Sy_Accursed

I don't think you can blame people on forums for it really. I mean just go look at the thing, there's a sign outside posting deaths and you only see like 15 or so a day and 99/100 if you go inside Vorago is there waiting quite happily to start a fight and you don't see no graves or anyone coming in geared up. That level of quietness is showing that a lot of serious pvmers aren't doing it, let alone 'joe bloggs.' Compare that to any other top end boss where 9/10 it's busy with players on most servers at most any time of day. It's not necessarily that Vorago is hard per say it's that your talking 15-20 minutes a kill with a 1/40ish drop rate on the 'good' stuff. The time just mounts up and makes it tricky to obtain and keep a decent team for several rounds of kills, outside of really serious do nothing but pvm types. Then when you weigh off that fact against the rarity of the drops it just doesn't seem worth the effort for the average scaper as you could be lucky to get a kill or 2 a day and then there's the utter potluck of the drop, even to the extent that the normal drops may not really compensate your effort. Again comparatively you could quite easily find a team to go for many more kills at other bosses and with more kills coming in the odds of decent remuneration from normal drops are higher coupled with great chance of getting a big drop in a shorter time span. Finding a reliable enough team to achieve good returns for your invested time can seem rather daunting and hopeless outside of pvm circles. I mean if I asked around my clan/friends I'd probably be hard pressed to get enough people together at the same time to even get in there let alone surviving long enough for multiple kills to get some drops where as I could get enough to slaughter gwd or nex or w/e quite easily. A boss like Vorago relies on having those teams that sadly just don't work as well in Rs as they do in other games unless you are on the inside of some pvm communities or have a core of pvming friends, combine that with the luckscape factor weaker monsters rely on to avoid flooding the market and you end up with a boss that not enough people are killing with a drop that isn't being gotten enough allowing prices to go stupidly high; pushed higher still by the issues of the over inflated economy which are kind of ironically only worsened by people being able to get a nest egg of billions from such a drop.

I don't see whats so wrong with Jagex being the gold seller. Comparatively to gold seller sites it means more money goes in to the game to improve development and it is not outright mass gold production like the bots are. The gold has to already exist in the game, so is unlikely to of been mass harvested by botting; plus the gold value is only created by the players who want to convert their in-game wealth in to membership or coins or spins. If those players didn't exist bonds would be worth nothing in gold. Seems like a fine system to me in that unlike rwt sites that rely on botting and such to create masses of gp the economy can't really sustain bonds are essentially neutral. If player A bought members and player B sitting there with their 7m doing nothing, it's not really any different to player A having the 7m and player B the members via the exchange of a bond. Plus its a system a lot of other games use quite successfully to help combat gold farming/selling so why not use it to help solve the problem?

You'll note I said 'if the game design had not made them fairly rare' not drop rates specifically. And I am perfectly aware of that update, it was the reactionary change that lead to power armour and tank armour in responce to the whining about nex armours losing value quite rapidly when they became out classed by ports armours.

Mainly because everyone's lazy and can't be bothered to run for an extra 20 seconds to loot the Zammy camp. :P Perfect example is how long it took to get the straw resources...a lot of people just waiting at the stack for them. Tbf that was also exacerbated by it kind of breaking the explained format of the event. We were instructed to collect resources from the camps and ruins to supply the building, straw was not in that remit. Of course this was then further aggravated by the fact you can't actually get straw and you had to get wheat, all of which was neatly behind dialogue which people are oh so found of spamming through then moaning they don't know what to do. Zammy camp has certainly started vanishing recently though, a good number of tents and like 1/3 of the fence have gone last I checked; still a lot left though compared to Sara which is literally just 1 wall at the far side.

