Obtaurian

It's late and I can't really elaborate, but soul wars capes are boss hunting capes, and Nomad should be easy-peezy with your stats. Definitely get it. Rapier is great for everything, slayer and otherwise. When I told you to get 70, I meant that having access to f30-35 would be ideal for getting into floors in DGS. :thumbup: Anyway, I'll expand tomorrow. Goodnight.

A surgebox is held in the shield hand (so you can't use a 2h with it). It holds 125 casts of wind surge. If you're wielding an elemental staff, you can cast the corresponding elemental spell. You can bind it and then fill it, but you most likely can't fill it during a later floor. At 92 magic, a seeping elm branch can bought from the smuggler for very cheap and can be made into a basic earth staff. Corpsethorn branches and higher can be made into empowered earth staffs. When you get 95, use blood spindle and entgallow/gravecreeper for fire staffs, respectively.

A few updates to the guidelines in light of both the influx of random players joining the clan chat and a bunch of DGSers nearing 100 dungeoneering: - Added a section on required third binds. - Added a section on quick-switch rings. - 70 dungeoneering is now the recommended level to use DGS. - Added berserker ring requirements for 70 and 105 dungeoneering. - Ammo bind requirements were added a few days ago, but I don't think I mentioned it. I think that's it.

Still unsure about the new clan thingy, If its set to clan chat does that mean I have to be part of the clan to join? or can i join as a guest or something? I don't mind that, im just unsure, thats why i stated friends chat If you're an actual member of a clan, you're always in that clan's chat. If you're not in the clan, you can join as a guest if the clan allows it (we do). So you'd join as a guest, meaning you'd have to talk with /// (which is about ///////////// too many).

I would say DGS, but we've switched over to clan chat. :/

I don't think I've ever seen Golv blatantly insult/degrade someone. Just lots of cynical sarcasm. Seriously? :shock:

Can you guys stop discussing this on this thread? Too much potential for a flamewar to erupt.

I'd actually like to test it more. I'm inclined to say that maul has more staying power than rapier + def, but rapier + def is faster kills.

This isn't very accurate. The maul has the same attack speed as Graar, meaning if you time your attacks correctly you can soul split flash without any chance of being hit by a 400. But the maul is more something that you'd use if you didn't have a good shield or just wanted a quick-but-still-effective trip, and even then you'd wanna bring a rapier + defender for minions. Ideally you'd use: 1. CLS + shield w/ rapier + def for minions and anti-crashing. 2. Maul w/ rapier + def for minions and anti-crashing. The former being better for long trips and the latter being better for short trips.

There seems to be this idea that every single time an "efficiency troll" posts in H&A, they begin their post with "you're a moron, you should be . . . []" when that is definitely not the case. I'd like to ask those of you with personal vendettas to stop posting falsities to prove your points. Discussion in H&A usually only devolves into flaming when a) someone discredits a suggestion or a piece of advice on the basis that it's "efficient" and b) when someone suggests a bad idea and defends that idea despite evidence to the contrary, effectively derailing the discussion. Both of these scenarios should be against the rules in H&A, and I'm fairly confident we'll see that amendment made soon. I guarantee that the amount of flaming and unproductive argument would decrease. As far as Danq: He's already mentioned that he's against improving H&A, so his usefulness as a moderator is suspect at best. I would think that the mods would be trying to reduce the amount of flaming whilst simultaneously improving the forums they moderate, but I guess not.

This is using stews correct? also quickly how does the log out trick work with stews please? Your levels lower by 1 every minute, so you'd logout before that minute is up and immediately log back in to keep your boost. You'll need to delete your bank PIN for this to work well.

He'd be 2.5briding, meaning he doesn't need any magic defense. Arcane or DFS would be better for DKs.

