Zepheras

Slayer can exist, and pretty much existed without a point system. You don't trade points for abyssal whips and granite mauls either; the abyssal demon and gargoyles drop them. 10 bucks to whoever can guess which monster drops which item. :rolleyes: If Dungeoneering can get rid of the token system, such that I loot/obtain/earn my rewards off opening difficult rooms, passing complex puzzles, defeating and looting boss monsters, then I won't have THAT much to say about it. If non-overpowering resources such as potions, fish, summoning pouches that fills a certain gap in their respective skill can be brought out of the dungeon in limited quantity per trip(or even become tradeable), such that I contribute to other skills as a Dungeoneer, even better.

Give them a break man. I mean, they only had two years. If they had to rush it a little I'm okay with it. :thumbup: Everything also looks almost overloaded with detail. I think they tried a little too hard with the graphics and overshot things a bit. :P Well, Kril is Zamorakian general. This dungeon is about a mahjarrat who's a Zamorakian supporter. I bet Kash's last name is Tsutsaroth.

Dig up 2nd age armour parts, ancient seeds, new ores, fossilised burgers, giant dragon bones......yea, I'll take that, even if the armour requires a continous repair cost. At least it makes sense. Well, all they need to do is kill all the NPCs and monsters in the dungeon that we have now, and start filling it up with sand. :thumbup: Let's not waste the graphics, just replace the existing, crappy looking fish and armour etc with the respective new design.

Off-topic but, I wonder if my username, zepheras, rings any bell to you? :huh:

So what, there are 3 ways to go to the dungeon peninsula (and the only positive thing about the many portals is not that you are going IN with them, but the going OUT option). You can view the ring as a teleport spell and the 2 other ways as portals ... I don't see the difference between limited house space and limited dungeoneering space ... I build a house that people can visit with the skill. I don't trade tokens for that table, or that bed, or that shelf.... All other skills: Training skill -> Skill levels -> Resource, product or abilities. Dungeoneering: Training skill using a non-tradeable version of items already existing in the game -> Skill levels -> EXP calculating machine -> Tokens -> Unrelated items to the dungeons or the monsters. If I have it my way, those reward items, your so-called product of the skill Dungeoneering could have been added to the game in one way or another. A new boss to drop the level 80 combat items. A few new slayer monsters to drop the amulets and bow enhancer. A new minigame involving mining to give the coal bag. A farming D&D to give the scroll of life. And they would make much better sense as well. Now, try giving fish through woodcutting, or building a house using mining. If you ask me, the way something is implemented is as important as what that something does on its own. Take the re-colouring of inifinity robes and whips. Which one has more bang, incorporating the concept of magic and elemental colours, or just attaching the ability to colour the item through an unrelated minigame?

There is a much better way to implement this. Say, you want the coal bag. We have a coal-eating behemoth as a boss. You kill, the carcass remains on the ground. You harvest either a thick or thin behemoth hide from it. The carcass disappears when every member of the team harvest once. The bag takes 30 thick hides, 20 thin hides (or basically a number such that you have about enough hide by the time you have enough dungeoneering EXP for the next boss), and level 30 crafting to craft, for 10k crafting EXP. The bag's non-tradeable.

I am relieved that I can take the chair I constructed to Varrock and sit on it near the fountain, or bank the said chair ... ooooh wait .. snap! Not every skill benefits has to be physical. You train agility in a specific area, but once out you use your levels earned to use shortcuts littered around the game and save time, or even access certain features. Your whole POH in construction is a direct product of the skill that you can enjoy, utilise not only by yourself but other friends as well.

