Makoto_the_Phoenix

It's exciting to see a President that I voted for be elected, but I do think that the media could have laid off of the extra shots of mega-caffeine about it.

That's true. But adjusting prices is only half the battle. Consider if the items that are considered "junk" could be converted to gold, and the player sought to buy a rare on the GE. That trade becomes possible, and the item starts to move. The way I see it, adjusting prices is honestly like fighting fire with a cup of coffee. Not so bad for a small hotspot; horrible if you've got a forest fire.

The prices in that thread are so off horribly wrong that it's embarrassing to even mention it. 640M for a Godsword? Reducing the price of Dragon Claws to 2M? You kidding me?

I don't think it is. The GE only updates prices on items that are traded within it. Rares, 3A and junk are just not traded in the GE, hence the price will never update. This is because that players feel that they can get a better value if they traded their rare and 3A with junk instead, thus compounding the problem. Briante is right when (s)he says that junk trades wreck this even further. If the price can't be updated, then the prices will remain wrong, and people will still use junk trades, further compounding the problem. It's not that we don't understand that the GE is off on the high end items. It's just that you don't understand what else it's affecting.

Yes, right there is an example of coping with a pilejumper. You were obviously better prepared than he was, so he proved to be nothing more than a minor annoyance, and if you weren't really prepared, then you would have had a lot more danger to deal with.

And now, part B to the story. Let's say that you had tried the GE for about ten hours prior to this, and absolutely no one was selling the plate at max value. You notice on the forums that the only place people are selling it are on world 2, and you also have to buy their junk. If you really wanted the plate, then you really didn't have a say in whether or not you were getting someone else's unwanted rubbish. Charge as much as he wants? Yeah, that's fundamentally true, but if they don't charge the right price, then they won't get the trade. Oh, and I have no desire in getting a rare for cheap. I think that discontinued items should be expensive. I just don't like the idea of using rubbish to get there. It doesn't mean that you can charge as much as you like for an item, it simply means that you're fixing a "broken" system with even more problems. 1) How is our logic flawed if we're against junk trading? 2) A lot of people thought that bots weren't ruining the game in any way, too (dropping resource prices, etc), and that turned out to be wrong.

Let's flip the script. Let's say, a month and a half ago, you were interested in a Dragon Platebody. You know its value, and you know its potential value, and a quick check of the GE reveals that it's trading at 14m. You bring that much to a trader, and he offers the plate and some 6M worth of absolute junk that you know you'll never use in your life. Is that fair? Or is this just a false sense of freedom in this market?

Get some books and a C compiler. I think that Borland is freely available for Windows.

Well Lep, I'll agree there, but I've only noticed it in the games with fewer players. In some instances, it'll be the whole first few feet in front of the base has kilns, but no resource spot has one within earshot.

With this implementation, item prices would rise artificially, since an item's selling price does not necessarily reflect its activity in the market. The only way to truly guarantee that players want a certain price is to update it based on completed trades, which it already does. The auto-sell would also cause higher class items to fall like rocks - consider the 100M partyhat again; when the GE updates, that price has fallen to a staggering 85M. Let it continue over a week and that item will be worth 32.05M, and the merchants will be pissed royal. I'm sure that the developers have thought about this. Having a general store or some other specialty shop buy the junk from the GE (and reroute it to the black hole) would be a simpler solution, since even yours can't apply to every single item on the GE (namely the expensive items). The "black hole" ideology would also affect higher priced items, as people would be a little less apprehensive of trading on the GE, and would try to sell their goods there.

Junk trading isn't freedom, either. You may think that you're escaping the barriers of trade, but all you're doing is running into the trap of yet another problem - mounds and mounds of junk replacing cash in everyday trade. If you think it's freedom now, wait a few months down the road when your bank is full of useless crap. then you lend your gs/dclaws and your junk less! I don't lend things out for cash. I usually do it while I'm sleeping anyway, so 8-10 hours isn't a big deal.

Junk trading isn't freedom, either. You may think that you're escaping the barriers of trade, but all you're doing is running into the trap of yet another problem - mounds and mounds of junk replacing cash in everyday trade. If you think it's freedom now, wait a few months down the road when your bank is full of useless crap.

