compfreak847

Agreed about the strength bonus, but I guess I'd better clarify about what I was discussing. I'm saying that barrows should be a very, very rare status symbol for only the wealthiest. Barrows, even when it came out was not that hard; now it is downright simplistic.

Personally, I like the looks of barrows items over 3rd age. I bet if it was uber-rare, like 3rd age, and 3rd age was as common as barrows, it would be just as good of a status symbol, albeit one with a purpose. As for camping, 16 hours of steady combat is a lot of camping... About the only place where you really would do that is Dust Devils, and they are ~5 minutes away from a bank. You'll waste that much time picking up and eating your peaches. I agree with the +4 of berserker ring, but that does not have an equivalent with much better defence. Its a point; people will pay some for higher hits, but bandos is clearly inferior for most types of combat (Don't even get me started on people that do fight pits\castle wars in bandos, I easily beat them with torags).

Ok, lets do that. We'll take out food, because autoers can fish and cook it for money. We'll take out armor, as you can't make any, and good luck doing barrows without any potions, runes, weapons, or armor. Obviously we can't make potions, and we can't kill monsters for them. No weapons; no one can hunt abyssal demons because autoers can too! No arrows, because you can't make them, and no GP from high alching to buy them from the shop. No jewlrey, autoers can mine gems for cash too! So basically we're left with two foodless, armorless players punching each other until they die. Wonderful. And don't say we could kill monsters for items, autoers can do that too! Since there's no food to eat, and no armor or prayer to use, autoers can click attack as well as we can! They can change the name "runescape" to "fistfighting". Of course, its all just for fun; no one has anything to lose or gain. But at least you can train agaility so that you can run back to attack them faster! This may be a little extreme, but you get the point. Runescape is a skills based game, with some combat built in. Of that combat, some of it is fighting other players. Of that PVP combat, a small part of it is fighting dangerously, where you lose your items if you die. They modified that part. Now, does it make more sense to kill the skills, of which combat is one, of which fighting players is one, of which fighting dangerously is one, or to change the way fighting dangerously works, to make it require more thought then just mindlessly clicking food when there's more red then green in the bar above your head? Again, I'm stretching it a bit, but you get the point. Many people like me have plenty of fun in runescape, occasionally fighting in safe PVP games, but hardly ever trying venturing into the wilderness (Or now, bounty hunter). I just went to bounty hunter yesterday, and was reminded why I don't like dangerous PVP. One itemers in dd++'s show up, and take turns specing you until you leave or die. And yes, it was just this bad or worse in the old wilderness. Yes, I'm sorry it went, as are many other people. But its gone, and it was the least destructive thing to do. Now its time we move on and adapt to the changes.

