Grimy_Bunyip

I dislike the idea of removing XP because it can cause weird anomalies (lvl 3's with quest capes for example) anyways back onto your comment. I'm not confident in Jagex's abilities to detect a bot. But Jagex could increase monitoring of botting on an account that is in lockdown I guess. Anyways, it's not like it would be TOO hard to make it impossible for players to bot out of a punishment. So here's a hypothetical thing that Jagex could implement, as a punishment for botting, that would 100% be unbottable. -Introduce a map editor/quest maker to the community that would allow players to create mini-RS worlds and mini quests. -Allow players to upload these quests. -Players can play instanced versions of these player made quests for fun. -Offer an incentive for the player to make these quests (like, good quests get made into real quests or something) -Force players punished for banning to complete X number of these quests. In theory, there should be such an obnoxiously large number, and varied combination of quests that the community could make. That writing a botting program to circumvent the punishment would be more or less impossible. Brute Force Solutions can be > Botting tbh :)

I support this thread. Everybody that disagrees is a tool :)

Might as well just ban them then. It wouldn't be any different. The point is that practically, it isn't different. But psychologically it's different, which is the entire point. I'm not quite sure what you're on about. Why do you think this punishment isn't fitting? You didn't really give a reason why not. And why does manipulation have anything to do with this? I'm proposing a general punishment, it just so happens to work better if the punished player happens to be hoarding something.

If I were Jagex I'd be afraid from all the bad PR that might create. it's kinda like Jagex is ripping money out of players' hands. *shrug* that's a good point. eh, but the point is to not have negative economic impacts. You can easily rectify items lost through bannings, if the only item lost is GP. If the items lost are a broad range of items, that can cause issues that are much harder to rectify. I said that the items have to *sell* on ge b4 they could be used towards the fine. junk items would not be useable on the destruction box. I don't think banning actually teaches a lesson. Because the person can actually just go do something else. it takes more time to dump stuff into a destruction box. And if you make a new account, you start anew and don't really think about your past account. Remember alot of jagex's customers are kids. It has a greater impact on them if you make them take some time, and grasp what exactly their punishment is.

Interesting, did not know that :o I hate it because it's immoral and inefficient, that's all. :P hmmm... interesting... *strokes beard*

i thought of a new problem to my idea, and added it to the cons list:

Completely agree with you, but how would you punish them statwise? =\ Do you actually have any ideas? Because I'd love to hear em. Anyways my thoughts on this: You can't just reset their stats to 0, because then we might have lvl 3's with quest capes and soul wars capes. But what if you went ahead and reset their quests as well. Then you might have lvl 3's with those chompy ranger hats. but what if you reset chompy ranger hats too. well then there would be something else weird, and yet another thing, and yet another thing after that But what if you reset *everything* Then you might as well have banned them. Only with banning, you can unban if you make a mistake. Whereas if you reset everything in their stats, and how are you going to unreset them? What if they gained xp since the reset? how would that be factored in? I mean I guess they could tack on a "10x less xp for the next 10 million xp you gain" condition on top of the destroy your bank fine. But then cooking would get more expensive because freshly locked down players would just spam cooking until they hit 10 million. And if you did it for 10x for 1 month, they'd just wait out for 1 month I mean I'd love to think of a punishment that could effectively punish them statwise, without doing something funky like creating people with lvl 1 herblore with overloads or something. But I just can't think of it.

Probably. But this problem holds true with banning too. Wouldn't they just bot their new account back up? It doesn't solve that issue, but, nothing really does. the hope is that, the symbolic impact of throwing their bank with their own hands is a stronger deterrant to botting than a ban.

That's one of the cons I listed. And the only incentive not to, is the fact that it's quicker to rebuild the locked-down account than make a new one. Emphasis that the destruction box would cash in for what it sells for ;) If it doesn't sell on GE, it doesn't cash in towards your fine in the destruction box. >:] Ah somehow I missed that. Why not just require pure GP, the player can GE all his items? PS: Prepare to be flamed by every would-be skiller because this will drive down the prices of all mats. Manipulation is not a banable or mute-able offense. it causes deflation, it would make the prices of nats go up. edit: oh i missed one of your questions. I don't want to *require* pure gp because I would prefer the destruction of their bank to be a more personal action. Dumping a bunch of GP into a box is very impersonal. Throwing that precious godsword, that served your monster hunting so loyally for all those years, into some "destruction box" holds much stronger symbolic value. But in the end both ways of destroying your bank would be available. Leaving some freedom of choice to the player is important. That and I'm pretty sure manipulation is bannable. Manipulation, relies on lying to other players. Which is essentially scamming. Recruiting for manipulation clans in w2 is definitely mutable. Jagex gave the go ahead for that to their Pmods a while ago. I've seen several Jmod posts clarifying, the natural merchanting is okay, but the pyramid schemes are not.

