The military has always been overwhelmingly conservative (minus the Vietnam War...where a draft was in place...)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I personally dont care what they think. They know no more than I do about it, they just see it first hand and follow orders, they dont have to know reasons, they just know they have to do it. it's their job. They become somewhat brainwashed if you ask me (no offence to anyone, it's just that you have to convince yourself on a cause, else it's be very hard to risk your life for something you dont agree with)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Keep in mind, many (other) generals and sergents, aswell as CIA and FBI agents have even been torn on the issue of the war and this rarely happens, most of the time they wont express their opinions if they are against each other.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would say that your statements have a bais twords one specific person or type of person.

The military has always been overwhelmingly conservative (minus the Vietnam War...where a draft was in place...)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I personally dont care what they think. They know no more than I do about it, they just see it first hand and follow orders, they dont have to know reasons, they just know they have to do it. it's their job. They become somewhat brainwashed if you ask me (no offence to anyone, it's just that you have to convince yourself on a cause, else it's be very hard to risk your life for something you dont agree with)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Keep in mind, many (other) generals and sergents, aswell as CIA and FBI agents have even been torn on the issue of the war and this rarely happens, most of the time they wont express their opinions if they are against each other.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would say that your statements have a bais twords one specific person or type of person.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

not my words, though i agree with pretty much most of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and yes, you could say soldiers are semi-brainwashed, but if that is what it takes to keep them alive in battle (and it is) so be it..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

yes, im biased, but so are you, so is everyone reading this post, so dont tell me im bias until your perfect

 

 

 

let the one has not sinned throw the first stone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i dont care if your a christian or not, that quote makes sense.

 

Just because this came from a soldier doesn't mean what he said isn't semi-stupid.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We're there to kill enemies, not build nations? Technically, we were there to build Iraq as a democracy. There were no Plane-Diving Islamists in Iraq until we showed up. We sent them into civil war.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll agree with some of it though, like how being all PC keeps them from killing efficiently. Like he said, it's war, not hopscotch. The objective is to kill as many people as you can before they kill you. Winner takes all, and there is no second place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

thank you for staying on topic =D>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Uh-huh.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's really sad to see some of the soldiers' points of view. They don't even know what's going on themselves, they only know what they've been told by the government. Every single soldier is mad because they think they're fighting terrorism and that we don't support them, and that's not the case. America was lied to and we're spending FAR TOO MUCH money on a war we have nothing to do with. We still support the troops, we would just rather they be at home so we can stop wasting our money on stupidity. Our education system sucks and is broke, America is going down the toilet and the President lied to us all, flat out, and drain Social Security. We're all screwed when we get older, and I hope all the Bush supporters realize that before the time comes to get their SSI.

 

The military has always been overwhelmingly conservative (minus the Vietnam War...where a draft was in place...)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I personally dont care what they think. They know no more than I do about it, they just see it first hand and follow orders, they dont have to know reasons, they just know they have to do it. it's their job. They become somewhat brainwashed if you ask me (no offence to anyone, it's just that you have to convince yourself on a cause, else it's be very hard to risk your life for something you dont agree with)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Keep in mind, many (other) generals and sergents, aswell as CIA and FBI agents have even been torn on the issue of the war and this rarely happens, most of the time they wont express their opinions if they are against each other.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would say that your statements have a bais twords one specific person or type of person.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

not my words, though i agree with pretty much most of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and yes, you could say soldiers are semi-brainwashed, but if that is what it takes to keep them alive in battle (and it is) so be it..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

yes, im biased, but so are you, so is everyone reading this post, so dont tell me im bias until your perfect

 

 

 

let the one has not sinned throw the first stone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i dont care if your a christian or not, that quote makes sense.

being bais isn't a bad thing...it just means that you (or your statements in this case) lean twords one side...no offence was intended in that, sorry if it had any :|

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:)

 

 

 

It's really sad to see some of the soldiers' points of view. They don't even know what's going on themselves, they only know what they've been told by the government. Every single soldier is mad because they think they're fighting terrorism and that we don't support them, and that's not the case.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And how do you know what you "believe" isn't told to you by the government. I doubt your as educated as the soldiers out there. How do you know every single soldier is mad that we are not supporting them? Did you take a poll and everyone voted "we don't support you" then sent it too the soldiers?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

