We found everything it takes to build the bomb, but the bomb itself, maybe we should have just waited until they finished the job and launched it at our allies or us before we responded. Then the world would have said "but you had evidence and intel that they were building them and you didnt stop it from happening?" we can't win, danged if we do, danged if we don't.

 

 

 

Almost every western country would have most of the materials or at least the ability to build them if they wanted to. I'd like to get a source to tell how close where they now and what kinds of materials were found. Also what about Israel for example? They've also broken many human rights and they now got nukes.

 

 

 

 

 

....our excuse to occupy a country? you need to wake up and smell reality. If we wanted to occupy it, we could and would. We wouldnt be walking around waiting to be shot at, while we train their soldiers, and try to help them develop a working government, build schools and establish order. Occupiers take over, and raise their flag in it's place. If it was aboout oil, as some other weak minded insist, we would have bombed the city, and set up a gas pump, hasnt happened either. wake up.

 

 

 

Read some basics of war , Sun Tzu's art of war is a good example. It's easier to make the country your satellite than totally occupy it. Totally occupying it would require too many human lives, cash and the country would end up being more unstable than Windows Vista. The Soviet Union had pretty much the same stratey: first "free" the country, then set up a new goverment which is loyal to them and then take all the advantages as possible from the people. In ww2 they for example sent out millions of people from other nations than russians. Why do you think those Iraq soldiers were trained? To get a cheap and loyal armed forces there.

We found everything it takes to build the bomb, but the bomb itself, maybe we should have just waited until they finished the job and launched it at our allies or us before we responded. Then the world would have said "but you had evidence and intel that they were building them and you didnt stop it from happening?" we can't win, danged if we do, danged if we don't.

 

 

 

Almost every western country would have most of the materials or at least the ability to build them if they wanted to. I'd like to get a source to tell how close where they now and what kinds of materials were found. Also what about Israel for example? They've also broken many human rights and they now got nukes.

 

 

 

 

 

....our excuse to occupy a country? you need to wake up and smell reality. If we wanted to occupy it, we could and would. We wouldnt be walking around waiting to be shot at, while we train their soldiers, and try to help them develop a working government, build schools and establish order. Occupiers take over, and raise their flag in it's place. If it was aboout oil, as some other weak minded insist, we would have bombed the city, and set up a gas pump, hasnt happened either. wake up.

 

 

 

Read some basics of war , Sun Tzu's art of war is a good example. It's easier to make the country your satellite than totally occupy it. Totally occupying it would require too many human lives, cash and the country would end up being more unstable than Windows Vista. The Soviet Union had pretty much the same stratey: first "free" the country, then set up a new goverment which is loyal to them and then take all the advantages as possible from the people. In ww2 they for example sent out millions of people from other nations than russians. Why do you think those Iraq soldiers were trained? To get a cheap and loyal armed forces there.

 

 

 

love the conspiracy theories, but I understand how people can think that way. unfortunately we are not Soviet Union, nor are we Nazi Germany...not how we operate....want an example...look at Japan, not only did we rebuild them, they are now a thriving country who owns half of America, and builds the world's most reliable cars and electronics. Pity we didn't truly "occupy" them, or bleed their bank accounts dry.

 

 

 

It does the entire peace loving world great service if we can make these idiots put down their AK-47s and embrace a democratic system. Not because it is our system, but because it serves the people best, and they will not continue to be the world's "hot spot". Although I doubt that will ever happen, religious fanatics can't get beyond their brain washing to understand that their way of living isn't the most effective. Proof? they have been killing each other for thousands of years. As some of the oldest civilizations, they should be the world's most powerful, rich and stable. Unlike America, which has only been around 200+ years, and we are the world's most powerful and rich. WHy? because we appreciate the individuals rights, encourage freedom of thought, assist in the development of individuals businesses, etc...not take control of everything.

 

 

 

DO we have corrupt politicians? of course, everyone does. Difference in our society is we have tons of watchdog organizations, who live to find dirt on politicians, from the President on down. We have slimy media types who will dig into anybody's life for a quick story, and revel on making the rich and powerful look bad. That's a good thing overall though, keeps the major pieces of crap from getting away with it for to long. Do we expect some type of kick backs from freeing a country of a murderous regime? Of course, wouldn't you? We aren't spending 600+ billion dollars just for the good Karma.