(Warning, long read. Please don't get into an argument about it without actually reading, or at least skimming over, everything.) This has always been a pet peeve of mine, so I figured I might as well get other people's opinions on it. Barrows - That incredibly easy, fast, and fairly fun minigamegame. You get plenty of runes, so even if you don't get one of the "rare" items, you should still make a profit. At high levels, you should be able to do around 6 runs per hour, with chances of an item estimated at 1:18. That puts the chances of getting an item at 1 every 3 hours. Not too bad, so long as the armor is appropriately powered. Even a level 80 can do barrows and make money, so obviously it shouldn't be TOO good of armor. Right? Wrong. Let's look at the stats of the best barrows top and bottom vs. the top and bottom of the two other main "high level" armor (Top and bottom because there is no bandos helm). I'm using Torag's plate and legs in this example because it is the cheapest for the stats. However, Verac's skirt can be bought for around 200k more, offering a +4 prayer bonus. Remember, slash is the most important bonus for PVP, as most high level PVP weapons (Whip, Godsword, Dragon Scimitar) are primarily slash weapons. Barrows top and bottom stab, slash, and crush defence: Stab: +207 Slash: +202 Crush: +190 Range: +224 Cost: 570K Wow, very good stats, very, very cheap. Now lets compare that to Bandos Bandos Chesplate and Tassets: Stab: +169 Slash: +156 Crush: +171 Cost: 26,000K Bonus: +6 strength, +2 prayer Stats are not too bad, a tiny (+2) adventage over barrows in range, and with a small strength and prayer bonus, but quite inferior in the other stats. But wait - the cost is... over 45 times as much as barrows? Moving along, we get to 3rd age. The prices here are what they are trading for on the forums; they are currently impossible to buy on the Grand Exchange Stab: +174 Slash: +184 Crush: +196 Range: +172 Price: Very, very hard to buy; usually can only trade other 3rd age for it. Closest price I can pin down too is around 115,000K. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Himm, stats are slightly better then bandos in melee defence, but significantly worse in range. Both are far below Barrows stats. But wait... the price is around 200 times the cost of barrows. I won't bother going through a detailed rundown of mage costs, but basically Ahrims is the only real mage armor with decent melee defence, and has the highest magic bonus of any armor in the game. 3rd age has 0, that's right 0, melee defence, and much worse magic offense and defence. In other words, it is worse in every way. And yet it costs something like 80 times what Ahrims does. Range armor is the only place where barrows stumbles; Karils is beat by Armadyl armor. However, it is only by a measly +1 melee defence, +5 magic defence, and +3 range attack for the plate, which costs around 30 times the cost, and is worse then Karils if you plan to do anything with melee due to its negative melee attack bonuses. Let's not even go into 3rd age on this one, as I cant pin a good price on them. It is sufficient to say that Karils armor has better stats for far, far less cash. Now yes, there are some drawbacks and gotchas. First of all, barrows armor degrades, the main fault that is always pointed out when a discussion like this comes up. Yes, but... for 1 hour of fighting with the top and bottom, the degrade costs are: *drum roll please* 12K per hour! Half that if you have 99 smithing, somewhere in between if you have between 99 and 1 smithing and repair it in a POH. That's right, 12K per hour of steady fighting. Your probably going to spend more then that on food alone due to the increased amount of hits taken with other armor such as bandos. Not to mention if you die once with your 120M armor, it far outstrips the piddling repair costs on your 600k armor. Of course, there is the whole "honor" thing - 3rd age is sort of like a status symbol, somewhat like a party hat. But should it really be this way? What if barrows armor was the rare stuff, and 3rd age was more common. Let's take a look at how you get each piece of armor. First, barrows. You fight 6 barrows brothers, ranging from level 98-120, one at a time. They only use one attack, so they can be prayed against. One of them can hit through prayer, but his max hit is 14 with prayer, and he rarely hits (~1-2 times per kill at high levels). All of them are extremely weak to mage, and can be killed with little trouble with cheap spells while wearing melee armor to keep from being hit. There are safespots in the tunnels, a very small and simple maze you have to negotiate, that allow you to kill all of the melee brothers without taking hits. A run takes around 10 minutes, and has a 1/18 chance of giving an item. You will get many runes, which almost always pays for the cost of supplies, and allows you to make a good profit even with no items. High level players can camp for 5-10 runs, and getting there takes only a couple of minutes with a house portal (Level 50 construction). Fairly simple, right? Next up, Bandos. You fight 1 main boss and 3 minions at the same time. The boss is level 624, and all of the minions are above level 140. The boss can hit up to 60 with his melee attack, which must be prayed against. He frequently uses a range attack, that hits up to 35 and rarely splashes. In the meantime, you are under attack by all of the minions, which can each hit up to 21. If you do manage to kill him, you have a 1/75 chance of reciving an item. You can also get a hilt, which is a very valuable but rare item that can be sold for a lot of money on the Grand Exchange. One kill takes around 20 minutes to set up and kill, and costs around 200k in potions. You rarely get drops that cover that much, but when you do they are worth quite a bit. You usually can only kill him once per trip, sometimes twice. He is only for the best and highest-leveled players. You can also go in a team, but then the drops will be split and you will not receive nearly as much as you would if you killed him by yourself. And finally, 3rd age. You kill monsters to get clues, which are fairly rare. It usually takes a couple of days to get a clue, unless you are specifically farming them, in which case you may get once every hour or two. They are long and complicated, but offer a good reward. 3rd age is not usually the reason people do clues; it is too rare to matter. You can get other good rewards from clues. 3rd age chances are around 1/10000, so don't be expecting much. They do not take much in the way of supplies to do, and usually give a profit, at the expense of being rare, hard to find, and slow. Bottom line: Barrows is far, far easier to get then Bandos or 3rd age, and has much better stats then the other two in almost every way. On top of that, it costs many many times less then them. Isn't this backwards? Shouldn't armor with stats like barrows be as rare as 3rd age, and armor with stats like 3rd age be as common as barrows? Bandos can be somewhere between... Some people will argue that 3rd age is a status symbol; in my opinion, barrows should be the ultra rare, ultra expensive "status symbol" that just happens to have the best stats by far of any equipment in the game. I'm not sure what Jagex was thinking when they released barrows; were they planning on something this common and cheap? In my opinion, the barrows minigame should be MUCH longer, MUCH harder, and the chances of an item should be MUCH less. It's probably too late to change it now, but should Jagex have done it that way when they designed the barrows? (Don't get me wrong, I've earned plenty from bandos myself, but I'm not interested in it as an armor. I could buy myself some if I wanted too, but that +6 strength isn't worth the sacrifice in defence and the much larger cost, unless I want to buy some just for the purpose of finding out my max hit. Seriously, +6 strength is going to hit what, 1 higher? I bet you couldn't tell if you were wearing barrows or bandos if you couldn't see, unless you got lucky and hit your 1 higher max with bandos. I guess I'd better clarify about what I was discussing; I'm saying that barrows should be a very, very rare status symbol for only the wealthiest. Barrows, even when it came out was not that hard; now it is downright simplistic. Another clarification, either I'm an idiot or people are just missing my point. I'm asking why Jagex didn't make "3rd age" have the stats of barrows, and vice versa. Would be more logical that the rare, cool looking, expensive armor should be better then the cheap, easy to get barrows armor? Did they make a mistake and make barrows too easy, or is there more reasons behind it? Sorry for the long read, I know that 95% of you won't bother reading anywhere close to all of this, but just skim through it. I just wanted to type all this for the few people that actually will. =D