Forgive me for not reading the entire thread, but I would argue that a person's actions do make a person (or at least to some extent). That said, calling a person's training methods stupid can indeed be considered insulting or rude, and does help create arguments on the whole "efficiency vs fun" issue. For example, I reached 99 mining in free to play by mining and superheating mithril ore and coal in the mining guild - a method which I found satisfying as well as profitable, despite it taking many weeks (or months even) and being "inefficient". On one occasion a F2p user asking for advice on mining with the wish of training smithing and making money, so I suggested this method for him. I then had the pleasure of watching what you call an "efficiency troll" call me an idiot for having trained mining this way, and told the asker to become P2p and powermine granite, because that was "by far the best method in the game" according to him. The problem that I see is not so much the fact that some people prefer efficiency where others (like myself) often prefer slower and possibly "more fun" methods of training, but the fact that apparently answering a question no longer seems about answering what the asker wants to know, but more about trying to "win" with this notion of efficiency versus fun. At times users are rude, arrogant and just obnoxious with their notion of being "right about what is best" where it always will be a matter of opinions. What do I mean you may ask? Threads like this one right here. I dare you just to read the first 10 posts, and hopefully you'll see what I mean. Incidentally, what you did is part of the big problem. That player asked you a question. You agreed to answer that question. You then had an obligation to answer that question in one of two ways, with the first option being mandatory and the second option being . . . optional. 1) "Powermining iron is the best mining exp in f2p. You could then use the time saved to make money for smithing." <- Probably by mining rune. I don't know much about f2p moneymaking. 2) "However, I personally mined and superheated mith ore. It's not the best way, but I found it fun. You could give it a try." In that answer you've given him genuinely helpful advice while providing an alternative method that isn't as good, but is now on the table for him to consider, and he knows where he stands with either option.

It really depends on what you do most. You can use a DFS at Bandos, Arma, K'ril, and DKs. You can use a spectral at Arma and Bandos. Get spectral if you spend the vast majority of your time at Arma and/or Bandos. Get DFS if you divide your time between all four bosses pretty evenly. EDIT: And get full arma either way, as you seem to be serious about Kree.

Yeah, I've been concerned about the same thing. It has deterred me from actually becoming a ranked keyer in DGS, since it is now impossible to be ranked in two separate clans. IMO all this update does is destroy the concept of multi clanning, as many people are moving away from the "friend s chat" anyways. Yeah, it really bothers me. Definitely a lot to get used to. My biggest problem with the old chats wasn't even fixed with these new ones, so I'm pretty underwhelmed, and maybe a little disappointed. We're still trying to work everything out.

Few things I don't like: - FL should override clan chat on the minimap. - Was really hoping I could assign certain people mod powers rather than certain ranks. - There's gotta be a way to turn the chat off without leaving it. - I really, really wish we could make our clan forum private. I keeping getting pm'd by people asking to join DGS. Sorry, no. - Those neck braces on the capes are horrible. - The different ranks in the clan chats don't stand out. Before, it was very easy to see what ranks were in the chat at a glance. Now I feel like I have to squint just to tell the silver stars from the gold stars. It's just... blurry. - PUT THE CLAN CHAT LIST IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER. [bleep]. Otherwise I'm pretty happy about it. Oh, except // is really annoying.

as Matt would say: dem fetuses.

Lol, are you saying that the consensus of what defines a "best player" is his/her spot on the high scores? I'd advise you to not create opinions out of thin air and argue against those opinions as if someone else had thought them. That's generally known as talking to yourself. The point is that, say, a player using turmoil/extremes/steel titan and utilizing various gameplay mechanics to maximize speed gets better exp/h than the dude in the slayer cape and DFS using none of those things. The first player is definitively better. Also, ironically, the first player spends less time playing Runescape. Makes me wonder where these grinding arguments come from. It's not as if chopping yews is more or less fun than chopping ivy, but the latter is certainly more efficient. Actually if you think about it the player in the Slayer Cape and DFS probably spends more time ON rs, but less time actually PLAYING. Chances are he'd be afk/browsing the web too, lol. But again, there is no arguing your post. Might want to clarify what you mean by "the best" next tiem thought. I tend to think in terms of "best overall" which would infact be the person at the top of the highscores list even if he/she is the most inefficient of them all. I guess we're not really debating anymore and this is only vaguely related, but I've always had a hard time with AFKing Runescape. When I wanna play, I wanna play. Probably why I enjoy dungeoneering, slayer, and MHing more than anything else (evidenced by my stats). Those times when I feel that raising a non-combat stat would benefit me in some way (quests, dungeoneering, etc), I choose the fastest, most efficient method because I really don't like non-combats. The less time I spend mining or running laps, the faster I can get back to dungeoneering. In regards to activities I DO like, getting better at those activities is fun for me, so once again speed and efficiency come into play. I like to challenge myself.

