'Surge' Strategy

[Guest]

Iraq doesn't need a military solution, it needs a political solution, to make something work out between the different groups.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can't make political solutions with a bunch of terrorists, trying to send the country into civil war. Force is the only way to a solution at the moment.

[BlueLancer]

 

Iraq doesn't need a military solution, it needs a political solution, to make something work out between the different groups.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can't make political solutions with a bunch of terrorists, trying to send the country into civil war. Force is the only way to a solution at the moment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's no such thing as a 'bunch of terrorists' who just want to kill people for fun and threaten everybody and blow up stuff. Pure media brainwash.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's take a look at Hizbollah for example. It's labeled as a 'terrorist organisation'. Let's look at their activities:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

• 
   
   
   
  [*:23wlq86g]They have built hundreds of free schools
   
   
   
  [*:23wlq86g]They supply free medicine
   
   
   
  [*:23wlq86g]They supply shelter and food for homeless people which the government can't do
   
   
   
  [*:23wlq86g]They have welfare and very low-interest loan systems for the local population

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And yet, all you hear from them is their military wing fighting in Lebanon against occupiers and retaliating rocket assaults (that in this case would be Israeli armed forces who occupied lebanese soil in 1967 and still in 2006 refuse to return it). As a result, everybody thinks they are mad islamic fanatics who kill and eat everything that moves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Iraq may have some terrorist cells working within it, but the major powers are the two 'factions': The Sunni and the Shia muslims. The Shia have the majority and control the oil ministry and everything else which is important, which was quite the opposite under Saddam when the minority ruled the majority.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can't "not" negotiate with either faction, because they make up the whole population besides the small kurd minority in the north.

[assassin_696]

I'm against the war being started, it wasn't necessary and would clearly create a collapse in the fragile stability of the middle east. However, sadly now that we're in there (coalition) we have to stay there. To pull out would mean not only leaving the country in tatters but create more problems in the long run.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've been reading about the new commander of the American forces and his new approach and it seems fairly sound. Clear, hold, build, whilst nothing new will now be able to be far better implemented with higher troop numbers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Time will tell.

[Tigra00]

So I guess you guys don't have any faith in our nations leader. May as well just leave the U.S.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Funny you put it that way...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You know, about 76% (last time I heard, MONTHS ago) of the entire USA absolutely hates George Bush and thinks he is, literally, an idiot. You are in the minority if you do not. So why don't you leave?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At this point, if you actually believe in a "War on Terrorism", it is completely safe and reasonable to call you a brain-washed, mindless sheep. I'd feel very confident doing so. How can anyone look at the facts and say "Yes, this needed to be done!", honestly? Noone can. George Bush himself cannot. I heard him say, in an interview, when asked "What did Iraq have to do with 9/11 [then]?" he responded, "Nothing."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nothing? Really? Oh. I thought you were basing the entire "War on Terror" around Iraq? Oh, and you STILL are to this day! But they have no connection? Makes perfect sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't you find it odd that when we were attacked by Muslims extremists from Saudi Arabia, that we attacked Afghanistan and Iraq? Even if Saddam was loaded to the hilt with nukes, what does that have to do with 9/11? I find it amazing that noone asks these questions. Noone finds it the least bit convenient. There is a reason people think the government was behind 9/11 - partially because they attacked somewhere where they had something to gain, and it was the completely wrong place.

[One Too Far]

 

 

Wake me when the war's over.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm with this guy. I think the war is a complete waste of time and resources.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Isn't every war the same? :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

they are for the inisiators not for the defenders cause if you lose as defender you lose it al

[BlueTear]

There's no such thing as a 'bunch of terrorists' who just want to kill people for fun and threaten everybody and blow up stuff. Pure media brainwash.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's take a look at Hizbollah for example. It's labeled as a 'terrorist organisation'. Let's look at their activities:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

• 
   
   
   
  [*:v1jnkkik]They have built hundreds of free schools
   
   
   
  [*:v1jnkkik]They supply free medicine
   
   
   
  [*:v1jnkkik]They supply shelter and food for homeless people which the government can't do
   
   
   
  [*:v1jnkkik]They have welfare and very low-interest loan systems for the local population

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And yet, all you hear from them is their military wing fighting in Lebanon against occupiers and retaliating rocket assaults (that in this case would be Israeli armed forces who occupied lebanese soil in 1967 and still in 2006 refuse to return it). As a result, everybody thinks they are mad islamic fanatics who kill and eat everything that moves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And when was the last time they arranged a suicide bombing in, I don't know, Iraq maybe? Hizbollah is hardly a typical example of the various organizations and loose coalities who run around Iraq waging holy war on just about anyone - strictly speaking, are they involved in Iraq in any way?