Do people even read those development diary thingys? :roll: Jagex would be forced to disable credit card payment (Rendering hundreds of thousands of people unable to pay) or worse yet, shut down Runescape if they did not stop RWT. Runescape with a modified version of PKing is better then no Runescape. And, like hundreds of thousands of others, I really don't miss PKing much. Yes, I had a pure etc. etc. etc, but the wildy was full of no honor, one itemers that PJed you every time you got a kill, and tried to lure\backstab\team\pile you at every turn. Its not coming back, and I think the "silent majority" really doesn't mind that much. Sure, the week of the updates the entire rants forum was filled with angry PKers, but now for every "bring the wildy back" rant is 10 people copying and pasting some mostly inn accurate widely spread list of why its not coming back. Common sense is prevailing, even if it is in the form of blindly following and copying anyone who sounds intelligent.

I. Am. Jealous. What do you plan on doing, after getting the highest level in every skill in the game? Earn the maximum amount of GP in the game? Max out the XP in every skill? =P~

Wow, your stats are like mine, only somewhat better. Especially slayer. I'll give it 8/10, get 88 summoning to get it to 9 (Right now all I care about is combat, and summoning in particular).

Meh, I figure it'll be just like all the other items that skyrocket due to a new quest. They'll shoot up, and you won't be able to buy a single one at max price. Then just a suddenly they'll crash, and you won't be able to sell one at minimum. They might swing around a bit, but unlike rare drops once the interest in the new quest\slayer slacks off they should return to their normal or slightly higher then normal price.

Good job, summoning FTW. I've got 88 banked in bursts\cash, 82 banked in charms\shards, but I'm putting it off (I hate bursting).

I guess its changed a little, but it really depends on where you hang out. At GWD, i rarely see people below level 100, but when I go to lumby to recharge prayer (or die), I see plenty of lower levels. With summoning, I'd say the average level has shifted ~3-4 levels higher.

*sigh* I preferred the old forums, but I'm not big on BBC so I don't full understand all of the advantages. Still, once its tweaked a little more, I'm sure I'll learn to like it. Except for the smilies, they all look like they've been squeezed by a trash compactor #-o. And I'm somewhat annoyed about loosing 600 or so post count, people say it doesn't matter, but your advice is taken much more seriously with a 2k+ post count.

People still think its faster, and\or want void. Personally, after doing far too many games of the old PC with Heart Unit, I hate it. Void is NOT worth the points, look at all the extra XP you would have gotten by using them on XP instead (Or better yet training somewhere else).

Different worlds sometimes lag for me, especially after an update, but it really doesn't affect my gameplay, and I haven't noticed a large increase. Still annoying though... every now and then I dc, and its always at somewhere dangerous. Lost around 15M from dcing, would have been much much more if I didn't always use a ring of life.

You would reveal that. :| Not really a problem for me, as I really don't enjoy woodcutting. Brings back memories of trying to cut magic trees at level 75 woodcutting with an addy hatchet for hours on end (No one bothered telling me rune was faster and I was still a noob; woodcutting was the first skill I trained when I got membership). Still, I bet some people will be a bit bummed that you told the world...

I went to a quick chat world... And loved it! I'm more of a solitary player myself, so not having people constantly bugging me was a big plus. For one the grand exchange was (mostly) quiet! The only disadvantage is having to turn my private chat off, as there is no good way to explain to your friends about being in a quick chat only world (I think). For the majority of my communication needs, I will have to use regular worlds, but when I'm doing a quiet, single player activity (Soloing GWD\Woodcutting\Barrows\Whatever), its nice to get time to relax and not hear all the chit chat but still get important things.