If that's all you require for something to be considered a skill, then I guess Dungeoneering qualifies. So do Barbarian Assault, Stealing Creation and Fist of Guthix. And half the quests too. It's nice to have low standards. What qualifies Construction to be a skill? Your POH is an isolated world. It has the following effects on the game: Tele tabs Portals Guilded altar A bank designed for your costumes A bank for your pets Where is this long list of construction benefits? It seems Dung already has more benefits than a skill that was added a long time ago. I think I need a better example. Take fish flingers for example. As a D&D, great. People are thinking how great it would be if the whole fishing skill is trained this way, and I think it's possible as well. But do you think it makes sense if you caught 100 bass in the game and don't bring the 100 bass you caught home, but instead you get points for your performance, tokens, and at the end of the day, 10 sharks (knowing full well that there's no sharks in the activity) because of some measuring parameters and translation process? 10 kinds of ores, 30 sets of armours, 50 summoning beasts, 10 hunter animals, 5 slayer beasts.....translating into TWENTY items that you don't even recognise. All the time spent on the graphical design and item replacement, just to prevent trading between the two worlds. I'm looking for a skill where I can say, "Hey, I'm a dungeoneer, and I brought you some resources you can use. I'm also showing you this untradeable bonecrusher that I got off this badass looking, bone-crushing monster at level 57 dungeon. I'm playing a part of the community as a dungeoneer", not "Go through dungeon, get out, trade tokens for personal benefits". What qualifies Construction to be NOT a skill If construction involves new untradeable logs that you know are just oak and teak logs in disguise, and If POH does not allow tablets to be brought out of the house (or does not even have teletab making lecturn), but instead they come up with a system to translate the time and effort spent to build the house into tokens to trade for your teletab, or some item that boost your bone EXP by 3.5 times, without even the altar room or study room feature, yea, that would be as bad as this skill.

Bonegrinder offers nothing to prayer Gem bag and coal bag offer nothing to mining. Law and nature staves offer nothing to magic. The farming scroll offers nothing to farming Tome of frost offers nothing to magic Anti poison totem offers nothing to combat And all of the rest of the combat weapons and armor have no bearing on gameplay outside of the dungeon. But in reality, all of these items are ONLY useful outside of the dungeon. Your argument is just a blatant lie. All of these rewards are going to affect the world outside of dungeoneering. You are just looking at facts and dismissing them. Why? By your definition, since Stealing Creation 'gives' something to almost every skill, it is legit enough to be a Claying skill. Reason: It 'gives' SC tools. You get points off it. The point is, just because the process has a by-product used in another, it means that both processes are linked. The short answer is, yes. It is about making sense. Why does fletching requires logs and knife, and not trading logs for tokens, and then trading some tokens for yew longbows and some tokens for fletching EXP?

Why does it have to give back something to Hunter? Does Construction let you do more Fishing? Does agility let you do more firemaking? Does agility lets you directly use your agile abilities in other areas beyond the agility course? Does construction create affect your gameplay around RuneScape? Where did your teletabs come from? How has your travelling, prayer training changed because of some direct features of Construction? Construction, although pretty cosmetic in the game, has an impact on other skills as well. Now my question: Your team of 4 just spent 4 hours of dungeoneering, and you want to end the trip. Does smuggling some of the unique dungeon items, limited by variety and quantity, but increasing as you proceed, hurts the game? Would incorporating the rewards as part of the dungeon, such as harvesting materials off boss monsters to create the rewards be a more illogical idea than earning some imaginary tokens and trading them for rewards off a NPC?

You don't get the point, as long as the skill doesn't give something back to other skills, such as allowing players to smuggle a limited quantity of dungeon resources out for training and use above ground, it doesn't matter if there's 10 more of such dungeons, or an expansion of the 'reward' list. To use an analogy, let's say smithing is added to the game when it just started. Instead of just using the ores found in the game to smith, gain XP add the products to the game, you get teleported to an instanced smithing dungeon, collect fanciful looking ores, make fanciful looking items, end the trip, and a NPC tells you how your 'performance' earns you tokens, which you trade tons for a single rune berserker shield.

Doesn't PVP worlds prevent you from keeping non-tradeable items on death?

You should, you know, try the skill out, or at least read the FAQ on Dungeoneering in the knowledge base...... :mellow: The actual rewards are found here: http://www.runescape.com/c=GpvwBygLic4/kbase/guid/dungeoneering_rewards Of which, the high level melee rewards would be three level 80 weapons, and a level 80 shield.

I don't think you people understand. Vesta longsword is currently 14m (it was 17-18m at one point I remember). It lasts 60 minutes of combat and is not resellable. Chaotic longsword costs 2m to recharge and doesnt disappear so is resellable after buying, and has better stats than a vesta longsword. It also lasts 10 hours compared to 60 minutes. Why wouldn't people use this? If you die and lose the vesta longsword, you go and buy another for 14 mil. If you die and lose the chaotic longsword, you go back to the dungeon and grind for god knows how long. And I don't think we're talking about a 2 hour trip to Jad.

