Makoto_the_Phoenix

What surprises me most about this update is that people actually believe that one click will slow them down. One click translates roughly to two seconds, depending on your connection. If you're runecrafting several hundred-thousand runes (doesn't really matter which kind) through the Abyss, you're going to be spending several WEEKS on this. I don't think that two seconds is going to affect anything in terms of weeks.

...So in short, your plan to incur attention for an actual update is to go on a RuneScape hiatus instead of just paying the $5? Sure, freeplay is an important part of the fanbase, yes; but it isn't the part that pays the majority of the bills. They deserve an update here and there, but if you're going to walk out the door and strike instead of becoming Members, then what do you really deserve?

We members honestly do have a lot going on for ourselves, not to mention weekly updates, forum access and other things. Why shouldn't freeplay be able to get a skill cape that they earned hands down on freeplay? (No, I don't just pay members for skill capes. That'd be a waste of money.)

Why shouldn't they? Some of the work that they do on freeplay to level up those skills is exponentially harder than the work anyone on members would ever have to do. If they did make it freeplay, you wouldn't hear me complain about it one bit.

Warning: I'm going to get preachy. Stop reading here if you don't want to listen to a sermon. I don't think I'd utter nary whimper nor whine if all rares were dropped, alchemized or destroyed by some other means. It's unethical as is to be trading entire game earnings of a player for ONE item anyway, nor do I think it is ethical that thousands of players lucked out on these drops and are now hoarding them for value. Kind of seems really jacked up to the guy that didn't come online until that happened... I also feel that this causes a rift between player "classes". Most people that played in Classic would agree that 'wealthy' meant having at least 750K in their bank and a combat set of Rune on free. Nowadays, you're considered very poor if you have just that in your bank, anywhere. After the partyhat economy exploded after RS2 release, things became really strange...prices went up higher than they ever should have been, not for a fun and novelty item. I guess you could say that I do think it is acceptable. No sense in letting one group of very lucky players hoard every ounce of wealth, now does it?

Do you have the book? It is official. It was produced by Jagex, they are the copyright holder. And they are marketing it to kids and pre-teens. No, I don't have the book. I'd consider it a waste of money since this is an online game, and 99% of its information can easily be found online... And as another person pointed out, it's not an official copy. That someone else has indeed made books for other games. It's a lot more than a "handful". It's a lot less than you think. Honestly. Out of an average 1,000 players on any given server, only 7-9% of them are actually acting up. And out of that 7-9%, at least 80% of them are punished. Don't dismiss the entire community by just a handful of players -- that's akin to throwing the entire wheat harvest away because of the chaff. The player moderators were mentioned only peripherally. My main point was not criticizing them but simply pointing out that they are effectively powerless. Jagex needs to manage its own game, not push the job off on players who can't do much of anything anyway. Priority report queries, the ability to chat directly with Jagex staff, muting priviledges...I think that these are a bit more powerful than the normal player, don't you think? Sure, more should live up to the title of Player Moderator, but it's not like they're not entirely doing their job. I refer you to the previous statement of throwing the harvest away because of the chaff... Well, it's only been resulting in people getting scammed for what, 10 months now? In C, have you ever tried to maintenance (and I'm estimating here -- Andrew did say once that there were over 1 million lines of code in the game) anywhere from 25,000 to 45,000 lines of code? And out of that, at least 60% is in Java? Have you ever taken that kind of mammoth project on before? If you have you'd know how hard it would be to tackle, let alone finish. Don't think that they can magically point to line 7786 of their script and say, "Oh! That bug has been fixed!"; they have to rewrite, compile, run, test, analyze, rewrite, compile, run, test... Relevance? Plenty. Construction/Carpentry was the largest update ever done to RS (the reason behind RS2 and RS2 v.1.1, or that little under-the-hood update about a month before release), and it's still a major work in progress. Had you known a time hierarchy, then perhaps you'd have some sort of idea how hard it would be to manage it. They have honestly been planning that skill since Classic! How much work does it take to post an announcement warning people not to take expensive items into others' houses -- compared to writing an Easter event or overhauling the poll system? Don't dodge the question. I asked if you had any idea how complex that module was to maintain. My guess, since you did beg this question, would be that you don't. It mostly boils down to common sense on the valuables as well -- don't take what you can't lose. Why should Jagex have to baby you about that? Oh. Before I forget -- managing Java or C++ modules is something totally different from managing a CGI poll on the website. One of them is significantly easier. Only regular C. Again -- relevance? Am I taking in 50 million clams a year and telling people that I value stopping scams as a priority? The relevance is that if you knew anything about these two languages, you'd understand how complex they can get -- imagine something as complex as over a million lines to manage and maintain. They honestly are trying to stop some scams; bugs are another issue. For the most part, they've upheld their part of the deal with scamming and what-not. Bugs are another factor altogether, but like I said, that massive module of code that is involved with other parts of the game...now that'll take a while to fix. Sit tight and don't chastise them if you don't know what they have to put up with. I've reported many myself. Others I know have been reporting them for months. You're being very loyal with these apologetics, but you don't have the facts on your side. Let's see what facts you have. "Do something". Such as? Sorry, but I did do something -- I did more than anyone else I know ever has. ~q Don't toot your own horn -- you're just nitpicking right now. Also, from what I can tell, you're not really doing a very decent job at it. ------ One more thing, why should Jagex really have to baby their members? Gambling, thieving, death, and lying...you honestly make it sound like it's a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah when it's nothing that a quick tap of the Report Abuse button can't fix. If you honestly feel so strongly about these things, why don't you pick up a game where such elements don't exist? Besides that, if the parents of the younger children really didn't want their kids messing with this, they wouldn't go any further with it and would definitely block the site out. Quit putting the parental responsibilities on Jagex and put them where they belong.

