Powerfrog

Hey guys i just did two 30 minute trips at waterfiends because i wanted charms... But mainly because i wanted to see what would win, maul or rapier. Now everyone seems to think that maul spams 2000s and rapier can't hit once ever, this is not true at all. Stats: 84 attack 99 strength 78 prayer. Using piety and protect from range at all times on both trips. Using full void and other stuff you'll see in the vid, the only difference is the weapon (and d defender with rapier ofc) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9yUqcCjwVU *Chaotic maul* 30 minutes = 60 crimson 2 gold 4 green 2 blues *Chaotic rapier* 30 minutes = 59 crimson 4 green 3 gold So close!!! And this is only with 84 attack and supers... If i had 99 attack and extremes rapier would most likely beat the maul by quite a lot. I know that one 30 minute trip isn't a lot of evidence but i quite like killing waterfiends for some reason, and i want to get a lot more charms... So i think i'll be doing this a lot more and i'm going to log each trip. Both seem very close so i've got nothing to lose by using both of them really. I will be updating this thread every 2 trips i do, alternating with maul and rapier until i have some accurate figures on which is better. I will be leveling attack while doing this so rapier might start overtaking maul... (I may do 6 trips in 1 day, i may do 0 in a week. I'm just gonna do them when i feel like it.) If you have high attack and extremes i highly recommend you try rapier on your next waterfiend trip. You may be suprised with the results. ;)

Dude, if it was that easy they would've done it, lmao. Now, i can't say exactly how they code, but i can assume that there are several points in the game where it checks to see if you have a certain item. Like quests, you need certain items to make an item, get through a door etc etc. Now, you don't just change the list of item id's you also have to change any bit of code that checks for items. For example, a quest requires that you have a bucket of milk, an egg and flour before continuing. It'll read all the id's in your inventory and check to see if those 3 id's are in there. if you changed the id's with those 3 items without updating the check list for that bit of the quest it wont ever register those items. You know, I could be wrong. They might have a different system, but this is just how I see it. 1) why should they spend money to lose more money 2)that's less time spent on good content, people will complain about new randoms, a bot developer could make a script to get through a random faster then it did for the random to be created 3)Do you even realize how many reports they must get daily? it would take a great deal of people to sift through every report, which is just more money wasted when their automated system does a 'decent' enough job. You have a valid point about quests and other things confusing items, but once these have been changed and accounted for all into the random number generator then it would be the same forever, so they would only have to put a few days work into it once, and then the system is ready forever. The only reason they don't do it is because they like bot money and know that legit players and just gonna deal with it, very few actually quit so they don't care how annoyed we get. 1). They *should* do it to improve the game for their players, but they won't. 2). As i said the randoms should be short but efficient, all they'd have to do is teleport the user to an already built location and not allow them to do anything other than answer a question or read a captcha. (This is a 10 minute job for 1 man) 3). This is why they should stop being cheap asses and actually hire some dedicated staff to read reports. It's rediculous that they'll just ignore some reports and take action on others. It's even more rediculous that you, a paying customer, are defending them to do this instead of spending some of their massive profits improving the game.

I would definatley recommend potted fire surge. The extreme pot will increase your damage by a further 21% (when fully potted) and make the task go even faster. Unless you don't want to waste extremes, in which case firewave is perfectly acceptable.

You have no idea how coding works. It seems like an easy thing to do, but it isn't. I'm a programmer. I create c#/c++ software and actionscript games for a living, i have some java experience although i admit i'm no expert. Putting a list of all the items/NPCs, assigning them random ID numbers and copy pasting it back into the game would take seconds. You have no idea how coding works. It seems like an easy thing to do because it is an easy thing to do. Besides, this is just one of many easy things jagex could do to prevent bots that they don't. 1). They have more than enough money to hire a team of dedicated bot finding jmods (I'm sure pmods would do it for free) to just bot bust all day. But no, it's like a annual occurance instead, because it's a publicity stunt. 2). They could simply create a new random every week and replace old ones, it doesn't have to be clever or original, it just has to be effective. This would hinder bots for a while and those that bot regardless would be caught in the random and banned after a while. 3). They could actaully listen to reports instead of ignoring 90% of them >.> Those are pointless though as the first point is so easy and effective, but those are just some other things that are easy to do that they refuse to do that just came from the top of my head. Now tell me jagex are actually putting effort into stopping bots.

