Zepheras

When clearing the dungeon, chances are you can't really tell if a room is a bonus room or a main room without using the guide mode. The only certain way to define a bonus room is if it's a skill-based room where no one has the right level to clear it. So the right thing to do would be to explore the whole dungeon as much as possible, which the EXP calculation system encourages. However, I've always thought that bonus rooms are the ones that are generated regardless of your team's skill levels, while main rooms are the ones that have skill requirements that someone in the team definitely has the right level to clear. Even you don't clear all the bonus rooms, you can't get a negative modifier since the bonus room % bar is always positive or zero? I also thought that Base XP is dependant on the floor level and not the number of rooms explored. Guide mode is silly for the penalty it gives. If you're using it, you get a -6% modifier for telling you the main paths. The only reason to use it is if you're rushing through the floor, but every floor I did I want to get the most XP out of it to unlock the next floor. I'm not so worried about the slow XP actually. It's the endgame skill, and requires mastery in other skills to get the best XP rate out of it. 7000 people with 100k seems normal to me.

The first is due to the fact the you only unlock a new floor if two conditions apply: You have the level neccessary to access the next floor. You have just completed the floor above the new floor. The second I believe is because how Jagex intended to release the new skill. Even some Jagex mods say that to unlock a floor requires: D'eering Level = Floor x2, however it is actually (Floor x2) -1 [as floor 1 would have required lvl 2] as you can see the bosses are leaked a level too early, because they unlock at a certain floor rather than level. Probably a typo. The first is more of a glitch, rather than meticulous conditions designed by Jagex. I've had issues when inviting players to a party, and I couldn't invite them even though they have the levels for the floor I set. Moreover, the moment you leveled the in-game message already mentioned that you have gained access to so-and-so floor, so I don't see why there's a need to force player to complete the floor above it (if they leveled somewhere else) just to do the new floor. Wikia has a bunch of pictures showing graphical glitches. I wonder how long will it take Jagex to fix all the bugs. By the way, were all leaked dungeoneer items removed from the players' accounts?

There's tons of bugs and glitches right now. If you level and gain access to say, floor 10, but the leveling didn't place at floor 9, you can't access floor 10 unless you go and re-do floor 9. I got a fight with a boss that required level 36 Dungeoneering even though I'm level 35.

Skill and key icons would be nice, but I think it should only appear on the guided mode. So, you can choose to sacrifice a bit of EXP for a more convenient map. There shouldn't be experience loss for giving players something they can get in third party program. All it needs is a quick legend telling what are the resources (just like it marks the boss and where other players are at) in addition what type of lock is on the door. This is something very simple to program (right click, add room, right click, add key, right click, add resources, right click, add boss, etc.) The whole point of the guided mode is to provide convenience at the cost of slight XP loss. Obviously something that makes your trip go much faster and easier goes here. It's not a matter of how easy it is to create such a legend. So you either use the guided mode for convenience, or learn to spread your team out and communicate. If you're soloing, use the orb of oculus.

Skill and key icons would be nice, but I think it should only appear on the guided mode. So, you can choose to sacrifice a bit of EXP for a more convenient map.

I think we could use some type of system where you can bind a TOTAL of 125 runes, but you can split that up among 2-3 runes. So you could take like 50 bloods and 75 fires or whatever. Or, bind 125 casts of one combat skill, since we're talking about ammo. 125 arrows = 125 casts of any combat spell. That would be in conflict, since you need air runes for every combat spell, you could only bind air spells, though that is better then nothing. I was thinking, when you made enough runes to cast a spell just choose that spell to bind (eg. fire blast), and you get supplied with whatever rune quantity you have (up to 125 cast worth) For example, I made 30 deaths, 120 airs and 150 fires, and my fire blast spell lights up. Right click -> bind fire blast, and I get 30 deaths, 120 airs and 150 fires every level. I can make more runes and rebind them until the max of 125 deaths, 125 x4 airs and 125 x5 fires.

I think we could use some type of system where you can bind a TOTAL of 125 runes, but you can split that up among 2-3 runes. So you could take like 50 bloods and 75 fires or whatever. Or, bind 125 casts of one combat skill, since we're talking about ammo. 125 arrows = 125 casts of any combat spell. I dislike the way that the smuggler supplies some of the resources actually. If you're going to have coins as loot to buy the resources like majority of the ores, fish and wood, might as well add more of these resources directly in rooms for people to utilise their skills on? On members' world, he should supply just fishing/crafting tools, the lousiest hachet/pickaxe, and the lowest ore/wood, but herb seeds variety should be the one that's fully supplied since there's no way to get them using another skill. On free world, he should supply all the bows, since F2Pers can't fletch better bows even if they have the wood.