DO we have corrupt politicians? of course, everyone does. Difference in our society is we have tons of watchdog organizations, who live to find dirt on politicians, from the President on down. We have slimy media types who will dig into anybody's life for a quick story, and revel on making the rich and powerful look bad. That's a good thing overall though, keeps the major pieces of crap from getting away with it for to long. Do we expect some type of kick backs from freeing a country of a murderous regime? Of course, wouldn't you? We aren't spending 600+ billion dollars just for the good Karma.

 

 

 

You're neglecting the fact that we have four or five media conglomerates that control pretty much all the information we receive - and these conglomerates are all controlled to either a large extent or at least some extent by political motives. There would be no Woodward and Bernstein kind of coverage going on today.

DO we have corrupt politicians? of course, everyone does. Difference in our society is we have tons of watchdog organizations, who live to find dirt on politicians, from the President on down. We have slimy media types who will dig into anybody's life for a quick story, and revel on making the rich and powerful look bad. That's a good thing overall though, keeps the major pieces of crap from getting away with it for to long. Do we expect some type of kick backs from freeing a country of a murderous regime? Of course, wouldn't you? We aren't spending 600+ billion dollars just for the good Karma.

 

 

 

You're neglecting the fact that we have four or five media conglomerates that control pretty much all the information we receive - and these conglomerates are all controlled to either a large extent or at least some extent by political motives. There would be no Woodward and Bernstein kind of coverage going on today.

 

 

 

True, the biggest problem is each major news conglomerate is either leaning far left or far right, and it is easily identified as such by how they present news, and which video clips they decide to chop and show, the better to push their own political agendas. Foxnews: high and right (hoo-yaah) NBC limp and leaning hard left. Now as a hard core militant conservative Republican, I choose to watch Fox news, but even I dont like how they spin things sometimes to blame everything on the spineless, love-thy-terrorist-and-illegal immigrants-Democrats. Neither do I appreciate how NBC news spins everything the opposite direction. However if you monitor both, and read down the middle, you get a idea of what's really going on. Either way, between the two sides, all the story tends to get out. UNlike some countries who control what gets printed, and what gets viewed. We can't hide crap in our country, if we could do you think we would have allowed the embarrassment of Monika Lewinsky to be publisized? Let alone the never ending media hunt for dirt against anyone in power. WHich as much as I hate the media, it is a neccessary evil to keep things fair with checks and balances.

 

 

 

American Media single handedly does more political damage to America then all of our enemies combined. I especially love how they point out our military and infastructure weakness, as our enemies unblinkingly watch. How they interview retired Generals on military strategies AS we are making an invasion to Kuwait. Gotta love the pics of the enemy generals watching CNN to find out what we were doing, play by play. How they were showing all kinds of bright ideas on how to cripple America by poisoning the water supply, standing next to main piping vents, pointing out which windows on the White house were penetrable by small arms fire, explaining how easy and how devastating a dirty bomb would be to key position in our major cities...I am sure our enemies have thanked Allah for our media daily.

 

 

 

Just like as a Reserve police officer, I hate having to worry about cell phone cameras, because irregardless how by the book you are, anyone can take any video, and cut and chop, or show just a few seconds of it to give the perception they want to give, rather then the whole story. BUT, again, it is neccessary, due to the very small percentage of truly abusive cops, who need to be identified and imprisoned. But looking over your shoulder while doing your police duties is a dangerous position to be in, as is having to second guess everyhting you and your "suspect" is doing....such is life.

love the conspiracy theories, but I understand how people can think that way. unfortunately we are not Soviet Union, nor are we Nazi Germany...not how we operate....want an example...look at Japan, not only did we rebuild them, they are now a thriving country who owns half of America, and builds the world's most reliable cars and electronics. Pity we didn't truly "occupy" them, or bleed their bank accounts dry.

 

 

 

Where was the conspiracy theory?

 

 

 

Comparing Japan to Iraq isn't too good example. First of all Japan has and had a big role in whole Asia. Totally occupying it would have caused major problems with other Asian countries including China and of course the Soviet Union who was also interested in Japan. Second, right after ww2 it would have been a political suicide to even risk having a new war.

 

 

 

I never compared to you to Hitler's Germany. I compared your imperialism to the Soviet imperialism. If you can't see the similarities, it's your own problem.