America was lied to and we're spending FAR TOO MUCH money on a war we have nothing to do with.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How do you know America was lied to? Do you work for the government? I don't think spending billions of dollars and freeing an enslaved nation is spending too much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We still support the troops, we would just rather they be at home so we can stop wasting our money on stupidity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course people support the troops, ever see those bumper tags? Stop wasting your money?? I don't think buying a Wii or a Hamburger counts as "good" money spending.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Our education system sucks and is broke.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's not George Bush's fault, its your personal decision whether or not you want to learn. You don't need a school to learn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

America is going down the toilet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course America is going down the toilet, that's what happens with all civilizations, they become perverted and wicked and then they fall apart or are destroyed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The President lied to us all, flat out, and drain Social Security

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I doubt the President actually thinks that up, he probably has a script and reads it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We're all screwed when we get older, and I hope all the Bush supporters realize that before the time comes to get their SSI

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bush is not what is affecting the future, what is affecting the future is laziness, Look at the people here on Tip.It many of them have horrible grammar and when you point it out to them they want to be offended.

This is what happens when the government jumps the gun and starts a war based on lies and faulty information.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:shame:

I hate to sound rude, but it seems like this guy just likes to whine about every little thing.. :roll:

I hate to sound rude, but it seems like this guy just likes to whine about every little thing.. :roll:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure that he has the right to whine at whatever he wants when he's risking his life for people that doesn't deserve it

 

 

 

 

It's really sad to see some of the soldiers' points of view. They don't even know what's going on themselves, they only know what they've been told by the government. Every single soldier is mad because they think they're fighting terrorism and that we don't support them, and that's not the case.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And how do you know what you "believe" isn't told to you by the government. I doubt your as educated as the soldiers out there. How do you know every single soldier is mad that we are not supporting them? Did you take a poll and everyone voted "we don't support you" then sent it too the soldiers?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

America was lied to and we're spending FAR TOO MUCH money on a war we have nothing to do with.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How do you know America was lied to? Do you work for the government? I don't think spending billions of dollars and freeing an enslaved nation is spending too much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We still support the troops, we would just rather they be at home so we can stop wasting our money on stupidity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course people support the troops, ever see those bumper tags? Stop wasting your money?? I don't think buying a Wii or a Hamburger counts as "good" money spending.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Our education system sucks and is broke.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's not George Bush's fault, its your personal decision whether or not you want to learn. You don't need a school to learn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

America is going down the toilet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course America is going down the toilet, that's what happens with all civilizations, they become perverted and wicked and then they fall apart or are destroyed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The President lied to us all, flat out, and drain Social Security

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I doubt the President actually thinks that up, he probably has a script and reads it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We're all screwed when we get older, and I hope all the Bush supporters realize that before the time comes to get their SSI

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bush is not what is affecting the future, what is affecting the future is laziness, Look at the people here on Tip.It many of them have horrible grammar and when you point it out to them they want to be offended.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Darn, I almost thought you were going to have a valid opinion there for a moment. Too bad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What's told to me isn't told to me by the government. Infact, the government like to touch base on the facts very little because they make them look like doinks. Which they are. We went to war over WMD's. There were none. A 100 billion dollar "Whoops!" is acceptable to you?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Iraq wasn't an enslaved nation. It was the average dictatorship. Piss off the dictator, you probably die. Yes, it was a bad situation, but again, it's not why we even went to Iraq! All the bad stuff like gassing the Kurds happened before you could even remember it. Maybe you weren't even born yet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This has nothing to do with me buying a Wii or a hamburger, both of which are things I don't do, by the way. It has to do with Bush making a promise, then breaking it and screwing us ALL. You're screwed when you grow up. Did you know that? You're SCREWED. When bush was elected, there was a surplus in the budget. Yes, that means we owed nothing at all. Not a thing. Infact, we had money to burn! Social Security was reserved and set aside. Bush promised not to touch it. Within 3 years, he had drained it entirely. There is no money left in Social Security. You won't be getting it when you're older, but you can bet you'll be paying to receive it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your comments on education are just stupid. You don't need to go to school to learn, aye? Who do you think pays for homeschool programs? The government! It's part of the education fund, which can't afford new books. Ironically, we can afford $80,000 bombs to drop on Mosques, however.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are much more "wicked" countries than ours that are doing okay. Nice religious spin on that though. "America is wicked! It's God's wrath!" No, it's Bush's wrath. Feel the burn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Laziness is effecting our future, and apparent lack of literacy? Okay...But didn't you just say the education budget was unimportant?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Niiiiiiice.

