stonewall337

I actually wrote about that in a TIF times article a while ago. There is already legal standing for a virtual item to be considered property due to its worth.

Already happened.

If its too hard to code, they must have some shit programmers.

I think that where facts are available, opinions become moot. Evidence provided to back up my stance has been given. No evidence from the other has been seen. OPINION 1. A belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. 2. A personal view, attitude, or appraisal. An opinion is normally not backed up with evidence "I think" or "I believe". Give me logical reasons to prefer your opinion at the very least. I'm not saying RS is a MLG type of game. I'm saying RS has competition in it. That is all. It could be the duel arena alone, but that is competition. Seems to me other people like to insert their own beliefs into what others say, and then argue that (false) view instead of what is actually said. Sigh. Would you agree that the first part of your response was an opinion then, by your own definition? :P (see underlined part) ----- Anyways, I apologize if this damages the validity of my posts regarding the issue, but I'm just saying that people are just making mountains out of molehills when it comes to microtransactions, etc. Like I said-- if most players were buying SoF spins, or if the people constantly featured in the 200M Thread were buying spins, the issue might hold more weight. But that doesn't seem to be the case. Not entirely, just because someone says "I think' doesn't mean its the same type of opinion, or an opinion at all any more than starting a sentance with the words "what if" means it is a question.. As the definition stated, there are different types of opinions. One is the illinforemed type, the baseless opinion. The other is the one backed up by logic and fact. "I think therefore I am- is an opinion reached by a logical conclusion. "I think this is a good car" is not. In this instance, its a logical process to come to the conclusion I stated. If opinions are of less worth(weight) than facts, facts are better. Facts are available. Therefore, facts are better. It could have been phrased differently, but that doesn't chance the fact that it is correct. You can't have a discussion without having an opinion of some sort, but an opinion based on fact is more than just a baseless opinion. Perhaps, all in all, it would be better said that "where baseless opinions are, as well as fact and data, facts are the correct choice logically". Now on to what muggi said. Ya, I am against the PUSH of the SoF. And the RNG of buying spins to win certain items. But I don't think it will ruin the game, as it is now.

I think that where facts are available, opinions become moot. Evidence provided to back up my stance has been given. No evidence from the other has been seen. OPINION 1. A belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. 2. A personal view, attitude, or appraisal. An opinion is normally not backed up with evidence "I think" or "I believe". Give me logical reasons to prefer your opinion at the very least. I'm not saying RS is a MLG type of game. I'm saying RS has competition in it. That is all. It could be the duel arena alone, but that is competition. Seems to me other people like to insert their own beliefs into what others say, and then argue that (false) view instead of what is actually said. Sigh.

I don't know what you're talking about, so I'll just respond to the other part of your post. I provided you with MY definition of what constitutes competitiveness for online games, and you refuted my argument with the fact that Runescape has a high scores table. I responded to that by saying that high scores tables are a bad measurement of competitiveness because experience earned doesn't translate into skill. Mini games with ratings, like Fist of Guthix, fit under my definition because rating is similar to the elo rating system used in Chess and League of Legends. But mini games alone are not enough to make a game truly competitive. All you've said is that I'm wrong because what I've said is baseless despite the fact I've given you example after example. Your progression argument goes back to the point I've been trying to make about time spent playing not translating into skill. If comparing time played is your definition of competitiveness, then all I have to say to that is, "I disagree wholeheartedly." The point is, Your definition doesn't matter. No one cares. What matters is the facts. As stated before, when opinions and facts meet, facts need always win out. The fact is, your definition is wrong. You are free to believe what you want, but that doesn't make it valid. As for RS, like I said, there are different paths of progression. High Scores, for one (Compared to say World of Logs or WoW heroes for WOW) as well as things like proficiency or efficiency which are harder to tabulate, but which honestly are competitive as well. Minigames, PVP, etc, are all competitive in nature. Even if its a Jagex sponsored event, like the Clan Cup. Honestly, just because some parts of RS aren't as competitive as say Starcraft II doesn't mean it isn't competitive. Hell, to disprove you, all I need to do (and have) is show one instance in which RS is competitive. I dare you to try and show me one game that isn't competitive in some sense, whether single or multiplayer. (Baring erotic games and the like) You can agree or disagree, it doesn'tmatter. But logic, facts, and definitions of the terms all agree with me. Now, I will concede that to gauge SUCCESS or PROFICIENCY by high scores alone will fail. Anyone who has DG'ed with Green098 or w/e will know this. For skills can be leveled slowly, given enough time. But take it from someone who has three times your total XP in one skill, (and their are people with double my XP in 3 skills I know) to make a universal claim like "RS isn't competitive" not only is asinine because making universal claims is never a good thing (joke intended) but when you haven't even explored many of that facets of the game that people make competitive, it just doesn't hold a whole lot of weight.