You shouldn't underestimate the simplicity of a lot of people. A lot of people WERE judging summoning on the first few days it came out with people only using the first 40 lvls or so. The same is happening here. Just don't take them too seriously and get a good level yourself, then judge it. The difference between summoning and dungeoneering is, one has a overall major impact on the normal gameplay of RuneScape, the other is a mini-runescape within runescape that adds no value to the gameplay the moment you step out of the dungeon boundaries, except the 'rewards' that could have well been added to the game in one way or another.

Well, I'm thinking of a cartwheel that accompanies you at every level, where you store resources like sara brew and rocktails of unlimited quantity per item type, as well as tools like pickaxes, hammers, armours, such that you can replenish your stock before the start of each level. At the same time, litter the dungeon with fixed quantity of things like a 4-rannar patch, 10-monkfish fishing spot..... In short, integrate what you have in the game into the dungeon, to break down the no-trade barrier between the new skill and the outside world. But considering that Jagex already wasted so much time re-creating those decent looking items that are functionless out of the context of the skill, what's the probability of my idea taking place? :?

As much as you may dislike the skill, I do not think there is any deny in how much work Jagex has put in this. Second of all why is the lack of training option a problem? There are different ways you can do it, you can rush them or attempt to get every bonus multipliers, whichever you like. I can't imagine all the time wasted to re-create a non-tradeable version of almost every single item in the game just to prevent 'imbalance', to be honest. Not to mention, raiding-like features of WoW is the endgame for every player, yet for this skill you're working your [wagon] off for what, level 80 gear and a few extra total levels? An oppotunity that could create a long lasting endgame content in RuneScape, wasted. I think I'm well aware of what the later parts of the dungeon entail. Harder monsters, better armour, food, potion....you can find the list in the Knowledge base. Even the rewards have been revealed.

Fourth's wrong. It's Stealing Creation but labelled as a skill.

This pretty much hits the nail on the head. I think a lot of oldtimers are going to quit after seeing this -- probably myself included. Not out of outrage or anger, just because it is crystal clear that Jagex is taking RS in a direction very far from why many of us used to play it. The rewards from this "skill" are powerful enough that you'll be at a significant disadvantage if you don't get them, but the idea of spending several hundred hours in that hellhole -- especially "teamed" with groups of random morons -- is far more terrifying than any boss. I haven't tried it yet, but is it really that bad? I assume I'll never like some skills, but a skill combining every skills should appeal to me. You will enjoy most of the elements. There's integration of high level skills within the boundaries of the dungeon, high level monsters, teamplay and/or solo play. However, to me it feels like having a beautiful dream and then returning to reality with some lackluster rewards compared to what you saw in the dream. You're looking at a replica of almost every skill and skill resources within this one single skill, when they can just use the resources we had, from potions to food to armour. You're looking at a list of over 500 new items easily, some filling existing level gaps, some beyond the best of what we have, but only within the dungeon. You're looking at this mini-underground RuneScape world, that brings the real RuneScape world a few new level 80 gear that has nothing to do with what you saw and used in the dungeon. I think what Jagex did was, they squeezed the actual RuneScape game under a compressor, replicated the compressed form, buried the mini replica underground, and from there a teeny weeny bit of new game addition grew out from the soil.

I am wondering a bit why. I mean slayer is the most popular skill among players and is basically the kill X of Y quest made into a skill. Dungeoneering just seems raiding wrapped in a little box. Why do players dislike raiding? If your Slayer skill involves banking all your favourite equipment and inventory items in order to enter instanced slayer locations, using non-tradeable (but cool looking) armours, weapons, food, potions and summoning pouches to kill the monsters, and you don't get loot nor slayer EXP from the monsters directly except more non-tradeable food/potion to sustain your trip, but you get TOKENS based on how fast you took and average damage, and then you trade for EXP and abyssal whips which would be non-tradeable again, and returning all the non-tradeable equipment back once you're done..... :mellow: Talk about poor integration with other skill resources and draconian rules imposed to 'prevent' imbalance in the game.