For as long as money and greed exist; for as long as hatred and lust thrive; for as long as dark desires and corruption are known in this game, luring will forever continue. Let's just hope that those that DO practice this meet their justified end in this community.

I want the ears that were promised to me on that fateful Easter in 2003 when I missed it by less than two hours that day.

It's definitely an interesting change. I remember that the higher levels were ranting on and on that the poll system didn't convey how they really felt, so this is a breath of fresh air. Freeplayers get to take part in this, too! Diplomacy wins after all.

I've noticed that this author has also released part 2 of his series. http://tomshardware.co.uk/2007/04/02/ru ... index.html At first I thought it'd be a productive (while macabre) read into what RS was from his eyes, but much of it seemed to be a fair bit of dribble. On the second page, the author clearly states that this book is by Jagex LTD. It's really not an official copy, and it's not even close to complete from what I've heard -- mostly goes over freeplay and things that 90% of the players didn't already know. I want to know how you can take that source and deem it as credible. Since I can see that this source did not come from Jagex themselves, why would anything that they say be taken literally? (Okay, so the book says the game's for all ages. So what?) On that subject, sure kids do need to be worried, but from what I can see you're overtaxing it. A kid and their parents do need to be aware of what they're getting into, but you make it seem like murder, rape and pillaging are taking place all over the game when it's honestly just a handful of misbehaving children. Turn off the flamethrower and take the community with a grain of salt. Same thing with the Player Moderator subject. I'll somewhat agree with you on the Jagex Moderator issue -- their presence isn't felt much, and I've only seen about three in four years of playing -- but the player moderators that you say are not setting the example are the select minority -- and the ones that are quite severe on the matter are usually terminated as well. I'm sure that Jagex is working on a way to resolve the Customer Support issues. And I'm also sure that they're trying to work on that Construction bug. But, I have to ask you a couple of questions: 1. Do you know how long it took for them to get Construction/Carpentry done in the first place? 2. Do you know how complex that module alone is to maintain, let alone build? 3. Do you have *any* experience with programming Java and/or C++? If you knew the answers, then you would see why it's taking quite a while to fix. They had to rip up their first engine (which was a main catalyst for making RS2 in the first place), test and retest, and even now some of their modules are broken, many badly than others. But you can't really complain that they're not getting fixed, they're just taking a lot longer than I'm sure that even they would like or agree with. Instead of nitpicking, how about you report some of these bugs so that development could get to fixing them faster? And don't try to play it off like, "Oh they're well known, so why don't they know?". They have other jobs in different parts of the game too, you know. Take this article (and my opinion) with a grain of salt. Instead of complaining that not much is being done, take the active side and do something about it instead of nitpick and moan.

This is actually an interesting move. They really outdid themselves. I wonder if you talk in leet, will it go back the other way?