Lol, are you saying that the consensus of what defines a "best player" is his/her spot on the high scores? I'd advise you to not create opinions out of thin air and argue against those opinions as if someone else had thought them. That's generally known as talking to yourself. The point is that, say, a player using turmoil/extremes/steel titan and utilizing various gameplay mechanics to maximize speed gets better exp/h than the dude in the slayer cape and DFS using none of those things. The first player is definitively better. Also, ironically, the first player spends less time playing Runescape. Makes me wonder where these grinding arguments come from. It's not as if chopping yews is more or less fun than chopping ivy, but the latter is certainly more efficient.

^ That. One of our ranked keyers is even part of a different clan. The only downside to not being an "official" clan member is not having access to the RS forum (and I'm not sure that's really a downside yet). Otherwise, you can continue dging with us as normal. Er, I guess you would if you'd upgrade your ring. Is it that you don't have the tokens currently? I wouldn't mind you dging with us as long as you got it as soon as possible. It's only 50k-ish tokens.

>claiming that what defines the "best player" is subjective. >every aspect of Runescape defines "best" in terms of numbers (i.e., levels, exp, money, number of drops, droprates, etc) >your claim and how Runescape works are at odds. "your argument is invalid" ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

To add to the blazer vs blitzer debate: I've seen blazer "speccing" when the normal hit splashed: so it seems that blazer can spec independedly from magic accuracy (where blitzer is affected by accuracy) Yeah, this is true, which means blazer is also better for necrolord.

This. A refusal to acknowledge your opponent's contributions pretty much defeats the point of your argument, All_Is_Great.

^ This right here is exactly what happens nine times out of ten when an argument erupts in H&A. Here's a quote from a recent H&A thread in which the OP received alternative suggestions to his inquiry: This type of response should be a bannable offence. It is so far removed from the idea of an informational and helpful post that the author must have gone out of his way to annoy frequent H&A posters (which, by the way, happens to be the "efficiency clowns"). There can be no misconceptions about whether this post should be removed. But you know what the worst part is? This is only one post by one user; I'm sure if I had gone through every H&A topic posted today (I typically leave non-combat skill inquiries alone), I would have found five more just like it. That's a problem. It's way too common. When someone creates a thread in H&A, they should get two things: 1) a legitimate answer to their question(s) and 2) alternative suggestions, and both of these things should be based on objective facts unless the author specifies otherwise (and as Green9090 said earlier, this exception is pointless because we cannot tell the OP what the OP thinks is fun). When someone comes along and tries to derail a thread because they feel that posters are attempting to "force" the OP to play Runescape their way, they are essentially impeding the OP by dragging the legitimately helpful posters away from the issue at hand in order to deal with: 1) ridiculous accusations and 2) ridiculous suggestions based on "fun" (an unquantifiable variable). H&A topics should always be open to discussion. ALWAYS. Discussion breeds knowledge, and in a game where the developers keep their lips sealed about everything and we have to do the dirty work to figure [cabbage] out, discussion is vital. Any attempt to forestall said discussion on the basis that it pertains to "efficiency" is laughable at best, and very harmful to the community at worst (especially when people are given false advice because a poster claiming an "anti-efficiency" stance decides to throw in his/her two cents). I'll quote Danq's as a picture-perfect example of the kind of attitude that will stagnate Tip.it as the sole Runescape fansite with hands in research and metagame development. I assume you're talking about his multiple guides, hundreds of posts in H&A, and all of those topics in GD that've bred legitimate discussion and results? Yeah, he obviously doesn't want to help improve anything. :rolleyes: Love, Obtaurian, an Efficiency Clown

Make the potion. Ideally you'd be able to gate at or near the farming patch and you can do both. If the keyer tells you to stop working on the potion, though, stop.