compfreak847

That wouldn't bother me so much. What would bother me would be losing my fire cape to 1 GP, and the massive influx of rants on this forum of that manner. There's a reason the death system is the way it is, and it involves a large corporation knowing more about the game they programmed then one angry person who died and lost his stuff at a place where he was well aware of the inherit risks thanks to the many safeguards and methods to determine items lost and elements of danger :|

You missed the point. The "worthy of discussion\backing up" means you have to show that your idea is a good one and worth carrying out - something that you have utterly failed to do, as all of the proposed solutions have irreversible flaws. See this thread for details on where the guidelines emerged. By your logic, I could post saying that no one was rich enough and a billion GP should be dropped every time any monster was killed. Of course, it would completely ruin the game, but that's Jagex job, right? Just because my post has no logic whatsoever behind it and has no possible solution doesn't mean I can't post it! Sorry, but that's exactly what the rants forum guidelines are there for. You can't whine about something which is your own fault and for which there is no solution =D>

Your also not getting that this forum HAS to have a discussion, as shown in my earlier post. I'll repeat the relevant section in the forum rules for you: And you can bet that Jagex reads their official forums much more closely then any of the plethora of fansites.

So why are you posting it on this forum, where not only does it break the rules, in all probability it will never even be seen by Jagex?

Exactly. So why do they have 94 people working on developing the game, while 140 field complaints from angry users? How many companies can you name that have a help desk team significantly larger then the rest of the entire company together?

Well, I was going to leave it at agreeing with you, but you've said quite a few things that I strongly disagree with, so I guess I'll begin the debate \ And what's your proposed solution to those problems? A high alch value is the best of all current systems for that, as a market price would destroy untradables and unbalance the economy. Selecting your own items would be absurdly complex, and we'd get rants from people who lost their Armadyl Hilt when they picked it up then died and their preselected granite shield protected over it. So your just throwing it out there without a discussion or possible solution, saying "its their job, just because I don't have a clue how to fix the problem doesn't mean I can't complain about it"? Then it should be locked, read the guidelines at viewtopic.php?f=66&t=783809 See above example. How does choosing your own items work when your inventory changes? I don't want to protect my infinity boots over a newly-obtained berserker ring at DKS, and I certainly don't want to go through the hassle of changing it every time I get a rare drop; with dagganoths attacking me, it's impossible to bring up any interface anyway.

How have I been defeated? I'm saying he's right and that I agree with him :?

Sorry, but I'm here to make money, not "challange" myself by getting hit far more with a ton of extra clicking You only have to do it twice per kill, two extra clicks compared to dozens from triple prayer switching is nothing. Hally and crossbow can both be switched with two items if your fast without losing a single attack round. Virtually all of the 'hassle' you mentioned is included with regular melee, and amplified by having to do it with 3 combat styles, getting hit nearly twice as often. Also, I'm afraid you missed the part where I said it was very close to regular speed thanks to piety flipping. You mentioned not potting, that could be one of the reasons your experiencing slow kill speed. Watch his video again, he details everything besides piety flipping.

Yep, they spend wayyy too much on CR for reports, and people STILL whine about it. =D>

There's really no reason to flame. I'm sure he didn't intentionally get himself killed, and it's quite probable he knew of the items on death interface. At any rate, he's got a more valid point then most rants on these forums. I can't even come up with a truly good argument against it.

It doesn't matter what it was made for, the point is that it is currently designed to be used in PVP - and the point is that it is far too good at it for anything but high level FTP.

Because you wanted to ruin RS and force Jagex to close it in a few months so no one could play, something implementing your suggestion would do. Since you seem to have recognized your mistake, I'd suggest PMing a mod requesting a lock so this thread doesn't continue to fill with spam\flames as poorly thought out threads tend to do. I'll leave it alone, unless someone appears and tries to defender it, in which case I'll wage an all out debate war -.-

I like it. And that's rare. I've thought a feature like this would come in handy many times. You can add me to the supporter list, despite what some people around here say, my agreeing wholeheartedly with a suggestion is a rare thing indeed and is worth being on a supporters list :P

Already covered in earlier posts in threads in this forum. Nowdays keyloggers can actively monitor the area around the mouse, and do a frame dump whenever the mouse goes over the colors of the PIN keys. If your computer is insecure enough to get a keylogger, it's a simple matter for a hacker to get your pin. Pins take considerably longer to enter then passwords, making this system both less secure and much more hassle then the current one. It would be used by no one.

Because they are all examples of magic spells used in RS combat, with a cost vs. damage factor and virtually identical effects - freezing and dealing damage being the main points. I don't "think" it, I KNOW it. Higher requs = lower accuracy. What? Like I said, a set of expensive, high level elemental spells and boosting of the lower reqs handily solves that problem.