For the soldiers comment you made, I just laughed. I'm sorry and maybe this is a bit judgemental, but I would say most of the army is actually uneducated, and by that I mean they didn't enter higher education and don't have a subject that they specialise in. Under this sense, I wouldn't say most people are educated. I would only say they were if they had a degree!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You live under the American Dream of Manifest Destiny (it still hangs over from when the "kind" Americans took over the Great Plains, their excuse being, "we'll educate them undrer a Democracy and Christianity and they'll have a new light"). You seem like a person that just takes everything the mass media and the government says to you without even bothering to question its nature or provinence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now you can bleat on about the Democrats all you want, Bush has created a situation where frankly, no-one wants to be seen standing next to him, except Condey Rice. Bush has succeeded in alienating everyone away from him. I ask you this. China in 20 years looks set to the world's most largest economic superpower (and possibly military power, given the satellite space missile incident a couple of weeks back). Yet your president seems more focused on fighting a losing war, that nearly everyone, including the Labour Party here in the UK, wants to end and for the troops to be withdrawn immediately? I ask you this, why isn't he investing into the economy and Social Security? Gordon Brown is doing just that over here and we've got the strongest growth in our economy since the Industrial Revolution! Invest into your economy instead of fighting this stupidly pointless war, and maybe you'll have a chance of competing against China in the near future...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the election thing, I'll tell you how he got in power. I seem to recall in his first election an incident about miscounted votes in the state of Florida (which coincedently, is run by G. Bush's brother, but far be it from me to say that the election was rigged without proof...)! I have no doubt in my mind that Bush will go down in the abyss of history as one of the worst Presidents America's ever had!

I am tired of Democrats saying they are patriotic and then insulting my commander in chief and the way he goes about his job.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Guy doesn't know what patriotism is. Patriotic people want to make their country better, so criticism is necessary.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am tired of Democrats who tell me they support me, the soldier on the ground, and then tell me the best plan to win this war is with a ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Åphased redeploymentÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

I am tired of CNN claiming that they are showing ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Ånews,ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

Now how about you find a similar piece from an Iraqi perspective?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To hear the Iraqi perspective very honestly and without too much bias, I highly recommend the recent documentary "Iraq in Fragments," which is up for an Academy Award this year. The director James Longley spent two years in Iraq - moving among Kurdistan, the Shiite, and the Sunni areas - and follows the lives in three kind of... chapters, or stories. I learned a LOT from the film, and highly recommend it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: In addition, I think dusqi is spot on. An Iraqi soldier has a very real and very valid perspective. This winter, when I went to Israel and spent some time with Israeli soldiers, I realized how hard it was to criticize a war or military action to the face of someone who is doing it - someone who has HAD to rationalize and really internalize everything they are doing in order to avoid cognitive dissonance and make sense of themselves - someone who is clearly a good person, and believes they are doing good, even if I know they are looking from a very limited perspective and even if I disagree of the military's actions. More specifically, they discussed stopping all Palestinians at checkpoints and why it was necessary for security. How could they not stop one, and then he/she might go blow up a mother and her baby? So how do I refute that? How does my third person perspective compete with their first person perspective? The answer is that it must, because if there had been a Palestinian in the room explaining THEIR perspective, I would have the same difficulties but in the other direction. The answer is that everyone must try to take a third person perspective, understand ALL sides, and that's the only way we can make progress and get anywhere - or else we just start calling the "other side" animals and destroy them mercilessly. And when both sides have rationalized destroying the other mercilessly - that's a lot of death and destruction, folks.

