The bit about Jagex staff posting here and reading these forums is interesting. Some of the ideas (check the support banner in my sig) that originated here are certainly deserving of some notice by a Jagex staffmember. But as I've read before here, these sort of ideas produced by players actually slow down the time it takes for Jagex to implement them in the game. If a player produces the idea, then by international copyright laws, that concept belongs solely to them, and any entity who attepts to copy that idea without express permission from the current holder of the rights is breaking the law. Therefore unless the player releases the rights to the company, the idea cannot be implemented in the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd really like to see those great suggestions be added to the game later, but because of our screwy laws and sneaky ordinances, the time it will take for Jagex to gain the legal rights will prevent many of them from taking place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is very true but that does NOT say that they can't take the idea (like the idea of a more organized bank system) and modify it and change it to the point where if can't be considered an infraction of the copyright laws. For instance they could take the idea of the catagories and instead of making them nameable by player they could just pre make them. If they do that they won't need to implement the locking part of the idea but then they could further change it by automatically sorting the stuff out just by having you depsosit stuff in the bank. And probably other things that I can't think of (hey I have been up for almost 48 hours here my brain is not working that good at the moment.) If using someone else's idea as a starting point to come up with your own idea is infringing on the copyrights then I should have failed my english courses from all of my schooling.

i don't really care if JaGeX is looking here or not... im not surprised they look here though it is used by ALOT of people (although everyone i know seem to use runehq (can i say that here :? )) but i would rather use these forums on the runescape official forums the mods silence you for anything theres no freedom of speech and if you complain the mods have to much power your silenced! its a bit of a dictatorship... so freedom of speech would be why they watch the forums

I dont realy like fansites, :P

 

 

 

i only use there guides becuase i you dont and go round trying to work things out for urself, its more fun but u get a major dis-advantage to other people useing the guides.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If they got inside info this would be even worse, I think jagex would be more likely to ban fansites than to give away there secrets to them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the long run I blame fansites to the childish playing we see now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:wall:

Reading your article, I was struck by how general it was. And no, I don't mean that negatively.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a fairly high position at another fansite (non-runescape related), and was reminded that a lot of the problems faced by Tip.It are echoed throughout the world of fansites. Without going into too much detail about my own situation, we often come into mistakes and things that the game skipped over, that isn't exactly apparent to those who don't go over it with a fine-toothed comb - I'm speaking of 3 year old mistakes at times. We have made many an attempt to get into contact with the people who run the game without much luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The feeling of being ignored is very much felt by myself, as well as those team members I work with. Very rarely is any effort put into acknowledging my fansite in the slightest, even though it is the leading authority of it's type, and well known throughout it's own community.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh one hand, adoration is felt for the main game itself (otherwise such effort would not have been put forth), but the lack of support of any kind makes it feel as though I'm being pushed into the corner.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for the great article, and helping me vent a little for fansites all across the web!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd also like to know, is there any particular game or site that you know of that acknowledges their fanbase in a positive light?

Well im not sure how many people are reading my comment right now, but long long ago sometime in the period of RSC Jagex did officially say they planned on starting partnerships with some trusted fansites.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However i think this was also around a time when they said they planned on adding official clan support into the game. We havent seen much in that area either, unless you consider team capes and multi level wildy (which i dont) clan support.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But that, like quite a few other ideas seem to have been proposed by jagex and forgotten. (player owned shops anyone?)

very nice long read...i agree that it would be great for fansites and jagex to have even a little cooperation, it'd really boost things around here.

i don't really care if JaGeX is looking here or not... im not surprised they look here though it is used by ALOT of people (although everyone i know seem to use runehq (can i say that here :? )) but i would rather use these forums on the runescape official forums the mods silence you for anything theres no freedom of speech and if you complain the mods have to much power your silenced! its a bit of a dictatorship... so freedom of speech would be why they watch the forums

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't have freedom of speech there for two reasons:

 

 

 

1. They are a british company.

 

 

 

2. You agreed to their terms and conditions when you signed up for their game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just thought I'd point that out

Jagex caused a bit of a storm at one time, requesting that certain sites (including this one, I believe), embargo their guides on a new quest, guides that were written by fansite staff/users with no privileged information, while other sites went ahead anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The opinion which then resulted at fansites that DID voluntarily comply, sems to be "never again", and that they have no business asking for an embargo UNLESS, they were actually providing a pre-lanch package to BE embargoed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On that basis, also, embargoed information would be a bit of a double edged sword, depending on how much post-release time they wanted it embargoed for.

A very interesting article, you certantly do have several good points.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It may be unlikely for Jagex to ever put a large amount of confidence in fansites however. One thing to remember is that, although the benifits of doing so may be cost effective and usefull to the company, the damage that would occur should a fansite be hacked or an administrator do something dishonest would far outweigh any gains.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A good way for Jagex to get in touch with their members would be to have a few people on R/D play rs for 1-2 hours a day. This may already be the case, but it seems that some updates don't really follow with developers who are close to their market.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sigh, if only they could fix the wilderness and clan system...