*sigh* I take it you died and lost something valuable? Sorry I haven't been in the CC lately, I did 4 days of hardcore questing to finish WGS and slay demons, and it's very hard to talk while doing so. That being said, I am SICK of the duplicate threads on items lost upon death. As per my responses on half a dozen of these threads, before the GE, high alch was the only value that applied, and even if they change it now it presents quite a few problems - what about untradable\quest items? I don't want to keep 1 GP over my crystal bow simply because it has a market value of 0. Additionally, it would throw the market into chaos - the price of all armor sets is based upon what is lost and kept.

As low level magic is quite overpowered, bumping up the requirements for the spells to 75 or 80 would solve the mid range, and adding in one more set of spells at the high end completely fixes it. A considerable amount of debate in this thread has dealt with PTP magic, as it goes hand in hand with FTP. I find it completely on topic and worth posting.

It is, as the numbers have background ties to verify each method, and the second one is pulled out of context you'll start screaming about how it doesn't have cannon or piety or any of the other half dozen methods disproved in the early pages. Let's see, you gave the profit as 685k per hour. At 1/130 kills (previously agreed upon rate) per boot, and 240 kills per hour (81.6k XP\h, slightly high for a low HP\mid defence, spread out monster, but I think it's a reasonable assumption if one pays very close attention) not including your banking times, which you still haven't given me, I'm coming up with 240/130=1.85 boots per hour X 237k per = 438k per hour. Now, it's very difficult to pick up the lesser 1-2k drops without losing a whip hit, but I'm sure you throw that in, so I'll add the approx. 30k from that onto your rate. Nature runes and pure essense give enough back to cover prayer pots for protection and +10% strength as well as super sets, with approx. 20k left over. This gives us a grand total of, assuming ALL drops are picked up, 488k per hour. A far cry from your 685k per hour, a full 200k\h difference - and that's not inclduing banking\task time, which will add another few minutes to each task and drop the ates by 5-7%. The majority of those tasks were proven to be inefficient to cannon - see earlier in this thread. So you use +10% & piety with bandos? Interesting, I always used proslyte top\veracs skirt for that, but I do have bandos so I'm willing to go with it. A discrepancy, though. I use super sets, and repot every 5 or 8 minutes, but I'll try the 10 minutes. Not a big fan of brews, but it shouldn't change results. Then again, you said you made up your rates from earlier, so don't try to refrence them. The boot rate has always been 1/140. I'm talking about rare drops. A simple yes or no suffices, but a "no" makes it that much harder to compare rates. I knew it was a typo, and I responded to it as such. The numbers were based off my results, not yours, as duly noted above. I never said I hadn't heard of someone, I said I hadn't seen real proof of it being regularly obtained using the methods proven most efficient in this thread. If your leaving, we need to establish which numbers are different for each of us, as we'll never have time to test every task. I'd suggest we end the previous argument\flame war above for the sake of brevity; if you agree, I'll simply stop responding to the top so we can more easily debate the numbers themselves. I'm somewhat busy over the weekend, but I should have time for posting and some testing. We need to work fast today and friday, though, to have rates established and tested before you leave.

Interesting way of saying you lost, but it works. Oddly reminiscent of a child standing in the corner with his fingers in his ears screaming "I'm right!". Yep, that's what I've been telling you for several pages. Or because it has a dozen different sources, all tied into my central argument, and you have yet to produce a single one. I like to train it too, and it's a good demonstration of off topicness.

My rates WERE posted. As mentioned, most of them matched up with Qeltars; the ones that did not, I re tested until the correct numbers were established. I proved that it would have drastic effects on spirit mages, and rare drops for all monsters constituted more then your profit. Many questions on experience rates remain unanswered such as banking times, summons used, tasks cannoned, and specific outfits\prayers\pots used - and that's not even getting started on charm rates. No, you certainly didn't. Drop rates of 140 were used (later adjusted downards to please you), with kill rates of 240 per hour. Never seen 30.8k per hour, the most I've ever seen obtained is just over 19k. A drop of 8k XP is typical for paying less attention via posting on forums, IMing, and chatting with friends via CC and PM while tending to various RL tasks. Then give the rest so we can get on with the debate. Petty arguing over whether or not details should be released gets you nowhere. Assuming you meant now, and that would indeed be an interesting quote - except that it was certainly not the end of our debate, and my numbers WERE based on testing. I'm not even going to get into the issue of you completely making up rates for the first few months of arguing, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are now telling the truth (as I honestly thought for the first 40 pages). Two maxed players, slaying quickly and efficiently, are going to obtain very similar rates. If they don't, one or the other of them is doing something wrong. So here's my game plan for the next few months: If our methods and task details are examined closely, we can note the discrepancy in your and my results, then test with a standardized invo and outfit to compare results and eliminate as many possible discrepancies as we can. Once that's worked out, we can meet in game or use another method to slay side by side and see what's causing the discrepancy. We should then be able to hammer out the details of what we both agree slayer's rates are for once and for all; after that, it's a simple task to run the calculations to compare them to Armored Zombies 103k & 190k profit + 6.8k Summoning XP. We can both re test zombies as well to ensure that data is as accurate as possible and there's no room for argument in any of the rates). If you have any comments or concerns with that, please let me know now and I'll change it, I'm sure we'll soon get bogged down in the tiny details, but it's nice to have a plan to keep things moving (I usually do for debates, but I'm taking some advice and publicizing it to help keep debates flowing smoothly).

