Yoko Kurama

Bandos got knocked down to that tier after the Goblin questline though. So i'd say of the major gods that Armadyl is probably relatively consistently the weakest one. With Zaros and Seren seemingly having been tier 2 before their falls and still decently powerful since. Sara and Zammy still being tier 3 and Bandos only recently becoming tier 4 again. I'm not saying armadyl is a pushover, but he's pretty much the lower end of the majors. That's true that Bandos only recently became T4, but the fact that he did basically makes him similar to Arma in power. Mod Osbourne also stated that although Armadyl is on the weaker end of the scale, he still has enough power to hold his own in combat against the others. Basically, a battle between gods, even if of different Tiers, is not an instant one-hit thing; it's a back and forth thing. As for Seren, it is unknown if she can even be reassembled, and that if she is reassembled, what her power will be like. Hard to tell. Zaros on the other hand is Tier 3, in his current form, and is supposed to be stronger if he can become embodied again, meaning if he returned he would be either tied with Zammy/Sara in T3, or be slightly stronger, or go straight back to T2.

I don't like the Deathless Regent outfit (and I knew from the start that I wouldn't like it), because a lot of it looks 2-D. Same reason I detest some of the BoL overrides (I am looking at you, Infernal Staff). You literally look like a 2-D cutout with it. To each his own. It was a very ambitious design for Jagex to try, but the game's graphics seems to have certain limitations.

Armadyl is a Tier 4 God, on the same level as Bandos, and second only to Zammy and Sara. He's effectively tied for the 3rd most powerful being in RS, that we know of, with Sliske's position being indeterminate, with Zaros, Seren, and the Elder Gods still being away. So definitely a force to be reckoned with.

I don't think Jagex is going to kill any more gods or major figures in the near future. Just speculation, no evidence at all to support this, but that's the sense I get.

Completely unrelated, but after the quest, Azzanadra and Wahisetal seem to be upset that you didn't side with the Zarosians. But if you sided with Guthix in TWW, it doesn't give you an option to support Zaros, this time, does it? Seems shortsighted on Jagex's part. We are locked into the choices from TWW, even though the circumstances have changed and some of us might have wanted to support Zaros now that Guthix is gone. I thought we were supposed to have choice! Why do the Zarosians keep telling you after each quest that they were upset with you, but because you have been useful in the past that you might change your mind, when you can't do this?

I will reiterate again that the probability, even from the point of view of the lore, of Sliske actually doing it is zero. Why would he give this extremely powerful item that he has worked so hard to obtain, for no reason at all? It makes absolutely no sense at all. Sliske has been in the power game on Gelinor for thousands of years, in one battle after another, one scheme after another, working either for Zaros or for himself. And after he has spent thousands of years doing all this, he's just going to give it away? Seems ridiculous that any God would, even by self-doubt, believe this. You all keep pointing out that it's a dilemma, and the Gods can't trust each other -- but they have an even infinitely less of a reason to trust Sliske. If they can't trust each other, then they sure as hell can't trust Sliske. And yes, the gods do want to eliminate the others, but on their terms. In a one-on-one battle (like BoL), or in a situation where they have some chance/control. In the free-for-all brawl that Sliske is proposing, there is absolutely no control and anyone could die. And if somehow you do survive, you (as well as your forces) will be weakened and easy pickings for a returning Zaros or an ascended Sliske. Sliske may not be as strong as the gods now, but if they expend all their efforts in this crazy free-for-all brawl and emerge weakened, then they sure could be weak enough for him to kill. It's just a completely dangerous and implausible scenario for any god, aside from Bandos, to fall for this, given the current motivations. I guess we can agree to disagree, but that's how I feel.

A lot of them have also had 12 years worth of unhealthy play to do it. I mean, that has *something* to do with it, right? ...Right? Most 99's by around 2009/2010, just before the bonus frenzy (and if we exclude Effigies), were reasonable in the amount of effort needed in order to max out. Nothing crazy or unhealthy like 200Ms or any of the other nonsense. I wouldn't mind going back to that model (though obviously it's too late to do that). Also, I should clarify, that I personally don't care about the Prestige update in the sense that it doesn't affect me. I have never been a rank or an experience chaser, ever. So it won't affect me.