Staking and PKing deliberately makes other players have less so you can have more. There is a difference between doing the legitimately and doing taking items from people and lying to take items from people. Honestly, I can't see how anybody can form an argument against luring. Do people of today really have that warped of a view on morality? That its ok, in anything, game or not, to lie and cheat people out of stuff? It's fine if you wanna argue you're silly little "loop holes" in the rules but its just wrong and really sad that the only way you can enjoy this game is to prey off other players who may not know the situation they are getting into. You should be ashamed. I say it's about time to be listening to Wakka now. Simply put, your argument lost a lot of steam when you said "I agree with the rule changes, but I don't believe that *insert lure here* is illegal." Don't waffle on the topic; you're either okay with the changes or you're not. Besides that, it doesn't really look like half the posts you've made here are supporting whether or not you support or are against the topic. The alleged "five or six" people on this thread have made their points to you as crystal clear as could be. Will yours become the same too? Reread page 4. Very top. I believe Pizzalord even highlit the best part for you. I'm done with this thread. I sure hope that you'll finally realize that this isn't the best topic to make a valiant defense for.

Mmm....I don't think you quite understood me. And it doesn't have to be by a conventional lure; I said anywhere against your better judgment. It's obviously in your better judgment to avoid the Wilderness and those lure tactics, but what about slayer monster lure tactics (the most of which being at Abberants)? If you didn't know any better (and I'm not saying you don't), you would be forced there against your better judgment. Same principle applies to lures. Reread my first post and I hope that you can get the point that I was going for.

Do you always trust complete strangers? First of all, let me tell you that a lure is still a lure. Doesn't matter whether or not they are being drawn into the wilderness, they're being drawn somewhere against their better judgment. I want you to justify how that could possibly ever be fair -- would you like it if you were drawn to a certain location against your better judgment and then have your hard-earned RS items taken away? (So what if they're pixels? They earned them, dammit.) Now onto this point of trusting complete strangers -- yes, there is a mutual trust between two people when a trade is conducted. This entails that each party will uphold their ends of the agreed trade parameters (price, item, etc). By luring someone into the Wilderness you have indeed violated that trust. I think you've shot yourself in the foot now -- anything beyond this means that you're only trying to ignore the obvious. Lure is lure. Doesn't matter if you drop something in the wild in an attempt to bring them out, doesn't matter if they're drawn in by some bug, doesn't matter if they are left in the desert to die. It is not in the spirit of the game, it should not be permitted to continue, and no one should defend any variation thereof.

No, the lure tactic preys on those who are not smart enough to use common sense. All the lurer does is bring the person to the spot. The victim does the rest on their own. So just because they don't know any better makes it okay? No, it does not. Besides, who wouldn't run up to an item that they thought had value? It's like dangling a bag full of candy in front of a baby, then taking it from them (and punishing them for their negligence!). Don't bother posting here again your posts are idiotic and pointless. The Jojo lure. The lure that they drop money in the wild and then the victim runs up to take it, then they are barraged to death, is not illegal. We are not forcing anyone into the wild. It's that simple. And no one can prove we aren't going to drop other items. It's not possible. Let justice be done on all unscrupulous lurers that dare use these tactics. A lure is a lure, no matter what angle you try and look at it. No, the community was destroyed when things like this went unpunished. Stubborn? I beg to differ.

:roll: Shut the hell up and quit whining, don't fall for luring and it isn't a problem.. I've never fallen for a luring scam before. And even if I didn't fall for it, there's probably someone else that will. If you can't see that this is a positive move for restoring the community, then you're the one that needs to stop crying. It's making your vision all blurry.

You're going to have to forgive this next statement, but... HELL NO, luring shouldn't be legalized again. Luring was never an honest way of playing the game anyway. What they are doing is setting someone up for a trap in the attempt to gain valuable items. The person that was the victim leaps at the opportunity to gain a valuable item for significantly less than what it was worth. Thus, the lure tactic preys on those who are not educated in valuable items. I remember that I said that it was the players' fault for being lured. I now recant that statement. It is the fault of the lurer for leading the player on -- a direct violation of rule 2. Just because they don't know doesn't make it right. (I believe someone said something about leaving a laptop unattended doesn't justify someone stealing it. While this is prone to happen, it's a true point -- it's their fault for leaving it unattended, but ultimately the thief gets punished.) I didn't quite understand why it was never enforced, though. If anyone, and I mean anyone still thinks that luring should be an acceptable practice, just leave the RuneScape communities forever. We don't need your burden, and we sure could use the server space.