 

 

 

Iraq may have some terrorist cells working within it...

 

 

 

May have? What, bar organizations that we'd label as terrorists, places a car bomb at a market full of civilians?

 

 

 

... but the major powers are the two 'factions': The Sunni and the Shia muslims. The Shia have the majority and control the oil ministry and everything else which is important, which was quite the opposite under Saddam when the minority ruled the majority.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can't "not" negotiate with either faction, because they make up the whole population besides the small kurd minority in the north.

 

 

 

And you don't find dividing a nation of what, 20ish million people into two factions a bit simplistic, even if we were to ignore the various factions that are run from the outside? That aside; Who would you identify as possible people to negotiate from either of these "factions"? Political leaders? Religious leaders? How are you going to find enough people who are able to agree with eachother, and at the same time, have some actual authority?

[malo2]

i think that now that suddams dealt with that instead of sending more troops to irag and suffering more deaths we should jsut pull puta there and let the iraqis deal with there own instability.

 

 

 

Sure, thats a good idea, but one problem: Were the ones who started all of the "instability", you can't just go into a country, start a civil war, and then leave to let them deal with it. We may have made a mistake from the begining, but now its our job to fix it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also theres another problem, try to rember why we went there in the first place... To save our [wagon] from being blown apart back home. Imagine what would happen if the U.S (or any allied country)never went to help in world war 2? we might be speaking German and/or Japanese right now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The U.S alone lost almost half a million troops there, uk lost almost the same amount, and the total being 62M. And imagine what would happen if nobody would fight back against Hitler and Hirohito? The current casualties in Iraq are pretty pathetic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's no such thing as a 'bunch of terrorists' who just want to kill people for fun and threaten everybody and blow up stuff. Pure media brainwash.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's take a look at Hizbollah for example. It's labeled as a 'terrorist organisation'. Let's look at their activities:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

• 
   
   
   
  [*:3fyeg1xl]They have built hundreds of free schools
   
   
   
  [*:3fyeg1xl]They supply free medicine
   
   
   
  [*:3fyeg1xl]They supply shelter and food for homeless people which the government can't do
   
   
   
  [*:3fyeg1xl]They have welfare and very low-interest loan systems for the local population

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And yet, all you hear from them is their military wing fighting in Lebanon against occupiers and retaliating rocket assaults (that in this case would be Israeli armed forces who occupied lebanese soil in 1967 and still in 2006 refuse to return it). As a result, everybody thinks they are mad islamic fanatics who kill and eat everything that moves.

 

 

 

Then do you mind explaining why would they want to blowthem selves up to kill the people that are doing the exact same thing? The goal of terrorists is to destroy anybody who dosen't follow allah in a radical way, radical Islam makes up about 1-3% of all muslims.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Radicals have been raised to belive that anybody that isnt a radical muslim is an infidel, so theyre the few million people on this planet that deserve to live. They feel this way because they were presented propaganda from chindhood, just like japan in ww2, exept the japanese felt glorious, but muslim extremists just hate.

[jak722]

 

 

 

Then do you mind explaining why would they want to blowthem selves up to kill the people that are doing the exact same thing? The goal of terrorists is to destroy anybody who dosen't follow allah in a radical way, radical Islam makes up about 1-3% of all muslims.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Radicals have been raised to belive that anybody that isnt a radical muslim is an infidel, so theyre the few million people on this planet that deserve to live. They feel this way because they were presented propaganda from chindhood, just like japan in ww2, exept the japanese felt glorious, but muslim extremists just hate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hezbollah is a paramilitary.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As far as I know, they still use military procedure and tactics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When Israel invaded Lebanon, there wasn't a single Hezbollah suicide bomber anywhere attacking Israeli targets during the conflict.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You probably confused Hezbollah with Fatah, Hamas, etc who are Palestinian groups.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although Hezbollah has and still supports some of these groups, they hardly ever resort to suicide bombings.

