Tip.It Times Presents: So Who Needs Fansites Anyway?

[Seamus_Aran]

Its been a while since I've been here...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well written article though. Personal affiliation with Runescape is a good idea, but it entirally depends on the company and game. Its their own personal choice but it doesn't distract from the gameplay if there isn't a list of fan sites.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Assuming Jagex's plans are still to infiltrate online markets, I think it would be very hard to distinguish between all the different languages and keep a list of 'trusted' sites. However if they have scrapped those ideas for now, then perhaps it is time to intergrate a list of fan sites for the English speaking community...

[Kiara_Kat]

 

 

 

My 3k hits a day was just a guess, but checking the alexa data, it was right on. Tip.it Alexa data.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wish you wouldn't use that site on which to base your conclusions. The site you've quoted is not an accurate picture of traffic here at Tip. It. First, it's outdated. Second, you DO realize that the information only reflects the data of Alexa Toolbar users, right? What about the all the other people out there who don't have an Alexa Toolbar? Are they included in the traffic ranks? No.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From the same site you quoted:

 

 

 

What is Traffic Rank?

 

 

 

The traffic rank is based on three months of aggregated historical traffic data from millions of Alexa Toolbar users and is a combined measure of page views and users (reach).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What are Page Views?

 

 

 

Page views measure the number of pages viewed by Alexa Toolbar users.

 

 

 

[Biabf]

 

 

 

 

My 3k hits a day was just a guess, but checking the alexa data, it was right on. Tip.it Alexa data.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wish you wouldn't use that site on which to base your conclusions. The site you've quoted is not an accurate picture of traffic here at Tip. It. First, it's outdated. Second, you DO realize that the information only reflects the data of Alexa Toolbar users, right? What about the all the other people out there who don't have an Alexa Toolbar? Are they included in the traffic ranks? No.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From the same site you quoted:

 

 

 

What is Traffic Rank?

 

 

 

The traffic rank is based on three months of aggregated historical traffic data from millions of Alexa Toolbar users and is a combined measure of page views and users (reach).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What are Page Views?

 

 

 

Page views measure the number of pages viewed by Alexa Toolbar users.

 

 

 

I personally have never heard of an 'Alexa Toolbar' :oops:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great tip.it times (as usual) keep up the good work!

[Kama]

 

 

 

 

My 3k hits a day was just a guess, but checking the alexa data, it was right on. Tip.it Alexa data.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wish you wouldn't use that site on which to base your conclusions. The site you've quoted is not an accurate picture of traffic here at Tip. It. First, it's outdated. Second, you DO realize that the information only reflects the data of Alexa Toolbar users, right? What about the all the other people out there who don't have an Alexa Toolbar? Are they included in the traffic ranks? No.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From the same site you quoted:

 

 

 

What is Traffic Rank?

 

 

 

The traffic rank is based on three months of aggregated historical traffic data from millions of Alexa Toolbar users and is a combined measure of page views and users (reach).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What are Page Views?

 

 

 

Page views measure the number of pages viewed by Alexa Toolbar users.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kiara - I think you might be misunderstanding me here. Thet data is a minimum. I used it to illustrate the point that tip.it is actually a very profitable.

[n64jive]

This is more about Emergent gameplay, but since this topic is more active, i'll post it here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope Jagex changes with their "quick fix" policy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This policy has aggrivated me since the release of the game-room teleport. Jagex's next update was moving the fountain of hero's to the bottom and back of the guild...why did they do this, because with the new teleport it was "too close" for those wanting to re-charge their glories...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In my opinion, yay, you added something to the game that made it easier...IMO if they are going to take out things that make the game easier, they should take out all things in the game that make it easier, which would mean they would have to redo all of RS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now I don't have a problem with them adding things into the game that make it easier, but I don't understand why "Balance" something so small as now saving an extra 30 seconds to charge glories...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now I also know that it's jagex game, and Andrew calls the shots...and I have no problem with that, but I just beleive that we, the players, are paying money to play this game, and we should have a little more opinion...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure, Jagex listens to players, and they say they try to do what seems to be better for the gamer, but I beleive they don't. I beleive that maybe 5% of the time they do what the majority of the players think is a good idea...The other 95% of the time, they do what they think will better "Balance" the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To be honest, the majority of the gamers arn't stupid. We don't suggest idea's that Millions of GP should fall out of the sky, or they should get rid of rares, because we know the effects. We give constructive critisism on updates that Jagex releases, that we think will make the update that much better.

[jimjimson]

I think you are posting on the wrong topic n64

[D. V. Devnull]

Okay, I've read the article, seen the thread...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think The Editor may be onto something with this. Fansites, players, and the game company who makes the game really are all inter-connected. Take any one of them out, you kill the experience. Just that simple.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Off-Topic: Something about The Editor's Writing Style says that they are possibly female. Just a feeling I am getting here. Hmm, that would make them Madam Editor, now wouldn't it? :-k

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~Mr. Devnull

[sirhcssog]

well said. i think your point s are all right on the money. lets hope jagex reads this too.