The card game is competitive, but WiFi battles are casual for the most part. Most players aren't even aware of the meta. (Importance of physical and special walls, held items and move list synergy, IV breeding, etc). My definition INCLUDED sponsorships and tournaments, not specifically just recognition by MLG. Obviously you are going to keep arguing off your opinion (which, besides being wrong, is baseless) instead of answering with facts, such as counterdefinions. Whether or not its competitive in the same way as others is moot. Progression where you can compare yourself amongst peers is the key. Did you hear about that decade long CIV II game? Was that a competition? Not in the sense that its a tournament, heck no. But is it competitive? DUH.

No. No it isn't. :mellow: Competative =/= competition. Chess is a competative game. Doesn't mean every game you play is a competition.

Major League Gaming doesn't recognize Runescape as competitive. That's a pretty good standard to hold any game that claims to be competitive to. The other games I used in my example have both received attention from the aforementioned organization as well as outside sponsorships. When you compare this to Runescape's advertisements for Squeal of Fortune spins, the distinction is clear. This MMO is artificially competitive at best because of pretentious PKers and try hard casuals who think an experience race matters to the outside world. I mean, people watch LoL and SC2 at bars. My argument is hardly just an opinion. You obviously aren't talking about the same competitive aspect. Competition is different in different circumstances.

It is obviously rebindable 1) you can reassign keys. 2) you can reassign slots. That's not what I meant. Rebindable as in bindable to mouse scroll wheel, alt/shift keys, etc. ^ 1) you can reassign keys. We don't know if you can bind them to combo (ctrl+a) keys, or the mouse wheel yet. Hence my original post. Derp. Yes we do know They said in the latest BTS video quite clearly you can reassigned action bar items to almost any SINGLE KEYBOARD key, including a-z 1-0 and some of the symbols. He wants them as combination keys like ctrl-q or alt-w, or assignable to the mouse scroll wheel (though that is already the camera). Shift for different bars is pretty okay for me at least. I am aware of what he wanted, my point was in the video they explained what we could do. And that was assign a SINGLE keyboard key of choice to each hotbar action, which directly rules out things like ctrl+q or w/e, not a single stroke and seeing how much depth they went into with and it and menu cleared said 'assign key' it also occludes mouse inputs. I mean for actual actions not switching the bars. Again I am aware of what you were saying, the point was shift+number already has a set action, so even if they did implement dual keys to hotbar actions it is unlikely the shift combos would become usable. [/hide] None of that made any sense, nor did it answer the question. If they don't allow fully rebindable keys, I'll go WTF. You aren't making sense. Some key combinations can't be bound because the java applet has to catch them. And it would suck if you bound say Ctrl-Q and lost focus on the java app and closed your browser. Being able to bind modifier keys is a lot more difficult to program. If that isn't what you wanted, could you please attempt more detail of your idea? :) Full renbindablity includes all keys on keyboard pretty much, alt keys, and shift keys. Also numbers.