It's 1/40 for orb or wand and more like 3.5b/80kills so 43.75m/kill., 29m/hour. Reducing the price of seismics by a factor of 10 would bring it down to 2.9m/hour, less than Frost dragons, Glacors, Nex, QBD, KK and even some herblore. The price is only that high anyway due to the price people are willing to pay, this is the community's decision not Jagex's, they should not interfere with the market. Look at what happened with climbing boots, the nex update, it all screwed a lot of people over. Vorago isn't hard, its just finding a team who can boss with you for a decent period of time. Its never just the community's decision. There is a community aspect, but like all items supply and demand matters. Drop rates and boss mechanics will always have a huge part in determining what the overall price would be. If Jagex doubled the drop rate, the community would still be willing to pay the same amount but you'd have more on the market so the bossers would have to start selling to those unwilling to pay max cash once those willing to pay max cash had their wands. You act like the drop rate is pure and perfect and sent from god, that any change in it is unnatural tampering. Jagex created the drop rate and could fix this issue by changing it. Yeah is its kinda foolish to say prices are 100% defined by the community. They are defined equally by the community and by the game design combined into supply and demand Supply is dictated both by how many players are creating the item and by how easy (or not) the item is to create. Demand is dictated in equally parts by how many players want the item (and thus what the uber richies will pay dictates price for most high end things) and by how useful the item is. Seismics would be nowhere near as high if the game design had not made the fairly rare to obtain AND highly useful thereby creating quite a limited supply against a rather large demand. Of course after Jagex have released it to the market the community does take over, but the limitations of the item by game design still play a large factor. Plus I do not think it is fair to accuse Jagex of messing with the market with things like Nex alterations. Jagex has every right to alter items, bosses or any other content within reason - the fact this may have knock on effects to supply and demand combined with panic selling/buying to create market fluctuation isn't their fault. The community makes that happen. People who cry about top end changes costing them money because they didn't react fast enough to me are just annoying. Half the time the prices rebound anyway and, at the end of the day, its part of an MMORPG's nature. You can't expect things to stay stable and in place forever, your always one update away from your bank being rendered useless or made worth a whole lot more. Attempts to force this to happen just result in even messy updates eg power armour tank armour update that rendered most armours useless in a reactionary move to appease Nex owners when prices started to slide due to Pop gear because heaven forbid their armour becomes less valuable once it was no longer the best in-game.

Since it is due to end this week I doubt the collecting resources for the 'next building project' is an actual thing and more just 'there's still a way to ear your daily points til it ends' Unless of course there is some 'hidden' building project that will be put in-game based on how much excess resources we gather/how clear the camps are.

- Doesn't matter - No -Does kind of matter the taverly boat is nearer to a homeport than lumbridge and your lumbridge map is rather outdated as is; the homeport point moved several months ago. Not to mention outright newbs begin the game in Burthorpe/Taverly now so the Taverly boat is more at hand and accessible to them opposed to seeking out Lumbridge.

Not something you can actively pursue really. Special voyages automatically scale to your maximum region, so staying in an earlier region won't help you get easier scrolls. The only thing you can do is make sure you prioritise scroll voyages to ensure you complete as many as possible before the regions unlock.

Dam side swapping mid fight would make it far more combos to deal with; thought I suppose in many ways it also simplifies things as it is simply one combo to prepare for: all 6 at once. (7 if Akrisae rocked up) On the if akrisae thing I worked out without duplicates at 3 a side there is 128 combinations. Made a mistake in my original there is 4 possible combos with each of the 34 (for 136) with 8 duplicates.

Mastering it could be quite interesting as (assuming Akrisae isn't thrown in) there still is 20 combinations of brothers to master in terms of how they stack up together (technically 40 if you count unique per side, but the later 20 match the top 20 just with inverted sides). Akrisae would certainly make it insane though it offers 34 unique side A variants each of which can then have 3 different side Bs (assuming 3 bros a side holds true) for a total of 102 variations (They'll be a few inverse side duplicates in that, not worked out how many yet). Would maybe good if they ever decided to strap a hard mode on to it when we have higher gear out.

Though this will be locked at first and does not unlock until you have traveled far enough to unlock the 2nd region.

Interesting that the shields don't degrade to dust and are upgrades to the DG ones, one way to attempt to give DG some beyond t80 longevity. Of course horribly floored in that shields are utterly useless at present, but a gesture at least.

Build an adventure themepark in the crater to help the duke refill his coffers?