Bots are never going to be dealt with for a two key reasons: 1). You're obviously contempt with putting up with them. The occasional one or two people quit, but no big deal to jagex. If everyone quit at once they'd be scared into doing something. 2). Membership fees and ad views from bots are just as good as regular players. Jagex will happily take this money and wouldn't dream of ruining their income for 'fairness'. The only way jagex are ever going to deal with bots is if they start becoming less profitable to the company or more legit players start boycotting the game because of it. But neither of those are going to happen because money is money and you're too addicted to quit. inb4amgnottruemyfriendwasbanned Of course the occasional bot gets banned to keep the PR up and look like they're trying, when in reality it would be fairly simple to take out most or all bots. (Swap ID values every few hours, this would mess up all current bots and wouldn't effect regular players other than tiny 20 second updates every few hours)

Sure they can. Every time you move the mouse even the slightest amount, it sends data to the computer to let it know where to position the mouse on screen, and what to interact with. This data can easily be picked up with Java, and Jagex does use something like this to track bots, although all but the most basic have a large area of random spots to click to throw off a detection program. Runescape does not have this. It would require constant uploading of data just for moving the mouse and it's completely unessesary. As you rightly say many bots click random locations on items, mainly due to paranoid users as this really isn't an issue.

I'm a programmer and know a little java. I'm no expert but i do know what is and isn't possible. Ignoring everything said in the past few pages and focusing on the topic of the thread: The whole system relies on player reports, kids are always going to ask if you're a bot and if you honestly can't take one second to type 'no' then why are you wasting your obviously precious time playing runescape in the first place?

I find it pretty ironic how you say i lack logic and reason when i have soley used logic and fact while you have used nothing but opinionated bias. As for reason, you've blatantly ignored everything i've said and keep living in the dream world where runescape isn't run by player reports and jagex actually have a bot detection system at all. You're worse than a religious nut. Funfact: Bots pay membership fees and register as viewing ads just like any other player, jagex needs them to survive as a business, they'll never take serious action against them unless it would lead to more legitimate players and they were sure of it. It's possible to put any break system you'd like into most modern bots. Meaning that you could giv eit an 8 hour break every day and occasional random 1-2 hour breaks throughout, so it looks just like the average no lifer. Autoclickers don't get banned because jagex know where they click, they get banned because they're so easy to spot or prone to making a mistake. (Most autoclick high alchers get away with it) It isn't possible to make 2 items that look different with the same ID. That's kind of the point of having IDs. It would take literally 1 minute a day for jagex to scramble the IDs in the game every couple hours and this would shut down all current bots for hours until the developer noticed the problem, solved it and uploaded the new version of the bot. This would stop bots from running for longer than a few hours and would stop many people from botting at all as they would get sick of all the updating and waiting they'd have to do. The fact this has never been done shows that jagex approve of bots, sad but true.

On the contrary, you're the one that appears to over-estimate jagex's bot detection systems. All i stated is that if a bot hunter thinks you are a bot and you do not reply to them, of course they're going to report you and assume you are one. It isn't your fault if you're not a bot, you act in the exact same way as one so it's only logical. Now. Mouse detection: Pffffahahahaha. No. They can not see how you move your mouse or even in what location of an item you click, (it's phsyically impossible in java unless they make each pixel of said item a different indivdual item, but that would eat up so many resources it's impractical and wouldn't fool a bot anyway as it could be coded to choose one of the pixel items at random, thus fooling the hours of work per item with a copy paste and 1 line of code). The only thing they *CAN* see is that you clicked something and when you did so. (There are videos of people using a fletching glitch getting over 3m xp an hour with insane inhuman speeds and none of those are banned, so i doubt they even do this.) Injection: As you say, most bots do not use this so it's irrelevant. Fake objects: Bots are designed to interact with what they're told to, they wouldn't 'go rogue' and click some object they were not programmed to just because it exists. Admiting to botting: Unless you admit in the game or on runescape forums, they do not have legitimate proof that it is the real account owner posting and thus can't do anything. Inhuman playtime: Yep. Most botters use a break system or simply break themselves and don't bot 24/7. It's common sense and very easy to avoid. I've coloured in the facts or important parts as you seem to ignore them and accuse me of errors (Without actually pointing them out, cute.) Jagex are too cheap to implement an actual bot detection system or hire staff to do some serious dedicated bot busting (Probably because they live off the bot's membership fees and ad views, and as a business this would be a terrible move for them despite some good PR for a while.) and thus they depend almost entirely on player reports. The things that are done by the annoying kids following you around with your public chat off. As for the bet. I said imaginary bet. If he was serious about his statment he would say something actually doable such as 20m, but no, he said $1,000,000 with no intention of backing it up. Sign of weakness.