First article: Without all the drama from bots and credit card fraud issues, I guess we wouldn't have experienced this 'reflation', oh well... Second article: I dislike Dungeoneering for another reason not stated in the second article; the rewards system and the role of a Dungeoneer. If you look at the mechanics, the skill is somewhat similar to Slayer when it was first implemented. It makes use of other skills, and unlocks a new content, and you train it in a very specific area (slayer dungeon & tower). Let us just assume that eventually, there might be smaller, but more dangerous and rewarding dungeons, as well as quests that have a Dungeoneering skill requirement to access. I'm fine with that, and I'm also stunned by the gameplay and graphics of all the new areas, bosses, and items. Sooner or later, 99% of the population would have realised that this skill is pretty much the same as Slayer, less boring than mining 10k coal ore, and accept it. However, what role do Dungeoneers play in the end, compared to Slayers? Slayers provide new slayer equipment obtained to slaying beasts, allowing players without the levels to do so to access some new equipment. I slay, you pay me the gold, I give you the loot. There is a PURPOSE in being a slayer. Now look at a dungeoneer. You gain more levels and increase your access to more dungeons, but once out of Daemonhelm you aren't fulfilling a single role. 100% of the rewards are untradeable; you're not a supplier of anything. If you say that the rewards should be untradeable because it would otherwise be unfair for players to just buy their way to a chaotic equipment, I can understand that. But what about some sort of small exhaustible resources to let you buy and sell to the market for gold? Special summoning beast pouches, short-term effect scrolls and new exotic potions aren't going to change the game much except filling some gap in the game. If you say that Agility doesn't give anything, remember that agility doesn't involve killing monsters either. When there's dungeons and monsters involved, you can be assured of rewards. Lastly, the whole token system is what makes me think that this is an activity more than a skill. Can you imagine what Slayer would be like if you trade tokens for abyssal whips instead of getting them as monster loot? It just doesn't feel the same, and I personally don't see the need for this system. The EXP system is rather complicated, but it's there to ensure fairness in the game, as opposed to people fighting over doors and killing monsters to gain direct Dungeoneering EXP. The second article addressed the short-term opinions of players regarding the skill, but seems to me that the long-term impact has been overlooked.

When I was training Dungeoneering in F2P, I realised one thing: You don't see any one weapon being the most popular weapon among players! If you compare the stats of dungeoneer fractite weapons with rune class weapons, you'll find that the the fractite rapier is a similar to a rune sword, except with slightly better slash bonus. Fractite warhammers are have a higher strength bonus than the rune counterpart, such that it's more comparable to battleaxes. Longswords, battleaxes and warhammers are of equal status and sufficiently better than rapiers, all requiring two bars to smith, and each serves the purpose it's meant to; longswords for stab + slash, battleaxes for slash + crush, warhammers for crush only. Fractitle spear for its versatile combat style (my favourite weapon), and mauls + 2h swords for the berserker-like players. If the rune and dragon class weapons have this kind of change, I'll be very happy. :grin: This is the kind of rebalancing I've always wanted. EDIT: Even the Dungeoneer ranged equipment are more balanced. Longbows/shortbows have more suitable stats than those we have above ground. More accuracy bonus for longbows, instead of giving the same bonus to both long and shortbows. Ranged armour reduces melee attack bonus.

Kudos to whoever posted the link to RuneScape's KB article on speed class. Now I know why we have a pretty crappy system where rune scimitar>all other rune weapons 95% of the time. Can anyone tell me the exact attacking time for class 3, 4, 5 and 6 weapons?

Capped f2p experience: lower level f2pers are already capped by their inability to kill things quickly. Though I agree, increasing p2p exp was the way to go. We gained our levels so that we could kill things faster and get exp faster, and it took quite a bit of time. Penalizing our exp from being able to do what we have levels for in the first place, is ridiculous. Plus, I highly doubt that our increased killing speed really makes us finish dungeons at least twice as fast as people with under 90 combat. Either reduce exp on non-member servers as whole, or increase members exp. I think a reduced XP for F2P players is necessary, but the 'fix' to the XP issue is flawed. The monster level cap system seems too low in the first place, as a F2P level 123 player my solo bosses are really easy to defeat, unless the difficulty is increasing as I unlock deeper levels. The main problem though, is how Jagex chose a point level (level 90) to add a XP cap of 50% reduction, instead of a proportional XP reduction for all F2P players at the same floor and prestige level. From what I read, this means that you're best having a combat level below 90 when training dungeoneering, and you might even get faster XP than a F2P player with high combat level.

