The bible

[Saru Inc]

 

Your whole post is flawed.

 

 

 

First off, it is in no way proven to be 4.5 billion years. Show me the proof, in that case.

 

 

 

 

 

Second, Why are you comparing the Egyptian God to the Christian one?

 

 

 

The whole morals thing is wrong, a religion can't become 'outdated,' while some parts of it can, not the whole thing itself.

 

 

 

Also, Christians believe the universe was created in a week, not 4 billion years. It would not be a miracle if it wasn't 4 billion years.

 

 

 

I can't explain the light thing, I think about that myself.

 

 

 

Why is it irrelevant if they're talking about Dinosaurs or not?

 

 

 

And lastly, Science tells how something works, Religion tells WHY something works.

 

 

 

1. You didn't need to quote the whole thing...

 

2. I think the guy is banned anyway.. Or at least was banned.

 

 

 

The Earth really is that old, and most Christians realize that. There are very few fundamentalist morons who think the world isn't 4.5 billion years old. I won't try to tell you gravity doesn't exist, and you forget about arguing against a well known fact, deal?

 

 

 

A number of morals in the bible are outdated, or at least what was morally correct. He makes sense because the morals in the bible were based on the morals at the time of writing, the morals today are much different, so the bible doesn't really work as a moral guidebook today.

 

 

 

I mean there are a lot of good points in there, but if you only follow some of the morals then you are really just following your own morals, so it's not the bible.

 

 

 

Finally, science tells us how and why something works, religion is essentially a bunch of stories with morals, and a fictitious version of the creation of the universe.

 

 

 

I guess I didnt need to quote it, sorry.

 

 

 

Here's what I think: at least, when I think Fundamentalist, I think radical, who burns abortion clinics and kills atheists. But thinking that evolution and the big bang don't make you strange at all. Just like saying you like one kind ofi ce cream ove ranother doesn't make you strange, it's an opinion. Because if two people read the same thing, and get two different conclusions, they can call each other fact as many times as they want, but they both are only opinions.

 

 

 

And no, I'm not debating a well known fact, I know gravity is there; I know that microscopic germs exist; I know that bloodletting does not work; I know that the Earth is round; I know that the Earth revolves around the Sun, and not vice versa. So as you can see, all I'm really debating, and all I've ever debated with Science, is Evolution, and the Big Bang, which is about 10% worth of Science.

 

 

 

And, while some morals, yes, are outdated, like if your house was moldy, it was to be destroyed. But 99.9% (yes, I made that statistic up) of the 'oudated' morals are in the Old Testament, where they became outdated as soon as Jesus was born\died. We use so many today, even Atheists use them and aren't aware of it.

 

 

 

And, that part of following your own morals isn't neccesarily true, most Christians know that a lot of the morals or 'laws,' were made to purify Israel, and to set it apart from the world.

 

 

 

And, no offence, but who are you to decide what's fictitous or not? Can you accept the possiblity that you COULD be wrong?

 

 

 

 

 

And too Venomai, I meant what Lent says, yes Science says why something does it, but what I mean is, Religion states for what reason, what made it all start, it gives purpose, in a way Science never can.

[Iamdan]

But thinking that evolution and the big bang don't make you strange at all.

 

I'm not quite sure what that means :?

 

 

 

So as you can see, all I'm really debating, and all I've ever debated with Science, is Evolution, and the Big Bang, which is about 10% worth of Science.

 

Evolution has pretty much been proven to exist, and there is pretty strong evidence pointing towards the big bang being real.

 

 

 

And, while some morals, yes, are outdated, like if your house was moldy, it was to be destroyed. But 99.9% (yes, I made that statistic up) of the 'oudated' morals are in the Old Testament, where they became outdated as soon as Jesus was born\died. We use so many today, even Atheists use them and aren't aware of it.

 

 

 

You don't understand. If somebody 'follows the morals in the bible' but doesn't follow some of them, then they aren't actually following the morals in the bible. They have their own morals based on today's society, which has nothing to do with the bible.

 

 

 

And, no offence, but who are you to decide what's fictitous or not? Can you accept the possiblity that you COULD be wrong?