For raw power in 1 hit; BGS is actually the best choice for someone without a chaotic maul. Let me explain. Dragon claw special-Dragon claw special-BGS hit. All this would take 7.2 seconds. You use BGS because it is the cheapest godsword and they all have the same stats. You hit with BGS after the claw specials because this means that it only has the delay of 2.4 seconds instead of like the godsword which is 3.6 seconds. With that said, very few people duel with specials and 2 handed weapons allowed. And if it was for serious money i think a VLS and a dragon defender/elysian spirit shield switch would be more effective than dragon claws. Dragon claws are excellent for PVP in the wilderness as you can quite easily kill someone from full hp to 0 in only 2 special attacks, but be careful you don't die and lose your claws. Dragon claws are often used for bossing or general training with a rapier as dragon dagger doesn't beat the rapier with raw DPS on most enemies with high defense, but the claws beat it by quite a lot for the 2 specials and are useful for instant healing when used with soul split.

Edgeville bank is probably the most botted furnace in p2p, perhaps with the exception of al kharid for bots without the quest requirments for edgeville. Of course botters care about efficiency, they're run by humans and even though it requires no extra effort from them, they still want things done as fast as possible so they can move onto botting another skill or selling the account. As for an anti-bot measure(For that furnace) i just find that humorous. Any decent bot can right click or find the right location to click way faster than a human can and doesn't get annoyed or slowed down by having to do so.

Most people who play with public off talk in clan chats. You're just another one of those people who assume everyone hates training skills as much as you do and can't stand doing the same activity over and over again. Basically, you're another one of those annoying people who assume everyone bots skills you hate so you report them when they don't answer you because you have some thought in your head that if you speak to them they must speak back to you for you are the single most important thing to them. It's in my rights to play the game as it was designed to play (even though grinding skills is a horrible design) without being accused of botting. If a skill was designed so that you run from alter to bank and back for hours then I will do that if you don't enjoy it fine but if I do enjoy training skills that doesn't mean I'm botting. Also, back when natures were at their prime they made well over 1m per hour and still new pvm beats that. And you seem to forget that the same thing applies to pvm. Less people doing pvm = higher prices of rewards. How does them lowering because the amount of people doing pvm make any sense at all. Lower supply = higher prices even with a slightly lower demand. I'm just going to assume you never really played back when skilling was the most profitable because if you had you'd know that when all the skills were at their prime the new pvm methods still make the most money and the ways to obtain maximum profit with skilling hasn't changed (in terms of new methods). I can't imagine natures going back to 400+ gp even without bots simply because of the newer, faster ways to train magic. When they were at their highest it was because they were simply the best thing to use for training. If anything they'll maybe hit 250 because of the uninformed people who don't realize alcing is one of the slower methods of training. Mining anything but rune was never a good way to make money ,and still has no reason why it would be, and the profit/hour of mining rune hasn't really changed. TLDR slightly better profit =/= best profit and new ways to make the best money with skills haven't been added. Sure no bots would make skills much better profit/hour but it is in no way incorrect to say that pvm will still beat skilling based on past profit/hour of the best skills with methods that have not changed. Show me a skill that has potential of realistically ever making 2m+ per hour and I'll admit it would beat some pvm. Seriously, no bots would still not make skilling the most profitable. You will still be able to make 2m+/hour easily with pvm and skilling would more than likely max out at 1m/hour. For the sole reason that the only skills that would still be likely to still make good profit are runecrafting and mining. Due to the fact that natures are not the best rune for training and rune ore prices haven't changed drastically they won't ever reach the point that they used to be. Even though as far back as I can remember the highest nature crafting ever was was about 1.4m/hour. Really the only reason I think people still train with alcing is because it's cheap, as soon as natures reach the point that stringing amulets/hunter kits/plank make cost the same they'll stop rising. Also, you're not very bright for taking my bet seriously for this long. Did you really ever think I was serious about betting anything? But of course you would never admit to such stupidity. If you have chat off and someone thinks you're a bot and then asks 'Are you a bot?' and you do not reply, of course they're going to report you. And of course jagex are going to assume you're a bot. Do it at your own risk is what i say. Now if you're talking in your clan or pm the whole time then perhaps jagex can see this and will know you not to be a bot, but i doubt they look that far into it. I'm not even going to read your crap about prices as you're wrong. If there were zero bots the prices of items would be: How fun it is to do ~ More fun = less profit Level requirments to do it ~ Higher requirments = more profit How fun those requirments are to get ~ More fun = less profit How well known the method is ~ More popularity = less profit How useful to other things the item you get is ~ More usefull = more profit That's it. Nothing more. Nothing less. Of course prices would still flactuate and even out as everyone would do the best method, then the 2nd, then 3rd right until the original 1st is back on top. Of course i knew you'd never pay me and that i couldn't prove the statement at all. It's a sign of weakness when you post clearly imaginary bets though.