Thats basically dumping everything he got into ge. and not getting money back for what they dump back :) yes, that's exactly it.

Emphasis that the destruction box would cash in for what it sells for ;) If it doesn't sell on GE, it doesn't cash in towards your fine in the destruction box. >:]

it is entirely off topic :P and shady, there's not much information on the site, and it's very idealistic I stay away from software like that :)

So don't get me wrong. Banning is a perfectly common and acceptable form of punishment in a MMO. But I think there's a two big flaws to it: -items owned by the banned player are lost So lets say Jagex wants to ban a manipulation clan (manipulation is bannable, although merchanting isn't btw). And Jagex bans them while they're buying up godswords. Well if Jagex did that, all the godswords would actually be removed from the economy. Making a buy-out induced godsword shortage, into an actual shortage. The few manipulation clansmen that weren't banned, would make a huge amount of money too. That would not send the right message. -They just make a new account and have fun again. Sure, they lost all the time they spent. But ultimately alot of people play for fun. Simply losing an account doesn't have the same psychological impact on some players as others. Some people can just shrug it off, make a new account, and start enjoying it like nothing happened. So here's what I think is better: Lockdown their account until the gamer pays an in game fine equal to their total bank value. By lockdown I mean: Player receives 10x less Experience. Player has access to only 1 GE trade slot. Player cannot trade, request assistance, etc. Player has a 90% chance of receiving no drops from a given monster or PVP kill. The destruction box: The player puts their items into the destruction box to pay their fine. If a player puts a godsword into the destruction box, the godsword is sold on GE, and the value it sells for is used to pay the fine. The player can alternatively, just pay cash towards the fine. Of course Jagex can store the "punishment fines" in the off chance that they punish the players incorrectly. This isn't favorable for players with anti-junk items (like phats, etc) But remember that the players aren't forced to destroy their items. If they believe they're innocent, they can wait it out, only sell liquid items, and receive the cash back for all the fines they paid once they are proven innocent. Pros: -Psychological If Jagex bans the account, it's very impersonal. It's mean ole jagex reigning in on the poor player, so to speak. Instead, you're making the player punish himself in a sense. That godsword he worked so hard for, well he's the one that's going to have to pick it up, and throw it into the destruction box. -Deflation Deflation is ultimately, a good thing in my opinion. Because it's a lot easier to cause inflation than deflation. Jagex has to invent new content (like construction) to make players willing to give up the cash they worked so hard for. But it takes barely any effort to introduce drops that give players a lot of GPs (pvp statuettes for example) -No More Items Lost Wasn't there a massive spike in rare prices when Duke Freedom (I think that was his name) was banned? Banning removes items from the economy. Removing gp's is fine in my opinion, but banning certain people can change the economy for months. It can change it forever if you remove rares. Cons: -Not as harsh In a completely practical sense, this punishment isn't as harsh as banning. You still keep your account. Instead of losing everything, you just lose a set amount of money -Just make a new account. Like with banning, the player can still just make a new account. -Cheaters Spend All their money on stats. Knowing that if they get locked-down, they will lose all their money. Cheaters would be more inclined to spend all their money (namely on skills that spend money quickly like prayer/herblore). Potentially driving the price of the expensive prayer and herblore sills even higher. But I think that the fact that it is more practical for the player to accept the new punishment than to start anew is a good thing. It's incentive for the player to *accept* the punishment. And that's the main point of the alternative punishment. It seems *less* like Jagex is forcing their punishment on the player (it still is though). But the player is left with some options (What to throw into the destruction box and what not to). To the player, it seems like they are dealing the punishment to themselves to some extent, since they would be the ones choosing what items of their bank to destroy.

You mellowed out, I'd argue that's a good thing ;) people screaming omfg abyssal whip drop! get kinda annoying after a while anyways :)

So I'm looking to get some useful Desktop Apps for Runescape. I tried Rainmeter, but all I managed to get was my adventurer's log. I'm looking to put some more useful information on there though. Namely stuff like the last GE update time (as posted on zybez for example) Or the title of the latest update on the official jagex page. anybody know how I could do something like that?

it's no longer possible to get 2 of the same task in a row anymore.

if they drop commonly wouldnt that mean there are fewer empty slots on the rare drop table? :P

Would you say using a rune crossbow vs using a bronze crossbow comes down to preference? This isn't quantum physics. There is a right answer and there is a wrong answer. The only question is if we know enough information to deduce the correct answer.

did you know the part that the rare drop table only consists of items like rune javelins, half keys, etc. not whips, visages, etc. ROW doesn't actually help boost the drop rate of the truly valuable items.

right, I forgot about the range. But I can't think of many places where that applies. perhaps, if you got skeletal wyverns to drop their agro, you could safespot all their ranged attacks by sheer long-rangeness but im not sure a drop in DPS is ever worth taking less damage.

Dragon Arrows can only be fired by the Dark Bow. ;) touche ;) Guess I won't be getting a longbow sight. Ever :)

That's a big assumption. Though, I could try it when I get the chance. but from a game designing standpoint, what incentive is there to make the system too different? I can understand magic, since andrew would have wanted stronger spells to look different than weaker ones. But when it comes to shooting a bow and swinging a sword, it doesn't really make a difference. It may be a big one, but I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption. so anyways, I did the calc for relative DPS on an target of infinitely high defense. and it came out as follows: Magic Longbow (s) + Dragon arrows: 222 Rune Crossbow + Runite Bolts: 219 Magic Longbow (s) + Runite Arrows: 202 Rune Crossbow + Broad Bolts: 201 Magic Longbow (s) + Broad Arrows: 165 the ranged strength bonus on arrows scales pretty miserably. Dragon arrows are +60 ranged strength, but broad arrows are only 28. OR maybe lets say, that we can't assume that ranged accuracy is calculated the same way as ranged and melee max hits. then consider this: 236 ranged attackbonus with magic longbow(s) versus 194 ranged attack bonus with rune crossbow + unholy book Runite arrows have a Max DPS that is 16% higher than broad bolts. the 236 ranged bonus needs to convey a max accuracy roll that is at least 16% higher than 194 ranged attack bonus in order to have a higher defense on a target of infinitely large defense. you can decide how likely that is.

use your DPS equation and take the limit as target defense approaches infinity. Then see if the magic longbow (s) surpasses the rune crossbow in any circumstances so if DPS(Max Accuracy Roll - Resolution) of the bow is less than DPS * (Max Accuracy Roll - Resolution) of a rune crossbow. Then there exists no situations where the magic longbow (S) > Rune crossbow Unfortunately, I don't know how ranged accuracy works. it'd still work on a dice roll system would it not? Ranged max hit is calculated the same way as melee max hit afterall. I'd imagine it'd work the same way as melee.

use your DPS equation and take the limit as target defense approaches infinity. Then see if the magic longbow (s) surpasses the rune crossbow in any circumstances so if DPS(Max Accuracy Roll - Resolution) of the bow is less than DPS * (Max Accuracy Roll - Resolution) of a rune crossbow. Then there exists no situations where the magic longbow (S) > Rune crossbow

You're seriously telling me that 94 stab + 104 str and 85 stab + 75 str are both better than 107 stab + 120 str with one less speed bar? I'll let you do the dps math yourself. Also, incidentally, my cannon positioning is designed so as not to hit frost dragons in the western section, since there's usually another camper there. Anyways, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, so unless you have an in-depth guide on getting 210+ kills / hr, please find another thread to troll. xpx likes to be loud and troll, but he's still usually right about these things -yes the rapier is definitely better than the longsword. Maybe not the spear, but rapier vs longsword is no contest. -no comment on cannon positioning 160 kills per hour really isn't great if you're meleeing. I've achieved that with a cannon + karils crossbow + extreme ranging potion + 15% range prayer his recommendation for summoning potions was important, since it will let your pack yak cast witner storage more often. if you don't want to get flamed by people like xpx, you really shouldn't label your guide "the fastest, most efficient way to camp them." when it's highly contestable whether or not that is true.