How they showed the art in Runefest: The robe with wound thing is both post-stabbing and how Zaros might possible look when we returns, but was primarily done as a concept for how he looked rather than how he will look. The black and purple smoke thing is his current incorporeal form, how he actually ends up body-wise on his return will depend on our choices within a quest. The more support we give the better the body essentially. The similarities between Seren and Zaros is rather intriguing, it would imply they are of somewhat similar origins. I wonder if they are genuine equal and opposites. Seren/crystal has been given associations with light and peace, whilst Zaros/shadow has the darker/warrier connotations. Certainly goes a way to explain why Seren is such a high tier and would certainly make it much more plausible she can be successfully reconstructed. I wonder if their origins is sort of two opposing ideologies of the Elder gods in how to command/control the life forms they created before both were ultimately deemed ineffective hence their final 'perfect' creation (Gielinor) being left empty of life.

And this kinda of response is where people are as dense as a brick wall and do not get the point: The point is not we are 'whining' or could just be doing it or people 'cheating,' its not even whether or not we are or are not making the money. The point is we SHOULDN'T have to spend hours doing something we don't enjoy, we SHOULD be able to earn equally regardless of what avenue of the game we enjoy the most. If we all just accept the unbalanced status quo and make do and say nothing how do we expect it to get fixed? Except that doesn't work for any game. There will always have to be something in the way, whether or not you enjoy it, to get the best items in any game. Also, you forget that the point of this game is to get people playing as long as possible. Even without you getting the best items, and even though you are mad, you still are playing right? If you had all the best items, there is less of a chance of you playing. It's just how it works. And it's funny how I didn't include in my original statement that I barely play and when I do it's not even a crazy amount, so everyone assumes I play runescape like it's a full time job. Meanwhile if I log in, many of the people I see complaining will be on at that given moment. Now how about that? It took time yes, but I still got what I wanted. No one has patience, it's all about instant gratification. And the brick walls gets thicker. Your argument only has any point if we are asking for instant gratification and things to be easy. That is N O T what is being asked for. We are quite happy that you have to work for top end gear, thats fine. Thats great. Thats how the game should be. The point we are addressing in Runescape is a game where you pick how you play. Do you quest? Skill? Pvm? Pvp? etc. However money making to afford top end things is entirely railroaded into pvm. The point is this is wrong, we should have money making options of equal merit across all the avenues of play. Be you a fisher, a smither, a skill pure, a pvper or a pvmer. All your arguments are based on the assumption we just want to be handed things with zero work this is just flat out not true. Its almost the exact opposite of our point. We WANT to work for it we just don't believe it is right that money making should be entirely railroaded in to 1 specific play style so that if you happen to utterly hate that or are no good at it you are at a distinct disadvantage regardless of how you enjoy and perform in other aspects of the game.

And this kinda of response is where people are as dense as a brick wall and do not get the point: The point is not we are 'whining' or could just be doing it or people 'cheating,' its not even whether or not we are or are not making the money. The point is we SHOULDN'T have to spend hours doing something we don't enjoy, we SHOULD be able to earn equally regardless of what avenue of the game we enjoy the most. If we all just accept the unbalanced status quo and make do and say nothing how do we expect it to get fixed?

This more belongs in Website corrections, I think people have misunderstood you unfortunately. The point being made, to my understanding is the main tip.it website no longer has a quest guide for the Black Knights Fortress, but in the quest database (and in there news archive from what I can see) there is no actual link to any published Death of Chivalry guide either. Not sure if this is a blunder in it not being written or just some how making it public got missed, but its definitely missing at this point.

I can see why bol and this would cause lag though they are aggregating data from all the gameworlds to make changes, that's gotta be a bit data straining in some ways. Less so for bol as it was only changing score bar and vote tallys, but for this it's gotta aggregate input to work out the percentage of the task done, make sure the tasks change across servers as near as possible to simultaneously and on the fly work out what exactly to render of the various repair projects and dismantlements by again aggregating stuff from all servers.

