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It's extremely hard to tell nowadays, but there are some important goal lines by which we can judge it. One of the oldest and first of them must be the introduction of members, which was some time in 2002(not entirely sure). Another is that the person has atleast played rsc while it was the main game and has ears/scythe(2003). Another one is the release of rs2 in 2004 and the introduction of slayer at the start of 2005. For me, having started in june, 2003, i wouldn't class anyone that started to play after the release of slayer oldschool, but it differs alot. Another point about parthats is that a large quantity of the ones we have left today(split between rsc and rs2) are not from the original xmas event- during the dupe jagex was able to trace and delete duped crackers but not hats that resulted from opening those crackers.

Now you are just being silly. Just because you don't merchant doesn't mean money is harder to get nowadays- for any decent merchant-skiller, money is worthless. Also, you and zarfot seem to constantly think every oldschooler has a load of crackers in their bank. It's not true. First of all, oldschool nowadays doesn't even mean you've played rsc, much less that you were around at the very start of runescape in 2001 and logged in on one specific day- the number of people still playing the game that got cracker drops is VERY low, and the number that got drops and kept them until now is second to none. People didn't know to hoard hats, and over years almost all of them have infiltrated to the open market, one way or the other. Also, as we are talking about the ''efficiency'' list, every hour you spent on rsc counts for around 10 hours(xp nowadays is 5-20 times faster), so there is no way a true oldschool player could be anywhere near the top of the list.

Would you bother to mention your playtime(i know it's a very personal request, so no worries if you don't want to)? I'd be interested where i'd be on that list in relation to you(as i'd likely be somewhere within 100 spots of you). Langer, the oldschool disadvantage isn't just because of the ge and choice of what skills to train, rather that all(and i think this is very accurate) skills have gotten far easier in the last 3-4 years. The easiest way to look at it is people who trained combat in rsc(at roughly 30k total xp an hour) vs someone training slayer today(something like 300-400k total xp an hour). The list doesn't take any of this in account.

It's actually easy to see why zarfot is on the top of that list- he is a newschool player(major advantage), doesn't pk regularly, is among the top of total xp(the only hard thing about the list is getting all 99s, after that you can train as many easy skills as you want) and knows how to/wants to merchant(as most costly skills are fast). And i wasn't detesting the point of that table or anything like that, rather referring to the need for people to label everything efficiency. That table doesn't directly show efficiency, thus should not be named along those lines.

That mod really needs to learn something about efficiency. Someone who starts an account today and gets 200m cooking xp in a month could be on the top of that least while it would mean nothing. Other than that, nice list- pk-ers at the bottom, skillers at the top.

Because they were still doing it on a trial basis and wasn't sure if it was going to be a success and to keep the cheaters guessing. White lies? sounds like something a widely professional programming company would do :lol:

Are we surprised? i think most of us are passing judgment on jagex'es lack of judgment. The more honest players they lose, the worse they will be in the long run, and this new regime really ****s in the face of those players(quite the attitude of: You can steal anything, but if you get caught doing so, you'll have to pay for the stuff you steal(but no other penalties)). Even by taking away some xp earned by legit ways, those accounts would never turn legit just because of that. Ban them forever and be done with it, that is, if you are thinking about the future.

second that. Those posts are, afterall, official statements from jagex, no matter where they posted them(obviously they should post them on public forums but they can't because they'll get murdered for it).

Errm, how exactly is a slight xp loss harsher than a permanent ban? anything? yeah... In any case, as they said they will not be removing xp from accounts that haven't botted, this is a prime example of them actually wanting people to bot in order to get xp removed. I, for one, would be really glad if they took away 20 something mil of my defense xp and i could be maxed with all quests done at a much lower level...

Yet again, how could you factually prove something like this? Would jagex ever admit do it? If so, why? Looking for facts on this subject is the single stupidest thing to do. This is jagex'es dirty laundry, and they will do anything to hide it, but from a logical standpoint, it's clear to see why jagex would prefer stat resetting to permanent bans(or bans in general) for major offenses.

I think the result is better than wasting a fortune on zammy brews, also considering you'll need tons of them. I think the easiest way would be to eat above drags melee max with food/uni/candy and flip melee prayer allowing them to hit you once, the problem being fast flicking and high melee max hit of the dragons(the lower it is the better).

You can't really discuss this topic based on facts as jagex would never go on the record as saying that they are doing this just to get money, because, frankly, it doesn't them any good, and they've never been an honest and trustworthy company, at ease with taking criticism. Thus, all we can do is speculate on the facts that we do have- they used to be very strict with banning people and even changed most of the game to get rid of bots(though, even then, the major reasoning was credit card theft in order to pay for autoing accounts), but after suffering MAJOR losses in the aftermath of the update they have developed a more lenient manner against botting, first removing capital punishment(perm ban) and making bans much, much more lenient, up to now when people don't even get banned for botting, thus remaining their membership intact. From that information it's easy to deduce that as their business model suffered major losses while getting rid of botting, they are not prepared to do it again and are just raking the profit they get from it.