A very interesting article, you certantly do have several good points.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It may be unlikely for Jagex to ever put a large amount of confidence in fansites however. One thing to remember is that, although the benifits of doing so may be cost effective and usefull to the company, the damage that would occur should a fansite be hacked or an administrator do something dishonest would far outweigh any gains.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A good way for Jagex to get in touch with their members would be to have a few people on R/D play rs for 1-2 hours a day. This may already be the case, but it seems that some updates don't really follow with developers who are close to their market.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sigh, if only they could fix the wilderness and clan system...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What do you mean by "damage"? If you mean accounts getting hacked then that is completely your fault. YOU DO NOT USE THE SAME PASSWORD TWICE. So if you use your runescape password on Tip.It then you're putting yourself at risk.

Jimjimson just because there a British company doesn't mean freedom of speech doesn't apply. It does because the UK is part of the UN which means that it has to comply with its laws and believe it or not free speech is mentioned in the Human Rights. But yes you have agreed to their terms and conditions. And Zarfay theres quite alot of freedom of speech and you don't get banned if you follow the rules.

ok, I didn't know that, thanks

nice and long... this looks like a lot of effort was put into it! nice job.

Another Jagex crushing article. But I don't know or you're right here. You say we don't hear anything from them, besides if they don't like something.

 

 

 

What else do you want? Maybe things like, "nice idea, we put into the game". That's just a promise they can't even assure. And if they don't put it into the game, people will start complain "*whine*, they don't do what they promised", which also isn't the meaning.

 

 

 

So they better don't say anything about it and if they put it in the game, it will be noticed. And I think that will have around the same effect as posting it here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I may agree on putting a list of "good" fansites on their site. But, as said in the article, people will complain if that site was hacked. So eventhough a better relationship would be good, I don't see that in reality.

 

 

 

And that is another bad thing about this article. It's like the official rant forum. There has been said something is bad, but there isn't give a good solution for it. It's excactly the same on that rant forum, only here it is worked out a lot better.

If a player produces the idea, then by international copyright laws, that concept belongs solely to them, and any entity who attepts to copy that idea without express permission from the current holder of the rights is breaking the law. Therefore unless the player releases the rights to the company, the idea cannot be implemented in the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This isn't entirely true. The simple act of expressing an idea, especially over an internet medium, does not automatically subject that idea to any copyright law, especially international copyright law.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Intellectual property laws have become increasingly more broad with the sheer speed and actual amount of information that can be transferred over the internet. Because of this there are numerous safeguards against this exact situation you mention.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For example, when you registered here at Tip.it you agreed to an

 

 

 

End-User Agreement. I obviouslly do not know the exact terms of that contract here off of the top of my head, but as with most forums I'd garauntee that there is a clause in that agreement that says anything you post here becomes property of Tip.it, barring it wasn't previously trademarked or under copyright. So in those terms, unless you've already gone through some sort of standard means of copyrghting information you are, in essence, giving Tip.it at least some sort of ownership over the idea if they decided to use it. (As a side-note: In America you can copyright an idea by simply putting the idea in writing and mailing it to yourself. I know it sounds absurd, but the moment the package gets postmarked and as long as you never open it, whatever is written by you is copyrighted for a period of 4 years if I remember correctly. This is also only binding to American law, not international.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even then, cases like these are next to impossible to hold up in court. Let's say you posted an idea here at Tip.it and 3 months from now Jagex had implemented it into the game somehow... First, you have no course of action personally as you've put the idea on the internet and essentially made it free to anyone, most likely because of the user agreement you agree to on whatever forum or medium. Second, even though Tip.it explicitly says "Reproducing or copying material found on this site is not allowed." you would have one heck of a time proving that Jagex took that idea exclusively from this site. It would be too easy for them to argue that they have an experienced, dedicated staff that does nothing but research and conjure up such updates and the fact that they thought of something that happened to be mentioned somewhere else is purely coincidence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, all of this is just surface discussion. You could go on for pages with the complexities of intellectual property law and international copyright standards, but hopefully this clears it up a little bit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, just so I don't come off as blowing smoke I am currently a law student at a legitimate university. So I may not be totally qualified to give concrete answers, but I do know a little about which I speak.

I'll have to give this topic a yellow card.

There's no point in suing a fansite ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ we're volunteers, we have no corporate cash to pay damages. A games company, like Jagex or Blizzard (to pick two names at random), is seen as having huge assets and thus could potentially be sued.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is just not true. I see the google as sence ads on the forums and your site, as well as the `tickle` pop under window very time I open up tip.it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just for an example:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's say you have 3,000 clicks a day from a unique visitor. (It is very likely more but let's say it's the case for argument) Let's `guestimate` that only about 1% of your visitors will click on your Google ads(Here again, I assure you it is a much higher %). How much money does that make you every day?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3,000 visitors is 300 clicks on google ads.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

300 clicks is about $75 a day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is $2,250 a month.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(.25 is the estimated average amount Google pays per click.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hosting costs about $70-$100 a month. Where is the cash actually going?

