you're posting on a forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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