If someone doesn't reply to you asking if they are a bot then it's in your rights to report them as a bot. They may have public chat off for other reasons, but the bot hunting guy doesn't know that, and jagex will probably assume it's because you're a bot as they have no other ways of telling. That's alright though, just reassure jagex that you were in fact not botting, you had public chat off simply because you didn't want to talk to anyone as you were having so much fun doing the same mind numbing walk to the altar and back. Oh wait, they don't read your appeal and if they did they would put it with the other 99% that claim they don't bot. I can't prove how many members in this thread bot at the time our deal was made, but you can't and more importantly won't pay the fees either way so i'm not going to waste my time trying. As for your pvm statement, that's just plainly incorrect. I do not support these 'botters help the economy!' threads, but in this case it's true. PVM is greatly prefered over skilling by most runescape players for fun. This means that if there were no bots to do skills such as mining, the low amount of people willing to mine would make ores and bars prices shoot up. Making mining slightly better profit. The same applies for every skill which provides something useful to combat. Of course in the end it would begin to equal out as more people would be willing to mine as the profits were high, lowering them slightly, but PVM gained items would be relativley low value compared to the less fun tasks that fewer people are willing to do such as fish and cook the fish. Really all bots do is make unbottable tasks such as high risk pvm way more profitable than they would if there were no bots(relative to other methods), its up to you to decide if thats good or bad for the economy of runescape.

You have terrible logic. If I was botting this would not annoy me because I wouldn't even see it... So please bet me $1,000,000 I always enjoy winning bets. Just because it may bring you great pleasure to counter an annoying person by being an annoying troll doesn't mean everyone does. And how would someone following a bot saying "bot" even interrupt botting? Do you even think before you spew out stupidity or do you just type without thinking? You have absolutely no reason to think any of us are botting but I guess that doesn't matter because you don't seem to think anyway.. Well first of all, you sure are getting mighty defenseive about it. I didn't even accuse you personally. For your bet, i only have to be right about the majority (50% or more), and it's a well known fact the majority of runescape players use bots at some point in their life. So yes, i'll call your $1,000,000 bet. I doubt you're capable of paying that though, so i'll just accept 2b in game instead. :) Secondly, a botter would be annoyed by it as when they are not watching their bot, if someone asks them if they're a bot they can not reply. Thus they will be reported and hopefully banned. By interupting i also mean they will be banned. (Try botting on a banned account.) You're the one with terrible logic. People are activley hunting the people that make the skill you're training less profitable for you, and you hate them for it. Seeing from your recent posts that may just be because you're an angry and hateful person. And that's just unfortunate.

Yeah i was recently hacked for 90m (my bank.) but they ignored my chaotics, effigies, void, firecapes... All my untradables. They even left my imbued berserker ring, i'm guessing that was because they're too stupid to unimbue it instead of being kind, though. (They also left 3m MOB points and 700 slayer points, worth a total of about 6m if they were exchanged for items, again, i'm assuming stupidity over kindness) If they took my chaotics i probably would have quit that account for good and focused on my zerker, but they didn't, so i won't!

I'd bet anything that the majority of you use bots. Replying with 'no' does not take effort, especially when rune crafting. The only reason to be upset by this is if it interupts your botting. I can understand the hatred of annoying people that follow you all day saying you're a bot. I often just troll them which 1). Proves i'm not a bot 2). Annoys them 3). Brings me great pleasure and spices up training whatever boring skill i'm doing that is so easy and repetitive a robot can do it.

