Danqazmlp

Imagine the brutality of undertaker level attack spells :ohnoes:

There is a difference- a noob makes armor in dungeoneering because they haven't realized it's useless yet. A scrub makes armor in dungeoneering because damn it they want to and no efficiency nerd is going to tell them what to do no matter how many "facts" they throw at them. *newb Even in dungeoneering there is no imposed goal or aim. In a fighting game, there is win or lose, nothing else. In runescape, there is a lot more, even in dungeoneering, a player does not have to go 100% to the best exp, they can do what they want. A scrub is somebody who would be trying to attain one thing yet would not listen to the best way to do it. What you describe is not that, what you describe is somebody playing the game in a different way from you. Runescape is too diverse to simply label people in one way.

In a fighting game which he is talking about there is 1 goal, 1 aim, to win. Thinking anything other, as he says, is limiting. That is the aim of that game. Runescape and most MMO's on the other hand do not have that. They are built on freedom to do what you want without aims. Because of this, you are free to play however you want with whatever mentality you find most fun. There is no outright winning or losing, only your own personal enjoyment.

Yes, let's compare a 1v1 fighting game with an MMO with 20+ different skills, various PVM, PVP and non combat aspects. That comparison will work well :rolleyes: They cannot be accurately compared because the reasons for playing them are often very different, especially at the level this guy seems to want to talk about.

I didn't think CW was released so early. I had been playing a few months prior to it's release which means I must have missed classic by only a few months.

I can't wait for various pkers who quit when pking was removed to come crying after the update has happened that the new armour/weapons of the last few years have made pking rubbish now and that they are re-quitting. It is inevitable. It isn't just the loot that has changed in modern Pking.

Do you think this will finaly bring people back to Pking as a major part of their game? Will it bring more activity once again to the graveyard? What other effects could it have around here?

Congratz

They didn't prove to us botting was a problem nor have they proved that they can't limit bots. Seeing bots is not what this update is about, it's their impact, and i have not seen proof of yew botting directly changing the game in any special way. If the bots don't make an impact, they have little reason to make them a priority, meanwhile, they are still keeping up their policy of mostly banning money buyers. The other thing, as we know, is that we really need to look at ourselves. If we don't use our money to get an advantage in game, rwt will certainly not increase. I have yet to see any huge rwt protest by those worrying about the increasing amount of rwt-ing they expect this update to deliver. They didn't need to prove it, we could see it with our own eyes. We could see how many bots there were, which means when they said RWT was a problem, it was easy to believe. Now though, we have nothing to show they can deal with it as bots have been increasing. For all current purposes, botting = RWT. The bots that will use free trade are those wanting to RWT.

Increase? And? Oh thats right. I forgot that the game can survive perfectly fine when X% of the players are bots. But when free trade comes back, the population will reach its critical ammount of X+5% of bots and an abyssal portal will open up and swallow the Runescape servers for all of eternity. I almost forgot about that. Did I ever say it would collapse? Please, don't put words in my mouth. Runescape is currently full of bots which for many players spoils the game. Why would anybody want to bring more into the game? I think it is a viable opinion to not want an update which will bring more bots and gold farmers into the game.

But why did you trust jagex when they said the removal of free trade was necessary 3 years ago, but totally dismiss their claims now? Sure, rwt will increase, but if they've added extra detection for rwt, free trade will allow for MUCH easier detection of free money transfer(currently all trades are ''balanced''). Additionally they may have done some research into how to keep people away from the game if they get banned for continuous botting- we can't just factually claim rwt/botting will run rampant, but it's lilkely it will increase slightly. For all the trouble with bots, the amount of high level content that will be released is HUGE(pking, staking and trading expensive items). As I have said, at the time, we could all see how abundant botting was. It was common knowledge that the yews behind Varrock castle were full of bots, 24/7 on all worlds. We could all see the amount of bots and that they could be crippling the game. When Jagex said about how bad it was for them, we all had some sort of experience with the amount of botters to somewhat back up their claim. Now however, they have given us no proof that they can limit bots. On the contrary, the number of bots has been increasing for the last few years. It gives nobody any reason to believe them this time.

Please don't throw us down this avenue again. We had a 20 page thread explaining why bots were a bad thing if you want to go back to it. Botting may be big at the moment, but some forms are limited. I can guarantee that botting will increase. Currently, there may be ways to transfer, but it is limited and not widespread knowledge. Once we get back to a trade system allowing anybody, even without knowledge to RWT, it will increase.

It's not that one will replace the other, it's that now we will have both. Jagex have not shown us that they can deal with the bots now, how could they possibly deal with more bots when this update goes through? Judging by what they said they just had a breakthrough in the last month or so with bot technology. I understand people not wanting to read what they say though considering they're too busy worrying about how terrible runescape is going to become. Or it would be based on knowing that Jagex's word in the past has been far from reliable in terms of bots?

It's not that one will replace the other, it's that now we will have both. Jagex have not shown us that they can deal with the bots now, how could they possibly deal with more bots when this update goes through?

I'm not sure Will. I would assume that with pkers usually having numerous pures and secondaries, there would be larger number of players wanting yes with numerous accounts than those wanting no. To me though, it doesn't matter which side people vote as long as they do it legitimately. Just don't try to skew the votes. 1 person wants to vote yes, 1 person votes yes once. If not, we may as well go back to phase 1.