 

 

 

I'm not keen to get into this again. I've been through many arguments and debated many points about this, to the point where I am 99.9% sure they were fictitious, based on logic and reasoning. It's so tedious and pointless to argue about however, and I'm not going to change your mind so don't worry about it.

 

 

 

Science says why something does it, but what I mean is, Religion states for what reason, what made it all start, it gives purpose, in a way Science never can.

 

Religion gives a man purpose like drugs give a man purpose. It isn't real, it's debate ably weak, and he can have his own purpose without the use of it.

[Rebdragon]

Here's what I think: at least, when I think Fundamentalist, I think radical, who burns abortion clinics and kills atheists. But thinking that evolution and the big bang don't make you strange at all. Just like saying you like one kind ofi ce cream ove ranother doesn't make you strange, it's an opinion. Because if two people read the same thing, and get two different conclusions, they can call each other fact as many times as they want, but they both are only opinions.

 

 

 

And no, I'm not debating a well known fact, I know gravity is there; I know that microscopic germs exist; I know that bloodletting does not work; I know that the Earth is round; I know that the Earth revolves around the Sun, and not vice versa. So as you can see, all I'm really debating, and all I've ever debated with Science, is Evolution, and the Big Bang, which is about 10% worth of Science.

 

For the love of Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva, stop talking.

 

 

 

And you know, maybe start reading. For the sake of being productive in my suggestions, if nothing else.

[pureprayer]

 

According to the bible, the world is 6000 years old. Yet, it is PROVEN the world is approximately 4.5 billion years old. Fossils, examinations of the earths crust say that the world is billions of years old. Some people with a voice in their head is all the proof it is 6000 years old.

 

 

 

How is this proven? Science changes every year and the Bible doesn't. We cant even predict the weather right 100% of the time so why can we predict the age of the Earth? If you give 3 scientists a fossil to date using radioactive dating the three scientists will come up with 3 different answers. This has been proven. Also coal is commonly dated at 6000 years when dated.

 

 

 

Here is another point in which shows the world cannot be 6000 years old:

 

 

Please, explain to me how the light from the distant stars is here. How can we see anything in the universe past our own solar system. We simply wouldn't be able to, for light wouldn't have had enough time to travel this far.

 

 

 

 

What if the stars are closer than we think they are. We cannot be perfect on the speed of light or the distance of stars.

 

 

 

Another point, is dinosaurs. The bible does in fact mention mythological beasts, whether it is talking about dinosaurs or not is irrelevant.

 

 

 

Dinosaurs might have existed we never know they could have died in the flood.

 

 

 

A biblical day(when god created the earth) may have a different meaning, timewise, than our 24 hour system.

 

 

 

It wouldn't make sense if they had big days, as the bible includes sentences such as "he travelled for X days" If in fact, the days back then were big enough to account for the billions of years this earth has been around for, in this 'X days' he would have been dead in the first day.

 

 

 

It is also stated in the Bible that a day is 24 hours or 23 hours 58 minutes and 56 seconds if you want.

 

 

 

Fossils are billions of 'today's years' old, but apparently the bible is 6000 years old. I explained above about the argument about different sized days cannot be true, so if you believe in the bible, you cannot believe in dinosaurs. Which have been proven, you might as well not believe in gravity.

 

 

 

Again radioactive dating is not 100%

 

 

 

There have been many religions over the centuries. Each religion can be baught down to 2 reasons, one of which is morals.

 

 

 

Religion works great as a set of moral guidelines untill people start killing each other over whose god is better, or untill those guidelines become outdated. Christians aren't killing off vast numbers of any other religion at the moment (except Muslims, and that doesn't count because our motive is oil, not religious zeal, though you could make a case that the Middle Eastern conflict is a modern day crusade for the holy land). So is Christianity completely outdated?

 

 

 

The Muslim rational for not eating pigs is that they are "Dirty" animals and it is not gods will for us to eat them. This may have made sense thousands or even hundreds of years ago, when pigs may have had bacteria in them that could cause certain diseases. This is not true today. The Christian rational for not having sex before marriage is that it is gods will for us to create families and not have sex before marriage. This may have made sense hundreds of years ago when sex before marriage created unwanted children and social decay. It is not true today.

 

 

 

 

The other reason is to explain what science and technology can't.