Guess I'll repost this here, no answer on Zybez. I tried soloing for the first time, and was surprised. The killcount, according to my terrorbird, took 23:30, so no worries there. For my first kill I had some trouble staying out of her range, even on long range, so I chewed through most of my sara brews. On the second kill, I ran out of sara brews while she was close to dead, and foolishly tried to finish her off (I realized how stupid it was and hit my teletab just as she killed me). Luckily I only lost 60k in armor (Accumulator, Crossbow, Glory ammy, lightness boots, ring of life, rune gloves) plus around 80k in remaining potions\bolts; not a problem! I'll hopefully be soloing much, much more from now on. Then I went on the forums and tried to fin da team. I found one fairly quickly, and we all went in. Unfortunately, it appeared that both of my teammates were even more clueless then me... The first one kept getting hit because he didn't bring ANYTHING for run energy (Picture him walking away from here around the room while guzzling brews, getting hit 20+ very rapidly). Between our supplies and his, he lasted for 14 kills. The other guy apparently considered duoing a "waste of supplies", and teled also at 18 kills... As for me, I had only drank 4 sara brews and 4 super restores, so I had been planning on a much longer trip. I really wasn't in the mood for soloing, so I teled also. At least I learned a little about the triangle; the few times we got it set up right it worked very, very well. WE just stood there firing while she spun around. Much of the rest of the time was spent watching my first teammate walk away from her while being hit hard and fast. Oh well, at least it was a good lesson for never letting your run energy down. I need a better place to find a team, but monster hunting clans aren't for me; sometimes I don't do a single GWD trip for several weeks, and then I'll do 8+ trips in a day. On to the question... Would it be worth bringing my Lava Titan when going with a 3 man team? From duoing with my 2nd teammate, it seems fairly obvious that a terrorbird is a better choice when there is only 2 people. I would like to bring a couple of terrorbird pouches (My 2nd one expired in the room), but when I finally have space, use a lava titan. I really didn't need to run much with the 3 team; I didn't need a scroll until the 10th or 11th kill, and then only because I did a horrible job of getting back in the triangle, and spent much of my time running in circles. If I brought some purple sweets, I think I would be fine with a lava titan, and its healing (Twice that of bunyip) seems like it would come in very handy. I'm still too lazy to get 88 summoning, even though I've got the bursts\cash banked... (I hate bursting with a passion) So, I'll probably solo quite a bit while trying to find an experienced team, and if I get a drop I'll chin to 99 range. After bursting I should have around 95 defence, and I may train that to 99 also. I'm getting 90 prayer hopefully soon, and 99 HP will come from bursting, so I should be doing much, much more of Sara GWD. Another question: Is Zamorak Godsword worth it if you are soloing? If that's the case, I may rebuy mine. Finally, is it better to get KC in the main room of the dungen, where I currently get it, or in the 2nd or 3rd room? Sorry about the wall of text, I'm just excited that Sara GWD is easier and funner then I thought it would be.

15-20 mins. I should edit that in the guide. Too many players think "I don't have 83 slayer I can't go to sara gwd". 83 slayer makes little difference. Nice bandos drops as well :o Ok, great... I heard somewhere that it was an hour with 83, and 1.5-2 without, so I always was afraid to go with good stuff and thought that I would spend too much time getting KC and not enough time killing. Off Topic: I'm going for 88 summoning with the cash from bandos, went from 72-80 in the past couple days and have the bursts cash and shards banked for 88. Still get too bored to camp at lobs, so I break it up with GWD trips to help get a SGS. Can't wait for 88, fire titan owns. 28 bandos 4 man team kills without eating is my current record (Including tanking several, got lucky and didn't get hit much). Sadly our tank had to tele at 28 kills and everyone else left, my Titan was still going strong. Hopefully unicorn is even better :pray:

Impressive, really makes me want to try it. Hard to find a good (trustworthy) team, though. For now bandos's ~15M a day is good for me... How long does it take to get 40 KC without 83 slayer?

Himm, I wish there was some way to restore post count. I posted a lot in the last month and a half, and had over 1500 post count :cry: Ah well, big thanks to Tip.IT staff for getting it back up. Will you ever reveal who backstabbed us?

Great! Could you give me some more information? Such as: Payment requested, how often you could suicide, experience, times you usually play, how much you play a day, etc? Feel free to post here or PM me on tip.it. Thanks!

How would a Whip compare to DH for training defense at Ape Atoll Monkey guards? Would the XP be significantly different with a whip then DH at 15 hp?

Yup, according to monster examine its 14. Question answered, mods please lock.

If its between dragon and bandos, bandos is far and away better. Bandos gets more respect, has better stats, and looks better (Personal opinion). If you want defense and don't care about looks\attack bonus, get Torags.

Cutting -> Banking -> Fletching is faster. Cut at Barbarian Assault, fletch at Castle Wars or Lumbridge (1 click bank)

A complete guide to Mithril Dragons can be found on Truthscape here The exact page on ranging is here Hope this helps :D