Another problem comes when one side has rationalized destruction and puts plans into effect to accomplish this but the other side is still stuck on "lets try to talk things out and see your side of things mode." Then the second side is going to have to learn the hard way to come to a conclusion fast or face destruction.

It is one soldier! He isn't reflecting the views of all soldiers (just to let you know).

hmmmmmm.......after reading all these posts, i have come to the conclusion that many of you think the united states soldier is a dumb illiterate redneck. well, let me tell you a litlle something. MOST ARE NOT, THEY ARE SMARTER THAN YOU OR ME! JUST BECAUSE YOU DONT HAVE THE GUTS TO REALIZE THAT IF WE DONT KILL THESE TERRORISTS ON OUR TERMS, THIS WAR WILL NEVER END! i know the easiest way out of this, as do most of you. we retreat. turn tail and run. show the terrorists that all they have to do is shoot a few of us and we will run for home. my opinion on this is that if we dont kill them there, they will kill us here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

now the second easiest way out. the one no-one (including myself) wants. we nuke the middle east. period. done. try killling us now al quieda. this is not a good choice (duh) for many reasons. many people die. we lose all the worlds respect. nuclear fallout. etc. this wont work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

now, the way we need to finish it. give our soldiers some slack. what war was ever won without a few civilians dying. yes, this is hard to swallow, but really, look at world war 2, we bombed many cities, killed thousands of innocents, and learned that it really didnrt work well. but it still worked. now, if we hadnt done that, heck, if we hadnt made a bunch of supply ships to send to england, we would have lost the war. but instead, we got our act together and killed alot of them to a few of us. that my friends, is the only way to win a war, kill more of them than they kill you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

so before the flame war begins, here is this post in a nutshell.

 

 

 

A: dont say my soldiers are dumb, the marines dont hire dummies (the army might :P )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

B: the only way to win this war is to kill them over there, not let them regroup and come over here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

C: the media and jag lawyers need to stop telling our soldiers how to do what they are the best trained at in the world, kill the bad guys, until they go over there and try to do it themselves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(i know this will turn some heads and upset some people, but frankly, i dont care. i am entitled to my own opinion just like you)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

oh, and keep the post after this one clean please, this post is just getting somewhere, so please dont get it locked.

 

 

 

I am tired of Democrats saying they are patriotic and then insulting my commander in chief and the way he goes about his job.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's not insult the queen, we must be patriotic. She could get mad...! And raise the taxes even higher...

 

 

 

 

I am tired of Democrats saying they are patriotic and then insulting my commander in chief and the way he goes about his job.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's not insult the queen, we must be patriotic. She could get mad...! And raise the taxes even higher...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

hey, first, thaose arent my words, and second, thats a US soldier, not a brit :wink:

JUST BECAUSE YOU DONT HAVE THE GUTS TO REALIZE THAT IF WE DONT KILL THESE TERRORISTS ON OUR TERMS, THIS WAR WILL NEVER END!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's not that I don't have the guts to realise that, it's just I don't believe that that is the correct way forward to stop terrorism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can say that the way to win a "war on terrorism" is to go into every Middle-East country with even the slightest whif of Al-Queda and wave your guns at them to stop them from organising attacks against the US. But I'm sorry, the war in Iraq and Afghanistan has only made things worse. Al-Queda has GROWN, not declined. Consequently, the occupation of Iraq had lead to the July 7th bombings in London.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can't you see that using violence to quell terrorism is actually only feeding the fire at its base? All it will do is alienate people against the US, thus making it more susceptable to attack!

 

 

 

hey, first, thaose arent my words, and second, thats a US soldier, not a brit :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You missed my point. There would be no such thing as a "US soldier" if the inhabitants of the early states didn't rebel against their commander in chief, the queen. USA would still be just a part of Great Britain.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or, else you could argue that the people who founded the USA were not patriotic. Basically, they were a band of rebel factions that went on to form a state with aid from some other european nations.