It's also worth noting that when the Sara and Zammy forces initially went on their crusade against the Zarosian forces; eventually Wahisetal tries to turn them against one another and he fails. They seemed pretty determined to get rid of a common threat and were able to work together extremely effectively. Sliske is a complete loose cannon and they have every reason to band against him, and they even have a past history of working together against common threats. So this history makes the prisoner's dilemma situation even more unlikely.

I don't think Jagex should make everyone go hide. But they need to give a coherent storyline and motive for the gods to join, otherwise they all look like complete idiots being manipulated by an obvious scam. It's called patching up plot-holes. Also there is no reward. No one actually thinks that Sliske would just hand over the source of his power, just like that. The only 'reward' in World Event is an extremely dangerous and chaotic free-for-all brawl that would play into Sliske's hands. Yeah, but it'd be extremely unrealistic for them to collectively decide that no one will kill each other. Besides, Sliske has some very good reasons to get rid of the Stone. Actually, that's another thing. Sliske doesn't even pretend to be bothered by the Dragonkin. He seems to be able to tame them, and hide from them with relative ease. So Jagex could have played the whole "Sliske is scared that the Dragonkin will hunt him down so he's hosting a game to determine a worthy new owner of the Stone" plot, but that was also closed off during the quest. In fact, Armadyl specifically tells Sliske that he will fall just like Kethsi did to the Dragonkin, and Sliske seems completely unphased. If he hadn't so easily been able to control that Dragonkin (or at least if he hadn't revealed to everyone about this), then he could have conceivably tricked them all into believing that he wants to get rid of it, but that option is closed now.

It also would have helped if during the quest, the other gods weren't so hesitant and totally aware that Sliske is a pathological liar, and that the situation is very dangerous. Zamorak says something to the effect of "I refuse to be a part of your games". Knowing all that they know, they look like complete idiots if they just walk into the most obvious trap ever.

I don't think Jagex should make everyone go hide. But they need to give a coherent storyline and motive for the gods to join, otherwise they all look like complete idiots being manipulated by an obvious scam. It's called patching up plot-holes. Also there is no reward. No one actually thinks that Sliske would just hand over the source of his power, just like that. The only 'reward' in World Event is an extremely dangerous and chaotic free-for-all brawl that would play into Sliske's hands.

He doesn't need to be certain. If he chooses to go into Sliske's game, it's 100% certain that he will have to fight one or some, or all of them, eventually. If he chooses not to partake, he can be safe doing whatever, hiding or planning at his base, or whatever. In fact, if he joins into battle, it is almost certain that he would need to form alliances with other gods, since no one god is powerful enough to defeat all others, and that would involve a risky element of trusting your alliance partners. In fact, the smartest choice for any god, is to hide and abstain from this battle, and if any others choose to fight, they can kill and weaken themselves and you can emerge unharmed at the end and in a strong position. There are two choices: A) Join the battle, and you're certain to have to fight several other beings in Gelinor who are the only ones powerful enough to be a mortal threat to you. B) Abstain, and hide from the others as you have done for thousands of years. And plan for a one-on-one confrontation later on or some alternative route. Option B has a very high chance of survival, while option A is extremely dangerous. Also, keep in mind that in the past, the 4 other gods, Sara, Zammy, Arma and Bandos have worked together and formed tenuous alliances in the past in order to defeat Zarosian forces like Azzanadra, Wahisetal at Sennliten, and Nex. They have a history, and they know that if they have a common threat they can make a temporary truce. With Sliske's word, it's different, everyone knows that he is a completely pathological liar that no one can trust.

I don't think that's applicable here because the probability of Sliske giving them the Stone as he promised is zero. That, to me, is obvious. So there really is no incentive there. The prisoner's dilemma only works if there is, you know, actually a dilemma. Also, it usually, at least in the prison version, involves separating the two culprilts; that's not really the case here. The Gods are not isolated, they can communicate, or even hold a secret meeting of their own and ally themselves against a common perceived threat. Saradomin, for instance, states that the Stone is extremely dangerous and could, in the wrong hands (like Guthix's), be used to banish them all. They may all regard themselves as powerful, but obviously not so powerful as to actually beat all the others alone. It would be suicidal to jump into a situation where there's a free-for-all brawl; that's extremely dangerous from the perspective of each God, and it's highly likely that they could be killed. In the quest, they all seem aware (except possibly Bandos) of the chaotic nature of a free-for-all brawl, even Zamorak.