And yet players able to spend 16+ hours a day are in no way using an IRL benefit to have success in the game? I'm sure everybody's story is different as to how they can AFFORD to spend so much time on the game, but there's some real life trade off going on. There was a suggestion a few months back in the bot thread that maybe this type of advantage (so much free time) should be taxed. In doing so you'd also get at botters that easily stay on the game 24/7 with no worry about real life at all. Basic idea is any playtime over 100 hours would require another 7.95, over 200 requires 15.90 and over 300 hours would be 31.80, etc. The idea was not popular even by people that wouldn't be affected (averaging 3 hours/day for a month). Still, in my mind it sounds like a fair tax on time use in game. Yes, I get that many don't consider time of any real value. Money magically makes everything easier. However, the interpretation of time and money shifts from person to person. Even in competitions (real and virtual), there's no solid line. Better equipment, better training, better time commitment, and better support go to giving the edge to a person. So now, in RS competition, there's a new variable of $200 to get about 2 million XP in a 99 skill per day. That's on top of being allowed 24 hours a day to train the character and affording the best connection and computer. Bad comparison. Unless I'm completely misreading the gp farmer methods, bots still created that money via automated means. It entered the system without the excessive need of human interaction just as if Jagex entered a few lines of code to get a player 1.5 bill gp for cash. Plus, the price is so low because the farmers are competing against each other for player dollars. In doing so, they've noticeably impacted the game in a negative way. Jagex, being the legal source, doesn't have to sell gp cheap. All they have to do is cut out the non legal methods of buying gp. After that, I can see they do it like squeal where there's an advantage to buy gp, but it'd be so expensive the majority of players would not go for it. Like others point out, it seems they nerfed dragonkin lamps so that SoF is the only game in town for rapid xp. Even then, it's an expensive way to train. If there are people willing to spend $200/day for more xp and gp, then more power to them. In my cynical mind, the less money people with that mindset have, the better. In addition, at least Jagex can control the limits where gold farmers never cared. Farmers would flood the market bringing prices down so low that playing the gathering game (a legit part of the game in RS early years) seems like a waste of time. First off you are wrong, because that is 16 hours spent in game. Real life and time don't factor into what Jagex said, thus what I said stands true. No you are wrong. Bots aren't actually creating the CASH. The GOLD. They are creating the items that are sold for the GP. If Jagex sold the gold, it would be GP just entering the economy. lets also not forget the practical implications of the right/wrong dilemma. If Jagex says buying gold is allowed, at least in some people's mind, buying gold from 3rd party will lose its stigma.

Runescape is hardly "competitive", at least by my definition. Competition, in my opinion, is besting other players in a tournament setting for prizes (usually cash). When I played Super Smash Bros. Brawl competitively, I traveled to various cities and states to play for money. When I played League of Legends competitively, I fought match after match every Sunday with my team in hopes of winning Riot Points or Alienware gear. I can see how some people might consider PKing and staking competitive, but all the prizes are virtual. I can't see people grinding solely because they want to show others how much experience they have by comparison. @99134: Agreed. Every multiplayer game has some elements of competition. Just because you don't view it as competitive doesn't mean its not. In fact, an opinion as to competitiveness is actually worthless. People seem to think opinions matter when facts are concerned.

I like more ppl doing this game!

^ First off, because some people actually play to be competative. Remember, there are people with double your total xp in a SINGLE skill. Some enjoy RS just because of their own goals, etc, but others enjoy competition. Setting records, getting richer, gaining a better spot on the HS. And when some people can do so easier because they have/are willing to spend IRL cash on the game, they see that as unfair, and I tend to agree. Mainly because Jagex has said, as a reason for going against RWT, that "we don't want players to be able to buy their way to success." Selling cash in a game like RS is a terrible idea, since the only real currency is cash. It would destroy the economy. Pets, cosmetic items, skill % increases, maybe even certain "lucky" items I could see them selling. GP, no. In a game like WOW, where most items have to be earned/gotten as drops, a cash sale *might* be viable. Gold is used for training skills, riding/flying increases, repairs, and things of the sort. It would harm the pure gold economy but not destroy it. Not so in RS. In RS the *only* (real) way besides being given an item, buying it black market, or getting it as a drop, is really to buy an item with GP. Inflation would be much worse than what 26king did to the economy. I mean, if right now, I could buy 1.5b for 750 dollars black market, and with that buy a divine, torva, and whatever else nex gear or w/e I wanted, no new cash is entering the game. BUT if Jagex sold cash, that acceptance that buying gold is legal would mean more people would buy it, and if Jagex's prices were cheaper than 3rd party, we'd see a twofold problem, first off, NEW cash magically entering the economy. Second, far more people have far more cash than before, so current stockpiles of cash devalue. With max cash being only 2.2b, rares and other items suddenly become the only way of buying rares/desirables like nex sets, corp shields, etc, as demand is suddenly SO MUCH higher. Back to the old problems of no free trade days.