[Tigra00]

 

There's no such thing as a 'bunch of terrorists' who just want to kill people for fun and threaten everybody and blow up stuff. Pure media brainwash.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's take a look at Hizbollah for example. It's labeled as a 'terrorist organisation'. Let's look at their activities:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

• 
   
   
   
  [*:2tcrge9j]They have built hundreds of free schools
   
   
   
  [*:2tcrge9j]They supply free medicine
   
   
   
  [*:2tcrge9j]They supply shelter and food for homeless people which the government can't do
   
   
   
  [*:2tcrge9j]They have welfare and very low-interest loan systems for the local population

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And yet, all you hear from them is their military wing fighting in Lebanon against occupiers and retaliating rocket assaults (that in this case would be Israeli armed forces who occupied lebanese soil in 1967 and still in 2006 refuse to return it). As a result, everybody thinks they are mad islamic fanatics who kill and eat everything that moves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And when was the last time they arranged a suicide bombing in, I don't know, Iraq maybe? Hizbollah is hardly a typical example of the various organizations and loose coalities who run around Iraq waging holy war on just about anyone - strictly speaking, are they involved in Iraq in any way?

 

 

 

Iraq may have some terrorist cells working within it...

 

 

 

May have? What, bar organizations that we'd label as terrorists, places a car bomb at a market full of civilians?

 

 

 

... but the major powers are the two 'factions': The Sunni and the Shia muslims. The Shia have the majority and control the oil ministry and everything else which is important, which was quite the opposite under Saddam when the minority ruled the majority.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can't "not" negotiate with either faction, because they make up the whole population besides the small kurd minority in the north.

 

 

 

And you don't find dividing a nation of what, 20ish million people into two factions a bit simplistic, even if we were to ignore the various factions that are run from the outside? That aside; Who would you identify as possible people to negotiate from either of these "factions"? Political leaders? Religious leaders? How are you going to find enough people who are able to agree with eachother, and at the same time, have some actual authority?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are terrorist orginizations in Iraq NOW, before we got there, there was none. It's a fact that the Bush administration has rarely touched on.

[assassin_696]

There are terrorist orginizations in Iraq NOW, before we got there, there was none. It's a fact that the Bush administration has rarely touched on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Probably because they were being so brutally suppressed by a certain dictator, not to mention the rest of the population.

[1_man_army]

 

 

 

 

And im not sure if I know correctly, but he apparently HAS ADMITTED that some of the things that went wrong in Iraq is his fault.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There you have it. Straight from the horse's mouth. :-k

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And that shows a great leader; someone who can admit their mistakes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No a great leader learns from his/her mistakes and does not repeat them again.

[yomom1919]

i really dont see a point to this thread...

 

 

 

everyone already knows what the responses are going to be...

[Locke]

There are terrorist orginizations in Iraq NOW, before we got there, there was none. It's a fact that the Bush administration has rarely touched on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.iraqinews.com/org_ansar_al-islam.shtml

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ansar al-Islam is a radical Kurdish Islamic group that is supportive of Saddam Hussein's regime. This group is located in the pseudo-autonomous Northern Iraq. This group has ties with Taliban and al-Qaeda. It is the most radical group operating in the Iraqi Kurdistan region.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The founder of the group was caught in 2002, just a little bit before the U.S. invaded Iraq.

[malo2]

There are terrorist orginizations in Iraq NOW, before we got there, there was none. It's a fact that the Bush administration has rarely touched on.

 

 

 

What drugs are you smoking?

[unknownmasterofnothing]

Operation vietnam war #2 is commencing.

[Garrgoyle]

So I guess you guys don't have any faith in our nations leader. May as well just leave the U.S.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

XD

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree, get over here and let Bush rot. 8-)

[Tigra00]

 

There are terrorist orginizations in Iraq NOW, before we got there, there was none. It's a fact that the Bush administration has rarely touched on.

 

 

 

What drugs are you smoking?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I mis-spoke, there were no Al-Queda or Taliban groups in Iraq, and now there are, plus all the other little groups running around.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But the point was, there were no dangerous groups running around launching rockets and threatening America. NOW there is. We attacked the wrong country, in other words.