 

 

 

One example is the ancient egyptions. They did not have the science and technology to know how the sun rose and set, it appeared to them to move across the sky. So they invented a god that moved the sun across the sky. Today we know that is [cabbage], and the Earth revolves around the sun - which is why it appears to move across the sky. We know this because of the science and technology we have today.

 

 

 

Lets briefly compare a story of the bible, to a religious story we have today.

 

 

 

The sun moving across the sky in ancient egypt, and jesus being the son of god.

 

 

 

They both took true facts. There was really a man called jesus who claimed to be the son of god. And the sun does in fact appear to move across the sky. And then turned them into stories to explain what science and technology can't.

 

 

 

A god passes through 12 gates, fights a serpent and carries the sun across the sky, and A man called Jesus claimed to be the son of god and performed mericles. (sp)

 

 

 

My question: How is the Ancient Egyptions religion, which we all know is rubbish, any different to the stories in the bible? There are in fact still people today who believe in ancient religions, because of faith even though they are wrong, and that is all that christianity is.

 

The Egyptian religion might be fake but would the Christian religion last so long if it were fake?

 

 

 

 

John 3:16

 

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

 

 

 

The fossil thing is "scientific fact" because no one can admit there wrong and no one can think of a better answer.

[Iamdan]

@^^^

 

 

 

 

God damnit why do I always instinctively click on this thread first before I realize what hell I'm entering.

 

I'm with you

[pureprayer]

[ThurinEthir]

An interesting read.

 

Precisely why I don't bother with debating stuff like this anymore. Christians, you're never going to convince an atheist

 

there is a God by arguing with them online. Atheists, you're not going to prove there's no God to Christians. Show, don't tell.

[Flyingjj]

An interesting read.

 

Precisely why I don't bother with debating stuff like this anymore. Christians, you're never going to convince an atheist

 

there is a God by arguing with them online. Atheists, you're not going to prove there's no God to Christians. Show, don't tell.

 

Agreed. As much as I don't like what the author was saying, I agree with the general. Just atheists need to learn the same thing. Don't call us crazy for believing what we do, or try to convince us that the Bible is horribly wrong because science says so. We won't believe you, so stop trying. Similar to how you ignore our personal stories, beliefs, and such, we think much the same about your rational arguments. Now please, can this topic go away? :pray: Please?

[Saru Inc]

An interesting read.

 

Precisely why I don't bother with debating stuff like this anymore. Christians, you're never going to convince an atheist

 

there is a God by arguing with them online. Atheists, you're not going to prove there's no God to Christians. Show, don't tell.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm quite aware, I just do this to past the time.

[Zygimantas]

A funny take on Christianity and religion ( don't take it seriously =p)

[six20]

 

Please, explain to me how the light from the distant stars is here. How can we see anything in the universe past our own solar system. We simply wouldn't be able to, for light wouldn't have had enough time to travel this far.

 

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_relativity

 

 

 

Might want to read that article before asking your question.

[Rebdragon]

~

[Shinjula]

An interesting read.

 

Precisely why I don't bother with debating stuff like this anymore. Christians, you're never going to convince an atheist

 

there is a God by arguing with them online. Atheists, you're not going to prove there's no God to Christians. Show, don't tell.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm quite aware, I just do this to past the time.

 

If you are that aware, how come your arguments really don't reflect that?

 

I've never once heard you talk about how much your religion has helped you in your life, or about the things youve been inspired to do because of it, its always been about other stuff. I've written very little about my own spirituality so far (in the do you believe in god thread) but in everything I write I try to talk about the inspiration and sense of my wonder at the universe. I've really never heard that from you.

 

 

 

Its why these threads do actually upset me, because instead of reassuring each other, athiest and christian, that we are all out there as moral people trying to bring our own perspective on enlightenment to the world, helping people as we go, building and bonding with those around us...

 

...we sit here and argue with each other. It's not really very enlightened of us, is it?

[Saru Inc]

Because I'm not writing my life story.

 

 

 

 

 

And because it hasn't inspired me to do anything 'great.'

 

 

 

It has helped me, in various ways, but it's not like it's inspired me to cure cancer.