 

 

 

It does the entire peace loving world great service if we can make these idiots put down their AK-47s and embrace a democratic system. Not because it is our system, but because it serves the people best, and they will not continue to be the world's "hot spot". Although I doubt that will ever happen, religious fanatics can't get beyond their brain washing to understand that their way of living isn't the most effective. Proof? they have been killing each other for thousands of years. As some of the oldest civilizations, they should be the world's most powerful, rich and stable. Unlike America, which has only been around 200+ years, and we are the world's most powerful and rich. WHy? because we appreciate the individuals rights, encourage freedom of thought, assist in the development of individuals businesses, etc...not take control of everything.

 

 

 

Fanatics or not, at the moment at least 64,000 and at max 70,000 civilians have died in military interventions in Iraq. That's right, civilians. Second, Iraq wasn't a home of religious fanatics.

 

 

 

The history doesn't bring peace. It's the current conditions. You were the winners of WW2, you didn't have to rebuild your own country from scratches and you had the nuclear weapons. Include that to a big population with good natural resources. After that compare it to current Iraq. They are bombed to the stone ages, occupied by a hated country (go to the older wars and sanctions to find out why) and so on.

Everything is a conspiracy theory when you don't agree with it. =;

 

 

 

As a soldier, you'd think the guy would realize what's going on and what isn't, but nooo, he preaches the propoganda like it's undeniable fact.

 

 

 

We all respect that you went to shot some Muslims tryin' to start stuff, but that doesn't mean the war is still [developmentally delayed]ed. We're not in Iraq for any good reason, trust me. Think back to how we got into Iraq, you'll see it eventually. Even George Bush has, and he is the most stubborn dude on Earth. Everyone hates him and his policies but he's like "Nah, they'll be fine. Let's get 'em boys!"

 

 

 

We're fighting an Islamic regime that DESPISES US. Training their military will do almost no good, because once we leave, it's still all Shariah Law and savage Muslims. You can't fix what doesn't want to be fixed. They don't see themselves as broken.

We're fighting an Islamic regime that DESPISES US. Training their military will do almost no good, because once we leave, it's still all Shariah Law and savage Muslims. You can't fix what doesn't want to be fixed. They don't see themselves as broken.

 

 

 

Saddam's Iraq was the he only country in the Persian Gulf region not ruled according to Sharia :P

Comparing Japan to Iraq isn't too good example. First of all Japan has and had a big role in whole Asia. Totally occupying it would have caused major problems with other Asian countries including China and of course the Soviet Union who was also interested in Japan. Second, right after ww2 it would have been a political suicide to even risk having a new war.

 

 

 

 

 

 

oh, so youve got a better example?

oh, so youve got a better example?

 

 

 

I pointed out how this American imperialism pretty similar to the Soviet one. I already pointed out why it isn't a good example and I why would I need a better example for that? Just because I pointed it isn't a valid example, it doesn't mean I should make a better one.

We're fighting an Islamic regime that DESPISES US. Training their military will do almost no good, because once we leave, it's still all Shariah Law and savage Muslims. You can't fix what doesn't want to be fixed. They don't see themselves as broken.

 

 

 

Saddam's Iraq was the he only country in the Persian Gulf region not ruled according to Sharia :P

 

 

 

Yea, do you think it will stay that way now? Not a chance.

 

 

 

Saddam was a pretty huge bastard, but he didn't like terrorists either.

Yea, do you think it will stay that way now? Not a chance.

 

 

 

Saddam was a pretty huge [bleep], but he didn't like terrorists either.

 

 

 

Nope, most likely won't stay like that and even if it would stay, we'll see a new generation of angry men who are ready to do anything, also known as terrorists.

Yea, do you think it will stay that way now? Not a chance.

 

 

 

Saddam was a pretty huge [bleep], but he didn't like terrorists either.

 

 

 

Nope, most likely won't stay like that and even if it would stay, we'll see a new generation of angry men who are ready to do anything, also known as terrorists.

 

 

 

Yea, so...I just want to see all these guys cheering and saying we're doing something proactive there now...in 10 years. In 10 years, all the 8 year old boys we pissed off by killing their parents will be old enough and filled with enough anger to do something about it.

 

 

 

I don't think handing out candy is going to help, soldier! Especially considering that I've seen soldiers handing out candy, and then one of the kids throwing a grenade at them afterwards. :shock: Man, what happened to riding bikes and eating cookies?!

I thought he had alot of good points, one thing I didn't agree with though was when he said that instead of people getting re-deployed national guard should get deployed. I feel that they are NATIONAL GUARD and that they should stay in our country; however I do feel that all of these re-deployments are unfair and that something should be done about it. I thing that quite possibly national guardsmen should be asked if they want to go to Iraq.