Student [Computer Scientist] here, second year of college. I know a fair bit of Java (worked with it for about a year), working on learning some Python and C/C++. Taken a little detour to learn about bash scripting, to simplify my life on Linux just a touch. Going to be taking an assembly course here in a few days, looking forward to that.

laws are one of the most used runes in the game(after elemental runes)some people train magic only for teleportation spells.Laws should not be quest only items. Not to mention that there is absolutely NO quest associated with getting onto Entrana.

It's not that simple. Setting the prices artificially for items that have absolutely no use is more work than creating some sort of void to toss them into. This way, the items don't inflate to values that don't come close to reflecting its worth.

@carl0dublin: If you think that junk trades are a simple workaround for a broken system, consider that you're only dethroning a tyrant to put another tyrant in its place.

Tweaking the percentages wouldn't help much, if the item doesn't have a market to begin with. Getting rid of the items altogether would be just fine. And you obviously know nothing of the subject that's being talked about.

No player is, if they think about it. Protection Prayers reduce the damage done by any attack by up to 50%, and I'm more than willing to believe that they have food, or have received it as a drop. Pick it up, eat, then run like crazy. Only reason that I think players feel like they're being forced to a fight-or-flight mentality is because they don't remember those oh-so helpful prayers that are still useful in PvP. Fair enough. But I think that you're attempting to place rules in a zone where rules aren't worth the keyboard they're typed on. Even if a player had a right to that drop, they also put themselves at great risk to get that drop, and they should accept the dangers that are everywhere. If someone's HP is low, or they're unarmed, it doesn't matter - they're in a zone in which they've accepted the danger to them, and if they can't cope with that, then they don't belong on PvP worlds.

QFT. Consider that any item, such as whips, Barrows, or Godswords could be considered junk, but their usefulness doesn't allow it to be defined as such. Introduce some NPC that buys the real junk, like unstrung bows or Javelins at a decent price, and the real problem disappears. Don't you realize that using "junk trading" as a means to "escape" the trade limits is nothing more than a delusion? You're not escaping anything; you're burdening yourself or others with absolutely useless junk for them to get rid of.

I seriously lol'd at that. Anyway, in respect to the suggestion I read on the RSoF...to begin with, it's not SO bad. It incorporates most every existing skill into it already, and it doesn't sound like it'd be of the tedium level "BORED TO TEARS", a-la RC and Mining. However, if this skill does make it into the game, which I seriously doubt, much like Sailing, it won't show up until probably the same time next year. Year of tweaks. Fix what we have, not add things. C'mon... :(

Junk trading exists because of the inordinate amount of useless goods a player can produce. Take unstrung longbows, for instance - they have no use beyond getting them strung, and unless it's Yew or Magic, they're not going to get strung. There's also javelins and spears that add onto the fodder. Yeah, I don't like junk trading, and here's what I'd implement to curb it. - Take all javelins, spears, knives and darts out of monster drops. If we need 'em, we know where to find 'em. - Allow shops to buy the inordinate amount of goods that exist as junk from the GE itself, based on market demand for the item. The benefit here is twofold: the item price updates, and the item itself is converted to cash before disappearing from the game altogether. This is mostly intended towards the projectiles and unstrung bows, in which Yew and Magic would not be included. - Reduce the amount of armor that can be bought from shops. Armor up to Mithril is acceptable, but Oziach should only allow the player to buy the plate up to three times, and Scavvo (in the Champion's Guild) should have a limited stock of Rune on hand. I'd like to see some updates that implement this, but for now, we've no choice but to endure the Junk Rule. Just don't participate in it and don't accept items for junk, and that'll help curb it on a minimal scale for now.