[NoMoreDead]

Here's what I think: at least, when I think Fundamentalist, I think radical, who burns abortion clinics and kills atheists. But thinking that evolution and the big bang don't make you strange at all. Just like saying you like one kind ofi ce cream ove ranother doesn't make you strange, it's an opinion. Because if two people read the same thing, and get two different conclusions, they can call each other fact as many times as they want, but they both are only opinions.

 

 

 

And no, I'm not debating a well known fact, I know gravity is there; I know that microscopic germs exist; I know that bloodletting does not work; I know that the Earth is round; I know that the Earth revolves around the Sun, and not vice versa. So as you can see, all I'm really debating, and all I've ever debated with Science, is Evolution, and the Big Bang, which is about 10% worth of Science.

 

For the love of Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva, stop talking.

 

 

 

And you know, maybe start reading. For the sake of being productive in my suggestions, if nothing else.

 

 

 

Someone (else) had to say it.

 

 

 

The fact that you referred to Evolution and the Big Bang Theory as "10% of science" gave me the best laugh I've had in a while.

[Saru Inc]

I'm glad I made your day better. :wall: :roll: :roll:

 

 

 

Do you really think it's more than that much?

[Saru Inc]

Here's what I think: at least, when I think Fundamentalist, I think radical, who burns abortion clinics and kills atheists. But thinking that evolution and the big bang don't make you strange at all. Just like saying you like one kind ofi ce cream ove ranother doesn't make you strange, it's an opinion. Because if two people read the same thing, and get two different conclusions, they can call each other fact as many times as they want, but they both are only opinions.

 

 

 

And no, I'm not debating a well known fact, I know gravity is there; I know that microscopic germs exist; I know that bloodletting does not work; I know that the Earth is round; I know that the Earth revolves around the Sun, and not vice versa. So as you can see, all I'm really debating, and all I've ever debated with Science, is Evolution, and the Big Bang, which is about 10% worth of Science.

 

For the love of Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva, stop talking.

 

 

 

And you know, maybe start reading. For the sake of being productive in my suggestions, if nothing else.

 

 

 

 

 

Bah. You obviously can't comprehend what I'm trying to say. What I MEAN is: Evolution and Big bang, are really the only parts of science ANYONE even bothers to debate.

[Shinjula]

Evolution and Big bang, are really the only parts of science ANYONE even bothers to debate.

 

You might want to consider rephrasing that to say "Evolution and the big bang are really the only parts *christians* feel the need to debate *in online forums*

 

 

 

I think youll find that debate goes on in actual science all the time and in all areas.

[Saru Inc]

Yea, I did word that a bit wierd. Evolution and the Big Bang are the BIGGEST debates in science atm.

[Will H]

An interesting read.

 

I agree with that article completely.

 

Whenever I see someone 'preaching' to the street, I have always thought "You are never going to convince anyone that way". Religion, aside from stepping in when science starts dividing by zero (think Big Bang), is more of a guide to making yourself a better person towards others and eventually yourself. That does not mean a bout of 'human spamming' to people who will never try to hear you.

 

 

 

In my opinion, things like Creationism don't really bother me beyond their basic meaning, because there is nothing beyond the basic meaning, other than what we can find out for ourselves. Genesis is just a clever allegory, but it isn't so important in a religion as merely an attempt to demonstrate the idea of an all powerful God who created the Universe. What is important is how you live your life according to it, which means 'Loving thy neighbour', following a moral code which makes sense to you, and exploring what God is, and what God means to you.

[Rebdragon]

Yea, I did word that a bit wierd. Evolution and the Big Bang are the BIGGEST debates outside of science atm.

[Saru Inc]

Reb, do you ever post anything meaningful?

[Rebdragon]

Do you look for the meaning?

[purfishx]

Do you look for the meaning?

 

 

 

it done. kthxbai saru.

[meol]

Reb, do you ever post anything meaningful?

 

I think he meant that those topics are only discussed along religion, while real scientists might be more busy with other problems.

 

 

 

Anyway, it seems to me that you might be lost with religion. At the end, it wouldn't matter if you believe in Evolution or Gravity, but how you acted throughout your life, right? Religion is more about morals and ethic than prophets stopping the sun or splitting the seas. Jesus himself used plenty of parables as lessons to his followers, so why not assume the Bible is but a large parable trying to give you a moral, and not a historical lesson? Accepting Evolution won't undermine Christianity as much as you fear.