If Sliske ascends using the power of the Stone and Staff, he will defeat Saradomin, I think. If he confronts Saradomin as Mahjarrat, using Staff and Stone, he won't win, just like Zamorak almost didn't. Sliske currently has the momentum and element of surprise, plus that the Shadow Realm is almost exclusively his domain - apparently even the Dragonkin are not so powerful there. In addition, Sliske is far more ruthless - he kidnaps Death, even - and far more flexible - he claims and releases the Citadel as the situation demands - which make him harder to fight. I think this is like many of the wars we've seen in the past fifty to sixty years, e.g. USA in Vietnam, USSR in Afghanistan, USA in Iraq - a superpower enters an area unfamiliar to them, fights a bloody war versus an intangible enemy - with increasing desperation - and is eventually driven off with loss of strength and face. This time, the guerillas have a nuke or two, hidden in the jungle. Small wonder that the gods are unwilling to charge in. @Ruinous Edge: That's always a possibility. Zaros' powers and methods are defined in such a way that he could always be pulling the strings on anything :P. Even if he ascends, it is indeterminate what Tier of Godhood he will find himself in. It is certainly not clear or obvious to me that he would find himself immediately on a Tier 3 level right after ascending -- that to me seems highly unlikely, if anything. Sliske is ruthless, but so is Zamorak (who is on equal footing, or was pre-BoL, with Saradomin), in fact Zamorak seems to thrive in struggle - his motto is "strength through chaos [struggle]" after all. Similarly, Saradomin is also ruthless; he basically genocides the Naragi all because they refuse to worship him. He also creates the three Saradomin necklaces in order to slyly manipulate and control the thoughts of his enemies -- seems like brilliant strategy to me. He's also not extremely inflexible. He's arrogant and self-righteous, but he seems to have adopted to various situations quite well (Zaros, fall of Zaros/rise of Zammy, God Wars, etc.) Also, Saradomin has the Crown, which would let him locate Sliske no matter where he goes (because has 2 Elder items). So, all I am saying is, if a confrontation were to occur, it is not certain at all who would win, and it's a bit presumptious to assume that Sliske would easily outmatch Saradomin. In fact, experience suggests that Saradomin would have the edge, in that he actually engaged in direct confrontations with extremely powerful Gods (Zamorak, BoL) in the past and managed to hold his own. Something Sliske has never really been able to do. It doesn't matter what tier of godhood he would be. Right now he is the most powerful being in existence because he can effectively control everyone else's actions. He doesn't need to confront any god individually; it'd be stupid for another god to fight him. Also Saradomin would only be able to tell if Sliske's artefacts are in the shadow realm or Gielinor, and they're quite obviously in the shadow realm. I disagree entirely with your assertion that he can control the actions of everyone else. The only bargaining chip Sliske has is that he has claimed that he will award the Stone of Jas to whoever plays his game and wins it. It's such an obviously easy decision, that only a fool would believe it. All the Gods present are hesitant to partake in his game, and in fact explicitly state no. Sliske is known to be power-hungry, and a pathological liar who is completely untrustworthy. Why would anyone believe that Sliske would simply hand over the Stone to whoever wins? It's such an obvious ploy to turn the other gods against each other and eliminate them. So I say, what control? In fact, Jagex needs to introduce some other element/reason as to why the other gods agree to partake in this world event; at the moment it's a major plot-hole to simply suggest that they are doing it because they genuinely think Sliske will hand them the Stone. I do agree that Sliske can hide away and sort of bide his time, however, what I am suggesting is that he in a direct confrontation, if it does happen, Sliske does not have the power, yet, to defeat the established gods who have had thousands of years in ascension and with their powers. From my understanding, the Crown gives locating powers to the users, and others, it is at least possible (though not probable, and thus merely speculation) that it would allow Saradomin to lead him to its exact location, or at least a relatively close location within the Shadow Realm.

I agree that it will pass if Jagex wants it to pass; their polling methods are anything but fair and honest. As to whether there needs to be a poll, I find your position to be extremely baffling. This is an update which completely breaks years of Runescape precedent, and is groundbreaking; the customer base has made it clear that they perceive it this way, and they have voiced their discontent with it. Even Jagex has acknowledged that the response to it as pretty bad -- the customer base making their voice clear on an update they feel to adversely affect them, and forcing Jagex, the business, to acknowledge their demands and accommodate them -- this seems to be the most benign thing ever. Isn't that what's supposed to happen?