Why do pvmers want max skills when they don't like anything but pvm? Why do people who dislike questing still want comp cape? etc. People like to 'complete' the game - part of that is getting the best of everything. Plus just because it isn't your favourite thing doesn't mean you won't do it from time to time anyway, but there is a difference between doing it once in a while with friends and being forced to grind it for hours to have any hope of affording stuff when in all reality all aspects of the game ought to be giving similar profitability. Can agree with you that everyone wants the best stuff ofcourse - but part of what makes things the best is the 'grind' behind getting it... the easier it is to get, the more it gets devalued not just economically. If all aspects of this game were balanced, I assume your talking pvm wise here.. were would the fun be in that? Also do remember Vorago takes at least 5 people, if a wand was 200m or whatever you claim as a reasonable price it wouldn't really be worth the time/ effort at all. No-one is saying get rid of the grind or bottom out prices. We are talking of balance across the entire game. As it stands you merch or you pvm or you don't make that kind of money. Merching shouldn't be quite so profitable really, or more restricted, to many because its kinda stupid you can stand around for 5 mins not really 'playing' and become far richer than those who do play the agame actively. Equally skills need something in them to compare to pvm for cash flow, and all the top end stuff shouldn't be entirely pvm exclusive (eg d picks and d hatchets are even dictated by pvm) Only a very minor part of it is stuff 'costing to much' - that's almost exclusively an issue with Seismic. The trouble is it is unfair that you put a bit of effort in to one branch of the game and can be set for your entire rs career off a drop or two, whilst other branches you can slog for months or years at the top end and make virtually nothing. This is a game where they actively promote playing your way and not having to do everything if you don't want to; but you can't do that at all in the end game because pvm vs skills is horribly unbalanced. But yes, since you brought it up, there does need to be a level of balance within pvm itself. As eoc is fundamentally based on everything within a tier being equal it is a major issue that drygores are only 150m, ascensions 250m and seismics 1bil. Especially as we move forward and (hopefully) garner more monsters with higher defences that have weaknesses that make it necessary to observe class, if not exact, weaknesses to optimise dps.

Why do pvmers want max skills when they don't like anything but pvm? Why do people who dislike questing still want comp cape? etc. People like to 'complete' the game - part of that is getting the best of everything. Plus just because it isn't your favourite thing doesn't mean you won't do it from time to time anyway, but there is a difference between doing it once in a while with friends and being forced to grind it for hours to have any hope of affording stuff when in all reality all aspects of the game ought to be giving similar profitability.

^ and that's only if you define 'most dedicated' as happy to grind of hours at non-boss pvm based money making and/or do general pvm and/or merch regardless of their enjoyment of it. Really its less to do with with dedication - there's plenty with that - and more to do with what you enjoy in the game.

I've not had any lag with this at all, bol I had to turn graphics down a bit but it was lag free then too.

I'm gonna laugh if by the end of this the sara camp is utterly gone and Zammy is still perfectly intact, cause so far, quite predictably due to placement, Sara has been 50% stripped whilst Zammy is untouched.

Well you do already have to of at least visited all the bosses for the music reqs, killed a significant number of QBDs for the journals, beat the fight caves and fight kiln and not only beat Vorago but be the one to do the killing blow. So its not like the cape is lacking in pvm reqs thus far. Killing blow is a lot less difficult than you think it is. It has nothing to do with doing the most damage. Vorago can ONLY be killed by using the maul of omens (at various stages of the fight, when you complete the stage, he drops 1 of the 3 pieces of the maul) on him. The last part of the fight is a damage race-- you are on a long bridge and as he damages you, he knocks you backwards. As you damage him, you push him back. When you get him to the end of the bridge, the person with the maul of omens in their inv receives a "Finish him" left click option on Vorago which ends the battle. Your team just decides ahead of time who wants to do the maul, and you have that person collect the pieces throughout the fight and then assemble it at the end and kill him. I know how Vorago works, it doesn't alter the fact for the req you don't just have to kill him you have to be the one to do the killing blow, which adds an extra layer of difficulty to it. I never thought there was anything to do with most damage involved, don't just assume random facts I have said nothing about.

Well you do already have to of at least visited all the bosses for the music reqs, killed a significant number of QBDs for the journals, beat the fight caves and fight kiln and not only beat Vorago but be the one to do the killing blow. So its not like the cape is lacking in pvm reqs thus far.