This one isn't, but this thread and the vast majority of my RS debates are. They can consider long term consequences, but it's not in the same manner that an adult would, for reasons mentioned in my post at viewtopic.php?f=66&t=787454&start=340#p6562002, detailed in the 3rd paragraph. But I haven't been making illogical arguments, my creditability has been doing fine, and my creditability really doesn't concern me much - I deal almost exclusively with numerical fact based arguments, where numbers are the only debate. Sure. You brought up a point, I refuted it. You reworded the point, I reworded mine. This was repeated until you gave up as you had either run out of patience or ways to reword your point. My original point still stood, as I had led you into a logic trap by forcing you to center your debate on act vs. be before I pulled out the dictionary and proved my use of them to be separate - effectively proving you wrong, with no other way to respond. On the contrary, basing an otherwise-lost argument on the fact that in a completely unrelated argument I thought a post was within rules and one moderator didn't is grasping at straws.

Since you apparently ignored the posts that detailed the links, I'll helpfully give you the background info: Math related: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buisness - Proof that for-profit business is expected to turn a profit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebra - Proof that our current decimal system is believed to be accurate http://www.mathleague.com/help/algebra/algebra.htm - Further proof that our current decimal system is believed to be accurate, after your denouncing Wikipedia as a reliable source http://library.thinkquest.org/20991/prealg/eq.html - Further proof that our current decimal system is believed to be accurate, after your denouncing anything not from Jagex as a reliable source Definition related: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/for-profit - Proof that "profit" represents a system where incoming (gross profit) cash flow exceeds outgoing (non-recoverable expenditures) as pertaining to Jagex as a for-profit company http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_sch ... th_America - Proof that grade school consists of 6-8th, and in many areas 5-8th grades, not simply 8th http://www.jagex.com/corporate/About/history.ws - Proof that Jagex was created as a corpertaion to make a financially viable profit (Second paragraph; "to make the operation of RuneScape commercially viable") http://www.runescape.com/members/members.ws - Proof that both FTP and PTP are created by Jagex and run solely by them; establishing that the two are interrelated, and cash spent on one must come out of the other if the profit is to remain the same. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/proof - Details of the word "proof" providing evidence that proof itself indicates the finishing of an argument Financially related: http://www.mechscapeworld.com/images/re ... erview.gif - Proof that server and staff costs do exist, and represent the vast majority of Jagex outlay http://www.mechscapeworld.com/images/re ... xStaff.jpg - Proof that CR makes up a sizable portion of the payroll, as relating to the forums and customer support\communication. That should clear up anything you missed in the first post :P It's hard to read moods over the internet, so I'll just set it straight: I'm in a good mood, no need to think of me as moody any more. I love debating, and life in general is good. I'm a naturally cheerful person, I always think of stress as killing my heart and making me die early. Keeps me stress free, unless I'm really down, in which case it makes it worse. But that's rare :lol: Some like it, some don't. I'm one of the ones who does : Mild flaming comes standard with my debates, anger hasn't been seen as of yet. See above ;) It's all on topic, relating to how FTP and PTP separate were a good thing. Posts don't have to follow the exact parameters set out by the OP. And it aint even close to a hot topic, take a look at my "slayer sucks" :lol:

I was referring to numerical facts, as evidenced in the third paragraph of viewtopic.php?f=66&t=765267&start=1340#p6592324 What? I'm saying that acting and being mature give the same physical end result, and the debate over whether it fit the definition of mature was purely hypothetical. Yes, but it's detracting in hopes that the issue can be solved in a few posts instead of having to drag through the rest of the debate for no purpose but monotonous back and forth - something you stated in viewtopic.php?f=66&t=765267&start=1300#p6591586 (2nd paragraph) that you didn't like about my debate style. I'm trying to improve, I can see you have a point \ You not only failed to respond to my posts but completely abandoned the thread, posting only once to agree with another poster on a completely separate issue. You can make all the excuses you want about "getting tired of the argument", but as it is, my points stand unchallenged, and no amount of regurgitation of old arguments on your part will change that. As evidenced in viewtopic.php?f=66&t=765267&start=1300#p6591119 and my response on viewtopic.php?f=66&t=765267&start=1300#p6591300 (8th paragraph), it was agreed upon (or so I thought, perhaps you have a clarification) that moderators didn't represent the end all be all of proofs.

Then it would belong in General Discussion. It has neither a valid argument nor facts to back it up; it's simply a discussion on a fact of life, on par with "taxes suck" and "it sucks that I can't afford a bigger house or a nicer car".

So the point is to make it easier to switch accounts? I could see this being handy for pures, but make it optional so that players who primarily use one account don't have to enter a pin each time. I do see one downside, though - if the username\pin to your login account is compromised, ALL of your accounts are.