The RS development team have their fingers in many pixelated pies. If Jagex stopped updating the game and did nothing but fight bots all day (which they'd have to in order to keep up with all the throwaway farming accounts made every other second) then people would quit because nothing new would ever be added. Or they could stop being greedy and hire some additional staff dedicated to stopping bots with the millions of profit they make. But oh wait, bots pay for membership and thus are a large part of the profit in the first place, so that wouldn't be the best move as an organization. Never mind jagex, just keep milking the money, we'll cope with the bots like we always have and always will.

I've been hearing this rumour a lot lately, too. I'd like to see it confirmed or denied.

Huh. I forgot about that quest... I have the fair majority of the pre quests and all of the skills needed, i think i might just do this for the prayer experience before i waste all my money on turmoil :P Thanks for bringing this up and reminding me, lol. (It's a shame you can't use it on summoning xp instead)

I don't find them worth picking up, even when using multi tokens and they're 2 at a time and noted, but they are rather good for prayer training. Sure, they're slow. But at 52xp on a gilded altar for 320 coins they cost less than half what dbones do, so if you don't mind the monotony of spending over 100 hours using bones on your altar, it's a great cheap way to get turmoil.

PvP or bossing depending on your combat level. If you find yourself bored with runescape then the obvious answer is to add a thrill or challenge into your gameplay. Even if you're usually one of those soppy skillers or slayers only, go buy some cheap gear and give pvp a try. You may fail at first but you'll find it an enjoyable experience as long as you don't risk more than you can afford to lose. By pvp i of course mean in the wilderness, risking your gear with the chance of getting your opponents gear is a thrilling experience, and once you get good at it, it can become very profitable. By bossing i mean things such as killing bosses you've never tried before (kbd < dagganoth kings < bandos < arma < corp < nex) depending on combat level and skill, these are all very fun to solo or kill in small teams. This can be incredibly profitable with a little luck and a great way to make friendships if you do small teams. I just noticed your dungeoneering level is low. You may find leveling that with freinds to be a fun experience and it can be very rewarding when you have access to chaotics and other rewards.

not really necisary, as the mining/smithing combo should knock out most of mage, with ice wyrms+low alching while wcing to take care of the rest. I hear that quite often. Low alching? Why low alching? You do realise high alching also works in the exact same way, and that's exactly what i was suggesting, right?

How did you get 1354 posts without getting banned? The real question is, how is he still alive with that type of mindset? He's hooked up to a life preservation machine (typical botter :rolleyes: ) On topic, get buyables like construction, prayer and herblore asap if money really isn't an issue. These don't require any other skills to train (Construction before prayer so you can use gilded altar) and having 99 prayer and herblore will help a lot while doing anything combat related. I'd actually recommend getting at least 50 in each combat style before training slayer as it can be difficult and time consuming to get an unfavorable task on a level 3. Get these stats on something such as rock crabs or experiements. From there on out you should train melee and some range soley from slayer though. You can take a break from slayer when you're about 80 in each melee stat to do some dungeoneering to get a rapier which will speed up experience gain quite a lot. Pick up all types of charms during slayer as you'll never be able to gain crimson charms at such a rate that collecitng and using them is more experience than simply using the gold charms you get, so for max efficiency (and less effort overall) it's best to use all charms. You should 'combat alch' or alch when doing something else such as fishing or woodcutting to maximise experience gain. If you time it correctly you can alch without it interrupting your combat or other skill experience at all. (In fact for fishing you can alch the fish meaning fewer to be dropped, meaning slightly faster fishing experience overall) That's all i feel like writing for now, good luck with this goal.

With their current price that means more people will be training herblore with them, which means that there will be more on the market, which will make them harder to sell and crash. BXPW is just going to push this regular formula to new extremes as many people will be training herblore and relativley few will be doing much combat that requires vast amounts of prayer potions.

I played on my friends computer once last week and i got hacked for the first time in my runescape life (5+ years) They took my 90m bank but kindly ignored my imbued berserker ring, full void, 20 effigies, rapier, maul, arcane, and a bunch of other untradables such as KBD heads. (It wasn't the friend, i checked the IP when i got it back and it was a well known proxy and he has no idea about stuff like that, he feels so guilty about it he's going to give me 100m from his own bank after he finishes his current flip.) Only idiots get hacked. If you don't share your password, sign into obvious phish sites or download obvious keyloggers then you will not be 'hacked'.