[hide] It is obviously rebindable 1) you can reassign keys. 2) you can reassign slots. That's not what I meant. Rebindable as in bindable to mouse scroll wheel, alt/shift keys, etc. ^ 1) you can reassign keys. We don't know if you can bind them to combo (ctrl+a) keys, or the mouse wheel yet. Hence my original post. Derp. Yes we do know They said in the latest BTS video quite clearly you can reassigned action bar items to almost any SINGLE KEYBOARD key, including a-z 1-0 and some of the symbols. He wants them as combination keys like ctrl-q or alt-w, or assignable to the mouse scroll wheel (though that is already the camera). Shift for different bars is pretty okay for me at least. I am aware of what he wanted, my point was in the video they explained what we could do. And that was assign a SINGLE keyboard key of choice to each hotbar action, which directly rules out things like ctrl+q or w/e, not a single stroke and seeing how much depth they went into with and it and menu cleared said 'assign key' it also occludes mouse inputs. I mean for actual actions not switching the bars. Again I am aware of what you were saying, the point was shift+number already has a set action, so even if they did implement dual keys to hotbar actions it is unlikely the shift combos would become usable. [/hide] None of that made any sense, nor did it answer the question. If they don't allow fully rebindable keys, I'll go WTF.

Looks like Desert Strykeworms, which are in the area just before the quest. And here I was thinking he was sketching dongs in the desert.

I wonder what exactly it means by "100% weapon damage". Does it mean it always guarantees you hit your maximum normal hit? Or does it just mean you deal normal damage for that attack? That way 300% would mean it deals up to triple damage, but not guaranteed? In most games, its wep damage base, modified (By things like strength, buffs, other gear, etc) reduced by defense of target (armor/ level etc) So I have a 100 DPS wep, and 100 Str (100% damage, lets say) So I'd hit for 200. But opponent has 95% reduction due to armor. So I hit him for 10. This COULD be a range however, like RS is now. Most games solve that by giving weps a damage range, say 5-10 with 1.0 attacks per second for an average of 7.5 base DPS.

It is obviously rebindable 1) you can reassign keys. 2) you can reassign slots. That's not what I meant. Rebindable as in bindable to mouse scroll wheel, alt/shift keys, etc. ^ 1) you can reassign keys. We don't know if you can bind them to combo (ctrl+a) keys, or the mouse wheel yet. Hence my original post. Derp.

It is obviously rebindable 1) you can reassign keys. 2) you can reassign slots. That's not what I meant. Rebindable as in bindable to mouse scroll wheel, alt/shift keys, etc.

If the action bar isn't rebindable I'll know the people at Jagex are idiots.

9001/10, win. ^ nice work upspam: 2 achievements 101/101 lol'ed IRL

I understand everybody hates the SoF. My point is that they're overreacting. You get two free items a day. If you want to pay money, you can get more. If you don't want to "waste" your money, then don't buy more. As far as other people go-- what they choose to do with their resources is none of your business. People would be less upset if they worried more about themselves and less about everybody else. And if this SoF issue is upsetting everybody that much, then they have the option to quit and choose a game that offers better gameplay and customer service. It's pretty obvious that Jagex isn't going to significantly change their ways any time soon. Either deal with it or get out. I don't have any sympathy for the people complaining about an issue that they can choose to abandon at any given time. The people complaining about these updates are usually the ones that are too lazy/stubborn to adapt to change. For me, its more I dislike the emphasis put on the Squealscape. Put pets/cosmetic items for sale on a Jagex store is K. Making people buy random spins to hopefully win the items they want is kinda ehhhh.

Actually, yes.

DAMN IT STOP DIVIDING BY ZERO. %0|%0

I know, Jagex should just put all their development time and resources into constantly churning out skills regardless of how shit they are! /sarcasm Because THAT statement is LOGICALLY the one that should be inferred. Sigh. Don't use logical fallacies.