[virtualchoirboy]

I love the article, but actually have to side with Jagex in their ignoring of fansites. How would you pick just one, or even 3-4. As a quick check, I did a Google search with "runescape fan site" (including quotes). Just quickly looking through the addresses of the results, there were over 40 unique sites in the first 100 matches alone. Yes, many of those are small sites set up by individual players to brag about their conquests, but in the end, it gives you a hint as to how many sites might be out there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In addition to tip.it (ranked #1, btw) and RHQ, I saw listing for the "official Spanish language fan site", half a dozen clan related fan sites and third-party tool sites. Even though it's not as popular as tip.it, should Jagex ignore in their partnerships and risk alienating people from multiple countries?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The liability angle is also one that needs to be considered. If they DID endorse one (heck, a dozen) sites, wouldn't those sites then benefit from an increase in traffic, and thus ad revenue? The point has already been made that tip.it could be a profitable venture and an official endorsement could result in non-endorsed sites suing for anti-competitive practices or whatever other legalese can be imagined.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the end, they have a global audience to consider. While it would be very nice to have a better relationship with them, I have a hard time seeing how they can do this without causing more harm to themselves than good to the community in general.

[virtualchoirboy]

On a different note, I had two other replies I wanted to make to posts in this thread:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) tip.it may or may not be profitable based on ad revenue. Kama said that hosting was $75-$100 a month, but may be forgetting bandwidth costs. Tip.it is an image heavy site with a rather large amount of information on it. Personally, when I visit the site, I can easily hit 10M of data transfer and I only spend 30-60 minutes here. Multiply that by 5K users and you've got 50G of transfer per day, 1500G per month. Throw in a forum use and people that spend all day here (lucky devils) and I suspect monthly bandwidth would be closer to 6-7 terabytes. That's not cheap when a lot of hosting companies charge per megabyte.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) Copyright. Moto_tsume, I hate to say it, but you are quite wrong in regards to US copyright. The mailing of an item to yourself has never been held as a valid method for preserving your copyright. Take a quick look at Snopes.com if you doubt me. I found it by searching "copyright mail" (no quotes). That being said, it really does depend on the user agreements. Consider that the player likely could not have come up with the new idea without first seeing the content which is already under copyright by Jagex (e.g. the game itself). The next level to consider would be the user agreement with Tip.it (or whatever fansite) and there, you were very correct, in that most sites have a "you post it, it belongs to the site" agreement. It you took the steps to formally register the copyright before posting, you might be protected, but it wouldn't be certain until fought in a court. Unless the poster explicitly states "I grant this to the public domain." or similar words, it may not be worth the risk to Jagex of the potential legal battle for the idea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* IANAL - IDEPOOTV: I Am Not A Lawyer - I Don't Even Play One On TV

[Albosky]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is $2,250 a month.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(.25 is the estimated average amount Google pays per click.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hosting costs about $70-$100 a month. Where is the cash actually going?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you know where we can lease 4 dedicated Dual Xeon Woodcrest servers each with 4GB of memory on 100mbit connections for $100 a month , please feel free to tell me ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the article , yes it would be nice to have a bit of a closer tie to Jagex , but I personally would not want our staff to be tied into Non-Disclosure Agreements and get information or access to any information before the rest of the players. There would be too much hassle involved should there ever be a leak , and seriously , what the enjoyment fact of the game would become none for our staff members. Don't forget , the crew plays the game for themselves too :)

[Kama]

 

 

 

If you know where we can lease 4 dedicated Dual Xeon Woodcrest servers each with 4GB of memory on 100mbit connections for $100 a month , please feel free to tell me ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If Tip.it is running this slow on that kind of hardware you really need to work on the site a bit more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Traffic Rank for tip.it: 5,493 (1,178)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Speed: Slow (78% of sites are faster), Avg Load Time: 4.0 Seconds

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Other sites that link to this site: 230

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Online Since: 26-Sep-1997

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We are however moving away from the original point I was trying to make, that tip.it is actualy a fairly profitable enterprise.

[nashy14]

Jimjimson just because there a British company doesn't mean freedom of speech doesn't apply. It does because the UK is part of the UN which means that it has to comply with its laws and believe it or not free speech is mentioned in the Human Rights. But yes you have agreed to their terms and conditions. And Zarfay theres quite alot of freedom of speech and you don't get banned if you follow the rules.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes you can speak to jegex you just have to stop smapping the forums firsst.

[Bobbington]

Jagex are very much in favour of freedom of speach! It really annoys me when people claim that us english live in the dark ages.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You need to understnad the point that where we ask people not to discuss things on the official forums it is to protect players. There is NO repression in the game atall.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even the rule about not discussing other MMORPG's on the forums is not for just to protect jagex'es business. They have explained this to me...... Jagex wish to beable to protect the players of the game, and would prefer their players to not have contact on an environment out of the game (as a result of meeting on the game) as, assoon as they are out of the controled environment they cant help to protect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If players where giving out things like say charicter names on other games, this could be used to meet them externaly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of corse, Jagex dont want defimination of their company on thier forums too..... I mean if you owned a company would you like people saying how bad you are on your forums? This does not mean jagex do not care what people have to say, they do care...... its just they would prefer it to be sent directly to them.