RuneScape has always been soft when it came to dying or losing your stuff. Removing the PJers removes the danger associated with PvP, thus giving the "RS is for babies" fanclub more fodder to work with. First of all, the fact that some people wouldn't like something is no reason to avoid doing it. Case in point, the Wilderness updates. Secondly, the danger in PVP should NOT be the PJers.... the danger in PVP should be the PVP ITSELF! So are you arguing that PJing isn't a form of PvP? As far as I know, even if you're using the loosest definitions of PvP, you're still facing another player. And that's the type of danger that we both agree should be present, yes? [/hide] Yes it is technically a form of PVP, but a dubious one at best. I don't think it should be a major part of PVP due to the fact that its sneaky and backhanded. I know they're not breaking a rule or doing anything wrong, but at one time, lurers were said not to be doing anything wrong, by a Jagex mod even. Okay, to begin with, you got me with the whole "unpopularity doesn't mean update" bit. Didn't know if that was implied, but there's no counterargument to that. Second, PJing isn't a major part of PvP, since not everyone has either the opportunity or desire to PJ another person. When it comes to combat, being sneaky and backhanded are part of some PKers strategies, and it's probably the only way that a significantly lower level can defeat a significantly high level at Fist of Guthix. Back when I was active on my Black pure, the "sneaky and underhanded" stunt was to immediately switch to a R2H if your opponent was low health to deliver an effective KO to them. No doubt that practice is still in effect, and many players don't really consider it so bad. Lastly, you use an invalid comparison. Luring was debated so strongly because it fell in that fuzzy "Item Scamming" rule at the time. Jagex mods have also had a bad history of one person saying what the other person was contradicting, too. It can't be seen as comparable to Luring or in the same boat since the dangers are not only implied, but made extremely obvious to you everywhere you look - doesn't matter if you're unarmed, have some D Claws, or are decked out in full Bandos - danger is everywhere.

RuneScape has always been soft when it came to dying or losing your stuff. Removing the PJers removes the danger associated with PvP, thus giving the "RS is for babies" fanclub more fodder to work with. First of all, the fact that some people wouldn't like something is no reason to avoid doing it. Case in point, the Wilderness updates. Secondly, the danger in PVP should NOT be the PJers.... the danger in PVP should be the PVP ITSELF! So are you arguing that PJing isn't a form of PvP? As far as I know, even if you're using the loosest definitions of PvP, you're still facing another player. And that's the type of danger that we both agree should be present, yes?

Here's the way I see it: Both capes are going to take inordinate amounts of time, and in many cases, some quests will have to be completed in order to either start leveling (Summoning/Herblore) or maximize the potential of a skill (Smithing > Phasmatys, Firemaking > Shades of Mort'ton or All Fired Up, Mining > Between a Rock or Enkhara's Lament). Skill capes will take between 2 and 3 times longer than a Quest Cape [at first], as gathering the materials for a 99 is time consuming, as is processing them. You can bank whatever level you want, but you still have to process it - you can't just "bank" a Quest Cape. Any Quest Cape holder right now is instantly disqualified from that cape if a new Quest comes out, thus meaning more work to be done. I'd probably respect the Skill Capes more, because while Quests are difficult, they're not nearly as tedious as leveling any skill out there, including Cooking or Fletching.

RuneScape has always been soft when it came to dying or losing your stuff. Removing the PJers removes the danger associated with PvP, thus giving the "RS is for babies" fanclub more fodder to work with. Which is why it should STOP being "anything goes". You may be fine with any method of killing another player no matter how low and cheap. Believe it or not, some players don't like it when they work hard to get a kill worth quite a lot only for a 1-iteming coward with a dds to jump out and kill you with one spec. I'm against calling others "def noobs, prayer noobs, and eaters" because those are COMBAT tactics. Pjing isn't combat. It's one low player jumping on top of a much stronger player at low hp. Why should anyone stop complaining? If they want a change, they can speak up about it. They have every much of a right to voice their opinion as you do. If Jagex dislikes the idea then I guess it will never change. But I don't think they said anything about it yet, so why should we stop? Whoa, stop right there. If you don't want it "anything goes", take your scaredy-[wagon] back to the Duel Arena. It's all about risk v. reward in PvP, old Wild, and Bounty Hunter. "Anything goes" is about as high risk as you can get. That's the reason why I admire PvP to a degree -- you can't arbitrarily make rules on how to fight someone just because you want to keep your whip. While I'll admit that PJing is at the same honor level as the old (and new) RC PKers, it doesn't make it wrong to do it, and it doesn't mean that the person is low. It simply means that there is an ever-present danger when PKing, and to be frank, I wouldn't have PKing any other way. I don't really PvP often, but the experiences from my pures have taught me that you can't just say that such-and-such a style of PvP combat is wrong because it's doing this against me, or against honor. There is no honor in PvP. Kill or be killed.