I thought he had alot of good points, one thing I didn't agree with though was when he said that instead of people getting re-deployed national guard should get deployed. I feel that they are NATIONAL GUARD and that they should stay in our country; however I do feel that all of these re-deployments are unfair and that something should be done about it. I thing that quite possibly national guardsmen should be asked if they want to go to Iraq.

 

 

 

National Guard IS being deployed and HAS been deployed for the last 4 years there now. I know many people in the Guard (come from a military family, and a lot of my friends in high school enlisted) who are eventually going to do tours in the mid-east and Afguanistan after MIT and AIT.

I thought he had alot of good points, one thing I didn't agree with though was when he said that instead of people getting re-deployed national guard should get deployed. I feel that they are NATIONAL GUARD and that they should stay in our country; however I do feel that all of these re-deployments are unfair and that something should be done about it. I thing that quite possibly national guardsmen should be asked if they want to go to Iraq.

 

 

 

National Guard IS being deployed and HAS been deployed for the last 4 years there now. I know many people in the Guard (come from a military family, and a lot of my friends in high school enlisted) who are eventually going to do tours in the mid-east and Afguanistan after MIT and AIT.

 

I know that and what I am saying is that I feel that they should have the choice since they are the NATIONAL GUARD.

Woops, I mis-read your post :)

Woops, I mis-read your post :)

 

tis fine tis fine

As has been said, the problem with this war isn't power, it's identifying the bad guys. 25 terrorists with AK-47's and black market pistols couldn't hold up to 25 soldiers with M16's, SAW's, frag, flash and smoke grenades, along with sniper and 203 support.

 

 

 

Can you imagine the uproar that'd be caused is the USA accidentally killed 100 Iraqi civilians, thinking they were terrorists?

Can you imagine the uproar that'd be caused is the USA accidentally killed 100 Iraqi civilians, thinking they were terrorists?

 

 

 

None, considering the US army has been imprisoning and torturing innocent people since the war started.

Honestly, the war is pointless. It doesn't concern us at all and it is not our fight. There are more important things that need to be taken care of at the time.

 

 

 

Heres one for you, I'm guessing president Bush never heard of Darfur?

 

 

 

What about taking care of the problems in our own country instead of worrying about the problems of other countrys?

 

 

 

What about global warming?( Yes i know im gona get someone who says"omg global warming isnt real!) The only thing i can say about that is maybe you should do a little research on it.

 

 

 

The Bush Administration was one of the worst things to happen to America. Not to mention it couldn't even win the 2000 election fairly. Gota have brother Jeb to the rescue eh? -.-

We're fighting an Islamic regime that DESPISES US. Training their military will do almost no good, because once we leave, it's still all Shariah Law and savage Muslims. You can't fix what doesn't want to be fixed. They don't see themselves as broken.

 

 

 

... someone is grossly misinformed about what it means to be Iraqi.

We're fighting an Islamic regime that DESPISES US. Training their military will do almost no good, because once we leave, it's still all Shariah Law and savage Muslims. You can't fix what doesn't want to be fixed. They don't see themselves as broken.

 

 

 

... someone is grossly misinformed about what it means to be Iraqi.

 

 

 

Ask them what is more important, being an Iraqi, or being a Muslim. I think we both know the answer. Seems the only people who think Sharia Law sucks is Muslim women. Go figure.

 

 

 

Watch the news sometime. Very very very few Iraqi's want us around anymore. They hate us. They want us gone now. And once we're gone, it'll be up to a bunch of Muslims to run a country. Read up on Sharia Law and I'm sure you'll see why that is not a great thing, but that's how it is going to be even if we stay there forever. I don't know why people don't get this...It's a country...Where literally 99% of people are Muslims...And they want it run by Islamic laws. The fighting there isn't even between the USA and terrorists half the time, it's between Shia and Sunni Muslim's arguing (to the point of killing eachother) over who's version gets to rule the countries laws.

 

 

 

I dunno'. They're all a bunch of little children. Spank them and leave so they can continue to make their mistakes.

We're fighting an Islamic regime that DESPISES US. Training their military will do almost no good, because once we leave, it's still all Shariah Law and savage Muslims. You can't fix what doesn't want to be fixed. They don't see themselves as broken.

 

 

 

... someone is grossly misinformed about what it means to be Iraqi.

 

 

 

Ask them what is more important, being an Iraqi, or being a Muslim. I think we both know the answer. Seems the only people who think Sharia Law sucks is Muslim women. Go figure.