[StoneyBrook]

Poor Editorial in My Opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now before anyone flames me let me explain why.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First, I do not work for Jagex or any other game company and have no vested interested in standing up for Jagex other than I enjoy playing their game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have to take exception to the concept that the game companies have to live with us. It would seem to me that fan sites in this case are trying to force a need for their existence and muscle their way into the market.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let me give a real life example. It has to do with the United States and a debacle known as managed care. It was assumed in the mid 90's that if someone could help manage how much a doctor or hospital got paid, and information about necessary choices, and options of procedures were available and managed for the general public, the cost of medical care would drop - instead it rose at even higher rates. This had two impacts, first quality of care dropped as people were no longer able to make decisions for themselves and someone not familiar with them as individuals tried to make decisions on their behalf. And while they did hold some prices in check, any savings were used to pay the extra personnel involved and as in all organizations, no one was watching the watchers and their costs skyrocketed as well. Now most insurance companies are abandoning that model. And on top of that what made these companies authorities to begin with on how much something should or shouldn't cost?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is there a need for third party info in fan sites, yes. But are they necessary - no. Fan sites are the managed care of the gaming world. Helpful as an option, but not necessary to survive. Is it helpful to have a guide as to which doctors and procedures to avoid - absolutely. But weather I live or die ultimately rests upon the decisions I make - not someone else's opinions about how I should live.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fan sites, like managed care, are opinions about an industry. The final opinion that counts is sales. And any gaming company has an accounting department to know the reality of those figures. Sure we all like to think that some how we are so important that something can not survive without our two cents worth, but the reality check is if we were gone tomorrow, the world will not end and life would move on without us.

[Bloodveld]

I agreed with the whole article- until I read the part about you guys wanting insider information. If I were you, I would remove that part, as it makes the whole article look like you're trying to be "friends" with jagex just to get extra info, which I (hope) isn't true.

 

 

 

There are a few things I disagree with them some times though...... for example, I fully understand that allot of people wish to do quests for the rewards but hate quests...... or alternatively they are simply stuck and need a bit of help... so turn to a quest guide.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now quest guides are all very good, but it is impossible to argue that they donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t subtract from game enjoyment, I used to use quest guides, for every quest. I learnt nothing I feel by using them, i missed out of the story line of the game, and itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s not something that can be replaced.

 

 

 

One thing I have to add is that quest guides can be very important because dying costs you all your items on runescape. I personally think that a simple "An antipoison would be helpful for this quest" line in the quest requirements (in the rs knowledge base) would be a very nice addition to making quest guides less needed.

[Bobbington]

My issue is not with the quest guides...... it's more with the fact that people are missing the storylines of the quest, and so the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I feel it should be the fan sites duty to try and add some of this in.

[Jwddavis]

You claim that fansite do not take away from the game. However, you my friend, are wrong! I am sure many have been frustraited from time to time by finding a cool new spot to mine, woodcut, combat monsters, fish, ect, only to have this spot identified by a 'fan site' and then the spot become crowded by players. Everyone knows, less ppl, faster training. And with 13 million exp to get to 99, speed truly does matter. Take the new farming spot for an example. Before the new tree spot in the gnome stronghold, the mage tree there rarely had people cutting at it. But since the identifing of fan sites of this tree spot, now without having to actually be an "Adventurer" and explore the world of runescape, the mage tree is ALWAYS crowded. Just like all the other spots. This is just one example of MANY MANY places that otherwise would be left rarely known if it were not for the fan sites ruining it for the rest of us actual players. Another complaint that I have against fan sites that take a whole complete essence of the game are item databases that state prices. While these sites may claim that they are 'unofficial' and off by hundereds of percents, players still take them as gospel. Why does this matter, well it takes aways from the game true merchanting. When a player can honestly offer prices or trade items in a true barter system. This however is impossible, due to the quoted prices. People WILL NOT or rarely ever sell for less than the quoted prices. Irreguardless if the prices are accurate or not. Irreguardless of forum prices vs. in game prices. Selling in Forums allows for a player to ask for more. Why? Because they do not need to sale right now, they can list and wait, whereas in game, someone could sell a rune plate per say for 25k because thats simply what they needed at the time. All in all, yes, having suggestions of what to bring like an anti pot while fighting certain monsters, or quest guides to help a person out when stuck are good, but giving away 'secret locations' of key resources that would otherwise be left largely unknown ruin the game for those that enjoy actually just playing the game, and exploring, and finding out new areas and techniques. Also, bartering, a huge part of role playing games are obsolete(not to be confused with merchanting, an issue that has been exploited by a few autotexters ruining the game for all). [/b]Fans sites take these things away from the game.

[peterbluer]

Pretty good, but the beginning part was pretty off-topic.