It's a straight up 50% reduced exp for people over 90 combat on non-members worlds. In other worlds, take the normal floor exp and prestige exp, half them, then continue with exp calculations. So, if you're below combat 89 and F2P, you get the full floor and prestige EXP, but the moment you get to 90, you get 50% reduction, possibly slower than a fellow level 89 F2P player?

Regarding the capping of EXP on F2P for high level players, how does the capping work? You don't get more EXP with increasing floor and prestige number? Or the fact that it increases, but you get less than what a member would get for the same floor and prestige level? I'm not sure what's with the rants over this cap.

Off with your head then. I think the possibilties are, either you are numb from opening so many rooms that a small-sized dungeon looks large to you, or someone quits the party halfway through the trip but you still get to access large dungeons. Is the latter possible anyway? :unsure:

They did make the NPC's moderately based on the combat triangle, or at least more-so than the way rs-world NPC's are. This isn't to say you *have* to follow the combat triangle in every instance though. It just makes it much easier. Like always, melee can be pumped up the majority of the time to take on most combat challenges effectively. Yes, but it doesn't always work. Sometimes you can come up against a Forgotton Warrior with full Gorgonite or above, and it's downright impossible unless you make some runes and mage. Luckily, this isn't too difficult if you've already made a Fire Staff for alching. NPC mages always fail because of protect from magic stops their binds, which I believe is a flaw in the game. I've found that attack styles are very important as well. On some things you simply can't use slash. This is quite true. I'm F2P and use a spear (in F2P!) as my primary weapon. There're monsters that are so high in stab defence that I keep seeing zeroes when I use the stab stance, even though spears have the highest stab bonus. From my personal experince in the first few levels it seems that the ice elementals and zombies are weak to slash, armour-like monsters and zombies are weak to crush, rangers and the little dinosaurs are weak to stab.... And I still can't get over the fact that we get TOKENS to trade for rewards, instead of just getting rewards off monster loot and chest. As the 'endgame' skill it's great, but the rewards system is pretty screwed up. Last night I finally get to see a change in the dungeon settings from the ice theme to the moss-coloured theme. On the second moss-theme level, the boss was the skeleton horde. I rushed straight at them with my fractite spear, killing over 20+ of them and thinking that it's a survive-the-incoming-wave kind of fight, until I found that there's this 'block tunnel' option on the wall.... :wall: After blocking one, and low on food, I proceeded to block the next one but took 240 damage instead. I didn't know that I had to wait for the cue from the skinweaver to block a tunnel, nor did I realise that she's there to heal me when I'm standing within the rectagular zone. Needless to say, I was screaming (in my head) "THIS IS SPARTA!!!!" after being surrounded by 20+ skeletons and seeing my avatar's dying animation. <3: First death soloing in the skill, and it felt great. :rolleyes:

The first part is correct. You don't have to run through all the levels in one single trip though, so I can have a prestige of 10, do 1-5, get out of the dungeon when on 6, log off, chill, come back and choose to start from level 6 before going down the dungeon again. If you do it on Complexity 1 you get a 50% penalty. Only complexity level 6 has no penalty.

. . . and then they find out that it's impossible to do what they saw in the video. I hope you're not a business major. You could be a political science major, I guess. Sure, with that armour it may be impossible. But what about the Promethium type? That's not impossible in one dungeon. What about Spiritbloom type? What about the Tyrannoleather type? They can be obtained in a dungeon with luck, and maybe a few high level money drops. But still, who cares? They're just showing off the best stuff. Would you rather have a video where they were wearing Novite? And no, don't worry. I'm not even near the age of university, let alone work. And I highly doubt that someone who started playing RuneScape because of that ad is going to know which is the 'best' armour, or remember the grudge of how Jagex 'lied' one to two years down the road.