 

 

 

.25 is the estimated average amount Google pays per click.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

wow slow down here poncho. Google pays more like 1 cent per click. nice try though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the editor said:

 

 

 

A games company, like Jagex or Blizzard (to pick two names at random)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

hm... seems like you have been "randomly" picking blizzard alot lately... :-#

Really nice article! Thak you for your loyal posting every time a new Tip.It times article comes out, Kiara Kat!

after all, who doesn't want to look cool by having all the information on the latest updates?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Think the point of the article is summed up by this line

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Think it's un-likely that Jagex will grant special priviliges to this or any other fansites. After all the staff at this/these sites are not picked or vetted by Jagex so they don't have complete control over which staff and how many fansite staff become party to advance information.

 

 

 

 

.25 is the estimated average amount Google pays per click.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

wow slow down here poncho. Google pays more like 1 cent per click. nice try though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just for the sake of your argument, I will humor you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My 3k hits a day was just a guess, but checking the alexa data, it was right on. Tip.it Alexa data.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At 1 cent per click and a 1% click rate per page vidited by unique ip addresses, the numbers come out well above my first estimage!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5,575: 3 month average visitors per day.

 

 

 

8.3: Average page visit per unique visitor

 

 

 

5575 x 8.3 x 1% =462.73 clicks per day on google adsence ads.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not including the tickle pop under ads here at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Using your 1 cent per click, that is about $140 a month. Please offer a link to that figure, as it is completely off. Gold farmers and Item re-sellers pay a premium for those ads, jacking up the average pay per click well above the google average to .25 a click, or about $3,500 in the pocket of some guy named [Admin Edit: no naming names]. $42,000 a year doesn't seem too bad at all to be running this web site.

The etitor is absolutly right. In some part, fansites attract players to the game so the game should be grateful.

i think that some kind of communication between the fansites and jagex is essential, because as the article points out, the fan sites see everything in a slightly different way, and surely jagex would want to know how their new additions are being recieved?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

but on another point perhaps it is worth considering that perhaps some "endorsement" from jagex for trusted fansites would actually help players, and possibly keep them safer? when i refer players in game to tip.it im often asked "is that a safe site". players are wary of fan sites because of various keyloggers and cookie grabbers that are out there. if jagex were to recommend sites like tip.it, those players would be more likely to come here, instead of going to dodgy sites. (i think that makes sense).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

yes i know that its not up to jagex to babysit the players when they arent in game, and perhaps endorsement isnt quite the right word, but for newer players, the ones who really need the help you get from fansites, i think it would help a lot.

I do hold allot of respect for fan sites, personally I can see they add alot of good unto the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are a few things I disagree with them some times though...... for example, I fully understand that allot of people wish to do quests for the rewards but hate quests...... or alternatively they are simply stuck and need a bit of help... so turn to a quest guide.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now quest guides are all very good, but it is impossible to argue that they donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t subtract from game enjoyment, I used to use quest guides, for every quest. I learnt nothing I feel by using them, i missed out of the story line of the game, and itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s not something that can be replaced.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In turn the lack of involvement in the game story mean players to not feel as connected and so can actually loose interest in the game, and eventually quit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I feel fan sites such as tip.it can combat this, be reviewing the guides policy (or having one at all) you could solve this problem, and educate players whilst helping them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For other things, like drop lists, tips for where to train, and good ways of playing, I totally respect, it's not something Jagex could really do, and maintain their respecibility as a gaming company, but it is still good information.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also love fan site forums, I am a moderator on the official forums, and they are total different to here. The Official forums are HUGE, and must surly be one of the worlds busiest forums, this is NOT a good thing..... We have to enforce very strict rules to maintain the community, where if we gave slack it would be abused, we are also very open to hackers trying to get an account banned, and so we could not ever allow pictures for example. Also if we where to have images, you could imagine what a key logger threat it would be (the official forums are 100% safe)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But forums on fan sites such as this one, do not have these diseconomies of scale, the community is much smaller, and in many respects much more mature, by having less people you can monitor much more closely and this helps to build a nice helpful community...... sure you get some who are only here because they got banned from the official forums, but from what I have seen it is better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From other aspects, I love how fan sites have such a large clan support system, I personally am not in a clan, and donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t intent to be ever, but again I feel its something fan sites could do much better than Jagex ever could.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I understand allot of jagex policies though, for example I know that they will never recommend a fan site, or 3rd party programs, and will never say they are safe, no matter how many people ask, this is because there are allot of "noobs" who play runescape, who will turn anything that jagex say back on them if it goes wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"ZOMG I download a program and got H4x0rd!!, I blame you"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But I do feel Jagex supports fan sites allot more than they say, in terms of what you said, of jagex cant check up on all sites and programs, I would not be so sure..... There is a whole customer support team, who are there to manage the wider community, and do check allot of fan sites....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I feel I have written more than I was expecting here, so I may stop writing now and more and I will start repeating my self for the 2nd or 3rd time .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-Bobb out-

Yea a fantasy runescape site would be cool and the article made me emotinally crushed :cry: . My brothers laughed at me but still good job.