[Locke]

I mis-spoke, there were no Al-Queda or Taliban groups in Iraq, and now there are, plus all the other little groups running around. But the point was, there were no dangerous groups running around launching rockets and threatening America. NOW there is. We attacked the wrong country, in other words.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pre-invasion: Evil dictator who commits mass genocide on his people in Iraq. A large amount of terror networks operating in lots of different places and attacking American civilians on American soil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Post-invasion: No evil dictator who commits mass genocide on his people in Iraq. A large amount of terror networks have concentrated their efforts into one single country which is easier to fight and are attacking American troops who are able to defend themselves instead of American civilians who are slaughtered.

[malo2]

 

 

There are terrorist orginizations in Iraq NOW, before we got there, there was none. It's a fact that the Bush administration has rarely touched on.

 

 

 

What drugs are you smoking?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I mis-spoke, there were no Al-Queda or Taliban groups in Iraq, and now there are, plus all the other little groups running around.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But the point was, there were no dangerous groups running around launching rockets and threatening America. NOW there is. We attacked the wrong country, in other words.

are you telling me that the only reason terrorist groups are attacking us troops is because they invaded Iraq, and if they went to another country, lets say Iran, they wouldn't do anything?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You have to understand that they don't blow themselves up for fun, they reason they suicide bomb, is so they can fight off us troops, not just because there was an invasion and that somehow motivated them to launch rockets everywhere.

[Tigra00]

 

 

 

There are terrorist orginizations in Iraq NOW, before we got there, there was none. It's a fact that the Bush administration has rarely touched on.

 

 

 

What drugs are you smoking?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I mis-spoke, there were no Al-Queda or Taliban groups in Iraq, and now there are, plus all the other little groups running around.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But the point was, there were no dangerous groups running around launching rockets and threatening America. NOW there is. We attacked the wrong country, in other words.

are you telling me that the only reason terrorist groups are attacking us troops is because they invaded Iraq, and if they went to another country, lets say Iran, they wouldn't do anything?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You have to understand that they don't blow themselves up for fun, they reason they suicide bomb, is so they can fight off us troops, not just because there was an invasion and that somehow motivated them to launch rockets everywhere.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Iran? No, it wouldn't happen there. Iran funds those groups. They wouldn't allow them to run-a-muck killing everyone in sight for the sport of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What I'm trying to say is that Iraq had no connections to 9/11 AT ALL. And that is true. There were no Al-Queda/Taliban threats there (thus no reason to fight a "War of Terror" there). There are now because they supported Saddam, and we unseated him from power.

[malo2]

I really don't think you understand why the US went to Iraq tigra.

[Locke]

Iran? No, it wouldn't happen there. Iran funds those groups. They wouldn't allow them to run-a-muck killing everyone in sight for the sport of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What I'm trying to say is that Iraq had no connections to 9/11 AT ALL. And that is true. There were no Al-Queda/Taliban threats there (thus no reason to fight a "War of Terror" there). There are now because they supported Saddam, and we unseated him from power.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whether or not they were actually operating WITH Saddam (there were Al-Queda related groups in Iraq, if you read the link I posted you would see that) is irrelevant because they did support him. That sounds like a "connection" between them and Saddam. No, Saddam was not involved with 9/11, but that does not mean that Iraq is completely uninvolved with terrorism. I don't think anyone is arguing about whether or not Saddam was involved in 9/11 or not, so I don't know why you are trying to make that point.

[Adam007]

I like the logic of it all. Send in more troops so we can get our troops out!

[dusqi]

America created this mess and took responsibility for it. If they pull out now, they will be cowards. Iraq needs more security. But mostly, it needs more money to rebuild, so that it can be a stable country by itself. I should remind you that the American people supported the war at the outset, not just the government, so don't just blame Bush.

[trapical]

America created this mess and took responsibility for it. If they pull out now, they will be cowards. Iraq needs more security. But mostly, it needs more money to rebuild, so that it can be a stable country by itself. I should remind you that the American people supported the war at the outset, not just the government, so don't just blame Bush.

 

 

 

Well said dusqi, people seem to forget that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Poor Colin Powel he fought the entire Bush staff trying for peace, then when he lost that battle he tried to convince the UN, failed horribly, and now is unemployed thinking "I was right... and they fired me."