This article does echo a lot of what's going on here. For those of us that simply don't want to believe it, then don't. But much of what the author of the editorial said is somewhat true. Luring isn't punishable, Members is somewhat an immature place, and freeplay is ten times that. But let me get down to the nitty gritty and actually make a point instead of a three-liner which I normally do in rants! It's been a while. First of all, before I even start this, let me tell you that the article (and my post, for that matter) are opinions, not the Magna Carta. Much of what was said there is neither true nor false; just a representation of how this person felt. Where it becomes true is how a group of people interpret the opinion, and/or if there is actually hard evidence proving that these claims are true. In-Game Gambling Yeah, this is true to an extent. Barbarian Assault lets you gamble your items. You have to wager in two various and different games in two separate quests. You can stake your items and glory in Duel Arena. Why doesn't Jagex cover this up or change the way it's done? My question is: why should they? Every game that I know of actually does in some shape, form or fashion, desensitize gambling to the point where it is a side-effect of the game, but albeit on a much smaller level. Each and every person has the option not to participate in these functions (but if you really wanted that quest cape you would be forced to blank it out). Don't make it seem like Jagex is condoning or promoting gambling. Maturity, Adolescence and Relationships I agree that you should be over a certain age to play RuneScape. You should probably be over 13 to really appreciate the community. While I'll agree that most players are immature and just plain dumb, it's neither my place nor anyones to place an age on them. "Oh, they act immature so they're probably nine." "What a loser. He's a no-lifer who's only fifteen. Bet he doesn't have a girlfriend either." You don't really need to classify anyone into those groups at all. Who's to say that the immature person isn't in their adult years, or the "no-lifer" suffered an accident to the extent that RuneScape is all that he has to do for the next six to eight weeks? I can tell you four things that are wrong with it: 1. You are denying yourself contact with your fellow friends and family. Who cares if you have fun online? Memories with your family last forever and are not subject to a Trojan or Keylogger ruining them. 2. You are focusing much of your energies and time into RuneScape and not studying. This has caused many of my friends (whom of which I will never name) to flunk straight out of High School. What glory is there having 99s and not having a High School Diploma? 3. You are ten times more paranoid about your computer security than the CIA, and you are much more likely to be devastated by a keylogger or virus attack than the normal user. (Albeit, people that don't trust Linux-based OS's are much more likely to get a Trojan, it doesn't mean that no one is invulnerable to the probability of it.) 4. People outside of the game respect you far less. No one really gives any care about a 99 you earned or if you spent weeks and months earning that Dragon Chain; people only care about your attitude toward the goal that they want you to achieve. This is very true in prospective interviews; I've seen this (no lie) associates' resumes that they actually did a goal in some online fantasy game and are calling that a skill. (No, I will not say whether or not he got the job; that's for your imagination to figure out.) It is true to some extent that males are likely to be attracted to a female avatar than males. That doesn't mean that they don't know the lady in real life or that they don't have a social life period (because clearly, they do). It isn't our place to rule out that they don't know the lady in real life or that they are some lonely desperate soul looking for love online. It's not anyone's judgment call. Period. Sorry I just thought that was downright hilarious. /me nods in agreement The game also has its own checks and balances to ensure that most of this never happens. Don't you see that there really isn't anything stopping luring? Most reports of the above are usually either unpunished or punished on a minor scale. Parental Involvement, Online Supervision and Age I'm of adult age; I no longer need anyone to monitor my actions online. Heck, I'm so busy with things that I have to do outside of the game that I'll probably never find time for it again. But that's neither here nor there; I agree wholeheartedly with the fact that parents do need to know what their children are getting into. Some of it can turn tragic and the parents should be there monitoring every step. Keep in mind that the Jagex ToS also states that parents are encouraged to play with their kids, not just let them sign up and leave them to their own devices. What kind of parent would just let a kid go out into the game like that if they don't *really* know what they're getting into? You bring about an extreme variable into the equation: a promiscuous 12 year old doing things that no parent would ever permit. Tell me, what the hell does that have to do with anything? That's more of a matter for Social Services than this forum, in my opinion. None of your Member friends are below thirteen? Yeah, that's a really accurate representation, given that your list can only hold 200 people, and that all 200 people are online at the same time, and that you talk with all 200 people on a regular basis... For those that thing player moderators are an important or secure presence in game: You are wrong. They provide no more security for me online than my baseball bat would during an avalanche. Jagex as a Company DISCLAIMER: These are opinions, not libel. Thanks. Jagex, as most other companies, has a responsibility to earn as much money as possible. What they do with this money is practically up to them -- spend it on workers, resources, Customer Service, various aspects of the game, whatever they want. I can believe only to an extent that Jagex is slightly more concerned with gaining money than they are with improving Customer Service. But then again I can't really say; the last time I reported someone for item scamming was back in January and I haven't found out what happened to them or if that report ever got through. I realize that Customer Service needs some much needed T.L.C. And anyone can definitely say that -- after all, what are we paying for? ------ I'm going to go ahead and cut this post to a short close. Much of what was said here is either reiteration or reinterpreted opinion -- it's up to each and every one of us how we want to interpret it. Besides that, there isn't anything wrong with having both sides of an issue presented before the consumer. I'd prefer it if a more thorough investigation was conducted instead of writing opinions shared by the masses, but it is still a good read.