I've already forgotten how the old layout looked like.... :wall: Looks great, though the fact that RuneScape gets renamed with a sub-theme based on the dungeon for the new skill gives me the impression that future 'skills' might be new raiding spots. Skyscaping Skill + a 100-level Armadylian Tower anyone? :wink: Interestingly, why didn't Jagex include the trailer found on their youtube channel for Dungeoneering? And this time round they're smart enough to take the forums offline, I just saw a "homepage sub-theme looks like WoW ripoff' thread.

Guys, the homepage just changed to a Daemonheim theme design. :blink:

Well the FAQ sure didn't answer my question of why the team has to waste so much time re-creating untradeable versions of steel armour and salmons. You can't bring any resources in, you have to re-identify the tiers of all 'new-but-not-really-new' items, and you can't bring them out.

Since the game is down, anyone has any idea why Jagex couldn't have named the skill as RAIDING? According to the FAQ, they named it as dungeoneering because they want the name to 'describe the essence of the skill'. By that definition, I assuming that we'll either: 1. Have only this location to train 2. Have more locations, but all dungeon-themed, instead od say, a 100-level skyscaper. Great name it is, giving people even more oppotunities to make fun of it. "What's your dung skill?", "Wanna go dung island"? :rolleyes:

In your example, if I complete up to level 17 for the first time, reset, join a party that starts from level 11, continue till 17 (experiencing the bonus of 17 prestige for this 7 levels), reset, will I get a new prestige of 7 instead? And another scenario. I completed up to level 17 for the first time, reset, join a party that starts from level 11, continue till 17, get out, start from level 1, played till 10, reset. Will I still get 17 prestige?

And.... Recent Updates forum just exploded. :rolleyes:

Need a little help. I'm going solo, so I formed my own party. I want to raid a medium size dungeon and the guide says that only parties of 3-5 players can raid large, but I can't seem to find the option to change my dungeon size to medium. Any idea if medium sized dungeons are available to soloers?

Slayer can exist, and pretty much existed without a point system. You don't trade points for abyssal whips and granite mauls either; the abyssal demon and gargoyles drop them. 10 bucks to whoever can guess which monster drops which item. :rolleyes: If Dungeoneering can get rid of the token system, such that I loot/obtain/earn my rewards off opening difficult rooms, passing complex puzzles, defeating and looting boss monsters, then I won't have THAT much to say about it. If non-overpowering resources such as potions, fish, summoning pouches that fills a certain gap in their respective skill can be brought out of the dungeon in limited quantity per trip(or even become tradeable), such that I contribute to other skills as a Dungeoneer, even better. You completely avoided the part of the statement that degrades your opinion. Slayer's point system: do you like it or not? Because general consensus seems to say that slayer after Smoking kills is much more enjoyable than it was before. If a point reward system can make one skill more enjoyable, why can another skill not have a point system? Late reply but.... It's generally more enjoyable for people who used to burthrope tasks they don't like. I don't burthrope my tasks, and my block list has only black demons (because I'm too cheap to melee through them with prayer). Generally I have the "I'm a powerful slayer, difficult tasks don't stop me" mentality, but most players have the "Let's block those tedious and non-rewarding task" mentality. In fact, people who use up all five slots improve the probability of "good" tasks like abyssal demons, so if you think that the points system and block list is optional, you're wrong. It's compulsory to make your slayer more 'rewarding', or you'll get less whips and whatsnot. What about free runes, arrows, and abilities? Those can be given out without a points system either. But you missed my point. Slayer has a points system, but the skill doesn't calculate EXP off it, nor are you rewarded with abyssal whips by exchanging points/tokens. You still get your EXP by doing what the skill is intended for; slaying monsters, and the points system is merely a bonus. Dungeoneering on the other hand depends fully on this EXP calculating system for everything. So instead of getting Dungeoneering EXP through opening rooms, completing puzzles and defeating the boss, or collecting parts off dead monsters to create your 'reward' such as my previous example with the coal bag, we have what we have now. If Jagex wants to implement this adventuring thingy as a skill rather than as a minigame, then they should at the very least, make it FEEL like a skill. 10/10 for graphics and gameplay, 0/10 for implementation. Which is a better way to reward players? Earning tokens as 1/10 of your EXP to trade with a NPC hoarding all the rewards for reasons I don't know, or this: Right now the EXP (and hence token) calculating system is a pain with all the prestige issue, figuring out what boosts your EXP and what doesn't, whether the more teammates you have the better it is (from the previous posts it looks like one is good, two is better, beyond three and you might actually be getting the bad end of the deal)