It's my style, always has been, always will be, and as i'm not working on a degree in anything literature related, it doesn't really matter.

Aasi, I haven't once and will not go into any of the details of speculation on high level players, as, frankly, it's their own business and their own lives, thus i'm just sharing my opinion on the need(need is the good word to describe something you grind trough) to spend a huge chunk of your young(i assume most of the top players are between 20 and 30 years of age) lives trapped(a good example of afking) in front of a computer screen doing things that don't, in any way, help you have a healthy lifestyle, so while it's true that there are 14 more hours in the day, they need to be carefully catered to take care of everything else that you need in life, not to mention, most can't endure such a lifestyle while working or attending university. I don't see a no-lifer as being a fat guy in the basement, rather someone whose life is built around playing a computer game, and most of the decisions they make result from that, and i do understand that it's possible to endure a healthy lifestyle while keeping up such high hours in front of computers, but it's certainly not easy, and more often than not, the part that suffers the most is your social life- and i don't mean one behind a computer screen.

So, what's your mod name? Mod Gullible?

This. shows that neither you know what efficiency is. Doing a big load of calculations is not what it is(and that's really why we have grimy's sheets), rather having a good knowledge of the game and being well informed about new updates, which doesn't really waste any additional time(quite like merchanting). Also, i know very well what it takes to play 10 hours a day for a some-what prolonged period of time(~a month) and it is VERY unlikely that anyone can maintain that pace(or even go up to 18 hours a day) and have a healthy lifestyle both physically and emotionally- effectively, you are wasting your intellectual potential for nothing and weather you like it or not, it's not healthy. Whatever any of the top players may say about why or how they play, you can pretty much be sure they aren't very successful in life as a whole, atleast as long as they play the game.

This. The point i was trying to make, and still am, is that because these top players effectively spend their lives playing the game, normal efficiency doesn't apply to them. Their goals are so wast and playing time they endure makes up most if not a majority of their daily activities that it's inevitable that they are not just playing the game to have fun but are grinding themselves trough skills while doing other things that they enjoy more. They are no-lifers, and because of this, typical efficiency as stated so many times doesn't apply to them. In their own right they are all efficient in squeezing as many hours of a day to play the game and doing methods that result in slight xp loss. Efficiency for a person who has a healthy and balanced lifestyle, playing around 2 hours a day and someone who spends up to 18 hours a day playing the game are two very different things, and as such, we can't apply the normal efficiency to them(or have to apply a high attention/clicking frequency modifier to it).

Viv, that view only works if you assume everyone to have near infinite time to play, which most of us don't. For an average person that can play around two hours a day, being efficient is using that play time to its maximum extent and not using lazy training methods. It is, however, true, that for some people that have a lazy lifestyle and can spend a major part of their day behind a computer would benefit from lazy training methods while doing other things, HOWEVER, such perspective is not efficient gameplay, rather efficient usage of time(assuming you can call nolifing that). For me, personally, because i play the game to relax and have fun, never train any skills afk, for the major reason that i'd be just fooling my self saying i enjoy cutting ivy or fishing rocktails- Nobody really enjoys afking, it's rather a burden they carry.

Different people have different ways of showing strong emotions like love(or even hate :ohnoes: ). You can't really knock him for that.

Firstly, as far as these forums are concerned, that statement is certainly false unless you assume people to have similar goals as you(to get 200m in multiple skills). Secondly, being efficient hasn't got much to do with being a so called 'no-lifer'. You are a 'no-lifer'(as far as i see what's behind the word), which means you spend too much of your life playing the game, but others may not have alot of time to play the game, but the time they do have, they spend wisely, thus being efficient but not so-called high level.

The obvious point is to finish quests without really training the account, get reset and THEN train str, legit or by botting. Resetting str does nothing.

Then the obvious solution is to reset strength to 1. You don't understand what anyone is talking about, do you?

Umm...so is jagex encouraging the legit ones of us to bot in order to not be left to dumps because of quest requirements? just a thought, but they should definitely reconsider their position, or just post a bs-heartfelt letter that they need money more than a game without macros and ****ing give us free trade back? please?

Fire giants can hit 110, and he was unfortunate enough to get hit with a combo of high hits. Or fortunate as he learned a valuable lesson :thumbup:

I think some things that have yet to be mentioned about the hood are... The hood is mostly a tool for rushing dungeons. It is not a great bind if you, for any reason, don't rush dungeons. So yes, even though it's very good, it's not as good as t11 platebody if you want to clear rooms and prefer safety over speed. The usefulness of a hood is more pronounced by the amount of hoods already in existence. If, for example, only the keyer uses a hood, a platebody is almost as good as hood for protection as the damage is divided between 4 people. However, if you are the only person not wearing a hood, you'll take the majority of the damage. Thus, there might be dungeons where using platebodies would be more beneficial for the team, but because people already have hoods bound, a single platebody will be much worse. Also, don't be fooled by the requirements for the hood as most of the requirements for slayer items are just nominal- what you should rather be looking at is the rarity, and it's undeniable that the rarity of t11 platebody is much lower than that of SSH, or any other slayer specific drop.