Having read through the KB article, and without actually trying out the new 'skill', I'll just state why the skill pretty much kills my mood to try it out. Firstly, the limits imposed on the skill, in particular how it doesn't incorporate resources from the outside world, and vice versa. Just go there with nothing on, and somehow everything would be provided for you in the dungeons. As a minigame? Sure. As a skill? Not really. The initation part of Dungeoneering doesn't integrate with other parts of the game at all. We have awesome armours and weapons in-game, clan chat, familiars to support us, potions, graves to prevent loss of items on death, and yet we get a 'safe skill' that provides the same thing within the training boundaries just so that there is no interaction between the world underground and above ground? And for all the variety of food items, monsters, armour and weapons etc you see within the dungeon, you end up being able to get only a few new items (spread across multiple skills) above ground, not harvested from the dungeons that you've explored, but from trading your 'tokens' with a NPC. The ideas of some of the items were good and even useful, but from the perspective that I'm training a skill and not playing a minigame, somehow I don't see the link as to why this NPC has a truckload of bonecrusher, or chaotic weapons waiting for me to trade for them. Even within the variety of rewards, what you get compared to what you saw in the dungeons is pathetic. Meleers get: one level 80 shield, three level 80 weapons. Rangers get: one level 80 shield, one level 80 weapon, one pair of attack boosting glove. Magers get: one level 80 shield, one level 80 weapon, one amulet up to level 70, two skilling staves, one shield slot item for infinite water runes. You got the best deal mages. :thumbup: Not that I'm boasting, but if this is supposed to be the skill of all skills, I can come up with a better 'dungeoneering' skill (I'll call it raiding) that introduces more new resources to the outside world, allows you to bring every single item out of the dungeon without overpowering the rest unnecessarily, and provide more endgame fun that can expand levels after levels beyond 120.

Just got on and yet to try out the new skill, but like many mentioned, this feels more like an activity than a skill....way too many restriction.

Simple, just make the boss monster drain your prayer to zero at all times, and cause your potions to burst. :thumbup: The F2P boss update, due this year, should at least accompany another member update though. Not because the update's bad, but it helps to prevent bad vibes on the forum on how members aren't getting anything, and killing the atmosphere for one whole week.

Actually one of the member benefits advertised by Jagex itself is: Regular content updates This doesn't have to be weekly. Even a bi-weekly new content update would be welcome but it's not happening. All of you jumping up and down in happiness at patch notes are Jagex fans. A few years ago patch notes were not even a big deal. Now they are being promoted as content. It's a joke. Holiday events are supposed to be small and give a small costume reward. Now holidays are promoted as real content. It's a joke. All of last year was dedicated to improving the game and fixing the existing skills. A few skills were tweaked last year, and this year a few more skills have had minor updates. None of the skills were majorly changed or majorly improved this is all small fixes. Plus a lot of skills have not even been touched. Some skills have no guilds. All skills should have guilds, why isn't there a fletching or farming guild? Sheer laziness on Jagex's part. The question remains where exactly is all of the real gp we pay for members going?! Certainly not to new updates and new content so far this year. It's been a very quiet year. I shake my head at updates like constituition where the benefits are for new players who get bored easily(!) and nothing was rolled out for exisiting loyal players. Combat needs a complete re-work, constitution could have been the first phase. Instead they admitted that there is nothing developed for constitution but they are willing to listen to player suggestions and ideas... Ridiculous. There's a new skill on its way, I have no hopes for it. I remember when there used to be two skils released per year, now one new skill is being overhyped. The only thing I want to see is RSC quests wrapped up in my lifetime. I don't care about any other content. Because frankly I don't like the new content apart from the new prayers. Strykworms have to be killed while on a task. This was a slap to 99 slayers. New imps and better exp but Puro Puro was enlarged so there are fewer more spread out imps. The costume isn't that great. Herblore combat potions while I don't mind that these aren't tradeable I wish they were able to be made with assist. What's the point of a high herblore level when the only way you can profit from it is to do godwars. If they were assistable they could be introduced to pvp which makes things more interesting. Your opinion doesn't represent the whole of the RuneScape population. We have been getting updates at least once every two weeks, just that whether those updates fit your taste. And since you declared that you ONLY want RSC storyline quests, might as well cease your membership until you see one, because honestly, Jagex isn't going to change their update schedule for you. And I think I've seen enough of people glorifying the past years, in particular the year 2005 with the 2 new skills and barrows and ancient magicks and whatsnot. By the way, I'm sure not everyone agree with what you think strykewyrms, and herblore update should be like. I sure as hell don't.

Well, at least this gives people something to talk (or rage) about while we wait for the next update. Gold, platinum.....I want a diamond ranking...... :rolleyes: