quelmotz

How do you recommend changing this without giving mage even more power at lower levels? That's one of my big concerns. If you just give mage wave spells, then mage will just get stronger at low levels. All you'd do is delay when mage sucks by 10 levels. I'd say, give f2p mage some spells that are equal/slightly more powerful than the wave spells, but they are of a higher level, maybe lvl 75 or so to lvl 90 or so. This will reward those who train mage to high levels, without making it overpowered at low levels. Also, give them snare, and maybe some better armor (don't tell me RC robes for god's sake. I don't see range or melee needing 50 crafting or smithing respectively to wear certain armor). Which fits sees_all's contemporary spellbook and quest almost perfectly except that that spellbook might be a bit "fluffy" with some teleports, skill boosting spells and other stuff.

Ok. To summarise what we've been saying-- Range- Sucks at low levels, average at medium levels, totally destroys the other two styles at high levels. Melee- Not too good at low levels, average at medium levels, better than mage but worse than range at high levels, but the top-notch levels melee rules. Mage- Destroys at low levels, not really good at medium levels, incredibly crappy at high levels, dies even to melee. See a problem yet? Range is constantly improving in power, melee is more or less at the same level, but mage becomes weaker at higher levels!! Then what do you train mage for then? To die a worse death?

You think it was 7k more. Eventually, someone has to question whether it's worth the trouble when you'll jump at every word. Anyway... Here: have fun with 8 pages of replies on this subject: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=750480&hilit=obby+sword And a few numbers: viewtopic.php?t=588556 There you go, just for you quel. Not trying to be nitpicky, but its 4k more, not 7k. That proves my right to question your evidence.

Then show that it IS overpowering mage.

Isnt it +6 for dragon mace? +5 lol we're both wrong. I think I was thinking of the Godsword. Anyway, point being that the prayer bonus counts for a lot. +5 prayer can make your 15% prayers last for a lot longer. Big deal. When you can kill the freaking enemy at least more than 15% faster if you use a scimitar. BOLD Seriously, you're contradicting yourself. You said weapons don't need an update and they're fine as they are, and then you said warhammers require an update but they're balanced? What the hell are you talking about? When did I contradict myself? I stated the first post that I had mixed feelings, and that some weapons should be given a fighting chance. I never stated that warhammers are balanced, if you read it again, you'll see. Firstly, I agree that the 2h doesn't need a balancing, but I never said it did anyway. I believe you said that they should be given the same dps as scimitars, and that "they must have enough str/accuracy/speed to justify the loss of defense." So? It is a fact that they have to have enough str/accuracy to justify the lower speed/defence. They are only used for ko nowadays, and 2h swords weren't used for kos in real life. Warhammers, maces, any other crushing weapons. The problem lies in the fact that their freaking dps isn't even as high as a scimitar when attacking plated opponents. And don't tell me maces are good for prayer bonuses. You are an idiot if you use maces as they are absolutely useless in just about any way. The incredibly insignificant prayer bonuses are negligible, and its stats are one of the crappiest in the history of Runescape. Furthermore, its slow. Maces aren't crappy priest weapons, they are brutal, [bleep]ed clubs capable of shattering plated armor into pieces. So are warhammers. Whereas in Runescape these weapons are depicted as rubbish worthy of only stupid priests and dumb idiots. +8 prayer is not negligible. +8? Big deal. Refer to above. Plus you stated all the reasons why I think they should be given a boost, just that the mace be given smaller boosts than the other 2 because it has prayer bonus. You know what? I already mentioned all these stuff in my "crushing and stabbing weapons never used" thread in the rants forum. The shortsword. Fast, accurate, easy to carry. Though it doesn't deliver much of a strong attack, a stab in a vital organ can easily kill. Unlike shortswords in Runescape, these weapons are deadly in the hands of a master. In Runescape, shortswords are the poor man's longsword, when these weapons serve ENTIRELY different purposes in real life. Yeah so do rings. What the hell are you talking about. The longsword. A knight's friend. Strong, accurate, and reasonably easy to use and carry, these weapons are basically balanced. So they are in Runescape, but they probably require a small boost. Ok that's what I said though... As I said, sonic3190 said it first. So don't act like you said it first when he said it first. The dagger. Deadly when used correctly. Although it is faster and as accurate as a shortsword, it is even easier to carry and can even be thrown (but who cares). It can't be used to defend oneself, but its speed, accuracy and deadliness when used correctly makes it a very useful weapon. It can be poisoned, fair enough, I think. Ahem...f2p? Seriously this thread is about f2p so shut up about poisoning. The spear. The standard weapon of issue to Roman and Chinese foot soldiers. How could it be such a crappy weapon in Runescape? It is powerful, accurate, and can be used for defending. It can also be thrown (but who cares, anyway), and used in conjunction with a shield. A boost to stab accuracy and strength will be needed, and decrease in crush/slash accuracy. I agree here, but it's still primarily defensive in nature. I think you said earlier that it should be something other than defense. I don't think so. It's main purpose is defense. Those Roman and Chinese armies carried swords for closer range attacks. Primarily used for defense? Why the hell is it called a "weapon" for then? Really, your comments make no sense. Spears are good for both attack and defence, and are probably one of the most balanced 2handed weapons IRL. Claws. Rarely used in real life, but probably deadly still. Because of the claws attachment to the user's hands, it will be VERY VERY fast, faster than a dagger. The power will also be higher, with increased accuracy, but the downside is it is 2 handed. Lol, ancient armies used claws irl? They don't, but I used common SENSE. Don't increase the accuracy or power, that would make more people rant about d claws. Nerf the spec but increase the base power. Battleaxes. Brutal weapons used by barbarians, these weapons are powerful, but heavy and not very accurate. They should be weaker than Warhammers but faster, and about the same accuracy. Cool. See above post on maces. And? Do they give +5/+ whatever to prayer? No. Halberds. Long polearms with high strength and accuracy, but are slow and 2handed. They should have higher power, but a small boost to make them as useful as 2h swords would be enough. They have ranged-capabilities. That makes up for some. Who cares. Look at how often this is used. Anyway, I'm f2p so I don't care about this. I have already stated all the reasonings for the balance of the weapons. The battleaxe, 2h sword and scimitar could just be left alone, maybe longswords too. The others HAVE to be balanced, or else they'll just be wasting space. Now don't tell me that so-and-so weapon doesn't deserve a re-balancing unless you provide proper reasoning, not like the stupid reasoning behind why maces should be left alone. Would you like numbers on my statements? I can give it to you. You need to learn to do something instead of saying that you can do something. Talk is cheap. Don't just think about f2p either, remember any chances would carry over to p2p weapons (dragon). Just take note of that. Then make them not carry over for some that would be overpowered.

You think it was 7k more.

Seriously, you're contradicting yourself. You said weapons don't need an update and they're fine as they are, and then you said warhammers require an update but they're balanced? What the hell are you talking about? Firstly, I agree that the 2h doesn't need a balancing, but I never said it did anyway. Warhammers, maces, any other crushing weapons. The problem lies in the fact that their freaking dps isn't even as high as a scimitar when attacking plated opponents. And don't tell me maces are good for prayer bonuses. You are an idiot if you use maces as they are absolutely useless in just about any way. The incredibly insignificant prayer bonuses are negligible, and its stats are one of the crappiest in the history of Runescape. Furthermore, its slow. Maces aren't crappy priest weapons, they are brutal, [bleep]ed clubs capable of shattering plated armor into pieces. So are warhammers. Whereas in Runescape these weapons are depicted as rubbish worthy of only stupid priests and dumb idiots. The shortsword. Fast, accurate, easy to carry. Though it doesn't deliver much of a strong attack, a stab in a vital organ can easily kill. Unlike shortswords in Runescape, these weapons are deadly in the hands of a master. In Runescape, shortswords are the poor man's longsword, when these weapons serve ENTIRELY different purposes in real life. The longsword. A knight's friend. Strong, accurate, and reasonably easy to use and carry, these weapons are basically balanced. So they are in Runescape, but they probably require a small boost. The dagger. Deadly when used correctly. Although it is faster and as accurate as a shortsword, it is even easier to carry and can even be thrown (but who cares). It can't be used to defend oneself, but its speed, accuracy and deadliness when used correctly makes it a very useful weapon. The spear. The standard weapon of issue to Roman and Chinese foot soldiers. How could it be such a crappy weapon in Runescape? It is powerful, accurate, and can be used for defending. It can also be thrown (but who cares, anyway), and used in conjunction with a shield. A boost to stab accuracy and strength will be needed, and decrease in crush/slash accuracy. Claws. Rarely used in real life, but probably deadly still. Because of the claws attachment to the user's hands, it will be VERY VERY fast, faster than a dagger. The power will also be higher, with increased accuracy, but the downside is it is 2 handed. Battleaxes. Brutal weapons used by barbarians, these weapons are powerful, but heavy and not very accurate. They should be weaker than Warhammers but faster, and about the same accuracy. Halberds. Long polearms with high strength and accuracy, but are slow and 2handed. They should have higher power, but a small boost to make them as useful as 2h swords would be enough. I have already stated all the reasonings for the balance of the weapons. The battleaxe, 2h sword and scimitar could just be left alone, maybe longswords too. The others HAVE to be balanced, or else they'll just be wasting space. Now don't tell me that so-and-so weapon doesn't deserve a re-balancing unless you provide proper reasoning, not like the stupid reasoning behind why maces should be left alone.

bump

I don't know why is it sooooo hard to get it into people's head that we want BALANCED weapons, not changing the position of weapon usefulness and the "king" of all weapons. Balanced weapons is to say Weapon A: Stab+200 Slash+0 Crush+0 ... Strength +200 Weapon B: Slash+200 Strength+200 Weapon C: Crush +200 Strength +200 There might be other influences due to speed, specials, ability to poison, 2handedness, etc. However, the point is all the weapons must have around equal dps, and 2h weapon must have enough str/accuracy/speed to justify the loss of defence. First off, I know it was only an example, but I hope you aren't serious about 200 strength bonus. I'll consider it just a miscalculation. In short, no, the weapons do not need to be balanced. SOME of them could use an upgrade, but not so much to be able to compete with the more expensive weapons of the same metal. Here's what I mean. Dagger/Shortsword/Longsword: Essentially 3 parts of the same whole. The shortsword is simply an improvement over the dagger, at the cost of a little money, and the longsword is a more expensive improvement over the shortsword. Now, don't get me wrong. The longsword should be able to compete with the scimitar (except using stab, not slash. Longswords aren't made to slash). But the dagger and shortsword should not be able to compete with the longsword. Also remember that different items have DIFFERENT uses. The 2h is a KO weapon, so it should not have the same dps as say, scimitars or longswords. You trade off speed and defense to be able to land more accurate, and much stronger, hits. Let me put this into perspective. I can hit 22s with my R scim using basic f2p supplies and strength potion. I can hit around 30 if I pop on a R2h. Now some items, I agree, neither have alternate uses nor get "evolved", so to speak. These items are currently used for nothing, such as the battleaxe. These items should get a small boost so they can compete with the longsword/scimitar. The warhammer, imo, should also. But then you have to remember that those items are CRUSH weapons, and they serve a unique purpose-to counter plate armor. For god's sake how can the weapons not need a rebalancing. Name me one proper use for a mace, warhammer, sq shield, claw (no spec), dagger (no spec), shortsword, spear and chainmail. Don't tell me "different weapons have different uses" if you can't give an example of how to use those weapons stated above. The dagger and shortsword should have their own area of speciality that the longsword isn't good at. Daggers are fast. Undisputed fact. So make them faster than the freaking scimitar. At least 2 bars faster. Shortswords are faster than longs but slower than daggers, so make them that, and boost something to make them more worth it. Don't say a warhammer or battleaxe is good for countering plate armor when it is obvious the freaking overpowered scimitar does more damage on a plated enemy than a warhammer does. Crap.

First off, I didn't hear that Compfreak had left TIF, so don't blame me. He didn't have some huge "I am leaving TIF now" thread as far as I know. I'm not blaming you, I'm just informing you. Sorry if I sounded like I was accusing you of something. That wasn't my intention, my bad. Arguably speaking, the end justifies the means, but would you feel good getting a million dollars in real life by doing something against you conscience? No. Back to topic, I doubt you could get 300-400k in f2p with level 1s across the board in 5-6 hours. I can't even earn 150k/h or so in f2p. I don't see where you're going with the first one, since training magic isn't "evil". Also, you can make decent money in f2p (40-60-70k per hour) with all level 1s and 10 hp. Examples are tanning cowhides, making soft clay, etc. Plus once you do have the money, merchanting sets is easy, quick, and decent money as well. Sure, it's possible. And once you get a few little levels, you can add another 10k cash per hour plus xp. So yes, 300-400k isn't hard to come by in f2p. 150k per hour would make 300-400k 2-3 hours. I said 5-6 hours. And if you mine gold ore, you can make pretty close to 150k, ok maybe not as close as you would like. But upwards of 100k. If you're really dedicated to mining, addy and rune make just as much and more than gold. After you run out of deaths and airs? Then? Mysterious appearance of runes in your inventory? 300 shots isn't going to last very long, I can tell you. 100 deaths evaporates in 10-15 min of clanwarring, from my experiences. 300 isn't going to last more than an hour, unless you're a hit-and-run coward. What are we talking about here, a career in pking? Well if you had no more money then what? You'd go make some of course. I'm just saying the minimum stuff a mage has to do to go on his first pking trip, and 300 shots lasts plenty. No duh it's not going to last CLANWARRING, when you're constantly in combat. Are you always fighting someone in the wild? No. Over half the time you're looking for someone to fight. Plus, you aren't level 35. You aren't fighting people with lower than 30 hp. You can't kill your opponents in 2 hits. For a low level pure match, you'd need maybe 30-50 casts, in my experience, to finish a fight. No more than that. 300 casts can easily last an hour, unless you get a lot of fights. It is an UNDISPUTED fact that mage costs the most, almost irregardless of what you're doing. Training? All you need for melee is a infinite-term investment of 200-300k, and some food and pots. For mage, you need some incredibly overcosted runes, a heck lot of food, and training on monsters isn't even effective :roll: Pking? Burning 300gp x 300 deaths and 1500 x 12gp per hour isn't any cheap crap. 100k per hour for god's sake. In 3-4 hours you're about evened out with meleers who bought full rune. Any experienced mage would have burned a few million when the meleer is enjoying the luxury of his impossible (but still possible for some strange reason) undegradeable armor and weapons. Did I ever say to train on monsters? You have to be a [developmentally delayed] to train mage on monsters, unless you are a member an ice bursting rock lobsters. But I'm getting OT, so let's refocus. Training mage, I'll state again, CAN be relatively inexpensive. Once again, cast curse on the Zamorak Monk. This is very cheap. I remember when I was a little newcomer, this got me from 19-55 (wanted high alch) in a week. Must've cost me 200k back then, but I bought my runes from shops, so it was cheaper. Nowadays, the cost is somewhere around 300-400k, but remains one of the best methods for mage pures. You also have superheating mith once you get that spell. Sure you need the smithing level, but Knight's Sword + a little extra investment solves that problem. I was just giving an example. You still can't dispute the fact that mage costs the most, almost irregardless of what you're doing with it. What about pking? You can't dispute the fact that its not worth it with this current pking system where mage is useless in terms of cost-efficiency. Mage costs far more than its payoff.

At low levels mage is still dominant. There you go. As low as combat in the low 30s, mages can get 59 magic, leading to hitting 16s. That means mages can easily smack 20s by combat 40s. Too much too soon. The only 2 things mage needs: 1. Snare 2. Better defense robes Those two alone would allow mage to get back into the picture at high levels. Mage needs a better ko spell at higher levels... and wave isn't really that high, so either we increase the level required to cast wave spells or add some REALLY high level spells that can smack 20+ but not incredibly accurately. Don't tell me this will make mage pwn range, range hits accurate and fast 18s with medium defence, and that is far better than inaccurate 20s and lower defence.

First off, I didn't hear that Compfreak had left TIF, so don't blame me. He didn't have some huge "I am leaving TIF now" thread as far as I know. Arguably speaking, the end justifies the means, but would you feel good getting a million dollars in real life by doing something against you conscience? No. Back to topic, I doubt you could get 300-400k in f2p with level 1s across the board in 5-6 hours. I can't even earn 150k/h or so in f2p. After you run out of deaths and airs? Then? Mysterious appearance of runes in your inventory? 300 shots isn't going to last very long, I can tell you. 100 deaths evaporates in 10-15 min of clanwarring, from my experiences. 300 isn't going to last more than an hour, unless you're a hit-and-run coward. It is an UNDISPUTED fact that mage costs the most, almost irregardless of what you're doing. Training? All you need for melee is a infinite-term investment of 200-300k, and some food and pots. For mage, you need some incredibly overcosted runes, a heck lot of food, and training on monsters isn't even effective :roll: Pking? Burning 300gp x 300 deaths and 1500 x 12gp per hour isn't any cheap crap. 100k per hour for god's sake. In 3-4 hours you're about evened out with meleers who bought full rune. Any experienced mage would have burned a few million when the meleer is enjoying the luxury of his impossible (but still possible for some strange reason) undegradeable armor and weapons.

No way. So in the end who is the weakest? Mage. And 70 strength requires virtually no investment, except some armor and foodstuff, but 59 mage is VERY VERY VERY expensive for f2p. And how can fire blast average 16s at level 59? You need at least 70 or so mage to average 16s. Really, you're over-exaggerating the power of mage. It costs huge amounts of money and the payoff is low. And did you ever hear of something called RATE OF ATTACKING (speed)? Really, I'm sick of these debates on whether mage is underpowered or not. I believe that mage is underpowered. Period. I don't care what you think. * note that all references to "mage" here is regarding f2p. I know you and compfreak have a certain tendency to go on long debates and I DO NOT WANT to waste my time going around in circles in such debates, which might lead to flame wars. You...should get better informed first....oh if you don't want to start a "long debate" just skip to the 2nd to last paragraph. You have been "warned". We are not talking about efficiency here. Who cares if mage costs more? The point is that it's strong. Sure mage costs a lot, what are you trying to say? Have Jagex give us 1k free runes every day? Cost is not part of the issue here. You can hit 16s at level 59 with fire blast. Period. That's undisputed. I never said it was an average, I said it was the MAX. Melee can hit 22s with r scim at 99 strength w/ potion. Does that mean it AVERAGES 22s? No, that means that it CAN hit 22s. Same thing here. Mage doesn't average 16s with fire blast, but it has the potential to hit a 16. No other combat stat can offer that much damage at such a low level. Yeah rate of speed. What's your point? Mage still destroys range and melee until high levels. Mage still gives better damage per second until those higher levels. Then once you give mage better robes and snare, mage can compete, at least, at those higher levels. You can believe that magic is underpowered. Fine. You're allowed to have your own opinion. My opinion is that it's only underpowered at high levels, and is perhaps even overpowered at lower levels. If you don't care about what other people think and you don't even want to consider listening, that's simply crude ignorance and the inability to consider other points of view. Which is fine, except when you keep going around and telling others that you're right. If you're going to tell everyone that mage is underpowered and you are NOT willing to listen to others, well I can't help you there, but I'm just going to tell you that it's extremely irrational and extremely...well, [developmentally delayed], if you want me to speak the truth. I don't flame. The last time I was actually yelling at someone over the internet was, well, I'd have to say when my friend decided to get himself killed in the abyss like an idiot. Even that was more of a lecture on stupidity. If you really don't want to debate that's fine. I know I have a tendency to type of long (arguably unnecessary) replies. If you don't want to deal with me, that's fine. I'm perfectly ok with that, and I'd understand your decision (maybe even make the same if I were you). And don't compare me to Compfreak, I'm not that good :lol: But just know this: while you can hold your own opinion, you should still keep an open mind. Your may be right, but just know that you also may the wrong. I would like to say that while I agree that magic is underpowered at higher levels, that does not mean it is underpowered as a whole. If you are not willing to listen, fine. But that kinda disqualifies you from telling others that you are right... Money is a huge factor is pvp, btw. What about I give you a melee set with stats Stab+400 Slash +400 Crush +400 Def (all) +2000 Strength +500 Small print: Cost=10 billion gp. This example might be extreme, but I'm just stating a clear point. MAGIC COSTS TOO MUCH FOR ITS EFFICIENCY. Magic is one of the most powerful ways of attacking out there, but it is damn expensive, and only rich people like compfreak can use them. This makes almost the whole skill obsolete, with only rich people being able to use the spells.

Yeah.

Bump \

Eye problems? No wonder you didn't read the posts properly. I don't need to argue with you. Seriously don't tell me what to do and to calm down or whatever. I didn't hire a psychiatrist. Who cares, just focus on the main matter-that is mage. Then list them... talk is cheap.

I don't know why is it sooooo hard to get it into people's head that we want BALANCED weapons, not changing the position of weapon usefulness and the "king" of all weapons. Balanced weapons is to say Weapon A: Stab+200 Slash+0 Crush+0 ... Strength +200 Weapon B: Slash+200 Strength+200 Weapon C: Crush +200 Strength +200 There might be other influences due to speed, specials, ability to poison, 2handedness, etc. However, the point is all the weapons must have around equal dps, and 2h weapon must have enough str/accuracy/speed to justify the loss of defence.

THIS IS the best news for people who believe mage needs balancing! Like me, sees_all, elusefelier, etc. This is COLD, HARD, SOLID, UNFLAPPABLE, CONCRETE evidence that Jagex believes mage is underpowered. In your face, those who say mage doesn't deserve an update.

No way. So in the end who is the weakest? Mage. And 70 strength requires virtually no investment, except some armor and foodstuff, but 59 mage is VERY VERY VERY expensive for f2p. And how can fire blast average 16s at level 59? You need at least 70 or so mage to average 16s. Really, you're over-exaggerating the power of mage. It costs huge amounts of money and the payoff is low. And did you ever hear of something called RATE OF ATTACKING (speed)? Really, I'm sick of these debates on whether mage is underpowered or not. I believe that mage is underpowered. Period. I don't care what you think. * note that all references to "mage" here is regarding f2p. I know you and compfreak have a certain tendency to go on long debates and I DO NOT WANT to waste my time going around in circles in such debates, which might lead to flame wars.

Yes it is. Why don't you shut the hell up and the get the hell out of my thread. Its not like if we get an update you don't. F2p mage deserves and update after waiting SO long. P2P mage would also be updated. The new spellbook would definitely come with p2p spells. So shut up and get lost. There is no need for selfish idiots in this thread. So what if f2p gets an update? P2P usually gets the longer end of the stick. Everyone is happy, except for some idiots like you who are NEVER satisfied. Get lost and play another game then, but the point is you'll never be satisfied. Summary: Get the hell out of this thread. I agree that f2p isn't a demo but he gave reasons for his argument and your reply is basically "get the hell out of my thread". talk about overreacting your social skills amaze me. BTW you should get some lessons on how to read its amazing how useful it is, he never said (well, in the post you were quoting at any rate) that F2P shouldn't get an update but instead that it was a demo. On topic, i don't think f2p mage is thhhat underpowered i mean i think blast is good enough, your not going to see much f2p's hit 16 with a rune scimmy and 56 strength. i think f2p should get snare or entangle however and armour similar or slightly better than druidic/combat robes that doesn't degrade. Who cares whether F2P is a demo or not. Look a few posts above you and you'll SEE COLD HARD CONCRETE EVIDENCE that f2p mage will be balanced. So shut up. F2P mage isn't balanced and there is no need for idiots like you telling me that it is balanced. Even Mod MMG, the CEO of Runescape said it himself. So don't tell me anything. The CEO's decision is final. F2P MAGE IS NOT BALANCED! Really, learn to spell. Yeah, very true. What kind of crap is this? If you can't think of anything constructive to say, just shut up. Oh yes, all of your posts were constructive. :roll: Oh yes, all of YOUR posts were constructive. :roll: Wow... you are really nice aren't you. BTW that doesn't really work because he never denied that his posts weren't constructive he's just pointing out that you are hyprocrite lol Wow...whats your IQ? 10? He said my posts were not constructive and according to you he never denied that his posts weren't constructive, so it means his posts are not constructive and he is criticizing people of posting nonconstructive posts? That's what I call hypocritical. He's critisising YOU for being a hypocrite, you basically described yourself right there. You said his posts were not constructive yet not all your posts aren't constructive either, which he was just pointing out. And just because someone disagreed with you doesn't make it unconstructive. What a loser seriously try calming down plox, you're going to end up killing someone and going to jail one day. Really, I think your IQ is one or something now. CAN'T YOU READ? HE STARTED SAYING ALL MY POSTS WERE NOT CONSTRUCTIVE AND I JUST RETALIATED. I NEVER STATED ANYTHING ABOUT HIS FREAKING POSTS BEING NON-CONSTRUCTIVE EARLIER ON. I WAS SPEAKING TO ANOTHER PERSON WHO SAID LUNAR SPELLBOOK (WHICH WASN'T EVEN RELATED TO THE TOPIC ANYWAY), IN CASE YOU ARE BLIND OR ILLITERATE (HOW ARE YOU GOING TO READ THIS IF YOU'RE ILLITERATE ANYWAY, BUT WHO CARES).

The concept of the idea is good IMO, but melee doesn't need it, mage/range does. Especially mage. You have no idea how powerful mage can be, do you? You have no idea how OVERLY powerful melee can be (compared to mage in f2p), do you?

Yeah its a public area and there is no sign saying "first come first serve-if you don't get a private rock, please change worlds-by jagex law".

Why don't you all stupid complainers shut up and go and write an article/paper like the second one, and go and try to compare whatever crap, addy bolts, armadyl bow, whatever you want to compare and see how hard it is to do it? Don't go and flame people's article as pointless when you DON'T even understand what the hell is it talking about. To summarize for you idiots who can't bother to read and comprehend. The Zanik's crossbow is very cost-efficient when used with bone bolts, but it is weak in comparison with the Rune crossbow with broad bolts. However, bone bolts + zanik crossbow is cheap so it offers a cheap alternative for poorer p2pers or those who can't use rune crossbow. Seriously, why the hell are you saying people only care about cost? If so, then everyone will just walk around with wooden shortbows and bronze arrows, or training bows and arrows. Its a balance between cost and xp, and richer people can afford to get more xp by paying more, and poorer people will use those with low cost but as a result get lower xp. Even an f2p player can understand the article better than those p2pers.

And i think your an idiot. P2p are generally nice, we talk to each other, we ARE mean, and so are f2p players, GOP, coal mining, iron mining, yews, FOG are all examples of f2p idiocy. And judging by the RSOF, the only reason f2p players are more mature is because only high level f2p players were allowed in. If ALL players were allowed in, i think we would see the true side of f2p come out. Sorry f2pers, but your community is a hole in the ground compared to p2p's slightly lesser hole in the ground. I could start a long debate with you about this subject but I'm too tired so I'll spare you. F2P and P2P communities are roughly the same.

The concept of the idea is good IMO, but melee doesn't need it, mage/range does. Especially mage.