Because it is a vote to see how many people want free trade back. You're not 6 people so don't vote 6 times. If you think your side has such a large percentage, is there any need to cheat?

I'm still unhappy that people still feel the need to rig the votes voting on various accounts. If you think your side has so much chance, vote on your main account. It does disgust me just how much the Rs community is willing to cheat in what is a measure of good faith by Jagex. I have been swayed in this thread, and I have voted that I'm not bothered. I am unsure as to whether they can realistically detect the bots, but if they can, good to them. Mainly, I am just offput by the Communities willingness to cheat. That's the main reason for me being unwilling to vote yes. I don't want to be part of the scum (yes, I find people who cheat in votes like this as scum)

Uh, we didn't stand as a whole against Jagex back in Dec '07. We were really divided back then, moreso than now, and the people who agreed with Jagex were probably in the majority, or at least they were making the more reasoned arguments. This time, there's no debate, only one condition; If Jagex can fight the horde of cheaters in full 'free trade' swing, bring back free trade. If they can't, don't. It's a big bet, but I'm for it. That is pretty much the deciding factor. Can we put our trust in them to be able to implement it right, or are they caving to the pressure? read my previous post (5 posts above) Back then, the reason was one which we could all see. Bots were abundant showing us how abundant RWT was. We could see how widespread it was and that it would obviously have an effect on the company. Now however, they say they can get rid of these. It would be believable if the game wasn't currently full of bots and RWT already. Before we could see with our own eyes the reasoning, but now there is no proof otherwise. They claim they can stop it, but if they could, why haven't they already? It is hard to put faith in them for that reason. It is not worth changing if we will end up back as square 1 and have to change back 6 months down the line.

Uh, we didn't stand as a whole against Jagex back in Dec '07. We were really divided back then, moreso than now, and the people who agreed with Jagex were probably in the majority, or at least they were making the more reasoned arguments. This time, there's no debate, only one condition; If Jagex can fight the horde of cheaters in full 'free trade' swing, bring back free trade. If they can't, don't. It's a big bet, but I'm for it. That is pretty much the deciding factor. Can we put our trust in them to be able to implement it right, or are they caving to the pressure?

1 year plus would be useless. If there was a real vote it'd only make sense if people who REALLY used those features and know what they were about could vote- set the limit at account created before 1. january 2007. Right now, most of the people voting no just didn't know what those features were about, thus there are reasons the current voting system makes sense. It is not a strict vote to determine the next prime minister, rather a popularity vote to see how many people find the page and put their name in the hat to support the idea, and if there is alot of buzz around the idea(as we can all see there is) the vote is a success. And all those voting yes REALLY used those features? Please. That is no argument as there are probably just as many voting no who never used them as there are voting yes.

Why do people think the only reason people oppose it is due to them being some form of cry baby not wanting to die in the wilderness? Have your wilderness back for all I care. The wilderness is the small fish in this update. The true update is the impact it will have on the wider game. The economy will be in turmoil for months, we will have huge bugs, we will probably have months upon months of updates, delaying good worthwhile content, which are there to re-balance what has been unbalanced by this update, we will also be once again inundated with level 3 bots once more. You say those opposing it are being selfish? Look at yourselves in the mirror. You are the ones changing something because you want it changed. I'm also getting annoyed with how people think the game was good back then. Reality check. The game had major problems back with free trade. It won't bring balance to skills, those were ruined with skill capes, it won't bring balance to PVP, that has been ruined with high level gear. You won't be able to train any skill as not only will we have the skilling bots of the present, we will have the RWT bots of the past coming back in full force. Stop looking at the past as if it was some Mecca for gaming. You have to wonder if any of those who are voting for even played back then or wether they have been brainwashed into thinking the game was perfect by those who won't let go of the past. Think of the wider consequences, stop just thinking 'I want pking back it was better than now!'.

25% is roughly 318k votes. That is in almost 2 days. In no way shape or form could the naysayers come close to that. I would suggest the people against this go ahead and make your plans on what your going to do, as did the pk'ers/people that liked free trade did in 2007. And please tell me how you know that in no way shape or form could naysayers come close to that? From the poll at the top of this very forum, only around 60% are for the update.

Very true, but how many rants are we going to get from players who hoarded junk or traded for large amounts of it just before the update is done or is announced?

It isn't just the wilderness that is being voted on. It's free trade as well. Even then, we don't know the extent of the back-track we are voting for. You say it wouldn't harm us if the wilderness came back, but how about those who want to go into the wilderness? The game has changed and many people use the wilderness for activities seperate from Pking. Just because you don't PK doesn't mean it wouldn't effect you. For me personally, the main part I don't want which would come of the update would be the unstability of the game for another few years and the massive instability of the economy in the months following the update. It took Jagex years to stabilise the game after taking free trade out, I don't doubt it would take as long to reverse it. This would mean losing out on updates such as quests.

A majority over what? Oh, the majority over those 0 votes for no because they aren't allowed to be cast? Thats 25% would be if it reaches something like 2 million. I wouldn't expect more than 1 million legitimate votes realistically, 500k would probably be the rough amount I would expect. You have to remember how many people would vote no, how many people wouldn't see it so wouldn't vote at all and then how large the active player base is. The counter could probably go to 10m+ if people carry on running their scripts, however it would in no way be a realistic view.