 

JUST BECAUSE YOU DONT HAVE THE GUTS TO REALIZE THAT IF WE DONT KILL THESE TERRORISTS ON OUR TERMS, THIS WAR WILL NEVER END!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's not that I don't have the guts to realise that, it's just I don't believe that that is the correct way forward to stop terrorism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can say that the way to win a "war on terrorism" is to go into every Middle-East country with even the slightest whif of Al-Queda and wave your guns at them to stop them from organising attacks against the US. But I'm sorry, the war in Iraq and Afghanistan has only made things worse. Al-Queda has GROWN, not declined. Consequently, the occupation of Iraq had lead to the July 7th bombings in London.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can't you see that using violence to quell terrorism is actually only feeding the fire at its base? All it will do is alienate people against the US, thus making it more susceptable to attack!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well what else would you do? Negotiate with them? Look at what happened to Spain the last time it tried to negotiate with a terrorist faction. :roll:

Look at what happened to Spain the last time it tried to negotiate with a terrorist faction. :roll:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's no proof ETA was behind the last airport attack, all they have is a supposed phone call. And they do have a realistic political agenda; The basques are in the middle of a country with which they don't have much in common: Different culture, different language, different manners...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They are almost in the same situation as the Irish compared to the English, they do deserve independence. (Though the ETA does use dubious means to create public awareness and like you said, enough so to earn them the status of a terrorist organisation in the EU)

splatmster24, I'm just replying to your comment about people thinking soldier are stupid, and your other comment about soldiers being smarter than the average person (or that what I got out of "you or me")

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You agreed before that soldiers were "semi-brainwashed" to believe in the cause that they are fighting for, which would say that they probably don't have 100% legitimate arguments when it comes to the war.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As far as soldiers being smarter than the average person just for being in the military, I'll have to argue the opposite, the average soldier probably joined the army because they couldn't get into college (or the college that they wanted to get into) so they decided to join the army knowing that they would have a better chance of getting in the second time around, which, yes, is smarter than thoes giving up after highschool and working for minimum wage expecting to live off of that, but still not as smart as thoes getting into college and going on without that middle-man of the military.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I would still say that even thoes exceptions of people that has good grades and joined the military dont nessarily understand polotics as many and wouldn't understand the cause as much as thoes who write the articles for the New York Times, or even as much as I do...again putting their arguments below the average person who cares about politics and studies it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does all this mean that I dont believe anyone in the military understands polotics as much as me or the guy writing for the NYT? No, it doesn't, it just means that (I believe) the average military personnel doesn't.

I believe the reason why terrisom is the most longest lasting war yet is simpley because of their stealth cloak capabilities.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In world war 2.. we knew who we was fighting, the germans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In Terrisom, who is the bad guy? Could be anyone. Its like playing Chess but you cannot see the enemies pieces and you do not know where the "King" is to put in the check mate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~Defender~

i know the easiest way out of this, as do most of you. we retreat. turn tail and run. show the terrorists that all they have to do is shoot a few of us and we will run for home. my opinion on this is that if we dont kill them there, they will kill us here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

so before the flame war begins, here is this post in a nutshell.

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

B: the only way to win this war is to kill them over there, not let them regroup and come over here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

More proof that the politics of fear DO still work. What was it Goering said again...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. ...Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stirring up fear of attack? Check!

 

 

 

Achieved by the constant movement of the national security level(not so much in the last few months.) The threat of WMD's, the complete stereotyping of all Muslims(and therefore all people who 'look' Middle-Eastern) among other things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Denouncement of "Pacifists"? Check!

 

 

 

Acheived pre-war by claiming that by not supporting the war or its continuation you are either; A)Sympathising with "THE TERRORISTS!", B)Unpatriotic or C)Not Supporting the Troops.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hermann Goring was right after all, it can be done anywhere. I'm sure if there is an afterlife the Nazi's will be having a laugh right now at the state of Iraq and how USA & UK dragged their countries into a needless war over nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Infact Bush and Blair improved on Gorings plan because they've exploited the fear they created amongst the people to force through legislation that effectively will help destroy civil rights - the Patriot Act(The name says it all :roll: ) and the biometric ID system in UK.