If Sliske ascends using the power of the Stone and Staff, he will defeat Saradomin, I think. If he confronts Saradomin as Mahjarrat, using Staff and Stone, he won't win, just like Zamorak almost didn't. Sliske currently has the momentum and element of surprise, plus that the Shadow Realm is almost exclusively his domain - apparently even the Dragonkin are not so powerful there. In addition, Sliske is far more ruthless - he kidnaps Death, even - and far more flexible - he claims and releases the Citadel as the situation demands - which make him harder to fight. I think this is like many of the wars we've seen in the past fifty to sixty years, e.g. USA in Vietnam, USSR in Afghanistan, USA in Iraq - a superpower enters an area unfamiliar to them, fights a bloody war versus an intangible enemy - with increasing desperation - and is eventually driven off with loss of strength and face. This time, the guerillas have a nuke or two, hidden in the jungle. Small wonder that the gods are unwilling to charge in. @Ruinous Edge: That's always a possibility. Zaros' powers and methods are defined in such a way that he could always be pulling the strings on anything :P. Even if he ascends, it is indeterminate what Tier of Godhood he will find himself in. It is certainly not clear or obvious to me that he would find himself immediately on a Tier 3 level right after ascending -- that to me seems highly unlikely, if anything. Sliske is ruthless, but so is Zamorak (who is on equal footing, or was pre-BoL, with Saradomin), in fact Zamorak seems to thrive in struggle - his motto is "strength through chaos [struggle]" after all. Similarly, Saradomin is also ruthless; he basically genocides the Naragi all because they refuse to worship him. He also creates the three Saradomin necklaces in order to slyly manipulate and control the thoughts of his enemies -- seems like brilliant strategy to me. He's also not extremely inflexible. He's arrogant and self-righteous, but he seems to have adopted to various situations quite well (Zaros, fall of Zaros/rise of Zammy, God Wars, etc.) Also, Saradomin has the Crown, which would let him locate Sliske no matter where he goes (because has 2 Elder items). So, all I am saying is, if a confrontation were to occur, it is not certain at all who would win, and it's a bit presumptious to assume that Sliske would easily outmatch Saradomin. In fact, experience suggests that Saradomin would have the edge, in that he actually engaged in direct confrontations with extremely powerful Gods (Zamorak, BoL) in the past and managed to hold his own. Something Sliske has never really been able to do.

But Saradomin is no Bandos, or some fool, either. He's the God of Wisdom and he's been in battle with other gods for thousands of years, after all. I am sure he knows something about strategy. Also, Sliske is portrayed to be intelligent at pulling twists and pranks on people; that's not something that can be of much use once a one-on-one confrontation has started -- it might help before to lay some trap, but certainly not afterwards or during. The only thing that he has that would really make him dangerous is the Shadow Realm, and that's unclear, how it would work on other gods. Also, as we already know, that even the Stone of Jas + Staff don't grant infinite power. Zamorak, with both was still basically handedly almost defeated by Zaros; he 'won'/ascended, by a total fluke. Then even though he had ascended by draining the life force of the second most powerful Younger God of the time (Zaros), and whilst also himself being the most powerful Mahjarrat of his time pre-ascension, and while still having the Stone + Staff -- all of that, and he only managed to be on an equal footing with Saradomin in the God Wars, not of a greater footing. So the assumption that Sliske is as strong as the other gods -- which I don't think you're making, but others seem to be -- just because he has the Staff + Stone, is unfounded. Sliske may be more intelligent, cunning at least, but on the power scale, I don't think he would approach Saradomin/Zamorak (Tier 3) levels yet. He may acheive Bandos/Armadyl (Tier 4) levels, but even that is doubtful -- even those two have had thousands of years as ascended gods to practice and develop their powers. I find that people overrate Sliske's capacities. He's not nearly as powerful yet as some people think, and he is not necessarily supremely brilliant either -- he's a trickster, and a reckless one at that. He has cunning, but by no means is it far and away superior to the intelligence of various other people in the lore.

[hide]I think Sliske added the Brassica Prime podium just for the sake of mocking the other gods, as if he viewed them in a similar tier to the cabbage god. Or are you wondering why Jagex decided to take their hidden April Fools' content and turn it into an actual god? Lol[/hide] They have sorted of hinted, I think, on the podcasts, that Bassica Prime is here because of 'popular demand' (not necessarily in this quest, but its continued appearances in the game).