 

 

 

Watch the news sometime. Very very very few Iraqi's want us around anymore. They hate us. They want us gone now. And once we're gone, it'll be up to a bunch of Muslims to run a country. Read up on Sharia Law and I'm sure you'll see why that is not a great thing, but that's how it is going to be even if we stay there forever. I don't know why people don't get this...It's a country...Where literally 99% of people are Muslims...And they want it run by Islamic laws. The fighting there isn't even between the USA and terrorists half the time, it's between Shia and Sunni Muslim's arguing (to the point of killing eachother) over who's version gets to rule the countries laws.

 

 

 

I dunno'. They're all a bunch of little children. Spank them and leave so they can continue to make their mistakes.

 

 

 

However, a very small minority of Muslims want Sharia law.

 

 

 

Few Iraqis want us around, but that's because we've acted arrogantly and not at all in their best interest - and in fact have caused a lot of harm to Iraqis in general.

 

 

 

Specifically,

 

 

 

And once we're gone, it'll be up to a bunch of Muslims to run a country.

 

 

 

I think if you look closely at what you're saying, you'll realize that prejudice and not logic is at the root of that statement. Muslims are not bad people. Muslims can certainly run a country well. The problem in Iraq is not that they're Muslim, but that there are huge political factions bent on gaining power, something that you'll notice has happened, you know, a few times before throughout history :P - and is completely unrelated to their religion.

 

 

 

If you look at the differences in the Shia and Sunni religious practices and beliefs, you'll find that they're fairly narrow; most of it is a difference in culture.

We're fighting an Islamic regime that DESPISES US. Training their military will do almost no good, because once we leave, it's still all Shariah Law and savage Muslims. You can't fix what doesn't want to be fixed. They don't see themselves as broken.

 

 

 

... someone is grossly misinformed about what it means to be Iraqi.

 

 

 

Ask them what is more important, being an Iraqi, or being a Muslim. I think we both know the answer. Seems the only people who think Sharia Law sucks is Muslim women. Go figure.

 

 

 

Watch the news sometime. Very very very few Iraqi's want us around anymore. They hate us. They want us gone now. And once we're gone, it'll be up to a bunch of Muslims to run a country. Read up on Sharia Law and I'm sure you'll see why that is not a great thing, but that's how it is going to be even if we stay there forever. I don't know why people don't get this...It's a country...Where literally 99% of people are Muslims...And they want it run by Islamic laws. The fighting there isn't even between the USA and terrorists half the time, it's between Shia and Sunni Muslim's arguing (to the point of killing eachother) over who's version gets to rule the countries laws.

 

 

 

I dunno'. They're all a bunch of little children. Spank them and leave so they can continue to make their mistakes.

 

 

 

However, a very small minority of Muslims want Sharia law.

 

 

 

Few Iraqis want us around, but that's because we've acted arrogantly and not at all in their best interest - and in fact have caused a lot of harm to Iraqis in general.

 

 

 

Specifically,

 

 

 

And once we're gone, it'll be up to a bunch of Muslims to run a country.

 

 

 

I think if you look closely at what you're saying, you'll realize that prejudice and not logic is at the root of that statement. Muslims are not bad people. Muslims can certainly run a country well. The problem in Iraq is not that they're Muslim, but that there are huge political factions bent on gaining power, something that you'll notice has happened, you know, a few times before throughout history :P - and is completely unrelated to their religion.

 

 

 

If you look at the differences in the Shia and Sunni religious practices and beliefs, you'll find that they're fairly narrow; most of it is a difference in culture.

 

 

 

prejudice yes, wrong, maybe not.

Ask them what is more important, being an Iraqi, or being a Muslim. I think we both know the answer. Seems the only people who think Sharia Law sucks is Muslim women. Go figure.

 

 

 

Actually, the Qu'ran clearly states that the law of the State comes before the law of Islam - something which the media don't like to mention in their biased Islamophobic reports on Sharia Law and Jihad. Also, I think you'll find many followers of supposed 'Jihad' are contradictory to their own cause. Nowhere in the laws of Jihad does it mention anything the occupation (or any international action for that matter) has done.

 

 

 

The fact is, most Iraqis want to be exactly that - Iraqis. This has been shown in countless opinion polls and amazingly has never really fluctuated in terms of opinion. What opinion polls have been quite clear on is that they want the occupation to leave so they can solve their own problems out. Whether or that involves a democracy is their option, not the Americans'.