I still remember the city. I also plan to travel there frequently. Your test fails. :)

I could tell you that this would make it into the "Update of the Decade" books for me.

Well, my first comment was about waiting for a high level update. Sorry that the irony flew over your head. Next, do you know what it was like to train on RSC? You know, before Pest Control, Slayer, not having to kill your opponent to gain experience, Rangers taking your kill, that sort of thing? If you were lucky you could max 40K experience an hour. Nowadays it's 65-90K an hour if you know where to go. I've reiterated that it's always going to be respect that draws disagreement between PC and the conventional way I train. It may be a misunderstanding between you and I, I can't tell. But I still feel that players just need a little respect between one another. I think we're on the same page with your last line. You're right when they say longer-term players are being taken for granted. Again, it all boils down to whether or not they respected the way things were, and whether or not we can respect the new change brought by PC. But I sure won't respect anyone who has a "I have 99s and you don't" mentality. EDIT: Thank you for repeating another way I feel.

Um, that is Jagex's fault...maybe Jagex should introduce higher level updates? I don't have the kind of patience to be waiting until April 2009, you know... In retrospect, it's not that PC actually ruined the game by making more high levels (if you define high level by combat alone; I think it's a mix of combat and non-combat skills personally), it's the mindset that's been set into most PC players. "I can get 99s in a month where it takes you five! Don't you have a life?"

I couldn't care less. All Monday mornings mean to me is I have another forced day at the University to spend.

First of all, most PC high levels that I have talked to aren't typically the people that I'd want to hang out with or talk to much longer than thirty seconds ingame. I don't know how else to put it, but some of them are quite arrogant about their levels. I can't find it right this moment, but a friend of mine took a picture of just how arrogant higher levels are. If I find it I'll edit it in. Not going to say that this is directly tied into PC, but if you think about it, those that have been here for more than 2 years simply know better than to say "I PWN J00 AND U CNT DU NUFFIN ABUT IT". How do you see knowledge of RuneScape as an advantage? Information about RuneScape is made freely and publicly available, 24/7. I don't quite see it as an advantage since most people would ask the question of "Where did you get that cape" or "where did you get those robes" or "how much is full Verac?". It doesn't take more than two minutes to figure those things out, and they expect me to do the same just for them. Normally I'm a patient person, but I can't be bothered to help everyone that asks the same doggone question every thirty seconds. It's not about levels or knowledge or anything like that. It's about respect. I don't believe that levels are anything of a respectable matter, but it's the person's demeanor that makes me respect them. Anyone that tells me that they have all 99 combat stats in x number of months shows me that they don't respect the fact that I've chosen my path of training.

RS in five years? A faint memory. Very faint. So faint that it's barely worth remembering. I can actually believe that RuneScape is not going to survive much longer at the rate it is currently going, and this is how: 1. Higher levels have ranted for something like a year or more for updates. Only recently have they received a sticky for them to play in. That eventually was split off into five stickies, and one post in General to discuss high level problems and just lament about the nonsense that high levels have to suffer; the other five making attempts to simplify and hopefully expedite the update process. Unfortunately, the stickies are usually bogged down with nonsensical updates and the "Asterisk Sticky" only makes things worse with people thinking that a horse is a high level update. Lord have mercy. 2. Pest Control (as much as I hate it) has brought tens of thousands of players to the zenith of the combat parts of RuneScape. There is virtually no point for them to slay since they have high combat stats or their stats are maxed out. There is no point for them to skill since most find skilling quite dull and counterproductive. All that would be left for them to do is to either go into the Wilderness or leave the game. 3. Updates continually cater to the lower end of members. It's very seldom and once in a blue moon that you'll find something that a high level feels like doing more than once. Or, it's even rarer to find something that provides a challenge to the higher leveled skills in either quests or minigames. 4. Lack of politeness and/or common sense ingame and when talking with others is not only absent, but is negatively affecting the RuneScape community. Some people just don't know any better, and strangely enough they are the ones that are tormented, either by scammers, lurers or the threat of "hackers". 5. RuneScape Classic (the real RuneScape) is DEAD. I can still wander about there and find a lot of the politeness that I need to while ingame there, but doing things over there is not only impractical, there's no recognition for it. Well there you have it. Hope you can see my side of things, since I really don't see the situation improving in the next six months.