Or perhaps he couldn't capture all 3 Dragonkin? Now that he has the Stone, I imagine it would be stupid to leave the Dragonkin alive on his trail (by the end of the quest, all 3 are free). So far, the only power we know the Dragonkin to have is fire, but I imagine they have plenty more. If the Stone grants them enough power, they could be gods themselves, and be on roughly equivalent power to Sliske. Remember, that Sliske is among the weaker gods, his ascendancy if it has happened is nascent; he hasn't had the thousands of years the others have had to perfect and develop his powers. Guthix became the most powerful Younger God because he had centuries of isolation with the Stone. Saradomin, similarly has has thousands of years with the Crown. Zamorak probably had a few centuries as well with the Stone. And so on...

Or, they could have just not given everyone millions of free bonus experience for everything so that everyone could get 99s in 5 mins, and then we wouldn't have thousands upon thousands of maxed players, and a high scores that is completely meaningless.

-The Staff of Armadyl, as been affirmed both in the case of Zaros and Guthix is not an instant-kill dart. It actually requires effort to use it to kill a god, unless they don't bother resisting you at all (like Guthix). -The Stone of Jas may have unimaginable power, but it certainly doesn't grant its user unlimited power. That's been shown to be true numerous times. Lucien fell to Dragonkin, easily, and he had both the Stone and the Staff (and the Dragonkin probably weren't given enough power at that time to rival that of the gods). Similarly, Zamorak, even with the Stone + Staff, has to struggle very fiercely against Zaros, and only ends up winning by a fluke -- and Zammy is supposed to be the most powerful Mahjarrat of his time. -We don't know if Sliske has Guthix's lifeforce or not, it is not clear if he was actually able to use the Staff as a conduit during his killing of Guthix. In any case, when Guthix died, he unleashed a vast amount of energy, and both Zammy and Sara got huge quantities of it. - The Dragonkin, especially, alone, doesn't seem to be that great of a bargaining chip against gods. Icthlarin, alone, was able to hold him off for a while, and Icthlarin is probably the weakest god present. Sliske has already basically placed a bounty on all their heads; he has already threatened their lives. Also, God's, it seems don't kill each other instantaneously (just look at Battle of Lumbridge, and how long Zamorak and Saradomin were in deadlock). So it wouldn't be a one-hit thing. Also, Presumably, Sliske has to be weaker than, at the very least, Sara, Zammy, Bandos and Arma. For even Saradomin (or someone) references the fact that Sliske, if he is a god, is completely new to this and hasn't had centuries, or millennia to refine and develop his powers. It would be much more sane to unite with the other Gods (who all seemed at the end of it not to fall for Sliske's words) and take him out, then to wait and possibly end up in a situation where you have the other gods (who are more dangerous than Sliske) hunting for you. You can't have god wights. Once gods are destroyed, they explode and release all their energy; apparently they don't actually go to the Underworld or whatever. Off-topic: this new quote system is a pain in the ass. Why is it here?

I found a video. Though the part about the Stone is somewhat confusing. Oh well. Still a good day, I suppose.

Ah, thanks, I seemed to have missed that. Can I revisit this dialogue?

It was an enjoyable quest though there were quite a few things unaccounted for, some are questions, whereas some are plot holes:

The same sort of people who can afford to play Runescape all day without having to go to school or have a job, or doing anything else in life. It seems some of the top players are financially secure enough that they can just afford to do that all day. In the 200M thread, I did the math for the first 39 days of Divination, and using extremely conservative estimates, it turned out that Drumgum was able to get 60M Divination experience by playing something like 16-17 hours a day. Allegedly, Suomi, similarly, didn't need a job, and nor did Jake, to support himself. So there's quite a few people that can afford it. Woah now, not having to work to support yourself and having cash to spend on spins are two completely different things. Being financially or otherwise secure to be able to play 16+ hours a day is reasonable for some people (basically all of the 200m all thread mancrushes). Having the financial resources to do that AND generate $200/day to spend on spins is another matter entirely. I never suggested that they would be able to buy all the experience in the world with spins. They could however spend a decent amount of money on it. And that's all that's needed for generating profits for Jagex; it's about squeezing every aspect they can. Which makes a great deal of sense; this is how all companies try to generate profit and grow, they squeeze every avenue they possibly can. So no, I don't expect anyone to shell out thousands and thousands of dollars for getting 200M, but they might have drop 20,30,40,50 dollars at a time here and there.